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Sun Nov 10, 2019, 07:47 PM

Lt. Col. Vindman was ILLEGALLY demoted then fired today. UPDATED

Last edited Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:59 PM - Edit history (1)

IMPORTANT UPDATE
CONFIRMED: Vindman has not lost his position at the NSC. He's detailed there from the Army and current plan is he will go back on July 11, per his lawyer.Kyle Cheney added,





More laws Trump has broken:

15 USC §2087 & 6 USC §625—Whistleblower Protections
5 USC §2302(b)—1989 Whistleblower Protection Act


This is intimidation & meant to send a message for all others who speak out against Trump.


Retaliation against Lt. Col. Vindman started shortly after he reported his concerns with Trump's call to Zelenskyy to the senior White House lawyer, John Eisenberg. Vindman was subsequently excluded from trips to all countries in his portfolio (Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus).







UPDATE:
This is NOT true. Vindman is still at the NSC. He will leave when his detail expires “as scheduled” is what I’m told. I’ve been unable to nail down a date, but he hasn’t been fired. This just shows that misinformation can spread just as fast on the left as on the right

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Reply Lt. Col. Vindman was ILLEGALLY demoted then fired today. UPDATED (Original post)
kpete Sunday OP
democratisphere Sunday #1
NCLefty Sunday #2
H2O Man Sunday #17
politicaljunkie41910 Yesterday #43
Grasswire2 Sunday #3
uponit7771 Sunday #4
Grasswire2 Sunday #5
Fla Dem Yesterday #34
Delphinus Sunday #6
Gothmog Sunday #7
IcyPeas Sunday #15
Maraya1969 Sunday #8
TomSlick Sunday #9
Sherman A1 Sunday #10
OhNo-Really Sunday #12
TomSlick Sunday #14
OhNo-Really Sunday #18
sdfernando Sunday #21
OhNo-Really Sunday #22
sdfernando Sunday #24
OhNo-Really Yesterday #31
Lorenzo LaRue Sunday #27
TomSlick Yesterday #45
shadowmayor Yesterday #39
Maraya1969 Sunday #11
TomSlick Sunday #13
Faux pas Sunday #16
Hermit-The-Prog Sunday #19
Fritz Walter Sunday #20
Frustratedlady Sunday #29
ProfessorPlum Yesterday #37
James48 Sunday #23
onenote Sunday #25
SunSeeker Sunday #26
dewsgirl Sunday #28
Hoyt Sunday #30
ProfessorPlum Yesterday #32
DeminPennswoods Yesterday #33
Pacifist Patriot Yesterday #35
ProfessorPlum Yesterday #38
Pacifist Patriot Yesterday #40
ProfessorPlum 13 hrs ago #46
Pacifist Patriot 11 hrs ago #47
ProfessorPlum 10 hrs ago #49
IronLionZion Yesterday #36
Fritz67 Yesterday #41
Nitram Yesterday #42
politicaljunkie41910 Yesterday #44
Nitram 10 hrs ago #48

Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:02 PM

1. Onward toward Life in Prison for drumpf.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:05 PM

2. Is he officially a "whistleblower," such that the Act applies to him?

They made it sound like the original WB was following a WB process. I'm not sure that applies to everyone else who testified but IANAL.

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Response to NCLefty (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:24 PM

17. Testifying isn't the issue.

He had also put his concerns regarding White House wrong-doing on record with the appropriate person.

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Response to NCLefty (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:36 PM

43. He saw (heard) something inappropriate. He said something to the legal authority in his chain of

command; something that all of us soldiers learn in boot camp. He is now facing retaliation for having done the right thing. This cannot stand. The only person that doesn't understand this is the pussy who evaded the draft and whose daddy paid off some quack doctor to lie and say that he had bone spurs in his feet and couldn't serve his country like all the other people's children who did.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:11 PM

3. witness intimidation nt

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:12 PM

4. +1

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:16 PM

5. and consciousness of guilt. nt

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 09:53 AM

34. This is not true. Not fired. Part of normal rotation.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:19 PM

6. This is SO wrong!

This cannot be allowed to stand.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:43 PM

7. I suspect that there will be a lawsuit on this

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #7)


Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:54 PM

8. I hope the best lawyers in the country are contacting him right now for his suit against

the government.

And I hope this firing is investigated. And whoever is responsible is brought to justice

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:57 PM

9. I seriously doubt that LTC Vandman has been demoted.

With exceptions that do not apply here, officer are not demoted.

He needed to be reassigned. He was certainly cut out of the loop in the WH. He is too valuable an officer to be sitting in a nothing job.

He is a valuable officer and will be found a position that will better utilize his knowledge and experience.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:00 PM

10. Precisely

I’m sure that he has lost no pay or benefits. Being reassigned at this point would likely be a good thing.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:02 PM

12. Agree. Reassigned

And he will attend War College next year

Still he new the risks & took them for you & me, for all Americans, all the people of the world

Colonel Vindman is. National Treasure & Hero

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Response to OhNo-Really (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:09 PM

14. In my experience, the Army appreciates officers who do the right thing in a tough spot.

I'll give odds that he is selected for War College and timely promoted Colonel.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:46 PM

18. He has been accepted to War College

I read that somewhere. Maybe his testimony. I read it cover to cover

My dad was Lt Colonel when he retired from Army Reserves so this feels personal

I imagine many USArmy are taking this personally as well

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Response to OhNo-Really (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:00 PM

21. My Dad too

Retired as a Lt Colonel but was regular Atmy not reserve...and this indeed feels personal.

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Response to sdfernando (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:08 PM

22. It's interesting how this affects

Our emotions. Salute to our decorated dedicated dads! So missed!

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Response to OhNo-Really (Reply #22)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:18 PM

24. Yep...it is strange how it affects us.

Luckily my Dad is still around at 92. VET from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.

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Response to sdfernando (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 12:59 AM

31. So happy for you both

Please thank him for me & record all his stories.

Enjoy this with dad.


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Response to OhNo-Really (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:33 PM

27. War College

....I abhor the thought of studying war, that is such a pathetic waste of time. If we gave half as much thought on how to have a peaceful world, we wouldn't be at each others throats every phkn day. The Military is so overrated and so over subsidized. A trillion+ dollars every year wasted on our Imperialist ways, 700 bases around the world. Just who has bases other than in their own countries, can't be many. War is hell every phkn time!!! Prove me wrong, and yes I'm angry about the waste of time, lives and precious finite materials, all blown to hell....

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Response to Lorenzo LaRue (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:13 PM

45. All well and good but the Army's purpose is to fight and win the country's wars.

No one craves peace more than soldiers. It is soldiers and their families that bear the costs of war.

The Army War College is the schooling for senior level leaders - Colonels and Generals. At that level, the Army depends upon warrior scholars.

Until such time as all the world beats its swords into plowshares, the country will need its Army.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 01:26 PM

39. Agree

Is he still an LTC? Then he hasn't been demoted. He's been reassigned which happens all the time to officers and NCO's who speak up. Saw this crap in Iraq all the time. Only butt-kissers willing to toe the phony line are allowed to stay on the "train".

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:01 PM

11. According to Daily Kos he was removed from this assignment. I was wrong to think

he was completely fired because he would have to be court marshalled no?

Are they moving him somewhere else?

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:06 PM

13. He was not "fired."

I have not heard where he was reassigned but he surely will be. My expectation would be a temporary position in the Pentagon given his knowledge and experience. I would like to see him given command of an infantry battalion which would probably ensure future promotion.

He will not be court-martialed - no crime has been committed. The Army likes officers who do the right thing in tough situations.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:22 PM

16. Kickin' with disgust!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:51 PM

19. President Warren should present him with a medal

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 09:51 PM

20. On the day before Veterans Day?

By cadet bone spurs?

I can’t wait to hear or read how the RusspubliCONs defend this action!

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Response to Fritz Walter (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:47 PM

29. You just put the frosting on the cake!

Gawd, I despise this whole thing. I was po'd before, but now I'm really po'd.

What's next, beheadings?

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Response to Frustratedlady (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 12:09 PM

37. That's foistering

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:10 PM

23. Vindman is NOT the Whistleblower.

However, he IS covered for the retaliation for his role as a witness. It’s 18 USC 1513(e), and is a ten year felony:

18 U.S. Code § 1513. Retaliating against a witness...

“(e) Whoever knowingly, with the intent to retaliate, takes any action harmful to any person, including interference with the lawful employment or livelihood of any person, for providing to a law enforcement officer any truthful information relating to the commission or possible commission of any Federal offense, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.”

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:22 PM

25. Is there a link anywhere about this?

It seems a bit strange that I can't find anything on the Internet discussing Vindman having been "fired" and/or "demoted."

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:28 PM

26. K & R for exposure.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:40 PM

28. Unfortunately, this should not surprise anyone.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:47 PM

30. This will not help trump.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:29 AM

32. "The left and the right" how fair and balanced

the difference is now that we know what the actual truth is we will stop believing the lie. We will also correct others when we hear the sun truth coming from them.

When the right believes something, whether they hear it corrected or not, they just continue to believe it and they don't correct other people that are continue with the lie.

There is such a disparity between the way the right and the left handle misinformation. The left for the most part wants no part of it. We are embarrassed to believe, even briefly, in something that turns out to be false. The right rewards people who produce and disseminate misinformation, and they never stop believing it.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 08:12 AM

33. He is active duty Army. He cannot be "fired"

I figured he was detailed to the NSC, which I'm sure a big chunk of the NSC staff is also. Details can be extended when they expire although I believe there is a limit on how many times that can be done, or not. If not, then you go back to your regular job.

The only thing that can really be done to Vindman is to give him a bad FITREP that would preclude him from his next promotion. Then he'd likely have to retire given the military's up or out promotion policy. They could try to make his life miserable, too, by giving him a bad assignment, but that's about it.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 10:38 AM

35. The "left" has to be better about this.

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Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #35)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 12:10 PM

38. About what?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 01:38 PM

40. fact checking before losing their minds and repeating unverified info

I agree with your post above. But I'd like to see us not get to that point so easily.

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Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #40)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 07:26 AM

46. The difference is

Once we know something is untrue, we won't repeat it, and we'll correct others that do. There is nothing like that on the the right.

There is no shame in taking information in and then not believing it once it is shown to be false. That's what people (honest people) do.

And ask yourself this: is this something that is consistent with Trump's other actions? Without being a reporter/researcher, it's reasonable to believe something that is consistent with past patterns, again until proven otherwise.

So I would save your tsk-tsking. People on the left are doing their best to understand the world given information, their experience, and honesty to admit that they believed something that turned out not to be true. Like you I wish we all had the resources to verify everything that we read or hear. In an ideal world. But don't come down on "the left" for getting momentarily fooled by a false report.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #46)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 09:14 AM

47. I'm not tsk tsking and as I said, I agree with you.

We are good about corrections. My point is that there have been occasions we should have known better and not gotten into a position where corrections were even necessary.

The shame is in taking information as gospel and forwarding it on to amplify the mistake before slowing down and thinking it through. That is something everyone can do better.

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Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #47)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 10:47 AM

49. Agreed. Sorry if I misinterpreted your emphasis

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 10:59 AM

36. He took his oath to defend the US Constitution seriously

told the truth, and is being reassigned. Looks like they're cleaning out everyone who was detailed to the National Security Council.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 04:28 PM

41. "Obviously any retaliatory action against LTC Vindman...

on a day when we honor our military heroes would be reprehensible."

Yeah, but doing reprehensible things is Trump's MO. So I still expect it to happen when the attention is somewhere else.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 05:32 PM

42. Lt. Col. Vindeman's actions are the reason "I vas just following orders" didn't stand up in court.

He is an honorable man and a true patriot. We will make it up to him one we get this madman our of office.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:11 PM

44. Every soldier learns in bootcamp that, "I was just following orders is not a defense",

particularly if the order is an unlawful order. The difference between Lt. Col Vindman and someone like me, (who was not an officer) is that the military paid for Vindman's West Point education for the purpose of teaching him not just to follow orders but to think for himself, know what the rules are, and then to lead by example; so that he would be able to lead other young men and women, enlisted and officers, by his example.

When you get to be a Lt. Col in the military, you know what the military's expectations of you are, and you generally know right from wrong, so you usually don't even have to think about it. Only A-holes like Trump have to stand there and ramble off a bunch of word salad while trying to justify his unlawful behavior. The GOP Congress knows what a liar he is and they are as guilty and corrupt as he is. But like him, their days are numbered too.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #44)

Tue Nov 12, 2019, 10:28 AM

48. I assume this will anger many in the military. I'd love to see the military begin to realize that

Democrats are better for the country than Republicans.

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