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Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:50 AM

Most males know and knew guys like Gym-ini-cricket Jordan ..

Of course the women knew them as well, but I’m referring to the context only of male-to-male athleticism and the “relationships” thereof.

As described in Catcher in the Rye, the protagonist reflects upon the basketball team member who borrowed the coach’s car to take a girl on a date. Now that of course is fairly innocuous compared to the scandal surrounding this particular asshole here, but these creepy guys find each other in the world of inter scholastic/intercollegiate sports (the pros are a whole different discussion).

There was a long-unused term, homoaffiliative, which describes these guys. They have a distaste for women and, like the RW, can justify any behavior of one of their own. And I know this first hand.

Even though I am relatively small of stature, I was a varsity soccer player for four years and played second singles for our tennis team for three, and first doubles in my freshman year, all in high school. I had joined the teams primarily so the big guys wouldn’t pick on me anymore and sure enough, they stopped immediately when they observed my prowess on the field and on the court. I found it both relieving and disturbing, for the criteria for being a victim were trumped (sorry) by athletic skill. These guys live in a world of their own and let me tell you, it can be very very creepy at times. I have about a thousand stories involving these guys which I would never repeat here because they’re misogynistic and/or disturbing but suffice it to say that I exhibited zero surprise when I read the accounts of what went on in that locker room and showers and of course, the doctor’s office. The last would be a whole long thread in and of itself someday perhaps.
In summary, these guys are rarely taken to task for gross behavior, and I mean gross/stomach-turning at times. When I publish my novel you can all read about it.

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Reply Most males know and knew guys like Gym-ini-cricket Jordan .. (Original post)
PCIntern Nov 10 OP
MineralMan Nov 10 #1
Lochloosa Nov 10 #3
MineralMan Nov 10 #14
bitterross Nov 10 #23
Aristus Nov 10 #19
pangaia Nov 10 #22
MotorCityBeard Nov 10 #28
gopiscrap Thursday #31
calimary Nov 11 #30
Generic Other Thursday #32
Kid Berwyn Nov 10 #2
Mike Nelson Nov 10 #4
PCIntern Nov 10 #5
MotorCityBeard Nov 10 #29
Pepsidog Nov 10 #6
dlk Nov 10 #9
PCIntern Nov 10 #27
Wounded Bear Nov 10 #7
Scarsdale Nov 10 #8
dlk Nov 10 #11
Bob Loblaw Nov 10 #10
dlk Nov 10 #15
smirkymonkey Nov 10 #12
extvbroadcaster Nov 10 #13
malaise Nov 10 #16
dalton99a Nov 10 #17
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 10 #18
the_sly_pig Nov 10 #20
Midnight Writer Nov 10 #21
Hekate Nov 10 #24
hunter Nov 10 #25
Initech Nov 10 #26
LiberalFighter Thursday #33
PCIntern Thursday #34
LiberalFighter Thursday #36
lunatica Thursday #35

Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 10:59 AM

1. I'm glad I was a band geek instead of a jock.

Really.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:17 AM

3. All y'all did was drugs.

I knew lots of band geeks

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Response to Lochloosa (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:48 AM

14. Well, my day was a little before many drugs were around.

We had other ways to amuse ourselves, though.

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Response to Lochloosa (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 01:15 PM

23. Not a rock band, the school band/marching band. I was a band geek too.

We were pretty much all straight-arrows. Very boring. No drugs, no alcohol.

There was this one time at band camp though...

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 12:34 PM

19. Me too.

Although I came in for my own kind harassment. I was a tuba player, and the guys in the trumpet section were always stuffing things inside the bell of my tuba when I wasn't looking.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 01:14 PM

22. ME TOO ...



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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:18 PM

28. Raising hand, another band geek here

My first post, but have been on this site since 2000. My old log in was on an ancient email and couldn't recover it.

We had some "stoners" in band, but the majority of the members were, like myself, the "good" kids who did not do that and actually cared about our grades. We still got a lot of harassment, we were called "Band Fags", and such.

We laughed about it and called ourselves that.

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Response to MotorCityBeard (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 12:18 PM

31. welcome to DU

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 11, 2019, 12:32 PM

30. I'm glad my son was "the music kid" instead of a jock!

He was in a rock band for ten years. Not a geek, though. Front man.

And he was one of those who didn’t care about grades or homework. EVERY parent-teacher conference in the middle of the school year began with the same assessment - from eight different teachers, 1st thru 8th: “well he’s REALLY smart, and I know he can do the work. But...”.

A few years later he was packing the Viper Room, touring the US, crowd-surfing at festivals, and signing girls’ chests - at THEIR request.

All he had to do was open that mouth and start singing, and even the hard-ass grade school principal shut up, stopped complaining, and sat down to watch. Last time he was called into her office, she was asking him to audition for the school musical, even though he wasn’t old enough yet. They only allowed the 7th and 8th graders to do the school musical. But they made an exception for him in 6th grade, and once in, they assigned him a big solo. He ALWAYS had a voice. Even before pre-school.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 12:39 PM

32. Me too

Band prepared me for a lifelong love of music. Way better than sports which I could care less about.

And yes, the jocks at my school did things other students discussed in whispers. I will never forget what a cheerleader tearfully confessed to me that happened to her.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:08 AM

2. Here in Meeesheeegun...

...one of the great football powerhouses, a parochial school, forfeited all of its victories and the rest of the season because of behavior by members of the team. Hazing perversions included broom handles and places where the sun doesn’t shine. Parents and others were surprised. Those who are into the history of ultra authoritarianism not so much.

Look forward to the novel, Doctor.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:19 AM

4. I would add...

... that Jordan and the enablers sometimes think young men are not affected because they are usually stronger and more "manly" at a young age. They think an athletic young man is going to fine... it's not true... they are still kids and this is more than slapping a towel or masturbating -- there are sex acts that are not agreed to... and some constitute rape. There can be decades of emotional problems... to let a adult doctor "get away" with any kind of sexual behavior with any student is never acceptable.

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Response to Mike Nelson (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:29 AM

5. Horrifying beyond belief... nt

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 08:28 PM

29. Couldn't agree more. Jordan disgusts me beyond words and I feel I need a shower...

...any time I see a clip of his smarmy, repulsive self.

A hell of a lot of those abused Ohio wrestlers will be struggling with what they experienced at the hands of that doctor for years That piece of shit knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it. Being a gay man who had a really bad first sexual experience with a trusted family member, I know what I'm talking about.

Of course, we all realize if he had a D beside his name, he would have been crucified by the media the minute the first wrestler came forward and would have immediately resigned.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:29 AM

6. Excellent post. I have never heard of this term. Very interesting and explains a lot.

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Response to Pepsidog (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:43 AM

9. There was a recent, similar scandal with the La Vernia, Texas high school football team

This type of male-on-male sexual abuse is much more common than most people realize and has lasting traumatizing effects on the victims Unfortunately, it is seriously underreported due, in part, to our rigid male stereotypes. There is much healing to be done.

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Response to Pepsidog (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 07:53 PM

27. The term is rarely used these days...

I have never heard a reasonable answer as to the question, Why not?

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:33 AM

7. K & R...for visibility...nt

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:43 AM

8. Gym Jordan is a nasty

piece of work, even apart from the ignoring of sexual complaints. How many of these wrestlers and their families voted to put him into office, I wonder? If anyone put one of my sons through this type of behavior, I would have reported it to authorities, until someone with a conscience acted. I am amazed that Gym does not wear his wrestling togs to "work".

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Response to Scarsdale (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:47 AM

11. I would venture a guess most voters in Jordan's district don't know or don't care

The traumatizing impact of male-on-male sexual abuse is too often minimized and swept under the rug.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:44 AM

10. I hear these stories and wonder

how no "jock" ever kicked the shit out of the guy. Honestly.

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Response to Bob Loblaw (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:48 AM

15. It makes you wonder how many "jocks" are complicit

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:47 AM

12. Now you have piqued my curiosity, since I have no idea as to what goes on

among these types of people. I can imagine that it's pretty awful. Can you share one or two of the less horrible anecdotes so we can get a better idea?

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:48 AM

13. I thought gym class was weird

I thought the whole thing of of high school gym class was weird. We had it at like 10 in the morning. So you woke up and got dressed and rode a stinky bus to school, went to a couple of classes and then had to confront some BS like dodge ball with a bunch of steroid induced morons throwing a ball at your head. And then, you were forced to get naked and shower with these same assholes. What a load. When I was a senior one of the perks was no gym class. A small bonus for being put through 3 years of crap by a bunch of gym jocks. Those that can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym. About says it all.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:50 AM

16. Publish that novel

please

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 11:55 AM

17. Look, he can lift a jacket

He does own a jacket which he uses as an umbrella when there is no rain





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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 12:18 PM

18. Of course. Women have known about the "go-along" guys for ages.

Nice that the issue’s finally raised, now that it’s about men.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 12:44 PM

20. "I just could not look the other way".....

Should be the start and end of each response from witnesses to each of Gym Jordan’s questions.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 01:11 PM

21. I know this is purely anecdotal, but I was talking to a guy who is a landlord in a college town

He owns dozens of off campus houses that he rents to students.

He told me that he will not rent to anyone on the college wrestling team.

He has in the past, and he says they absolutely wreck the property. They knock holes in the walls, rip toilets from the bathroom, bust windows. In addition, he is often called by the police at all hours to go to the house because of nuisance complaints, noise complaints, underage drinking, or because they have an arrest warrant for someone they believe is at the house. He also has problems collecting for damages beyond the security deposit, and has had these kids threaten him physically.

Of course he sometimes has problems with other students as well, but the issues with wrestlers are consistent and way over the top.

He says these kids try to act as outrageous as "Pro" wrestlers.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 02:37 PM

24. I must be showing my age, but I immediately understood "homoaffiliative"...

I've known that term all my life, it feels like, but as we both know its use has been superceded by other concerns and other terms.

Yet it encompasses and explains so much that you have discussed in your fine OP.

Thank you.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 03:04 PM

25. They were some of the worst homophobes.

Yeah, they'd masturbate with other guys, but then they'd beat the hell out of anyone they considered "gay."

These guys started harassing me in middle school and it didn't end until I quit high school.

P.E. was required in high school so I took coed swimming and tennis for my own personal safety.

I suffered some horrible assaults in middle and high school and the only counseling I got was to act more like a "man." I was a skinny, squeaky, highly reactive autistic spectrum kid so that wasn't going to happen.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2019, 03:19 PM

26. Oh yeah I had a stalker and harasser in high school.

Thankfully the POS finally got expelled after I spoke up about it toward the end of my freshman year. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he's in jail right now. Later on I found out their family were campaign volunteers for the GOP, which really says a lot about the current political climate that we live in. If only I had known then.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 01:05 PM

33. Never had the experience back in the 70's.

I was a team manager for football, wrestling, and track in high school. The city was about 50,000. Never saw any instance of Gym Jordan crap in the showers or with the athletic trainer. Nothing could be done without others knowing about it.

I was a also a team manager at a state college in a small town (less than 20,000 or so) for the same sports. Later hired as equipment manager responsible for all sports. Football had their own locker rooms and training facilities in the stadium. Nothing funny happened like Gym Jordan there or at the main sports facility in the locker rooms, showers, or trainer's office.

No hazing. At least not on campus. Was not involved in a fraternity while at college.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 01:14 PM

34. You're lucky. Nt

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 01:17 PM

36. I agree.

I don't know if it is different now though. Hopefully not. And hopefully, this serves as a warning.

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Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 01:16 PM

35. Please write that book!

It might well put a spotlight where one is desperately needed. Write it for the victims, past and future.

We need the male version of #MeToo.

Look at what has happened with the Catholic Church being exposed regarding pedophilia. Sports needs that exposure.

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