Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 07:28 AM Nov 2019

Agreeing with Bill Kristol is not good for my mental well being, but...

... he is not wrong...




I’m struck by Trumpworld’s obsession with the whistleblower. Exposing him wouldn’t help Trump’s case a bit. But it’s clear that outing him would be really satisfying psychologically to Trumpsters. One forgets how central to Trumpism are petty vindictiveness and cowardly bullying.


Exactly this.

Buckle said, in his dogmatic way: “Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas.”

Heh. Lowest class indeed...
28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Agreeing with Bill Kristol is not good for my mental well being, but... (Original Post) Soph0571 Nov 2019 OP
He's a diehard RWer, but he's not stupid... Wounded Bear Nov 2019 #1
Vice versa. Strong conservatives are naturally more vindictive Hortensis Nov 2019 #14
They've been a really diverse group of vips... Maxheader Nov 2019 #2
I never forget Cary Nov 2019 #3
Don't forget about PNAC. Arkansas Granny Nov 2019 #10
exactly! not_the_one Nov 2019 #21
And Don't Forget wisheswerehorses Nov 2019 #27
Indeed Cary Nov 2019 #28
He Has a Place Roy Rolling Nov 2019 #4
It is not so much his past Cary Nov 2019 #7
Fuck that. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #8
When we are with our sub-group of purists - some of them, even, bother us empedocles Nov 2019 #16
Yes, lots of people are annoying. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #17
As a former smoker, I totally understand your analogy Farmer-Rick Nov 2019 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Cartoonist Nov 2019 #15
I think it is more about intimidation than anything else. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2019 #5
Brown Shirts Cary Nov 2019 #6
me too. Kurt V. Nov 2019 #11
It is a great tweet, exposes so much of the trumpsters Perseus Nov 2019 #12
piss on bill kristol, anyway. KG Nov 2019 #13
Bill is the proverbial stopped clock. - Right twice a day. Wrong the rest of the time. yellowcanine Nov 2019 #18
The lesson here of course is to ignore the broken clock and what it is telling you pecosbob Nov 2019 #19
Outing the whistleblower would be payback. Doesn't matter that it doesn't help 45. nt eppur_se_muova Nov 2019 #20
And discouraging other potential WBs from acting is just a bonus ? n/t Pluvious Nov 2019 #22
This "One" has never forgotten that, Bill. maxsolomon Nov 2019 #23
Kristol could be right out of Goethe (der Zauberlehrling) DFW Nov 2019 #24
petty vintictiveness and cowardly bullying are central to the GOP Skittles Nov 2019 #25
I'm supposed to like this asshole now? OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2019 #26

Wounded Bear

(58,442 posts)
1. He's a diehard RWer, but he's not stupid...
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 07:35 AM
Nov 2019

The petty vindictiveness of Trump has infused the entire Repub party, it would seem.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
14. Vice versa. Strong conservatives are naturally more vindictive
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 09:04 AM
Nov 2019

and punitive than moderate cons and far more than liberals, the stronger the conservative personality the more extreme. And today's Repub governments are full of strong conservatives.

Those in power have a very long, documented record of going after those who cross them. Not just as a political deterrent, but notably to meet their own need for vengeance and to feed their "red in tooth and claw" voters. Remembering W/Cheney's treasonous "outing" of Valerie Plame after her ex- ambassador husband reported no WMD; she ran undercover agents in African nations, and we'll never know how many died or are in living-hell prisons to this day as a result.

Others less visible have been railroaded into prison here, and insiders are concerned that could happen to the whistleblower if the Trump admin decided to go after him/her with the espionage laws.

Maxheader

(4,366 posts)
2. They've been a really diverse group of vips...
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 07:39 AM
Nov 2019

Military..Business..politicians..theater...Tellin it like it is..the leader of the free world is batshit insane..

But stumpy gives the 1%ers huge tax breaks..so all that other stuff is just lib talk..

It just slides off its back...kristols comment will too..

Cary

(11,746 posts)
3. I never forget
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 07:42 AM
Nov 2019

Bill is new to the realization that he was part of a fascist movement. I do not forget. Bill's heart may be in the right place but his head was up his ass. Did he object to The Southern Strategy? Did he object to "creation science?" Did he condemn Iran-Contra? Whitewater? Pizzagate? Birtherism? The Reagan welfare queen myth? Willie Horton? Swiftboat Liars?

It is a problem when a group is unconstrained by facts and logic. Does Bill own his role in that?

 

not_the_one

(2,227 posts)
21. exactly!
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:56 PM
Nov 2019

He wanted, and helped, another Pearl Harbor type event to happen.

He may be saying critical things of the turd now, but, more than likely, we wouldn't HAVE the turd if he and his group had not been successful.

I will NEVER forgive him for that. NOR Cheney.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
28. Indeed
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 12:01 PM
Nov 2019

The last three elections show us that we don't need Bill Kristol.

If he is going to contribute in a constructive way that's great and I do applaud his efforts. But first of all we need to know that we can do it without him, because we must be confident and strong. And he needs to have humility and to know that we know that we can achieve our goals without him. He needs to know that because it is the truth.

Bill Kristol needs to commit to the truth for his own soul, not ours.

As long as we have our confidence and he has his humility I can believe that perhaps he has evolved.

Roy Rolling

(6,856 posts)
4. He Has a Place
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 07:44 AM
Nov 2019

Sometimes ex-smokers become powerful forces for reducing tobacco use. Not everyone will quit and some who quit take up the habit again.

But mocking and ostracizing ex-smokers from the tobacco reduction conversation isn’t ever useful.

For now, Kristol gets my praise and I withhold my words of judgement and condemnation about his past.

Because he is speaking in coherent, evidence-based sentences. He has obviously been thrown out of the Trump and right-wing camp. There will be many others, let’s be more welcoming but vigilant for troublemakers.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
7. It is not so much his past
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 08:29 AM
Nov 2019

I have questions as to who he really is now. Yes I welcome him and others. He now speaks truth and the value of that cannot be over stated. But actually trusting this man is something I am not yet ready to do.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
8. Fuck that.
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 08:42 AM
Nov 2019

He's an asshole. Men like him helped build the electoral environment that gave us Trump. He and David Brooks deserve eternity together in a sulfuric pit surrounded by demons with hot pokers and distressing notions of where to put them.

He can say whatever he wants but he doesn't get to join Team Humanity just because he had a brief moment of enlightenment.

Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #9)

maxsolomon

(32,992 posts)
23. This "One" has never forgotten that, Bill.
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 02:27 PM
Nov 2019

Stigginit is central to the Conservative mindset.

Welcome to reality. Stay a while.

DFW

(54,059 posts)
24. Kristol could be right out of Goethe (der Zauberlehrling)
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 02:41 PM
Nov 2019

Der Zauberlehrling (The Sorcerer's Apprentice), after wailing about being unable to control all the mayhem he has let loose, cries in despair, "Die ich rief, die Geister / Werd ich nun nicht los (The spirits I have summoned, I can now no longer rid myself of them)."

Guys like Kristol never understand what destructive forces they have helped install until it is too late to stop the disaster they have unleashed. Unlike Goethe's Sorcerer's Apprentice, we do not have a head Sorcerer to come help us banish them. Anyone who thinks our next president, whoever it is, can undo the damage with a wave of their magic wand, is about as realistic as Trump's coal miners who thought he would preserve their jobs for eternity and clean up their water to boot.

Skittles

(152,967 posts)
25. petty vintictiveness and cowardly bullying are central to the GOP
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 08:41 PM
Nov 2019

and KRISTOL had a big part in making the Greedy Old Pig party what it is today

OAITW r.2.0

(23,862 posts)
26. I'm supposed to like this asshole now?
Thu Nov 7, 2019, 08:46 PM
Nov 2019

He has spent decades being a douche bag and lying about the Organized Crime Party? Now, he can't stand to smell the stench he helped create? Fuck him.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Agreeing with Bill Kristo...