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Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:03 PM

This Presidency Has Exposed My White Christian Friends/ Editorial by John Pavlovitz

Last edited Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:54 PM - Edit history (1)

This President has been many things since arriving: a national embarrassment, a global punchline, an environmental disaster, a divider of people, a prolific murderer of the English language.

But he’s also been a floodlight. He’s fully exposed millions of people who’d kept themselves carefully concealed. I can really see them now in ways I never could previously. It’s all out in the open.

Intellectually I always knew that racism was deeply embedded into the fabric of our nation, but I’d convinced myself that it had slowly but certainly begun to unravel, that we weren’t as hopelessly bound by it as our ancestors had been. As a pastor in largely white churches in the south over the past two decades, I told myself the story that the Church was changing. It may have been a combination of privilege and wishful thinking, but I truly thought that we were getting better, that the arc of the moral universe was bending toward justice.

I surely never imagined that so many people I loved, lived with, worshipped alongside, or worked next to—were as afflicted with supremacy as they apparently are. I never fathomed that so many people claiming to love Jesus would so resent foreigners and so worship America and so abhor difference. They were really good at pretending and in my naivety I suppose I was more than willing to believe them even if they weren’t.

<snip> The remainder may be read at https://johnpavlovitz.com/2019/11/01/this-presidency-has-exposed-my-white-christian-friends/

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Reply This Presidency Has Exposed My White Christian Friends/ Editorial by John Pavlovitz (Original post)
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 2 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2 #1
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 2 #2
patphil Nov 2 #62
Cartaphelius Nov 2 #66
Thomas Hurt Nov 2 #3
fierywoman Nov 2 #9
Post removed Nov 3 #93
alwaysinasnit Nov 2 #4
GoneOffShore Nov 2 #5
bluestarone Nov 2 #6
lunatica Nov 2 #7
Missn-Hitch Nov 2 #20
Garrett78 Nov 2 #44
Blue_true Nov 2 #45
lunatica Nov 2 #50
Blue_true Nov 2 #57
lunatica Nov 2 #61
Bluepinky Nov 3 #86
ArchTeryx Nov 3 #68
Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 3 #84
GeoWilliam750 Nov 2 #58
erronis Nov 2 #8
Blue_true Nov 2 #46
erronis Nov 2 #48
Blue_true Nov 2 #53
2naSalit Nov 3 #67
Berlin Expat Nov 3 #69
appalachiablue Nov 3 #73
greymattermom Nov 3 #91
Blue_true Nov 3 #95
stopbush Nov 2 #10
Missn-Hitch Nov 2 #21
defacto7 Nov 2 #23
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 2 #25
Blue_true Nov 2 #47
Loki Liesmith Nov 3 #79
Blue_true Nov 3 #98
Garrett78 Nov 2 #51
keithbvadu2 Nov 2 #63
KentuckyWoman Nov 3 #89
defacto7 Nov 2 #11
Missn-Hitch Nov 2 #22
Major Nikon Nov 2 #12
malaise Nov 2 #13
Girard442 Nov 2 #14
Missn-Hitch Nov 2 #18
Lars39 Nov 2 #38
Girard442 Nov 2 #39
Lars39 Nov 2 #43
True Blue American Nov 3 #72
Lars39 Nov 3 #75
True Blue American Nov 3 #76
Lars39 Nov 3 #77
True Blue American Nov 3 #80
Lars39 Nov 3 #90
True Blue American Nov 3 #94
Lars39 Nov 3 #99
oldsoftie Nov 3 #97
Scurrilous Nov 2 #15
world wide wally Nov 2 #16
Blue_true Nov 2 #49
snowybirdie Nov 2 #17
yaesu Nov 2 #26
Missn-Hitch Nov 2 #19
Initech Nov 2 #24
NCLefty Nov 2 #30
Initech Nov 2 #33
matt819 Nov 2 #27
SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2 #28
Bluepinky Nov 3 #88
Scotch-Irish Nov 2 #29
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 2 #31
Baitball Blogger Nov 2 #32
Evolve Dammit Nov 2 #34
democrank Nov 2 #35
keithbvadu2 Nov 2 #65
Upthevibe Nov 2 #36
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 2 #37
redqueen Nov 2 #40
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 2 #42
New Breed Leader Nov 2 #41
True Blue American Nov 3 #71
UncleTomsEvilBrother Nov 2 #52
ProfessorGAC Nov 3 #85
yardwork Nov 2 #54
roamer65 Nov 2 #55
AwakeAtLast Nov 2 #56
kimbutgar Nov 2 #59
LiberalLovinLug Nov 3 #100
kimbutgar Nov 3 #101
madaboutharry Nov 2 #60
Olafjoy Nov 2 #64
Aussie105 Nov 3 #70
True Blue American Nov 3 #74
democratisphere Nov 3 #78
dchill Nov 3 #81
UCmeNdc Nov 3 #82
ck4829 Nov 3 #83
CousinIT Nov 3 #87
colsohlibgal Nov 3 #92
Nitram Nov 3 #96

Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:12 PM

1. Nailed it:

And this has been the most disorienting, stomach-turning, sickening part of this terrible season: the realization that I have lived and ministered around people who claimed to believe in Jesus while harboring such corrosive hearts—and that I was oblivious to it all. I am both angry at them and disappointed in myself.

And I suppose that is the small bit of gratitude I have for this malignancy of a movement in America: it has fully revealed people—and this is an unwelcome but invaluable gift.

I know what I didn’t know before. My eyes are opened and now I’m responsible for what I do and say in response.
We all are.

Regardless of what happens in the next election or how the political landscape may change or who we have helming our nation—what has been revealed about us as a nation is going to remain, and we’re going to have to deal with the unmasked, unearthed, illuminated hatred that we are this violently afflicted with.

That might be this President’s only worthy legacy."

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:23 PM

2. He put my feelings into words far better than I could have.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:43 PM

62. The sense of betrayal is overwhelming.

This is the only good to come from the Trump Presidency.

The unmasking of so many people I thought highly of, only to see their true colors, and realize how despicable they are.
At least now I know, and can take steps to recover what they would take from us if we let them.

Patrick Phillips

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 10:18 PM

66. Don't you dare blame Satan

for their greed and hypocracy. They were warned but choose to abandon the good works of their "savior" rendering Him as as nothing more than an empty vessel as well as a false god.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:24 PM

3. many of your christian friends sold out to an antichrist for politiical ends and expediency

bigotry?...try the blasphemy of worshiping a false god and prophet.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:59 PM

9. And certain sects of these "Christians" even longer ago sold out to

the idea that if someone didn't believe exactly as they did, that they would "go to hell." Their big problem is when they started ignoring the golden rule.

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #9)


Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:26 PM

4. K&R Thanks for posting.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:46 PM

5. JP is also on Facebook. I like his stuff.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:49 PM

6. Yea for sure!

Didn't realize we had that many NAZI lovers in our Churches! NOW WE DO!

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:57 PM

7. The truth was always there for everyone to see if they cared to

The question now is, if most of us are willing to acknowledge it, what are we going to do about it?

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Response to lunatica (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:46 PM

20. Hear, hear!!

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Response to lunatica (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:01 PM

44. Agreed. The response to Obama's election and re-election should have been clue enough.

Not to mention how reliant Reagan, Bush and other Republicans have been on dog whistling. And Nixon's Southern Strategy before that.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:06 PM

45. You are exactly right.

I always pay close attention to how people treat other people that they have no use for. At a lunch, business or otherwise, watch how the people that you're with treat the wait-people, especially those that aren't smooth or attractive. How each individual treat a person that they have no use for is how they will treat you if the day comes when they have no use for you.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #45)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:39 PM

50. I used to be a waitress for many years

You’re 100% right. There are people who will go out of their way to demean you and be critical just because they can. I used to think they did it because their boss must have chewed them out that day.

For years I worked in one of the most popular seafood restaurants in the Bay Area. I and the rest of the waitpeople would make well over $100 a day just from the volume of diners. And that was back in the 1970s. Most people loved the place and had been going there for years, but every once in a while some real assholes would go.

If I ever go out to lunch or dinner with someone who can’t be bothered to even say thank you when they get their drink or food and feel entitled to be nasty I drop them. Period. Because they’ve shown me exactly what they are. They’re assholes.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #50)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:53 PM

57. Due to your experience, you likely have great insight into people's character

simply from watching how they behave every minute. That is a valuable life skill to have.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #57)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:49 PM

61. It's a valuable lesson

but being the recipient of that kind of treatment means learning it the hard way. I could have learned the same thing just as well as an observer.

On the other hand I was treated with respect and counted on to give good service and to help people decide what entrée to order and which wines would be to their liking. It’s surprising how many adventurous people there are who are willing to order out of their comfort zone. A few specifically oriented questions can easily narrow their tastes down. I never had anyone complain about my suggestions. In many ways it was very rewarding, not just in the tips.

Once I even saved a woman’s life with the Heimlich maneuver. I’ve always felt good about that.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #61)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:02 AM

86. You should feel great about using the Heimlich to save someone's life.

Now that’s what I call good service!

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Response to lunatica (Reply #50)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 02:09 AM

68. And some of us...

Make damn sure to thank our waitstaff, banter with them if they need a little pick-me-up, and tip 20% afterward. I'm one of those people the waitstaff recognizes at my few regular restaurants, and they're always happy to have my table.

Plus I very frequently get first class service out of the deal. I call that a win-win.

Assholes don't realize that being an asshole full time is a rather limiting lifestyle. Not everyone has to tolerate you being an asshole or get fired.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #50)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:24 AM

84. My grandfather told me

"Someone who is nice to you but not nice to the waiter, is not a nice person."

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #45)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:26 PM

58. Always liked the phrase:

"It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice."

Treating people with courtesy and respect is not only the right thing to do, it is also the smart thing to do.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:58 PM

8. I feel blessedly isolated from those southern/mid-western magats

I guess I thought the US was a better place living in the rural North East.

Sorry to hear that the basest tribal/racist instincts are still alive. And being fed by the (R)epuglicons/dumpass.

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Response to erronis (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:20 PM

46. I would not be so smug if I were you.

I was born and raised in the South and live in the South now. Through work and now business, I have a chance to travel far and wide. I am an observer of people and cultures that I am present in. The South has open racism, but our housing tracts are surprisingly racially integrated, segregation in housing here is more economic than by race (though one can argue that race is the basis for economic segregation, a valid argument). In the South when I am out of my technical/business cocoon and am out in public, I routinely see grandparents with interacial grandkids, or Black or White moms and dads with their interacial children, I don't see that remotely as often in the Northeast, Midwest, Interior West, I do see it some in California and Washington State, not so much in Oregon.

We are a complicated society in the South. Yes, we are fucked up in a lot of ways, but in others, we are blindly leading the nation, even as we don't know it, housing integration being one of the leading things.

The thing about the South is that on average people are so poor that they can't up and move somewhere else when other races move in, we get to know their neighbors and take things from there. I don't see that any other place but California and the Seattle region of Washington State.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #46)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:29 PM

48. Points well taken. And I know that the racial/tribal bigotry exists everywhere.

But perhaps it is better understood and self-controlled in some places rather than others.

The situation is changing, but I've always been impressed how much of western Europe was able to embrace other cultures post WW-II. The Afri.can-Americans who escaped the bigotry of the US and lived in Paris. Musicians, artists, novelists. Maybe it has to do with the circles that we live in

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Response to erronis (Reply #48)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:49 PM

53. Western Europe embraced those cultures because there was not a large

number of them. France is a different society now that Muslims make of close to 20%, there is open hate.

In my part of Florida, Whites outnumber Blacks by a ratio of something like 6.5 to 1, maybe that is why I see things happening that I don't see in the Boston or St. Louis geographical regions, their racial mixes are closer, with Blacks being up to one fourth of the population. I have read that some researchers saw that with the minority population of a region reached 15-20%, racial strife escalates.

Generally what I see about White people in the North is that they are better at hiding their racism, it isn't that they are less racist than White southerners.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #53)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 12:23 AM

67. I agree with your assessment

of the cultural aspect of the bigotry in the northeast. I grew up there with a few stints in southern states. I grew up in a large mix of cultures and languages in the cities. Not so much in the rural areas back then. But I went to school with kids whose first language was not English and I would likely not hear English if I went to their house, which was the case many times. I thought that was normal. Even my parents' parents spoke other languages at home, though my parents only spoke English. I heard all kinds of languages from French and Spanish to Hebrew and Finnish, Polish, Lithuanian...

There was always tension between groups more in some places than others. Local rivalries were common, a tribalism of location as well as ethnic tensions. It's always been there. So when I moved to the western part of the country as a young adult, I was amazed at how homogeneous the populations of many places were once you get away from the coastal areas. And the bigotry seemed about the same. Only more about Indians and Mexicans (now they add anyone looking Arabic) but the same old crap.

I've been in and out of southern states and what I noticed most was the accent was different from up the coast.

I'm in a not-so-diverse environment now, same as it ever was.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #46)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 03:10 AM

69. I used to live in the Portland, Oregon

area many years ago; you're right about interracial couples being uncommon in Oregon.

In the 1990s, my girlfriend at that time was a black woman and we'd certainly get some looks when we were out in public. Not always disapproving looks, but often looks of surprise.

No one ever said anything, probably because I'm a 6'3" white guy who looks like Walter White (and I was rocking that look well over 25 years ago).

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Response to Berlin Expat (Reply #69)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 05:41 AM

73. Portland is the whitest city in America. Lecturing about racial issues

by residents of Portland and PNW is obnoxious and often laughable.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #46)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:41 AM

91. Thanks for making this point about the South.

I live in Atlanta, where most of the professionals I encounter are Black. I've come to expect that the electrician, plumber, medical tech person, financial planner, you name it, will be Black middle class folks. There is still open racism, but I lived in Kansas City for 30 years, where the only Black students in my children's school were the children of professional athletes and a few trauma surgeons, and the only Black faculty at the medical school were I taught were from Africa. I really hate the South bashing on DU. Try driving around upstate New York sometime.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #91)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 10:16 AM

95. It is easy for people that don't live in the South to bash it.

We bring some on ourselves, but a lot of it is just ignorance from people that don't know the culture here at the depth that people that have lived here a while do.

A lot of people here on DU may think this is a crazy statement, but other than much of California and the Seattle area, the South is the most likely part of the country to lead us out of our racial issues in the future. I see things happening here that give me great hope in that outcome.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:17 PM

10. Do you think our species will ever mature to the extent that we openly lay the blame

for such hatred where it belongs, at the feet of Christianity itself? The hatred is in the beliefs expressed, in the misogyny, racial hatred, the depiction of basic humanity being something evil that needs to be overcome through divine intervention and only through divine intervention.

Let’s please stop making excuses for the shitstorm that is Christianity. Let’s stop deluding ourselves that there are “real Christians” who act not on what they’ve been taught in their Buy-bull, but what they have been able to glean and accept from Enlightenment thoughts and ideals. At their core, all Christians are servant to the MAKE BELIEVE their religion expounds as fact. They are commanded to go and convert the world to their make believe, damn the facts.

We really need to grow up.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:48 PM

21. Thank you for posting! Cheers.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:49 PM

23. I put the blame more on

the Abrahamic based religions in general as well as on the political systems that enabled them millenia ago. If we want to go even more broad I would say there was a point where our intelligence increased beyond our ability to cope with our past. We never quite rid ourselves of our need to create myth as an answer to chaos. In that lies a bad mixture of survival and clan mentality, ultimately, bigotry and religion itself. This is simplistic but there it is anyway.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:06 PM

25. I would have to lay the blame at the foot of all major

organized religions for a myriad of reasons.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:24 PM

47. It is not just Christianity.

Some believers in every other religion preach hate and the concept of supremacy of their beliefs. The problem is endemic to organized religion, not just one organized religion.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #47)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 06:26 AM

79. The problem is endemic to humanity

Religion is just one way to exploit it. We are biologically predisposed toward tribalism. For prehistoric humans tribalism was a survival skill.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #79)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 11:08 AM

98. Good point. A tendency toward selection and tribalism did cause some to survive while others went

extinct.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:44 PM

51. I don't think we can lay the blame on Christianity, but we should recognize that religion is a tool.

A tool that's used to divide and conquer. A tool that's used to justify atrocities.

I certainly agree with your overall message, though. It's not a virtue to believe in that for which there is zero evidence, and we need to stop suggesting that it is. Meanwhile, we have millions of people denying that for which there is a mountain of evidence, such as anthropogenic climate change.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #51)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 09:42 PM

63. Religion and politics use each other to gain power and wealth.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:22 AM

89. it isn't Christianity. It is bigger than that.

People were racist, genocidal and slave holding each other before Jesus.
Neanderthals were not murdered by Christians.
The destruction of Carthage was not by Christians.
Genghis Khan was not Christian.
Caligula and Nero were not Christian.

Wipe Christianity from history and you will simply have something else used to fear monger and divide us.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:18 PM

11. Stunning reality.

I am also taken aback. Only 3 years ago I was under the false impression that although there were limited backwood enclaves of bigotry and antiquated stupidity, the western world was well onto a progressive path. I figured the old ways that separated human from human was dying off and inclusivness and advancement of our species was possible, maybe even probable. I was seriously wrong.
I've come to the conclusion that we are a seriously corrupt species and if there is hope it's not here, not now. We will not undo the damage done by this coming out for many generations and I do not believe we have many generations left for survival.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:49 PM

22. And I am angry. Thanks for posting. Cheers.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:20 PM

12. I'm shocked!

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:24 PM

13. Must read

Rec

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:25 PM

14. If you think it's bad to see the evil unveiled in your fellow worshipers, imagine it's your family.

More than a few of us DUers have experienced that.

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Response to Girard442 (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:40 PM

18. Hear, hear!!

I'd rather be alone in the world than go down the road they are on.

They beg to be ruled. They are authoritarian.

Never.

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Response to Girard442 (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:19 PM

38. I have a dinner tomorrow with them.

Not looking forward to it at all. I know they’ve only dug their heels in.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #38)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:24 PM

39. Maybe the scales have fallen from their eyes.

Yeah, I know. Not bloody likely. One can hope, though.

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Response to Girard442 (Reply #39)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:56 PM

43. I'm sure not holding my breath.

Sometimes a differing viewpoint from a fellow veteran will crop up, but not too often.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #38)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 05:36 AM

72. I congratulate my Son

Who has most of the family get togethers. He laid down the law! NO POLITICS!

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #72)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 05:51 AM

75. I never bring it up.

Starts off with a political prayer for the president. gah

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #75)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 05:57 AM

76. I feel for you.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #76)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 06:07 AM

77. Thank you!

Life in a red state...sigh

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #77)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 06:26 AM

80. I live in a red state too

And all the InLaws are die hard Republicans. That is why my Son spoke out knowing how I feel.

I have seen him a couple of times waving his arms behind me when they start spouting. One of his SIL’s tried to show me what was wrong with the ACA. I pushed her paper away telling her I knew what the ACA was.

The irony? She is a Pharmacist who now works for Care Source, the MEDICAID over seer.
Kasich approved MEDICAID here. Claimed it was the Christian thing to do. That was after he tried to kill Public Unions. We objected, put it on the ballot with 1.3 million signatures. Won overwhelingly.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #80)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:26 AM

90. Maybe she's figured out by now that Obamacare and ACA are the same thing.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #90)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 10:09 AM

94. No, she would repeat the same

Old, tired talking points. I have not talked to any of them about Trump.

His MIL and I have become very good friends over the years, traveled together, but I laid down my chips when the Bush war was praised. I made it clear what I thought of the Bush lie of a war. I can not honestly say what they think of Trump..

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #94)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 11:12 AM

99. Yeah, sometimes best to just move on, if possible.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #72)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 10:50 AM

97. Thats how i've kept some friends. Theres plenty of other things to bitch about.

Like how the Falcons suck AGAIN this year.
Its sad that so many people will totally cut off people from their lives just because they voted for an asshole. Although SOME of them isolate themselves, and in that case, too bad for them. The bubble gets smaller and smaller

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:32 PM

15. K&R

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:34 PM

16. Riddle me this:

Why do Americans hate foreigners like never before, but they think it's perfectly fine to have them manipulate our elections?

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:38 PM

49. Racism.

Russia can get involved in our elections and that is ok with the overwhelmingly White right, but China and Iran can't. Worldwide there has developed a White brother and sisterhood that seems built on the supposition that Whites worldwide were the ones that produced advanced cultures and that Whites are under attack, politicians and radio hate talkers use that for all it is worth.

Even with clear doom clouds robust, I see indicators of hope for the future, especially here in my native Florida.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:37 PM

17. Have a nephew

and his wife. Several years ago,they "found Jesus" and adopted a slightly superior attitude towards those of us who remained unenlightened. Of course, they now follow the Gospel of Trump fiercely. Fought me on FB and argued all the time. Sad to lose what was formerly a close relationship. I used to respect them. Highly educated and professional. They seem to have regressed into idiocy. Now I have lost respect. Anyone with half a brain can see what he's doing to this country. So sad!

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Response to snowybirdie (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:08 PM

26. This happened to my brother & his wife, religion got its claws into them and they turned into

Pious followers of tRump. I haven't talked to them in years.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:45 PM

19. Now let's focus on the so-called moderates of religion.

They provide cover for these people.

Religion is to be mocked.

And I claim that mutha effing right.

Cheers everyone! I love the fall. Had a great walk with the dogs.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:04 PM

24. He has definitely exposed the religious right's true agenda.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with what Jesus actually taught.

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Response to Initech (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:17 PM

30. They've been exposed as long as I can remember. See: "moral majority" in the 80s.

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Response to NCLefty (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:27 PM

33. But Chump is pandering to the radical end times apocalypse worshipping side of it.

And you know that won't end well!

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:09 PM

27. Brilliant.

Read every word.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:13 PM

28. send this to Dennis Praeger

He announce the hell out 9f me on Real Time last night. Can't find him on Twitter.

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Response to SleeplessinSoCal (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:12 AM

88. Try Dennis Prager.

Don’t know if he’s on twitter.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:14 PM

29. I wish people would call out Fox "news" for all the enabling it has done of hate speech.

Everyone keeps looking around wondering what happened to America. Fox "news", Rush Limpballs, and Ann Coulter. Until sane people start calling it for what it is, this insanity is still going to rock on.

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Response to Scotch-Irish (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:18 PM

31. From your keyboard to...

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:21 PM

32. If only we could all start over and methodically remove these people from our lives.

Pick another best man, avoid playdates with conservatives, get a law degree. You know, the kind of stuff that would be helpful in today's age.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:42 PM

34. Excellent post and also Velveteen Ocelot. I am very discouraged to witness the unmasking.

We are not the nation we pretended to be. By that I mean the fake "Christians" that control so much of our populace. Pence is one scary second-in-line.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:45 PM

35. Maybe we'll hear less about EEEEvangelicals

and a little more about decency and morality when it comes to folks claiming to to Christians.

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Response to democrank (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 09:51 PM

65. Trump devout Christian - We should practice Christianity like Trump?

Trump devout Christian - We should practice Christianity like Trump?

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:02 PM

36. Wow.....

I just sent this article to my nephew (my sister's son who was raised by my brother and my mom as a Christian). He's been in youth ministry his whole life (or at least he was - I'm not sure what's he's doing now). He has BLASTED his so-called "Christian" friends on FB. I mean he's GONE OFF on them and de-friended them (on FB and in real life) for the racists and the hypocrites that they are.

Because he and I live in different states and he's just not into chatting on the phone, the main way I know what's going on with him is through FB and his wife (who I've never met but seems to be a wonderful and amazing person). She had adopted a little girl from Ethiopia and then when they married they adopted a little boy from Nicaragua. Also, my nephew's father is Mexican-American and my sister, his mother, was Caucasian so he's biracial.

In any case, thank you so VERY much for posting this article. I sincerely appreciate it....

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #36)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:13 PM

37. Good for him.

And you are welcome.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:40 PM

40. It's a new kind of Christianity. Anyone unaware should watch The Family.

Or look into Doug Coe and the shadowy group he set up.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #40)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:52 PM

42. That was truly chilling. Agreed.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:51 PM

41. To be honest, Barack Obama exposed them first.

People I knew that I didn't realize were racist suddenly started acting weird about him. I was so shocked.

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Response to New Breed Leader (Reply #41)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 05:33 AM

71. You know ,that is quite true, but

I also watched many friends become much more tolerant as they realized their own hidden prejudice.

Those are the ones who realized their Religion was being used to spread hate and fear. That is also a reason why so many Churches are shrinking, not growing.

I am one of those who realized the Church I was attending was nothing but a right wing, do it my way or the highway, gun loving ,pretend Abortion hating, Bible clutching, greedy, fearful who thought nothing of taking the programs that help the poor, elderly and sick among us.

They hated the ACA that was a start to help everyone.. they used the first 3 things I mentioned to ease their conscience by comparing Trump to Churchill, for Heaven’s sake! No 2 men could be less alike.

So I found a Church that Follows in the Footsteps of Jesus!

Millions are doing the same or simply checking out of Organized Religion.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:45 PM

52. Sounds like this writer...

...missed the white Christian role in slavery and the Civil Rights Movement. If so, the writer would know that white Christians have always been exposed.

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Response to UncleTomsEvilBrother (Reply #52)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:32 AM

85. Read It Again UTEB

Early in the piece John says he knew there was racism in Christian churches but thought that they were getting better.
So the acknowledgement you seek is there

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:50 PM

54. Well worth clicking the link to read his whole essay.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:51 PM

55. The Hypocrisy of Pseudo-Christianity.

If I hate, I’m eternally forgiven for it. If you’re not pseudo-Christian like me and you hate, you’re going to hell for it and I can hate you back but I’m “forgiven” for it so I’m ok.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:52 PM

56. The night Obama was elected

I said to to my husband, " Well, now we're going to find out just how racist this country really is."

Now we know...


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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:34 PM

59. This whole embrace of the anti christ mf 45 by these evangelicals have really turned me off

To religion and now I look and listen with distrust when I hear them speak of God. These evangelical cult of 45 will be responsible for Christianity losing followers in the future. They need to just come out with their white hoods and admit they are white supremists. And don’t get me started on black evangelicals who support a man who hates them for the color of their skin. But uses them for votes.

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #59)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 12:50 PM

100. Yup. Same here

 

Well, I've been turned off of organized evangelical Chrisitian church for quite awhile now. I was brought up in it and most of my brothers and sisters are still followers. My sister is now whining how they are baselessly attacking poor Donald. Big Facebook user.

Yet if I ever am scanning the radio dial on a Sunday and stop and listen for a few minutes from an evangelical preacher, I hear the same things I did growing up....Be humble, love is the answer, don't lie, or cheat, be kind, steer clear of worldly temptations, etc....and send us money! he he.
But I find the evangelical Christian message on these stations even more repugnant now knowing how much of a hypocrite this brand of Christian is, when they hear all this, and then turn around and support such a vile unGodly piece of trash like DT.

It cements my belief that those that adhere to such a strict interpretation of the Bible, especially on social issues, those in the evangelical community, are ensconced in a cult. Trumpism has grown into a cult unto itself, but it meshes so well with this other more ancient cult, that has had centuries to perfect their hold on followers. These kinds of people that can so blindly believe in a giant invisible God on a throne in heaven, who not only created the world, but is also involved in every detail of every individual on Earth. A God who doesn't get blame if prayers don't work for their Uncle Matt's cancer, or thousands of tsunami victims, or starvation in Africa...but gets all the glory if Aunt Mable's operation went well.

These kinds of people are susceptible to mind control and manipulation. And with Fox News on all day, and the only political talk shows on radio are RW propaganda, they just slide into the Trump cult like a warm bath.

After GW Bush I started understanding how the Republicans use evangelicals for their own purposes. How easy they are to manipulate . And I questioned why I or anyone would be involved in a community that could so easliy be led around bu the nose by sleazy politicians that obviously wanted war in Iraq for their own financial gain.

But Trump has taken that to a whole other level. He HAS exposed all of them. That any religion, or any kind of organization for that matter, and its individual members can be so taken advantage of, can actually be made to think they support behaviours that they themselves have been preaching against for decades by a man that rejects their faith for himself, is the final nail for me. I used to think that maybe when I get older, I may return to my childhood faith.....but watching the debasement of these gullible fools put a nail in that coffin for me.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #100)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 12:59 PM

101. +1

Raised catholic and even that religion has become corrupted.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:37 PM

60. What John Pavlovitz says here has been the thing that has really broken my heart.

Having to face the fact that somewhere between 35% and 40% of Americans are truly terrible people has overwhelmed me.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 09:48 PM

64. I was so oblivious

I have been shocked and devastated at the behavior of his base. I had no idea there were SO MANY people who are so racist and filled with hate in this country. To see the people at his rallies gleeful and basking in the hate is painful for me. Especially the “Christians“. Growing up we were very involved in our church. I heard the teachings of Christ over and over. Love thy neighbor, care for the poor, it is better to give than to receive, be humble, seek justice. At church camp we sang a song where the chorus was “and they’ll know we are Christian by our love, by our love, yes they’ll know we are Christian by our love”. People who support orange idiot can not be the followers of Jesus aka Christians.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 03:38 AM

70. I truly thought that we were getting better

"I truly thought that we were getting better, that the arc of the moral universe was bending toward justice. "

Bless you for those words, and your insight.

One day, perhaps, in the post Trump era? The light that shines on the Right Path is still there, even if somewhat dimmed in the current times.

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Response to Aussie105 (Reply #70)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 05:48 AM

74. Moonie Church

Jesus was an Assault weapons manufacturer. Crazy as a loon!

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 06:08 AM

78. Frauds. Even their Savior would be pissed.

Last edited Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:13 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 06:33 AM

81. They have replaced Christ with Trump.

Turns out it was surprisingly easy.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 06:41 AM

82. I must admit I am surprised too.

I never realized so many average normal people around me were so full of hate for the "others" in this world.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 06:44 AM

83. K&R

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:03 AM

87. Some members of my "Christian" family hate/dislike whole swaths of people

Blacks (="lazy", according to some of them)
Young girls/women (attitude is that they're mostly sluts if not married and going to church - OR women are all evil and should be enslaved - MRA brother)
The poors (we don't want to pay for your healthcare)
The gays (lgbtq - they consider it a "lifestyle choice" rather than the fact that it's how they were born)
The immigrants/refugees (our country, stay out, we don't want to pay for your healthcare)

That's a LOT of people.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 09:17 AM

92. Undoubtedly

How Pious supposed Religious folks can support this lying tax cheat adulterer, a man who inherited 55 million from Daddy and managed to go bankrupt multiple times is astonishing.

IMHO it exposes them.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 10:23 AM

96. Obama's election served a similar function. He brought all the racists out into the open.

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