HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » AOC nails it on M4A! This...

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 01:23 AM

AOC nails it on M4A! This is how you respond when someone asks "how will you pay for it?"



Everyone needs to watch this incredible video of @AOC absolutely obliterating the scaremongering over the cost of Medicare-for-all. This is how you respond when someone asks “how will you pay for it?”






.

108 replies, 8606 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 108 replies Author Time Post
Reply AOC nails it on M4A! This is how you respond when someone asks "how will you pay for it?" (Original post)
KelleyKramer Nov 2019 OP
Sinistrous Nov 2019 #1
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #26
Celerity Nov 2019 #32
pangaia Nov 2019 #51
Polybius Nov 2019 #77
Tursiops Nov 2019 #79
SamKnause Nov 2019 #2
ritapria Nov 2019 #3
alwaysinasnit Nov 2019 #4
Duppers Nov 2019 #5
Skittles Nov 2019 #6
whathehell Nov 2019 #7
NJCher Nov 2019 #8
sop Nov 2019 #9
NBachers Nov 2019 #10
dchill Nov 2019 #11
3sam3 Nov 2019 #12
Mister Ed Nov 2019 #13
democrank Nov 2019 #14
Scotch-Irish Nov 2019 #44
BlueMTexpat Nov 2019 #15
JudyM Nov 2019 #40
Sherman A1 Nov 2019 #16
KY_EnviroGuy Nov 2019 #17
Mike Niendorff Nov 2019 #18
Alithea Nov 2019 #19
tblue37 Nov 2019 #22
smirkymonkey Nov 2019 #20
tblue37 Nov 2019 #21
Luciferous Nov 2019 #28
tblue37 Nov 2019 #30
Luciferous Nov 2019 #46
pecosbob Nov 2019 #36
JudyM Nov 2019 #41
wasupaloopa Nov 2019 #23
Doremus Nov 2019 #58
wasupaloopa Nov 2019 #71
emmaverybo Nov 2019 #74
malaise Nov 2019 #24
ExciteBike66 Nov 2019 #25
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #27
Vinca Nov 2019 #29
brush Nov 2019 #31
demmiblue Nov 2019 #33
Horizens Nov 2019 #34
Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2019 #39
Horizens Nov 2019 #43
Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2019 #47
TryLogic Nov 2019 #53
paleotn Nov 2019 #62
paleotn Nov 2019 #61
Horizens Nov 2019 #64
Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2019 #65
Horizens Nov 2019 #80
paleotn Nov 2019 #72
Horizens Nov 2019 #82
paleotn Nov 2019 #91
George II Nov 2019 #100
George II Nov 2019 #68
emmaverybo Nov 2019 #102
kentuck Nov 2019 #35
BSdetect Nov 2019 #37
Hoyt Nov 2019 #38
Recursion Nov 2019 #42
Poiuyt Nov 2019 #45
Recursion Nov 2019 #85
TexasTowelie Nov 2019 #86
emmaverybo Nov 2019 #103
George II Nov 2019 #105
paleotn Nov 2019 #66
Recursion Nov 2019 #84
paleotn Nov 2019 #87
Recursion Nov 2019 #88
paleotn Nov 2019 #89
Recursion Nov 2019 #94
paleotn Nov 2019 #97
Recursion Nov 2019 #98
Fiendish Thingy Nov 2019 #69
Recursion Nov 2019 #83
paleotn Nov 2019 #90
Recursion Nov 2019 #95
paleotn Nov 2019 #96
George II Nov 2019 #101
Recursion Nov 2019 #108
warmfeet Nov 2019 #48
patphil Nov 2019 #49
colorado_ufo Nov 2019 #50
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #59
MrsCoffee Nov 2019 #92
TryLogic Nov 2019 #52
SMC22307 Nov 2019 #54
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #60
pangaia Nov 2019 #55
lapucelle Nov 2019 #56
Cha Nov 2019 #73
Turbineguy Nov 2019 #57
thesquanderer Nov 2019 #63
George II Nov 2019 #67
Horizens Nov 2019 #99
The Wizard Nov 2019 #70
lapucelle Nov 2019 #93
zentrum Nov 2019 #75
StClone Nov 2019 #76
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2019 #78
Name removed Nov 2019 #81
Joinfortmill Nov 2019 #104
Joe941 Nov 2019 #106
FM123 Nov 2019 #107

Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 01:36 AM

1. AOC is a formidable young woman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sinistrous (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:03 AM

26. Yes, too bad AOC is not eligible and running for President this time around... she'd be a shoe-in!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:30 AM

32. She makes it by 99 days (how is that for a NYC/Jay-Z reference) for 2024.

The youngest a person can be and still run for POTUS amd be legally sowrn in (the the 2024 election) is to be born in January 20th, 1990, as they would turn 35 on the swearing in day. There is some legal reasoning that says you actually attain your legal age on the day before you birthday, so perhaps (it would be a huge court case) a person could be born on January 21, 1990 and still be elected and sworn in as POTUS on January 29th, 2025.

Buttigieg, for 2020, actually could be 4 years, and one day YOUNGER and still run (he was born January 19th, 1982).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:43 PM

51. Uh, as much as I usually like her.. I don't think so by a long shot....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 10:08 PM

77. A shoe-in for losing 45 states

I like her but no Justice Democrat can win a National election at this time. Not that she would would even win a primary state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 10:17 PM

79. She is a natural. Win or lose, she would ignite the country.

"Trump would never be elected president".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 01:51 AM

2. Well done.

Well done indeed !!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 01:53 AM

3. WOW

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:00 AM

4. Damn. She just knocked it out of the park.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:29 AM

5. K & R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:53 AM

6. this is how you answer when you PREPARE

people running for president need to take notes

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 02:54 AM

7. Damn, she's good.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:03 AM

8. She

Has the best words.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:27 AM

9. No wonder they're so afraid of her, she is one impressive, passionate and well prepared young lady

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:42 AM

10. Well, I guess that settles that . . .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:42 AM

11. How long until she's 35, again?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:52 AM

12. You Go Grrrl

Boy, you just have to wind her up and.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:53 AM

13. Very impressive! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:55 AM

14. I wish I could recommend this a thousand times.

She’s right, it’s about our moral priorities. If all other industrialized nations can do it, so can we. Forget the tax cuts for billionaires.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to democrank (Reply #14)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:41 PM

44. I'm with you. AOC nails the important points AND puts the blame squarely on republicans

 

where it ABSOLUTELY belongs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:57 AM

15. If ALL Democrats responded like

this instead of with timid, tepid comments, we might FINALLY be able not only to grab, but to carry the momentum.

Bravissima, AOC!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 12:10 PM

40. This. Sharp and pointed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:15 AM

16. WOW!

Game, Set, Match!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:24 AM

17. Wow, just wow. So much truth in two minutes!

............

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:24 AM

18. K&R


*This* is how you approach arguments that are based on false framing and false choices.

Well done.


MDN

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:28 AM

19. That's a perfect answer

 

I’d love it if we could stop overusing agressive terms like “obliterated” in non-adversarial contexts but, that said, her answer was brilliant and should be put on a perpetual loop. I haven’t been watching her too closely, but now I’m beginning to understand why she’s considered a rising star. Well done!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Alithea (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:39 AM

22. Unfortunately, we deafies can't hear what she says, and no summary is provided. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:47 AM

20. Brava AOC!

Well done! Very impressive! I want to see more politicians fight like this for us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:38 AM

21. Please, could you tell us deafies what she said? Thanks. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tblue37 (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:03 AM

28. She brought up the point that we always seem to have unlimited money for wars

and tax cuts for billionaires but when it comes to things like education and healthcare we are asked how do we pay for it. She also said that nobody takes into consideration the cost of decreased productivity and funerals for people that don't have access to the healthcare they need and that we are already essentially being taxed for healthcare anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Luciferous (Reply #28)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:16 AM

30. Thank you! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tblue37 (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:33 PM

46. No problem :)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tblue37 (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:41 AM

36. and also that we're already paying more in premiums that M4A would cost.

Employer + employee contributions...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tblue37 (Reply #21)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 12:17 PM

41. What Luciferous said (good summary!)

She cut through all the hand wringing of the opponents by changing the framing entirely to focus on the true costs of our existing system and the sinister double standard of always somehow having limitless money to achieve gop goals, but never enough for the social, moral responsibility needs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:46 AM

23. She is right that we spend too much on war and tax cuts but we are not in power.

 

Only by taking over the whole government can we pass a new healthcare plan. That means we have to win big in November. To win big we need the left, moderate, independents and never trumpers.

To me the lamest reason used to support single payer is that everyone else does it. This country has too many differences from every other country to use that as a reason.

The second lamest reason is that we are already paying for it.

You need to convince voters that single payer is what our health care system should become.

I think there is no convincing argument out there that could sell single payer or M4A to the number of voters we need to take over the government.

In my mind the best argument for universal health care is empathy.

People need to care that not everyone can access the health care they need. It may be as plain as the nose on your face to you but most voters think of themselves first.

If they have healthcare they like, telling them you are going to force them into a government run system because everyone else does it or that we already pay enough for it will not get their vote.

That is what I see as the fault with AOC’s argument. It just will not sell to enough voters to let us take back the government. It does just the opposite.

The winning argument is choice. Give people the ability to choose the way they pay for health care. We can get to universal affordable health care without tearing down but by adding what is needed to get to universal health care. That is by adding a private option that competes with the insurance industry and is means tested as far as what an individual has to pay.


We will not defeat trump with AOC’s arguments. We need to own all of government first then we will have the room to debate new ideas. You need opponents to M4A on the team to defeat trump.

If we lose in 2020 you can kiss universal health care good by for the next several generations. There will not be a court in the land that will allow it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:08 PM

58. When did we get so fearful?

Americans respect confidence and bold thinking. They yearn for it. Bold thinking brought us Medicare in the first place. It brought us Social Security, Medicaid and any other program of lasting value.

This timid "how will we pay for it," and "they might be scared away if we give them govt healthcare" BS needs to go away. Quit carrying their water. These are repuke talking points!

Let's pull up our big boy/girl panties and stop cowering in the fucking corner already!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doremus (Reply #58)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:13 PM

71. Well say hello to trump for four more years with that thinking! God people wake the fuck up!

 

We have to win first!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:31 PM

74. +1000000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:48 AM

24. You go girl!

Most excellent

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:55 AM

25. Funeral expenses of those who died due to lack of access...

I wouldn't even both with those, compared to the loss of productivity the nation suffers from such deaths.

If someone asked me how to pay for it, I would just point to the $1000/month family plan my employer offers and say I already am...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:04 AM

27. BOOOOOOOOM!!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:07 AM

29. That was brilliant. No wonder the GOP is so upset by her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:26 AM

31. She's sharp, good ideas, just hope she stops primarying other Dem incumbents.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:40 AM

33. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:26 AM

34. She Responded But ..

 

She Never Answered the Question

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Horizens (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 12:03 PM

39. she answered it in the first 30 seconds

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #39)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 03:32 PM

43. Horse Hockey

 

She didn't answer the question. She stated that the existing system costs more but didn't say how M4A would be paid for.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Horizens (Reply #43)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:47 PM

47. I can't help you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #47)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:48 PM

53. Good response.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #47)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:12 PM

62. You can lead a horse to the obvious...

but you can't make him think. Excellent response.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Horizens (Reply #43)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:10 PM

61. You're not serious.

You can't be serious. Dear God on a stick.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #61)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:28 PM

64. No

 

She didn't answer the question. She stated a study that concluded M4A would cost less than the present system and equated today's premiums to a tax. She did not say how M4A would be funded. She did not answer the question. Period.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Horizens (Reply #64)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:45 PM

65. current system worse than regressive tax

How is Medicare paid for? Medicare for all is a catchphrase for the expansion of the Medicare system to include everyone. If "M4A" costs less than the current system, it pays for itself. The difference is everyone pays 1 "insurance" provider instead of money being thrown at dozens.

We all pay for the current system, plus exorbitant overhead, plus exorbitant profits. It's like a regressive tax, such as a sales tax. "M4A" would eliminate considerable expense -- those profits for mansions and much of the overhead -- while spreading the cost more evenly among all. It would be similar to a progressive tax, such as the income tax, because it would subsidize the poorest people who cannot afford any health insurance now.

All of those logo-spattered skyscrapers that insurance companies like to show off cost a lot of money. Each of us with health insurance pays for those things, along with the private jets, extra mansions, golden parachutes, expense accounts, etc. We also pay for armies of doctors who do nothing for a living except review and deny claims.

Each dollar dispensed by Medicare costs about 1/4 as much in overhead as each dollar dispensed by for-profit wealthcare companies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #65)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 11:03 PM

80. She Didn't Answer the Question

 

and neither did you. Your explanation merely state that funds now going to private insurance will go to a single payer source. That's more than she said but ... no dah.

Will M4A be funded through taxes, premiums, co-pays or a combination of the three? She doesn't say and neither do you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Horizens (Reply #64)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:19 PM

72. The money you and your employer pay for private health insurance...

.........will go to the a central health care payment function. And since there's no need for vast sums spent on useless insurance company overhead and profit, it will cost ALL OF US LESS MONEY. There. Fixed it. Happy now?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #72)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 11:12 PM

82. See Post #80

 

My answer there applies to you as well.

And NOBODY (not Warren, not Sanders) has said, "it will cost ALL OF US LESS MONEY".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Horizens (Reply #82)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 09:01 AM

91. Are you being purposefully dense? Is this an act?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Horizens (Reply #43)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:43 PM

100. Precisely. Not a single, specific statement about how it will be paid for. Nothing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Horizens (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:56 PM

68. Exactly. But the good thing is that under "M4A" we can eliminate the costs of funerals (at least...

...that's what she implied about 50 seconds into the video)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #68)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:58 PM

102. LOL!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:29 AM

35. I wish she was old enough to run for President.

I would vote for her. She has the passion and the vision to lead the country, imo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 09:30 AM

37. If only every Dem spoke so comprehensively. Do your homework Reps.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 09:38 AM

38. Heck, we don't even know what it is going to cost. It was $34 T last month, now Warren says it's $52

$52 Trillion over 10 years.

I get what AOC is saying, but someone needs to get real before we are locked in and running against trump, or more likely another Republican.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 12:38 PM

42. No good. The problem is who is paying what.

The fact that Ocasio-Cortez is right doesn't make it an effective argument, unfortunately.

The problem is the richer half of white Americans, roughly, have good insurance through their jobs that they don't have payroll deductions for. They will see no decrease in payroll deductions (since they don't have them) and an increase in taxes. The fact that it pays for itself overall doesn't change the fact that upper middle class white people will have less take-home pay.

I wish somebody would just be honest about this: we're going to tax the middle class to pay for health care. It's what all of Europe does, through a VAT. We would just do it through the income tax system instead. I wish we would just stand up for that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #42)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 04:04 PM

45. Just because there isn't a payroll deduction doesn't mean it's not part of the total

compensation package. If companies no longer needed to pay into expensive private insurance, they could increase the wages of people who get their health insurance through their work.

BTW, when I received a W-2 form, it itemized what my employer was paying for my medical insurance..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poiuyt (Reply #45)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 01:03 AM

85. ROTFLMAO

they could increase the wages of people who get their health insurance through their work




Yeah, no. They're not going to do that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #85)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 04:05 AM

86. +1

Where are these benevolent employers because I need a job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poiuyt (Reply #45)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:02 PM

103. OMG! That will be so nice of them. Just to show they too are true progressives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poiuyt (Reply #45)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:51 PM

105. Sounds like trickle down economics to me - give the employer a financial break they'll give it...

...to their employees.

We learned almost 40 years ago that doesn't work.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #42)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:50 PM

66. Umm, yes they do.

I'm part of that richer half of white Americans and I've cost shared medical insurance premiums with my employers for my entire 30+ year career. No one, and I mean fucking no one, has fully paid health insurance anymore. In fact, the trend now is to high deductible with HSA to cover out of pocket, even at fortune 100 companies. Trust me. I'm living it. And the cost I pay every 2 weeks and what my company pays has gone up far in excess of inflation every single one of those 30+ years.

A sizable portion of those premiums are insurance company profits, 7 and 8 figure compensation for senior insurance industry executives, and vast amounts spent on advertising and marketing. ALL OF THAT IS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY AND A TOTAL WASTE OF YOUR MONEY and mine!!! Add to that the cost of back office, duplication of efforts at every single private insurance carrier. Also add the armies of people health care providers must pay to handle all these different insurance carriers...what they will pay...what they wont pay...how to code this that and the other.... paperwork on top of paperwork. Private insurance admin costs, according to the study linked below, average 12%+. Medicare averages around 2%. By having only one major payer, Canadian hospitals admin cost is only around 12% of revenue, verses 25%+ in the US. In short, our private system is the most ludicrously inefficient and costly way of paying for health care anyone with half a brain could imagine. It's utterly insane.

We're paying far, far more than we should. In a single payer system, the fat and froth goes away, so in the end, you, me, our employers, the federal government, state governments...ALL OF US...pay less for the same level of care.

https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2605414

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #66)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 01:02 AM

84. Lots and lots and lots of people have insurance paid for by work

My last three jobs did, come to think of it (I could have gone with the nicer PPO and paid a small premium, but I never chose to).

A sizable portion of those premiums are insurance company profits


About 6%. I don't know if that's "sizeable"; it's an irritant but not what makes health care so expensive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #84)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:38 AM

87. You're joking, right?

An irritant. Insurance company profits? And complete BS on the "Lots and Lots and Lots". That's health insurance fully paid by the company...no premium sharing. Evidence of that? Got any? Hmmm? Lots and lots? Hmmm?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #87)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:52 AM

88. About a quarter of workers pay nothing

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ebs2.pdf

And the average premium for people who get insurance through their employer is about $125.

And, yeah, the 6% private insurance overhead just isn't the problem. Remember that even Medicare and Medicaid end up handing off the provisioning to companies like Anthem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #88)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:57 AM

89. Ummm, no. The 25% of workers stat ain't there....

Show me, if you can. What is actually there....

Healthcare coverage premium sharing....
National Averages....
Private Industry / State & Local Gov. employees....

Single Coverage 80% Employer 20% Employee - Page 10. First line in the table.
Family Coverage 67% Employer 33% Employee - Page 12. First line in the table.

Here's the premium sharing for federal employees for 2020. Even they don't have full employer paid health insurance.

https://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insurance/healthcare/plan-information/premiums/



Private insurance overhead is 12% on average, not 6%.

Private insurers' overhead currently averages 12.4% versus 2.2% in traditional Medicare (2). Reducing overhead to Medicare's level would save approximately $220 billion this year (Table) (3). Single-payer reform could also sharply reduce billing and paperwork costs for physicians, hospitals, and other providers. For example, by paying hospitals lump-sum operating budgets rather than forcing them to bill per patient, Scotland and Canada have held hospital administrative costs to approximately 12% of their revenue versus 25.3% in the United States (4).


https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2605414

Citations from paragraph above...

(2) https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/ReportsTrustFunds/Downloads/TR2016.pdf

(3) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12930930


Yes...they do hand offs to companies with bloated executive pay, profit for shareholders and other useless SG&A that does not exist in a single payer system. Your point??

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #89)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 09:51 AM

94. "seventy-three percent of workers made flat-dollar (i.e. premium) contributions"

Meaning 27%, or about a quarter, didn't. On page 2.

AFAIK Federal employees have always had premium cost-sharing; at least always during my adult life. In the private sector, you find zero-premium plans more in the nonprofit world than in the for-profit world, which is part of why the topline salaries are generally lower.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #94)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 11:13 AM

97. I see it now. Thank you. However....

16% have variable premiums, leaving only 11% without premiums.

Then again, we're dithering about %'s and losing sight of the big picture. Our system of private insurance is ridiculously inefficient and costly. The wealthiest nation on earth can do far better. Give coverage to everyone at a lower cost than we all pay now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #97)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 11:31 AM

98. Ah, I missed the 16%, thanks

So, yeah, 11% of the workforce, or about 18 million people, don't pay premiums. And (this being what started this) they are the richer and whiter part of the workforce, which means they vote more and their votes count more. That's the problem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #42)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:03 PM

69. They will see an elimination of deductibles and copays

I think the majority of Americans pay monthly premiums, and so will see significant out of pocket savings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #69)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 12:38 AM

83. Why would deductibles and copays go away?

I thought we wanted to give everyone Medicare

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #83)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 09:00 AM

90. Canadian system.

Read about it. It covers everyone no matter what their age. Ask an average Canadian if they'd give up their system for ours. I have. They look at you like you've lost your fucking mind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to paleotn (Reply #90)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 10:23 AM

95. Canada has premiums, depending on your province

I think the Maritimes are mostly premium-free, but BC, Alberta, and Ontario have monthly premiums.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #95)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 11:02 AM

96. And everyone has health care. Imagine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Recursion (Reply #42)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:49 PM

101. Not true. Virtually NO Americans who are covered by insurance through their employers....

....rich, white, or whatever, have no payroll deductions for that insurance.

I worked for 45+ years, in every job I had - from low paying part time jobs to salaried positions, I had a payroll deduction for health insurance. That was for both the employer provided insurance AND Medicare. I even drove a cab for two years while in college, essentially an "independent contractor", and they deducted health insurance from my pay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #101)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:59 AM

108. The numbers are upthread

It's tens of millions of workers. Every job I had at a nonprofit didn't have payroll deductions for insurance, for the last 20 years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 05:55 PM

48. Quite so.

I would like to be able to vote for her in several years - vote for her when she runs for POTUS. My dream and my hope.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:33 PM

49. She's incredible!

AOC is going to have a long and successful career in government.
She talks to the common person, just like Elizabeth Warren.
Maybe some day she'll be president.
After Elizabeth Warren wins in 2020.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:35 PM

50. I want this woman for president, but

we would only have her for 8 years. She needs to gain as much experience and knowledge as she can in the political system, foreign affairs, and every other aspect of the office before she takes on this roll. She can learn a lot from Nancy Pelosi and others who I'm sure would be more than happy to groom her for office. We want her at her most effective, not when she has barely found her way around Washington.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #50)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:09 PM

59. AOC is ready now... but we can wait until Bernie finishes his 2nd term.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #59)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 09:06 AM

92. How do you make yourself believe something like that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:46 PM

52. YES !!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:53 PM

54. It is that simple: endless war and tax cuts for the uber-wealthy.

AOC nails it again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SMC22307 (Reply #54)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:10 PM

60. Yup, AOC sure does!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:57 PM

55. Cuomo's face !!!!!!!!!!!



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:59 PM

56. Walter Bragman? Really?




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #56)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:21 PM

73. That didn't age so well for Bragman.. Yeah, there are a few us not

jumping on that wagon.

Mahalo, lapucelle!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:06 PM

57. We're already paying

for it. We pay for the emergency room visits of those who use them for primary care. We pay for the bankruptcies of people. We pay for the phenomenal inefficiencies built into our current system.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:18 PM

63. She's wrong in saying that the Supreme Court ruled that our monthly payments are a tax.

They ruled that the penalty for NOT getting insurance (when there was one) was a tax.

The monthly payments are paid to insurance companies, not the government, so definitely not a tax.

I'm surprised she got it wrong, and that so many people here have commented positively but no one has mentioned it...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 07:53 PM

67. That interview was more than a year ago, August 9, 2018. But, she never did answer....

....the question "how will you pay for it." However, she DID say this, at about 50 seconds into the video:

“Why aren’t we incorporating the cost of all the funeral expenses of those who die because they can’t afford access to health care. That is part of the cost of our system.”


Is she saying there that under Medicare for All people won't die and we can eliminate funeral expenses?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #67)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 07:37 PM

99. You're Right

 

she never answered the question. I pointed this out earlier in the thread and I'm taking a verbal beating for stating that fact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:08 PM

70. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is militay waste.

No one in Congress mentions it because defense contractors have enough of Congress on the payroll to keep the golden egg laying goose dropping bribes. Also consider the savings from not paying insurance premiums.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Wizard (Reply #70)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 09:38 AM

93. BOOM: Bernie Sanders Loves This $1 Trillion War Machine

Sen. Bernie Sanders has railed against big defense corporations at rallies, but he has a more complex history with the military-industrial complex. Most notably, he’s supported a $1.2 trillion stealth fighter that’s considered by many to be one of the bigger boondoggles in Pentagon history.

snip==================================================================

We know that there is massive fraud going on in the defense industry. Virtually every major defense contractor has either been convicted of fraud or reached a settlement with the government,” Sanders said in Iowa City last year at a town hall. “We need a strong military, it is a dangerous world. But I think we can make judicious cuts.”

But when those defense corporations come to his own backyard, he quietly welcomes them in.

The Vermont senator persuaded Lockheed Martin to place a research center in Burlington, according to Newsweek, and managed to get 18 Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jets stationed at the city’s airport for the Vermont National Guard.

snip====================================================================

“In very clever ways, the military-industrial complex puts plants all over the country, so that if people try to cut back on our weapons system what they’re saying is you’re going to be losing jobs in that area,” Sanders said at a Q&A in New Hampshire back in 2014. “[W]e’ve got to have the courage to understand that we cannot afford a lot of wasteful, unnecessary weapons systems, and I hope we can do that.”

History has shown that Sanders has not had the courage to do that.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-loves-this-dollar1-trillion-war-machine?ref=scroll

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 08:44 PM

75. Love her!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zentrum (Reply #75)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 09:02 PM

76. Me too! So absolutely right about so many things.

AOC stands up to the Right and knocks down their fantasies, lies and conspiracies. They are jealous of her and wish she were on "their" side. They being the stars of the Republican Freak Show.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sat Nov 2, 2019, 10:16 PM

78. That was superb. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:14 PM

104. She rocks

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 08:57 PM

106. This is why her endorsement of Bernie is so great!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KelleyKramer (Original post)

Sun Nov 3, 2019, 09:36 PM

107. "Why do we only have empty pockets for the morally right things to do?"

Good question AOC!
We need more smart questions like this (and of course more smart representatives like her)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread