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Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:07 AM

Picture this: it's the year 2035 - 16 years from today

we turn on the tv and who do we see but Ellen Degeneres, or another yakker talking about how Trump deserves our kindness. Or, a Democratic president hugging him like he's their long lost brother. What would your reaction be? Mostly revulsion, right?

Well, it's been 16 years since 2003 when GW Bush lied us into a war and started down the road to becoming a war criminal. I don't know about you, but back then I wouldn't have thought that in such a short time we'd have people treating Bush like he's their warm and fuzzy grandfather, or other such relative.

This is what happens when we don't hold our leaders accountable for their crimes. Among other things, it permits the revisionism that is now occurring. If we - and I include Obama and other politicians in the "we" - had held the Bush administration to account either during his presidency or through a subsequent legal process, we might not be in the situation we're in today. Perhaps our elected officials might understand that there are severe repercussions to their behavior...that we, the American people, wouldn't stand for lies, corruption and unethical policies. And THAT is why we must do what we can do to protect our democracy, and make Trump answer for his crimes and unethical, immoral behavior.

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Arrow 72 replies Author Time Post
Reply Picture this: it's the year 2035 - 16 years from today (Original post)
choie Thursday OP
Garrett78 Thursday #1
Coventina Thursday #2
NCLefty Thursday #8
Beartracks Thursday #3
Disaffected Thursday #4
Butterflylady Thursday #30
SamKnause Thursday #5
Garrett78 Thursday #11
SamKnause Thursday #13
Duppers Thursday #21
DrToast Thursday #6
Joe941 Friday #63
tandem5 Thursday #7
sop Thursday #9
Initech Thursday #10
aeromanKC Thursday #14
Doodley Thursday #18
BlueStater Thursday #23
Doodley Thursday #28
lunatica Thursday #37
Dave Starsky Thursday #45
maddiemom Thursday #49
Doodley Thursday #50
maddiemom Friday #58
treestar Friday #59
Initech Thursday #44
former9thward Thursday #46
BlueStater Thursday #47
former9thward Thursday #52
BlueStater Friday #54
former9thward Friday #67
BlueStater Friday #69
LanternWaste Friday #68
N_E_1 for Tennis Thursday #33
maddiemom Thursday #48
pnwmom Thursday #12
lunatica Thursday #38
pnwmom Thursday #39
lunatica Thursday #40
pnwmom Thursday #41
Joe941 Friday #64
33taw Thursday #15
Doodley Thursday #16
roamer65 Thursday #17
Doodley Thursday #19
Garrett78 Thursday #22
roamer65 Thursday #27
OneCrazyDiamond Thursday #43
misanthrope Friday #55
OneCrazyDiamond Friday #71
misanthrope Friday #72
Lock him up. Thursday #20
Duppers Thursday #24
Bayard Thursday #34
Duppers Thursday #35
BlueStater Thursday #25
FiveGoodMen Thursday #36
Spider Jerusalem Thursday #26
Dirty Socialist Thursday #29
Sherman A1 Thursday #31
lordsummerisle Thursday #51
Sherman A1 Friday #56
lordsummerisle Friday #66
Sherman A1 Friday #70
pintobean Friday #61
Sherman A1 Friday #62
Mike Niendorff Thursday #32
OneCrazyDiamond Thursday #42
Demonaut Thursday #53
ramen Friday #57
Buckeyeblue Friday #60
Buckeyeblue Friday #65

Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:10 AM

1. Well said.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:10 AM

2. I totally agree. I think the biggest mistake of the first two years of the Obama presidency was the

"let's forget the past, just move forward" attitude.

At the time, I was OK with it, believing that there would never be such a horrible administration ever again!

Boy was I ever wrong.

We all were.....

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Response to Coventina (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:46 AM

8. Agree. It was a mistake not to hold them to account.

We seem to like doing that but it's sending the wrong message to these people.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:28 AM

3. Criminals don't ignore the past. They're like: "Hey, that worked out NICE!"

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:36 AM

4. What is that old saying now?

Something about forgetting the lessons of history??

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Response to Disaffected (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 03:14 AM

30. Or perhaps

History repeating itself.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:42 AM

5. K&R

I agree, but it didn't start with Obama.

Corporations have taken over our government and the courts.

Ford should have not pardoned Nixon.

The military is rarely held accountable.

The Pentagon is never held accountable.

Our police are rarely held accountable.

Wall Street was not held accountable.

The U.S. has a two tiered justice system.

The U.S. is corrupt.

Trump is increasing that corruption on a grand scale.

It is difficult to have trust in a system that continues to fail those it is meant to protect.



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Response to SamKnause (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:17 AM

11. And let's face it, the US is an imperialistic nation with a long history...

...of supporting ruthless dictators. No leader of the US Empire is going to relish holding predecessors accountable, as they, too, may face the same fate.

This is an ugly truth that most don't want to face. Smedley Butler knew what he was talking about.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #11)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:23 AM

13. The ugly truth indeed.

I describe it as soul crushing.

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Response to SamKnause (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:06 AM

21. Post worth saving ⬆⬆

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:43 AM

6. Honestly, I think Ellen is getting so much shit because of Trump

When Michelle Obama was friends with Bush, everyone talked about how classy she was being.

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Response to DrToast (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:39 AM

63. Its wasnt classy for Michelle and it's not classy for Ellen.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:44 AM

7. I just think OJ Simpson should publicly solicit being a guest on her show...

that would kinda shut down her argument pretty fast.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 12:50 AM

9. Ivanka will be launching her campaign to run for her third term as POTUS by then

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:04 AM

10. You assume Trump will be alive 16 years from now.

Given his diet and near complete lack of exercise, a massive coronary will most likely be his downfall. And what's left of his supporters will most likely blame his death on the deep state.

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Response to Initech (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:34 AM

14. No KFC in lock up

We'll be more likely to see Trump at a parole hearing in 16 years.

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Response to Initech (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:55 AM

18. He's in pretty good health for a man of his age. Most men in their 70s aren't playing golf and

living an ultra-high stressful life. Don't get me wrong. I want him gone now, but he could be around for a long time.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:09 AM

23. I see no indication he's in good health at all.

The only information about his health has been revealed through hack doctors.

And golf isn't exactly what I would call the most physical of sports.

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Response to BlueStater (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:30 AM

28. Golf gives more exercise than most men in their 70s get. If my family members in their 70s were

still playing golf, my life would not revolve around caring for them, taking them to doctors, and getting their prescriptions and groceries.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #28)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:59 PM

37. He never walks when he golfs.

He uses golf carts exclusively. That is hardly exercise. You drive to the golf ball, reach into the golf bag for a club, hit the ball, climb back into your golf cart and so on and so on. Thatís hardly exercise.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #37)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 06:50 PM

45. He even drives the damn golf carts onto the GREEN.

Which would get you and me kicked off any golf course in America. He can't even walk 15 fucking feet to putt a golf ball.

This sad, heart-congested, morbidly obese mofo is simply unfit for office in every way.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #28)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 09:04 PM

49. If the men in your family in their seventies are in that poor shape (needing that much caregiving),

they must have taken very poor care of themselves when younger, or had unfortunate health problems for years.

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #49)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 10:00 PM

50. They took poor care of themselves. Fatty southern food. No exercise. Alcohol. They

didn't put money aside for any care in their older years. They are Republicans. They begrudge healthcare for people who aren't as fortunate as them. But as a good husband, I have to suck it up and be there for my in-laws.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #50)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:24 AM

58. Ah, that explains it. Too bad.

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #49)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:25 AM

59. Maybe genes and family history too;

though I would agree; people in my family have to be in their 80s before you are carting them to the doctor's office and doing errands for them. With them using canes and walkers, etc. In their 70s they were traveling and doing outside things; still driving.

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Response to BlueStater (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 04:28 PM

44. Yeah I would definitely not trust Dr. Oz's opinion on anything.

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Response to BlueStater (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 07:17 PM

46. If he was not in good health he would not be doing non stop rallies since his election.

To fly around the country and speak for a hour and a half at a time or more takes a lot. People in poor health could not do that. I know that all sorts of people will now claim they could do it and they are in their 70s, etc. but that is the beauty of the internet....

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Response to former9thward (Reply #46)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 08:18 PM

47. Just because he isn't on his deathbed doesn't mean he's in good health.

Being nearly 300 pounds when he's 73 is a pretty strong indication of that, as well as his terrible diet and nearly nonexistent lack of exercise (if you have to count golfing and talking at a podium as exercise, you're really straining).

I've seen healthy elderly people. My paternal grandfather was still playing tennis when he was in his early 90s. Some fat asshole opening his ignorant mouth for two hours doesn't impress me.

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Response to BlueStater (Reply #47)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 10:56 PM

52. I have been seeing posts predicting Trump's imminent death since 2015.

I suppose some year they will come true....

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Response to former9thward (Reply #52)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 02:26 AM

54. Not dying or being dead is a pretty low standard of good health.

The fact that he has continuously gone through so much trouble to hide his medical records from the public seems to suggest there's something in them that he doesn't want anyone to see.

Based on his lifestyle and physical appearance, he's unhealthy. Just because he hasn't suffered a major health crisis as of now (at least that we know of) doesn't mean anything. People his age who don't take care of their bodies can be fine one second and then in a whole hell of a lot of trouble the next.

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Response to BlueStater (Reply #54)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 08:49 AM

67. I am not going to play a doctor on the internet.

I will leave that to others. But speaking of medical records I can remember President Obama declined to release his full medical report and just a summary. (Those exams were done by Ronnie Jackson, the person Obama appointed to be his personal physician and is now blasted as some sort of fraud). Presidents try to hide medical conditions and embarrassments. Kennedy was the most famous for doing that. It is human nature. It is just one more thing voters have to consider when deciding who to support.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #67)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 09:14 AM

69. I don't care how respected Doc Ronny may or may not have been in the past.

When he stood at the podium and made such ridiculous hyperbolic statements as President Asshole being able to live to 150, something no professional doctor would do, I knew he had gone to the dark side.

Other than what Doc Ronny and that other quack doctor in New York have said and I don't trust either of them as far as I could throw them, we know absolutely nothing about Trump's health. Nothing at all. He's the least transparent person to ever tragically obtain the presidency.

Since we know nothing about Trump's health, I have to play internet doctor and make my own assessment based on what I see. Judging from everything I know about healthy eating, exercise, and weight management, he's not healthy and is risking heart disease by continuing to live the way he is. That's common knowledge regardless of whether you're a professional or not.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #52)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 09:12 AM

68. I have seen posts pretending an obvious joke is imminent policy.

Which is about as relevant as your own reponse.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:19 PM

33. Golf cart to the first hole...

He stumbles out waddles to the tee...swipes at a little ball...gets in the cart is driven to the ball...gets out...swipes at a ball... is driven....come on thatís not an indicator of being in good health. I know guys in their 70ís that can chop a few cords of wood for heat in the winter or still grab the shovel and clean out the roadside ditch in front of the house and none of them would wear anything like he is.

Oh yeah... Iím a short couple of years behind them and Iím sitting here after lunch just finishing up clearing a 20í x 220í piece of my backyard for our new blueberry and raspberry garden for next year.
Reclaimed from our old field.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 08:54 PM

48. GOLF? Lots of men (and women) in their seventies are playing golf.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:19 AM

12. Sorry, but Trump is much, much, much worse than George Bush, much as I couldn't stand him.

Bush was just a normal rotten Republican President. Trump is a monster.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #38)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 03:02 PM

39. I didn't say "pretty good sort." But Trump is worse than any previous President, by far. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #39)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 03:06 PM

40. I posted the first thing that came to mind

I will cancel the post. It wasnít meant as a personal attack on you.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #40)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 03:34 PM

41. Thank you, lunatica.

We're all going to feel so much better when the orange menace is gone.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:41 AM

64. Uhm.. honestly I dont know who is worse.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:34 AM

15. Is Bush getting shit from the right?

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:51 AM

16. Trump is so bad, none of us might not be here is 16 years.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:53 AM

17. TV in 2035 will be about the millions displaced by climate change and the crisis of it.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:57 AM

19. Good point. We are about to enter a very dark age.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #19)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:07 AM

22. It amazes me that young people move to Florida, Arizona, etc.

Then again, it shouldn't amaze me given how much denial and ignorance there is.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:17 AM

27. Young ones think they and the world around them is forever.

I did...and it isnít.

Reality eventually bites everyone. In 2035, reality is going to bite harder than a T Rex.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 04:26 PM

43. After we take the senate and presidency back.

That won't happen. We see clearly what the opposition is, and will move quickly. Young Democrats like AOC have the vision and focus we need to avoid that hellish scenario.

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Response to OneCrazyDiamond (Reply #43)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 03:34 AM

55. Well, I'm glad you and others believe that

However, what's coming in 2035 is already in the pipeline on the way to us. Look at how the data coming in is beyond what were conservative estimates for changes to the climate and ecosphere. Any changes enacted soon will be in hopes of staving off the rising effects in the latter half of the century.

That said, I'm doubtful enough gets done in time. I don't have enough faith in our species being able to act swiftly enough in such massive numbers. It's so inherently problematic, I don't know that it's possible.

Not that it shouldn't be tried. It's better than doing nothing.

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Response to misanthrope (Reply #55)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 11:51 AM

71. It sounds like you are losing or lost hope.

I see things like in Germany meat consumption is down as signs we are winning.

Hell, even in the good ol' US we are rewriting our food pyramid.

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Response to OneCrazyDiamond (Reply #71)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 01:26 PM

72. The Europeans are ahead, yes

The biggest problems are in Asia and North America. Americans have a particularly carbon-intensive lifestyle, using resources at a greater rate per capita than any other nation on the planet. The Anthropocene extinction is happening, driven as much by habitat destruction as it is by the CO2 we're pumping into the atmosphere.

The only metric by which I can base my expectations for the future is humanity's track record. "Past is prologue" and all. That track record is horrifying and deplorable.

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Response to choie (Original post)


Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:11 AM

24. Didn't someone accept candy from Bush? nt

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Response to Duppers (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:39 PM

34. Michelle Obama

I think the first time she was just being polite. Now he's turned it into a thing--like at his father's funeral.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:43 PM

35. Yup.

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:14 AM

25. Big IF that Trump will even be alive in 2035. He's currently 73.

And if he is still alive by then, there's a damn good chance he'll hardly be in the best of shape. For the record, while his dad lived to be 93, he suffered from Alzheimer's at the end of his life and Donnie's brain seems to be failing him even now.

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Response to BlueStater (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 01:46 PM

36. So, who will be king then?

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:15 AM

26. 16 years from now Trump will probably be dead; he's 73 (n/t)

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 02:35 AM

29. Bush didn't even vote for Trump

He voted for "none of the above"

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 05:58 AM

31. This thing with Ellen is manufactured outrage

And nothing more. There are real issues that are far more important than who sits next to who and carries on a civil conversation with them at a sporting event.

I donít care on wit about either GW or Ellen or Sports, but this manufactured outrage in my opinion is far beyond absurd.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #31)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 10:13 PM

51. I think Ellen sees it as

two celebrities (using the word loosely) spending time together. Being a member of the celebrity club trumps any disagreement over politics.

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Response to lordsummerisle (Reply #51)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 05:45 AM

56. Perhaps

I really don't care what Ellen thinks one way or the other.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #56)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 08:29 AM

66. I'm sure she'd return the compliment n/t

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Response to lordsummerisle (Reply #66)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:55 AM

70. Makes

less than zero difference to me one way or the other. The opinions of celebrities are equal in value to the opinions of everyone else.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #31)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:31 AM

61. Yup

The manufactured outrage fuels hatred and creates misery.

I'd rather be happy. Ellen seems happy.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #61)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:32 AM

62. +1

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 06:16 AM

32. Extremely well said.


K&R.


MDN

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 04:17 PM

42. I agree with accountability.

but Russia put trump in....

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Response to choie (Original post)

Thu Oct 10, 2019, 11:10 PM

53. I agree with you, Ellen does not, it's her choice

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Response to choie (Original post)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:20 AM

57. That lack of accountability is dangerous.

Can you imagine if a Democratic president intentionally and knowingly manufactured a pretext to invade a country, at great cost (so many civilian lives, so many soldiers' lives, and untold trillions of dollars..), and the resulting war destabilized a whole region, and the instability resulted in a fascist theocracy spreading across several nations for a while.. and then, a little while later, we are expected to let those bygones be bygones? For old times sake?

Straight to hell with him, from my perspective. I respect Ellen Degeneres' right to have hers. I just don't share it. Why not have the CEO of Dow on an Indian talk show and make nice about Bhopal?

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Response to ramen (Reply #57)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:26 AM

60. Lyndon Johnson did that in Vietnam

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Response to choie (Original post)

Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:46 AM

65. I agree with your idea but holding leaders accountable is complicated

I agree that the Bush Administration mislead Congress to get them to vote to approve the Iraq invasion. I don't remember very many people in Congress challenging what they were told. It was pretty much a rubber stamp. In fact, they probably would have approved the invasion if Bush would have pointed at Iraq and smirked. Everyone was blood thirsty for revenge after 911, and most Democrats didn't want to be seen as weak on defense or terrorism. The big problem with the war was how poorly it was managed. It was a shit-show of incompetence from the top down. And Bush was incompetent in everything. From wars to domestic issues, his poor judgement was constantly on display.

But I don't see how any of that is a true crime that that you use to punish someone. Our constitution gives the executive branch great leeway. Some take more advantage of it than others.

Had Obama focused on proving Bush a fool when he took office, he probably would not have succeeded at saving the economy or passing ACA or the financial reforms.

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