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Wed Oct 9, 2019, 11:04 AM

Subpoena means "Under Penalty"

So the question now is, what is the penalty for defying the House's subpoenas?



14 replies, 591 views

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Response to edhopper (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 11:06 AM

1. There isn't one.

The budget office just confirmed they will not comply with their subpoena.

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Response to edhopper (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 11:10 AM

2. so far to date not a single one and I am not sure if house leadership knows what actions to take

at this point. They need to think what the otherside would do if positions were switched

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 11:30 AM

4. House leadership knows exactly what its options are.

You underestimate them. When will penalties be imposed? That's a judgment call, really. And it's not a judgment any of us on DU are qualified to make. Nancy Pelosi and the Committee chairs will decide that. They're the ones in charge.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 01:17 PM

7. They are good at hiding it so far in every case a

subpoena been ignored, no further action has happened to enforce the subpoena, tell me I am mistaken by explaining what they did do?

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 02:57 PM

8. a subpoena would be enforced by a court, not congress

and, yes .. they HAVE .. but thanks anyway for paying attention.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 04:04 PM

10. so what supoena been enforce on who and when did they appear to testify under a court order so far

this session?

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 10:04 PM

14. I don't feel compelled to do your research

for you. The fact that you are not satisfied with the process is one thing (and your right) -- the fact that you don't appear to know what the process is is another (and in my opinion, your responsibility)

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Response to edhopper (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 11:38 AM

5. It is time for truth in government statutes to be drafted as a statement of principle for our nation

If and when Dems regain control of the Senate I want to see statutory language making it grounds for immediate suspension/dismissal for any elected or appointed government official to refuse to honor a lawful subpeona, as well as language barring these persons from ever holding any elected or appointed office again. Any official that is shown to have lied in an official capacity or commits perjury while in office should be immediately removed and barred from further government employment.

Simply shutting up and letting Congress steer the car would in one sense be an abrogation of our civic duty. It is our responsibility to let our elected representatives hear our voices and our opinions. It is their responsibility to listen and then make an informed decision.

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Response to edhopper (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 11:41 AM

6. It's time to stop lecturing Pelosi & pretending we know better than she does what to do

and when to do it. I trust her and I read of many who laud her when she jumps through their hoops and condemn her when she doesn't.

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Response to elocs (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 03:00 PM

9. Thank you

Last edited Wed Oct 9, 2019, 04:07 PM - Edit history (1)

You notice that the same people who insisted Pelosi didn't want to impeach and would never do it are now constantly harping on her for not impeaching the way they think she should be doing it?

They can't criticize her anymore for not impeaching, but that doesn't stop them from finding other reasons to try to beat up on her.

The constant criticism and second guessing make me suspicious about what there really trying to accomplish here.

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Response to elocs (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 04:07 PM

11. so when Pelosi stated publicly that Barr lied to congress and so far she seems to feel that is ok

as nothing has happen to Barr? What are we to think? Why have so many trump officials simply refuse to comply with subpoenas? Like I asked and no one yet has offered, who has been held accountable to date?

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Response to beachbumbob (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 04:23 PM

12. When Eric Holder defied a subpoena, what happened to him?

https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2014/10/judge-declines-to-hold-holder-in-contempt-196650

"A federal judge has declined a House committee's bid to have Attorney General Eric Holder held in contempt of court and perhaps even jailed for failing to turn over documents related to the Justice Department' s response to Operation Fast and Furious."

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Response to elocs (Reply #12)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 04:31 PM

13. Past Attorney General Went Unpunished for Contempt

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/12/past_attorney_general_went_unpunished_for_contempt_140307.html

"WASHINGTON -- Can Attorney General William Barr thumb his nose at Congress and get away with it? Can the nation's top lawman refuse to honor a House Judiciary Committee subpoena for an unredacted version of special counsel Robert Mueller's report and not pay a penalty?

In 2012, then-Attorney General Eric Holder did just that. Holder defied a congressional subpoena to furnish documents about Operation "Fast and Furious," a program to attempt to trace gun trafficking along the southwest border that went awry. The House held Holder in contempt, but since Holder declined to indict himself, the controversy faded. Holder resigned in 2015.

"Congress can't enforce their own contempt charges; all they can do is give notice to the attorney general that they would like it enforced, and Eric Holder never enforced it against himself," observed Mark Harkins, a senior fellow at the Georgetown University Government Affairs Institute. Harkins doesn't expect Barr to charge himself, either.

Stanford law professor Michael McConnell wrote in The Washington Post about the parallels between Barr and Holder. The Obama administration said disclosing information about executive decision-making would "inhibit the candor" of officials inside the administration. An assistant attorney general falsely told Congress the Obama administration was unaware of Fast and Furious -- a claim the administration had to pull back -- and Holder said he would provide the subpoenaed documents only if the committee agreed to close the investigation. Next, as far as Holder was concerned, nothing happened. "The Obama administration ran out the clock. Holder never complied with the subpoena and went unpunished for the contempt," McDonnell wrote."

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