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Wed Oct 9, 2019, 05:12 AM

Trump world is getting excited about a report from this guy Solomon.

He is saying that the Ukrainians were already investigating Hunter Biden's company when the call took place. I don't think that really changes anything from the transcript. The funds are being withheld; Zelinsky begs for antitank weapons, and Trump immediately states that he wants them to investigate the Bidens. If somebody robs a bank, and it turns out they didn't need the money, that doesn't make them innocent.

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Reply Trump world is getting excited about a report from this guy Solomon. (Original post)
RDANGELO Oct 9 OP
Hortensis Oct 9 #1
Laura PourMeADrink Oct 9 #7
Hortensis Oct 9 #15
ashredux Oct 9 #2
gordianot Oct 9 #3
UpInArms Oct 9 #4
Roland99 Oct 9 #5
UpInArms Oct 9 #14
grantcart Oct 9 #11
dalton99a Oct 9 #12
Maraya1969 Oct 9 #6
RDANGELO Oct 9 #8
Laura PourMeADrink Oct 9 #9
Celerity Oct 9 #10
Laura PourMeADrink Oct 9 #16
Celerity Oct 9 #19
Hortensis Oct 9 #17
Hortensis Oct 9 #18
certainot Oct 9 #13
Celerity Oct 9 #20

Response to RDANGELO (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 05:53 AM

1. RW spin/lie. Trump first asked Ukraine months before the famous call

to manufacture a fake scandal against the Democratic candidate he fears most. Events since suggest Ukraine did not comply.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 06:39 AM

7. I have wondered why they didn't. At first I thought..

Ok...this is gonna be good . Ukraine stood up to him. But then their prez acted like Trump's bitch, lying for him. Seems like it would have been easy for them to come up with something? Even if there was the slightest glimmer of truth trump could have spun it.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 08:46 AM

15. Yes. Biden's well known for his integrity, and the world press

was on the scene all through 2014-2016 when this was supposed to be happening. It's not exactly a new story, and its entirety was Hunter's unseemly acceptance of the position, for which the company got to brag about having "a Biden" on the board.

Bottom line, Ukraine couldn't have come up with even a glimmer of truth that would help Trump because the truth shows Biden to be an honest, competent statesman. Something Trump can't imagine and can't use.

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Response to RDANGELO (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 06:23 AM

2. Unlikely ... doubt this.

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Response to RDANGELO (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 06:30 AM

3. The question is do they believe the lies?

Are they even aware they are in the presence of lies? You cannot reason with people in that state. When you lose sense of right or wrong you are in the realm of sanity and insanity (legal not psychological). This is no longer politics it is a lynch mob eventually they are going to want blood.

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Response to RDANGELO (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 06:33 AM

4. John Solomon has already been exposed as a hack

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Response to Roland99 (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 08:28 AM

14. Nicely put together at your link, roland

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Response to UpInArms (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 07:32 AM

11. +1

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Response to UpInArms (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 07:49 AM

12. Trump's favorite "investigative reporter" has as much credibility as Jacob Wohl

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Response to RDANGELO (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 06:37 AM

6. If they were already investigating why did 45 ask them to investigate? And why didn't the president

tell him they were already investigating if 45 didn't know?

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 06:41 AM

8. Right - It doesn't match up with anything that has already taken place.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 06:44 AM

9. Yes. Something's fishy. Think press should

dig into this more. Timeline/motive.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 07:24 AM

10. +10000

the entire thing is a shitshow


The Daily Beast has a decent article on some of the newer events.


Inside Ukraine’s ‘Audit’ of Hunter Biden Company Investigation

https://www.thedailybeast.com/behind-ukraine-reopening-investigation-into-hunter-biden-company

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Response to Celerity (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 08:55 AM

16. Interesting. Will need to read a couple more times

To get all these Ukrainian players straight in my mind

This one paragraph did stand out though...

The most criticized past prosecutor general of Ukraine, Viktor Shokin, did not push for the investigation of the Burisma Group, so by 2016 the case was effectively in limbo. Vice President Joe Biden insisted on the dismissal of Viktor Shokin.


If Shokin wasn't actively pursuing Burisma why would Biden call for his removal.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:42 AM

19. Biden (and most all of the West) want him out because he was not doing his job of prosecuting

corruption at any real level. The UK was pissed because he (Shokin) bollocksed up their investigation into the Burisma founder (who is a bad apple) Mykola Zlochevsky (not to be confused the current Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky.) Zlochevsky is/was involved in a series of corrupt deals and relationships with multiple Ukrainian regimes and ex presidents, including the one right before Zelensky, Petro Poroshenko (Burisma was giving Poroshenko and his cronies free petrol for their businesses.)

The sacked prosecutor, Shokin, is turning to the US RW in an attempt to rehabilitate his reputation. He is now using John Solomon (ex of the Hill and the chief shit-stirring RW journo in all this) to claim that he WAS investigating Burisma and Zlochevsky and was just starting on Hunter Biden (and Biden's partner, Devon Archer) when he was fired. It is bullshit. Ukraine is a horrid cesspool of corruption and political cutthroats and organised crime. God only knows what dregs the RW will drag out of that swamp to smear any and all Democrats, Biden especially. Solomon is already saying that the Clintons had dirt on Biden over Hunter and Burisma and would have used it if he had tried to run against her in 2016. Total RW conspiracy theory, obviously, but Devin Nunes is all over Fox and the rest of the RW sites and shows really pushing this line now, saying it is going to end Biden's campaign. He is unstable, unintelligent, and evil, just like all the Rethugs and MAGATs, with Rump himself at the top of that list.


another article on Skokin that shows his claims about being sacked for going after Burisma to be rubbish:

Viktor Shokin: The inside story on Ukraine’s ‘very good’ prosecutor at centre of Trump scandal

Donald Trump said Ukraine’s former chief prosecutor was an honest, wronged man, fired after Joe Biden tried to shut down an investigation into his son’s gas company. In Kiev, Oliver Carroll speaks to people who know Viktor Shokin, and finds a different story

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/viktor-shokin-ukraine-prosecutor-trump-biden-hunter-joe-investigation-impeachment-a9147001.html

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:02 AM

17. Justsecurity.org has a pretty comprehensive timeline.

Giuliani has ties to corrupt elements in and out of Ukraine's government and was pushing long before 2019 for the government to manufacture scandals against Democrats, back in 2016-2017 against Hillary Clinton mainly.

Biden's name first shows up on this one in late 2018 (as Trump's already concerned about the 2020 election). Second mention is March 2019, when Ukraine obliges by opening investigations.

Late 2018 — Two Soviet-born Florida businessmen, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, arrange a Skype call between Giuliani and Shokin, according to an investigation by the nonprofit Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) published in BuzzFeed News. The two businessmen also connect Giuliani with then-Prosecutor General Lutsenko. Giuliani invites Lutsenko to his office in New York, a meeting they arrange for January.

Lutsenko told the LA Times that he had numerous conversations with Guiliani on the phone. He also tells the paper that Giuliani pressed him repeatedly to open an investigation on the Bidens and Burisma, even though Lutsenko had seen no evidence of legal wrongdoing.


March 2019 – Ukraine prosecutor general Lutsenko opens two investigations—one into the 2016 U.S. presidential election and a second into Burisma and Biden.

Following his meetings with Giuliani, prosecutor general Yuriy Lutsenko announces he is opening two investigations.

“The decision to reopen the investigation into Burisma was made … by the current Ukrainian prosecutor general [Lutsenko], who had cleared Hunter Biden’s employer more than two years ago. The announcement … was seen in some quarters as an effort by the prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, to curry favor from the Trump administration for his boss and ally, the incumbent president,” the New York Times reported (in May 2019).


https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:14 AM

18. Because the first one found Biden acted appropriately?

It was opened by the previous corrupt Poroshenko administration and closed by the next administration of a new anti-corruption president Zelenskyy, although Lutsenko worked under both.

May 16, 2019 – Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Lutsenko tells Bloomberg News that he has “no evidence of wrongdoing” by either of the Bidens and that neither Hunter Biden nor Burisma were the focus of any current investigation. He said he planned to give U.S. authorities information about Burisma board payments, so that the U.S. could check whether Hunter Biden had paid taxes on his income, though there were no restrictions in Ukraine on how much a company could pay to its board members.


Trump says what works on porous brains, truth or rationality irrelevant. That first Ukraine investigation found no wrongdoing. Ignore and call for investigation. Is there more to it?

Of course the "allegation is the crime" is a standard Republican tactic. Allege crime, call for "investigation" into crime, implantation of smear accomplished. It can't ever be removed from people's minds. Any actual investigation is used reinforce the lie over months and even years, and when no wrongdoing is found that will prove that the investigation was corrupted and the guilt of the target.

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Response to RDANGELO (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 07:59 AM

13. saw somewhere where soloman got all this started, limbaugh was selling it at least in

june.

the kremlin feedss guys like corsi and soloman, they put something out in the rw rags, then limbaugh, trumps friend and dinner and golf neighbor, turns it into buzz and well known fact

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Response to certainot (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:52 AM

20. Solomon's a skilful master disinfo agent, he is dangerous insomuch as he uses so-called 'mainstream'

bona fides (AP (he was their Washington Bureau Asst. Chief), WaPo, Center for Public Integrity, The Hill, etc) to push his claptrap. He is streets beyond wackos like Corsi.

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