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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump's "Civil War" Nonsense is Ludicrous
Impeachment is a process laid out clearly in the Constitution of the United States. Any Federal officer right up to the President can be impeached by the House of Representatives. If impeachment is successful that officer faces a trial in the Senate, where a 2/3 vote is required to remove the officer from his or her job.
Nothing could be more American or more patriotic. Impeachment is built into our Constitution, to ensure that a President or other officer of the federal government cannot commit "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" with impunity. Congress is a separate branch of our government, equal to the other two branches, and has its own set of responsibilities under the Constitution. Among those is the power to impeach.
An Impeachment will not cause a Civil War. It is just our government acting as it is supposed to do - acting according to the document that lays out how our government will operate.
So, be quiet, President Trump. Plan your defense against the charges that might be laid in an impeachment. Stop threatening our nation for doing what the Constitution charges it to do.
That'd be great, thanks.
Runningdawg
(4,496 posts)I see civil war as a very real possibility. These hillbillies have been planning it for the last 165 years. Trump has been encouraging this since he announced his candidacy. There have been many mentions of the deep state, coups and other violence. It won't be like the last one, this one will have no boundaries and no defined troops. If you think it's not a possibility let me remind you the people who trained Tim Mcveigh are still active in OK, stronger than ever before and there are more like them in every state.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,435 posts)They haven't bought all those AR-15's just for show.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)It's impossible to underestimate right wingers. No matter how little you think of them, you're always off the mark.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)A well oiled military machine takes discipline, organization, fitness, training, skill sets, willingness to follow orders, long days and short nights, hardship to name just a few
Civil war formed by the far right militia... in their dreams
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)They have families, businesses, jobs and they aren't going to throw that away.
I do think we will see an increase in right wing domestic terrorism.
The end of Trump's reign will push some unknown number McVeighs over the edge.
Hopefully they won't be as ambitious as McVeigh.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)Itll be easier to just keep on planning for another 165 years so you can really iron out the kinks.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)But we have someone who is not going to go quietly when it is time to leave. He will work on tearing this country apart. The GOP and especially Trump are good at only one thing, divide and conquer. When he tries to tell red America that blue America is "punishing" it for electing him, it may well resonate.
I fear that we will see pressures to split in two that haven't been felt since 1860.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)already done so. However, it will not be anything like a "Civil War."
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Secession moves all start out as nonviolence.
Would the blue states be willing to send troops to the red states to keep them in the Union? Maybe not this time.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Give me a break, OK?
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)in Trump's words. If things get worse for him, you might find it, too. The current set of remarks is only the beginning.
Assume we have a Democratic President being sworn in on January 20, 2021. Do you really think that Trump and the hard right wing will cheer him/her on? If Trump manages to limp into still being the nominal president by that day, he will set the tone by refusing to attend the inauguration.
He will offer red states the promise of the end of equal marriage, the ability to keep any firearm that a person wants to own, a halt to abortions, and relief from wealth taxes to any part of the US that wishes to break free of what he will call "Democrat tyranny".
How many will be able to resist that in red America?
I admire your hopefulness, and would like to share it, but I cannot at this point. Maybe if we see Trump slink back into wherever he crawled out from under after taking a deal where he would resign in exchange for a pardon that could happen, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
The asshole is nothing but trouble. He thought he could build his brand with birtherism and running for president, then he got a long taste of having incredible power. He's not going to give that up easily.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)He's just not.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)He's way more popular in places that I travel through. There are still Trump election signs out there from the last time, still plenty of bumper stickers, caps, etc.
Imagine a Democratic President calling for reparations, weapons confiscations, and taxpayer-funded abortions, then imagine how red staters will feel about that. Also imagine Trump telling them that they don't have to accept it.
When you and I were kids, a new President had something called a "honeymoon" period, where the newly elected leader had a shot at getting an agenda through, perhaps modified by compromise, within a "first hundred days", because the losing party respected the notion that the new Chief Executive had a "mandate".
Today's honeymoons are measured in milliseconds. It can properly be said that Trump is perceived to have never had one, there being calls for his impeachment the day after the election. Right-wingers will certainly recall it that way, and they are not about to give a millimeter to a President Biden or President Warren.
Also, when Barack Obama left the White House, while he did say that he would speak out against what he saw as injustices (being deliberately vague on where they would come from) during the coming years, he sat back and let things unfold. I have absolutely no illusions that Trump would do anything like that. And that's no matter whether he's out by resignation, impeachment, or losing an election.
He's out to stir shit like we've never seen in our lifetimes.
Caliman73
(11,694 posts)A civil war requires planning and administration. It requires territory and logistics. Trump is a narcissist and you are right, he is stirring things up to make himself appear more important than he is, but he is not interested in being the president of a "confederacy". He isn't even interested in being president of the US, he just wants the accolades and benefits of the office without doing any of the work. Trump will be a malcontent and will likely be toxic for the foreseeable future, but he will never want to do enough work to actually lead anything.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)to face treason charges. Maybe you need more evidence, but there's enough out there for me.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)ooky
(8,889 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)all of the places that still support Trump wholeheartedly will gladly accept his removal from office, either by impeachment or electoral defeat? I wish we lived in that nation.
ooky
(8,889 posts)seceding anymore than them grabbing their guns and start shooting liberals. I think they are more bark than bite.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)but they will have Trump goading them to secession, count on it.
He has never accepted defeat gracefully, ever. Why would he start now?
ooky
(8,889 posts)Republicans in general would accept defeat; rather, they would dig in and spin up more lies. Accepting defeat for them would mean allowing themselves to be swept in 2020 and they are calculating that they have a better chance of avoiding that by just continuing to make up stories.
treestar
(82,383 posts)In 1865 you could start an army. But a nuclear arsenal they won't have the manpower and brains to start. Even a modern army is not something they could make up.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,781 posts)Seceding means no more blue state $$$.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)are for military base spending. They'd fund their own bases, attempting to take over official US installations. That's how it went down the last time.
Only then, the North was willing to fight. Are the folks in blue states willing to do that this time around? We have a military that's not been able to win a war in nearly 75 years, other than little stuff like Grenada. Who's the blue states' General Grant?
Remember, Putin will secretly support any government that Trump tries to form in a C.S.A 2.0, that's part of the plan.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)Have you ever heard of a cult member rising to leadership after the founding cult leader fails?
Cult members are psychological followers who need someone to be their messiah to save them. They obviously dont believe they can save themselves, so it follows that they dont believe they can save others, or that they even entertain such ideas.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)He will claim to have been railroaded, and there is no doubt that he will advocate primary challenges against any GOP Senator who "turned" on him.
He has the power to do enormous damage to this country, both in or out of office.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)both nationally and internationally. I doubt well ever be as powerful as we were again. At least as long as we dont have a dictator who is determined to conquer the earth (PNAC https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century ).
I hope we can make the effort to change. Its time for the crap about countries being Superpowers to end. We have to start thinking outside of the military superiority box.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)And that's when he thinks he's getting his way. Going against Trump brings out his most evil side, and there will be Putin cheering him on from the sidelines.
Being as the US military hasn't won a war in nearly 75 years, they're already post-superpower in practice. Imagine a C.S.A 2.0 military, poached from our existing one, that would love to do anything necessary to win.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)malaise
(267,825 posts)That is all
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Flaleftist
(3,473 posts)acts of domestic terrorism, like bombers, mass shooters, possibly political assassinations.
As far as any government troops fighting each other, I don't see it. As far as any significant amount of civilians gathering with arms anywhere to fight government forces, I doubt it.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)That is far different from a Civil War, though. It is deplorable, and such violence is carried out by deplorable people. It is not organized, though, nor are there groups of villains going around shooting government officials and trying to overthrow government.
struggle4progress
(118,041 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Back in 1962, four high school kids in my Southern California home town took up strange instruments and began picking and grinning with some old-time music. I was a clarinet player, and somehow ended up with a hand-me-down 5-string banjo and a book on playing it by Pete Seeger. A trumpet player took up the mandolin and the first-chair trombone player learned flat-picking style on the guitar. The band's tuba player played a washtub bass we put together. We had experience singing close harmony from a barbershop quartet we had, so it all came together pretty easily.
It wasn't long before we were entertaining audiences in our local area and surrounding towns. We were all pretty talented musicians, and picked things up quickly. Soon enough, we were a full-on bluegrass band. But, then we graduated and went off in new directions, and that was the end of that, although I took that banjo with me for many years after that and sat in here and there with it in other groups.
3catwoman3
(23,820 posts)You have just impressed the heck out of me.
When I want to yank people's chains, I tell them I was a semi-professional dancer for a while. In the early 80's, I was in a clog dancing group in the upper peninsula of Michigan (yy husband was flying tankers out of K.I.Sawyer AFB at the time). Our group used to go to folk festivals to perform. Sometimes we got paid - not very much, but paid, nonetheless.
If you are getting paid, you are not an amateur, right?
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)I played with many of them from time to time. I was an advanced amateur on a few instruments and as a vocalist. That was enough to let me sit in or fill in with many actual professional musicians. I even got paid from time to time to do that, but I was always aware that I was not at a true professional level. If a local orchestra needed a second oboe player, I could do that. If the tenor soloist for a Messiah performance suddenly got ill, I could step up and sing the aria. If the local Gilbert and Sullivan troupe needed a woodwind player in their pit orchestra who didn't insist on being paid, I could sit in and do a credible job.
I know professional musicians, but never was one. I sure had fun, though, making music with other people and never embarrassed myself.
TheBlackAdder
(28,076 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,435 posts)On the MAGATS?
The GOP crookedness in some of these small towns would make Mayor Daley blush. It's worse now than it has ever been because most local newspapers are dead and the focus of the rest is on the big cities.
Runningdawg
(4,496 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,076 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 30, 2019, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)
.
When the National Guard seizes the equipment, the sheriffs will be just holding their dicks.
These sales just removed the warehousing of equipment at AG depots and armories.
These yahoo sheriffs will be in for a rude awakening if shit really hits the fan.
.
TheRealNorth
(9,435 posts)So that may be true in states with Democratic governors. But what happens in the states with the Republican governors?
TheBlackAdder
(28,076 posts).
It won't be up to some elected local yahoo, who is acting as Little Hitler.
.
TheRealNorth
(9,435 posts)Do not underestimate the bloodlust of the MAGATS. They also don't seem particularly horrified with Trump's suggestion of shooting woman and children at the border.
TheBlackAdder
(28,076 posts).
Governors are held to a higher level than a local sheriff who wants to be the ruler of a fiefdom.
.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Trump called for volunteers,
I went and got my gun,
First snowflake I saw coming,
I dropped my gun and run,
It was all about that
2nd Civil War.
Why are you running,
Are you afraid to die?
The reason that I'm running
Is because I cannot fly
It was all about that
2nd Civil War.
My MAGA hat flew off my head
I thought that I was dead
I give my feet good exercise
As I began to dread
Having started that
2nd Civil War
At war with women blacks and gays
My belly bucking as I run away
It was all about that
2nd Civil War.
re-written by me
JohnnyRingo
(18,581 posts)A quick look at Trump's 40% base reveals a majority of Medicare recipients who have to wear an oxygen tank and walk with a cane. At best, there are a large number of aging Vietnam War vets who have to stay up late to catch Hannity on TV.
This civil war may well amount to an increase in cantankerous letters to the editor.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,435 posts)They still have plenty of young folks to carry weapons. Our advantage in military-aged men and women is not that large (maybe 2:1) Furthermore, numbers won't matter as much if they have more and better weapons and know how to use them.
Look at the first Civil War. The North had more men and (generally) better weaponry, but it took about 2 years before we had a cavalry (which was critical in the collection of military intelligence at that time) and leadership that was as good as the South's.
Wars are not always won by the side with the larger numbers.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Too fat, too lazy, too used to their recliners and teefee with fux news
Enoki33
(1,584 posts)be isolated violent incidents aimed at inciting further action that will also be doomed to failure. That old adage about fooling some of the people some of the time.....etc. also applies to his staunchest supporters despite their ignorant stupidity. It is going to be an even more dangerous time for PoC, but our democracy and nation will rise to the occasion.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)More's the pity. But there's no organized military force out there on the side of a civil war. Just a bunch of talk.
Runningdawg
(4,496 posts)Not the wash-out wannabes. Guys on active duty, some in the upper ranks. Those are the ones that got CAUGHT. They are like cockroaches, when you see one in the light of day, you better believe there are thousands more in the dark.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Show me links to demonstrate that it's a big problem. Thanks.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)any numbers for this. I need those before I consider it a significant thing. So...?
Runningdawg
(4,496 posts)Some of us have a life. I am not here to jump when you demand it.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)Then get mad when people call you out and ask for proof. It's YOUR job to back up what you state, not ours.
Runningdawg
(4,496 posts)TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)I think it's equally ludicrous when it comes from our side.
People on both sides grossly overestimate the willingness of a bunch of yahoos to put their lives on the line for what they believe in. We're talking about the same kind of people who hide behind fake profiles online to make racist remarks and threats.
There are individuals who are a threat, no doubt, as we've seen on numerous occasions. There is not, however, going to be some mass uprising of hicks in the sticks.
The difference, of course, is that our side does it out of genuine concern. Trump does it hoping to jack up the rubes.
spanone
(135,636 posts)Kaleva
(36,147 posts)It won't be much of a civil war. Very few from either side will show up.
Response to MineralMan (Original post)
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