"I can't talk to you...there is no use in talking to people like you"

[essme]

We went out to dinner tonight, and sat at the bar. An older gentleman came in to sit at the bar and watch the college football game. Seemed like a nice fella-I asked him who he was pulling for.

The conversation was pretty normal ("you fly fish up here?" type thing) until the 3rd quarter...somehow he managed to make a comment about "most music librarians are gay" complete with the limp wrist hand gesture. I am a librarian, so I just laughed and said, "well, the ones I know are wonderful people."

He then made a comment about "liberals." Now, I am paying attention. He actually told me that I need to read. I am a librarian.

Finally, I said--- "so, you have a PhD, and are retired....you have told me that I need "to read." Tell me... how is it that you voted for a failed reality show host who is currently married to a former soft porn model?" He started freaking out and said "she was a model." I told him that he was free to google image her on her smart phone while we were sitting there. His hands were shaking, and he said "There is no point in talking to people like you."

We paid and left.

Incredibly sad. Heartbreaking.

This is what FAUX "news" has done to folks that were probably smart, articulate, educated, interesting people.

[Atticus]

1. Thank you. The bastards need to have their noses rubbed in the mess they have made! nt

[essme]

3. This guy was really old

I should have picked up on the "gay" comment- but, my husband and I were drinking, and watching the game--- I had some exciting news about work (I met an author's son- and she might be able to visit my library).......

I actually felt bad for him. I am not kidding. His hands were shaking when I said, "go ahead...google image her. You are an adult."

[Atticus]

5. I understand what you are saying and I commend you for your concern, but those shaking

hands marked a ballot for "it" and are prepared to do it again.

[not_the_one]

16. you should have suggested the lesbian photo

since he was so "interested" in the gay...

[tblue37]

33. You should have called up the images on your phone without saying anything about them

and just showed them to him.

[essme]

37. Well, this is embarrassing

I teach technology to students all day. I have an iPad, a great computer, a chrome book, a kindle.....and (kid you not) a flip phone.

I drew the line at smart phones because I don't want technology to take over my entire life. I do not text.

I know. If it makes you feel better, the middle schoolers laugh at my phone. It's a great ice breaker with them.

I do know how to use one.

[tblue37]

39. I don't have a cell phone. I don't want *everyone* to have me on such a short leash. nt

[essme]

41. Exactly!

Every time I think of buying a smart phone, so person that I am not even close too (think "co-workers&quot says "I can't text you!!"

And I think "exactly," and go home and charge up my flip.

I like having my little phone so I can talk to my folks and my sister....and it's in my car in case I need help. I am going to be 56 next year, and am slowing down a little.

[NJCher]

58. smart phone excuses

so person that I am not even close too (think "co-workers" says "I can't text you!!"

Hah, I am similar. I teach tech stuff, too, and have the same feelings regarding the smartphone. When they say the bit about I can't text you, I say well, then, it sounds like a smartphone is a convenience to you, so if you want me to have one, how about you pay for it?"

I haven't had any takers on that in years.

Finally I got one--someone is paying for my smart phone. So now what I do is say, oh so sorry, the memory is so limited on this cell phone that I can't open your picture/read your text/whatever. Except for the person who's paying; I do answer his texts.

Oh and the others--well, some have gone so far as to print out instructions for me to get around the memory issue so at that point I plead "I'm stupid about phones."

[Xipe Totec]

2. Another L.I.V.I.D - Low Information Voter In Denial. nt

[ms liberty]

29. Oh. That's good. Can we use it?

[Xipe Totec]

34. Sure; use it. nt

[proud patriot]

49. thanks i'm totally using that

[Karadeniz]

4. Wish I could always think as quickly as you do.

[essme]

6. I was not thinking quickly-- trust me

I am a slow thinker. But, I normally refer to Trump as a "twice divorced, four times bankrupt, failed reality show host married to a porn star."

It just rolls off my lips now--- it's just how I refer to him.

[mucifer]

28. he actually wasn't a failed reality show star. he had great ratings for years

that is his true talent and it's soooo evil. It's how he and his republican thugs got away with destroying our country.

[essme]

38. I need to find out the stats on this one, but

my understanding is that his show was either canceled or in the toilet on ratings.

[Farmer-Rick]

47. He actually was a failed reality show star

Only in the first year was he in the top 10. Then he dropped to 11th in the 2nd year. It was Mark Burnett the executive producer that got it in the top 10 in the first season. He is the father of reality shows with Survivors in its 32 season.

Apprentice and spin offs only had 6 seasons combined ending in 75th place. That is Not success for a reality show.

[NCLefty]

57. Yes, but he had 6 business bankruptcies and 3 marriages. He stole charity money for his family!

He cheated on his wife as she was giving birth.

He lost a billion dollars over ten years.

The fact that he was a terrible human being and a business failure was there for all to see long before he ever opened his fat mouth about Barrack Obama's citizenship.

[guillaumeb]

7. That he has a PhD tells me one thing.

That he is presumably competent in his field. And even that presumption of competence in a particular field has no evidence for it.

Ben Carson is the perfect example of this autistique savant type.

[sharedvalues]

9. 90%+ of ppl with PhDs are liberals

Don’t even worry about this one

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

14. That he brought up the fact he has a PhD is very telling.

On some level he was very threatened by you, and felt the need to "one up" you. A good line of follow up would be to ask what his degree is in, where did he get it, and what was the subject of his dissertation. All in a polite manner, of course. Just because a person has a PhD in chemistry doesn't make him an authority on the climate.

[essme]

23. We actually were talking about universities

We were watching a college football game, and I was wondering why he chose one team over another (I liked both teams that were playing, and was going to be happy either way). That led us into a discussion about where we went (undergrad and grad) ....

So, when he made his comment on climate change, that's when I said "your degrees are in music, and mine are history, religious studies and library science....neither of us are qualified to have a primary opinion on climate change- neither of us are experts."

That is pretty much an accepted stance for people with graduate, particularly terminal graduate degrees--- we understand our area of expertise, and respect others.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

54. Your reply was both accurate and courteous.

Try telling someone you got a BJ at the University of Missouri School of Journalsm. The typical response is, "I didn't even have to go to college to get one of those,,,"

J-School really has to change the title of their degree.

[essme]

42. Ben Carson is an excellent example

Thank you

[sharedvalues]

8. "Republicans call you 'useful idiot', you know. Dems are Party of working people"

I like that line

[Aussie105]

10. I'm surprised

that some people have NOT seen the photos of Melania as a 'model'. From the days when she was 'modelling' the nude female form.

I'm guessing the word 'model' means different things to different people. It seems to cover everything from 'imported sex worker' to catwalk model wearing expensive designer clothes.

[3catwoman3]

17. Her "modeling" is, at best, soft porn.

And that’s being kind.

[MyMission]

11. We "liberals" tend to care about and feel bad for people

Which is what makes us decent human beings while they are repugnant assholes.

Your humanity is why there's no use talking to people like them! They generally don't put themselves in positions to have conversations. They lecture, judge, or they have a rally... they're great, 45 is great, repugs are great, straight white people are great. Rah rah, blah blah. Anyone different is judged and determined to be "very bad people" We know the truth. They're the very bad people!

It sucks when we have to butt heads with them. I want to think some are poor misguided souls, but as time goes on I've realize they're mostly idiots. A PhD means he has a higher level of education, doesn't mean he can't be conned or manipulated. There are a lot of educated folks who are idiots, and don't realize they've been conned.

It is sad and heartbreaking. But don't feel bad about feeling bad for him. Be proud of your humanity. It's what sets you (us) apart from the haters!

[Joe941]

12. FNC is the enemy of america.

[Pepsidog]

13. As committed to the real facts as we know them to be, incredibly millions of people are just as

committed to believe the absurd conspiracy theories of Fix, Hanity, Limbaugh and the rest of the crazy righties. We are going to have to vote like our lives depend on it because our way of life is at stake.

[yaesu]

15. I love playing mind games with those idiots, I would have kept at him until he stoked out

but, with nothing but empty space between their ears it may take a while.

[lpbk2713]

18. You brought out his inner kid.

You did good.

[Grammy23]

19. I still can't believe the people who say Melania is such a "classy First Lady".

I think I can safely say they’ve never seen the photos of her standing on the wing of tRump’s plane in a thong and bra top, wielding a gun or a semi-nude of her on the plane. They would have had a stroke if Michelle Obama had photos like that in her portfolio. Even Laura Bush would have had some explaining to do. But these folks can say with a straight face that Melania is classy. Well, maybe she is now because she doesn’t need to earn a living doing soft porn any more. She found her Sugar Daddy and cut a deal. But oh, what a price she has paid. A deal with the devil himself, ya might say.

[3catwoman3]

40. The fact that these photos did not and...

...do not horrify religious women continues to baffle me.

[Farmer-Rick]

48. It really was more then porno shots

The nudes of her fingering herself and reinacting lesbian sex are straight up porn. But she was a known escort in Slovania and the US when she met the orange bafoon. They met through Epstein. And Epstein surrounded himself with paid escorts.

She is a Slovenian sex worker who married Traitor Trump because she had compromising information on him and Trump was trying to keep her quiet.

The "I don't really care. Do U?" coat really did mean what it said. Trump can torture little girls in front of her (and probably did) and she wouldn't care as long as she got some money. (Money means God loves you right? No matter what you did to get it.)

[No Vested Interest]

52. There's seems to be some kind of campaign to bolster Melania as classy...

I get occasional postings from some right-wing friends attesting to "our beautiful classy First Lady", and urging that the posting be "shared", etc.

[Duppers]

20. "What Faux....

"news" has done to folks that were probably smart..."

Hold on. I've seen dumbass PhDs and I'd never assume anyone who willingly submitted themselves to Faux brainwashing would be smart. Never.

Other than that, thumbs up for your post and for doing a great job putting the guy in his place.

[roamer65]

21. His homophobia means he's more than likely a repressed gay or bisexual.

Must be a horrible life not to be able to...well...you know.

[DFW]

22. Translation into English

"There is no point in telling me the truth. I don't want to hear the truth. That is why I watch Fox."

[cwydro]

24. I don't think in my life I've had anyone talk about "music librarians." How peculiar.

Cool story.

[essme]

25. I AM a librarian

Of course other folks might think that is "peculiar." However, I am friends with over a dozen of them.

I had to work one year as a music cataloger at a large state university.

[cwydro]

26. I found it odd that some random guy at a bar would make a comment about music librarians.

I worked in technical services in a library for several years, so I have several librarian friends.

No one has ever brought up music librarians to me. I’m surprised this random dude even knew such a job existed.

Btw, “gay” and “wonderful people” are not mutually exclusive.

[essme]

31. His PhD is in music education

We were watching a college game....and started talking about where we got our degrees.

Obviously, "gay" and "wonderful people" are not mutually exclusive. I only made the comment offhand because the game was getting ready to be a 12 year shocker-- and my husband and I were engrossed in the action on TV. I was attempting to be polite to a stranger- as you do.

You know, I always laugh when I see your "cool story, bro" comments. This wasn't your first by any stretch of the imagination. If you can't follow along a simple story of a bar conversation between two people that attended graduate school and have stuff in common, then please just hide this thread.

[cwydro]

44. Lol.

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. And yet, before you posted, essme had already noted his PhD was in music

so he would have known music librarians. For that matter, I know someone who is a music librarian.

Maybe you ought to read the whole thread before leaping in with "cool story"?

[Hortensis]

27. You talked nice also, established a pleasant relationship before

his aggression started. No doubt growing as he realized you were one of "them." Guessing that your words got to him so badly may suggest the foundation of his conviction is weakened. "People like" him can't read any quality journals or even fiction these days without assaults on his beliefs.

We know some trumpsters whose beliefs required abandoning their own intellect and exposure to others. I've tried a number of times to imagine what it's like to be them, but of course I can't really. They're never far from anger, though, and that is understandable.

[essme]

35. Yes! And I am really kicking myself for it

I did not recognize the warning signs before he fell apart. I am usually more socially aware of people's triggers.

This one really bothered me. He genuinely is a nice older fellow, and very smart. I woke up this morning thinking of Lee Atwater, and how the brainwashing of folks has worked well enough to get folks to pay more attention to conspiracy theories.

It seems like we are up against a tidal wave of people that have been conditioned for decades-- How can we change that?

[Hortensis]

43. We've made the same mistake, Essme, with the same regret.

My husband in his late 70s is finally aging out of outdoors activities with people in their middle years, so I especially value his friendship with a very fine sportsman who adjusts by doing more of the schlepping. They don't talk politics, so we vastly underestimated just how extremely reactionary this intelligent, educated man had become. By missing clues, we managed to upset him badly one night (by turning on a nature documentary about South American monkeys!). It wasn't until the next day, when he got up and walked outside alone after quickly eating his breakfast, and stayed there, that we started realizing he was very deeply upset. Apparently even documentaries that avoid almost all mention mention of climate change effects are just more proof of what he fears.

Psychologists say they fear more than we do. Of course the corruption of the world that they imagine is far, far deeper, wider, and more frightening than what we see, explaining a lot. But I'm also wondering if their whole belief construct isn't also threatening to crash down around them. People secure in their beliefs are surprised or irritated when those are contradicted, they don't leap to intense anger. And now even Fox has turned on Trump. Their leader's not a strong, good man at all but a corrupt, dangerous buffoon.

[Farmer-Rick]

51. I really believe the brainwashing begins with religious training.

If you can make someone believe in a magical all powerful being with absolutely no proof then you can make them believe in anything.

I know some people believe in God without falling for Fox or Trump or Big Foot but religion certainly sets the table for believing in baseless ideas.

[SWBTATTReg]

30. It is so amazing that people w/ advanced degrees are seen in a different light (oh, they're ...

intelligent, have a reasonable ability to digest facts etc.), when in fact, their decision making abilities are already handicapped severely. Unfortunately, despite all of the advanced learning, they have failed in the very basic concept of viewing facts and knowledge, and deciding on what's true and what's false.

These people have blinders on full tilt, which means everything they view and see of the daily world in which we live, is tempered by their distorted view of the world.

Sometimes you need to call them down on it. I've done this w/ a good friend of mine who is a reasonably smart retired doctor, who backed down quickly when I challenged him on something he said, who then realized that what I said was in fact, true, vs. what his thinking was.

If you don't deal w/ these people, then how are we able to challenge their false and oftentimes, wrong snapshot of the world in which we live?

[essme]

36. That's partially my fault also

I have a masters- but, also 35 extra hours of grad school....and oh, hello no, I am not going for my PhD.

I think my "blinders" (and that is a great term) are that I hold/ have held folks- particularly those with terminal degrees on a pedestal. I have expected ALL of them to be capable of "higher thinking" skills.

I think *this*....exactly what you wrote...is a starting point. Where do we take it from here?

[vlyons]

32. He exemplifies a closed mind

A mind filled with all sorts of notions and opinions about "other" people, so his ego can feel superior, because he's not gay, liberal, whatever. To admit that some of his opinions might be proven wrong would mean that his ego ain't as swell as he tells himself that it is.

[Blue Owl]

45. Hitch your wagon to Donny's shit star...

...and prepare for disappointment, failure, and resentment!

[Ferrets are Cool]

50. To me they are no better than the Germans who turned a blind eye to the

atrocities committed by Hitler. They are complicit.

[Beartracks]

53. But there IS a lot of point in NOT talking to people like you: DENIAL!

And not having one's conservative head pulled out of the sand.

========

[lastlib]

56. If tRumpers could be reasoned with, they wouldn't be tRumpers.