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Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:00 PM

**Breaking** Trump's communications w foreign leader part of controversial whistleblower complaint

National Security
Trump’s communications with foreign leader are part of whistleblower complaint that spurred standoff between spy chief and Congress, former officials say

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trumps-communications-with-foreign-leader-are-part-of-whistleblower-complaint-that-spurred-standoff-between-spy-chief-and-congress-former-officials-say/2019/09/18/df651aa2-da60-11e9-bfb1-849887369476_story.html

The whistleblower complaint that has triggered a tense showdown between the U.S. intelligence community and Congress involves President Trump’s communications with a foreign leader, according to two former U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

Trump’s interaction with the foreign leader included a “promise” that was regarded as so troubling that it prompted an official in the U.S. intelligence community to file a formal whistleblower complaint with the inspector general for the intelligence community, said the officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

It was not immediately clear which foreign leader Trump was speaking with or what he pledged to deliver, but his direct involvement in the matter has not been previously disclosed. It raises new questions about the president’s handling of sensitive information and may further strain his relationship with U.S. spy agencies. One former official said the communication was a phone call.

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Reply **Breaking** Trump's communications w foreign leader part of controversial whistleblower complaint (Original post)
hlthe2b Sep 18 OP
Freethinker65 Sep 18 #1
hlthe2b Sep 18 #2
dchill Sep 18 #84
DENVERPOPS Sep 19 #127
sandensea Sep 19 #143
TruckFump Sep 18 #3
hlthe2b Sep 18 #4
TruckFump Sep 18 #5
triron Sep 18 #82
Hermit-The-Prog Sep 19 #87
saidsimplesimon Sep 19 #129
Hermit-The-Prog Sep 19 #130
ck4829 Sep 19 #91
Perseus Sep 19 #138
TruckFump Sep 19 #140
gldstwmn Sep 18 #6
ecstatic Sep 18 #19
SayItLoud Sep 18 #24
world wide wally Sep 18 #36
BlancheSplanchnik Sep 18 #66
lagomorph777 Sep 19 #139
LiberalLovinLug Sep 18 #65
Girard442 Sep 18 #7
SergeStorms Sep 18 #31
ck4829 Sep 19 #98
Dennis Donovan Sep 18 #8
hlthe2b Sep 18 #9
Dennis Donovan Sep 18 #12
hlthe2b Sep 18 #14
dalton99a Sep 18 #16
Desert grandma Sep 18 #47
Ilsa Sep 18 #70
GusBob Sep 18 #68
LudwigPastorius Sep 19 #103
lame54 Sep 19 #115
ck4829 Sep 19 #92
superpatriotman Sep 18 #10
ritapria Sep 18 #11
ck4829 Sep 19 #99
BootinUp Sep 18 #13
ecstatic Sep 18 #15
bluestarone Sep 18 #17
gldstwmn Sep 18 #18
mtngirl47 Sep 18 #44
ck4829 Sep 19 #97
zipplewrath Sep 19 #145
hlthe2b Sep 18 #20
Johnny2X2X Sep 18 #21
hlthe2b Sep 18 #23
ck4829 Sep 19 #93
Takket Sep 18 #22
SergeStorms Sep 18 #28
uponit7771 Sep 18 #39
muntrv Sep 18 #67
Leghorn21 Sep 18 #25
SergeStorms Sep 18 #26
malaise Sep 18 #27
hlthe2b Sep 18 #29
malaise Sep 18 #30
panader0 Sep 18 #64
malaise Sep 19 #88
Nevermypresident Sep 18 #38
kentuck Sep 18 #32
ancianita Sep 19 #122
hlthe2b Sep 18 #33
HiloHatti Sep 18 #34
W_HAMILTON Sep 18 #35
flotsam Sep 18 #81
stopdiggin Sep 19 #131
ck4829 Sep 19 #94
Iliyah Sep 18 #37
Gothmog Sep 18 #40
hlthe2b Sep 18 #41
dalton99a Sep 18 #49
SergeStorms Sep 18 #62
DENVERPOPS Sep 19 #132
SergeStorms Sep 19 #141
ck4829 Sep 19 #100
GreenEyedLefty Sep 19 #120
BadgerMom Sep 18 #42
yaesu Sep 18 #43
bluestarone Sep 18 #45
hlthe2b Sep 18 #46
ancianita Sep 18 #50
oasis Sep 18 #60
world wide wally Sep 18 #48
Botany Sep 18 #51
ancianita Sep 18 #52
Botany Sep 18 #56
ancianita Sep 18 #59
Botany Sep 18 #69
ancianita Sep 18 #74
ancianita Sep 18 #63
Webhead Sep 19 #119
ancianita Sep 19 #128
DENVERPOPS Sep 19 #133
Botany Sep 19 #136
reACTIONary Sep 19 #89
Takket Sep 18 #53
ancianita Sep 19 #113
TxVietVet Sep 18 #54
MFM008 Sep 18 #55
LenaBaby61 Sep 18 #57
ck4829 Sep 19 #96
Enoki33 Sep 18 #58
Doodley Sep 18 #78
ck4829 Sep 19 #95
EveHammond13 Sep 18 #61
Fan of Da Bearse Sep 18 #71
Webhead Sep 18 #72
ancianita Sep 18 #75
Webhead Sep 19 #108
ancianita Sep 19 #112
Webhead Sep 19 #117
ancianita Sep 19 #125
Doodley Sep 18 #77
Webhead Sep 19 #124
mudstump Sep 18 #73
Doodley Sep 18 #76
The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 18 #80
Horse with no Name Sep 18 #79
dem4decades Sep 18 #83
triron Sep 18 #85
jeffreyi Sep 18 #86
ck4829 Sep 19 #90
Stuart G Sep 19 #101
hlthe2b Sep 19 #102
Stuart G Sep 19 #105
hlthe2b Sep 19 #104
kentuck Sep 19 #107
muriel_volestrangler Sep 19 #114
hlthe2b Sep 19 #106
hlthe2b Sep 19 #109
DFW Sep 19 #110
flibbitygiblets Sep 19 #126
COLGATE4 Sep 19 #111
bucolic_frolic Sep 19 #116
Vinca Sep 19 #118
hlthe2b Sep 19 #121
hlthe2b Sep 19 #123
ffr Sep 19 #134
hlthe2b Sep 19 #135
rdking647 Sep 19 #137
Farmer-Rick Sep 19 #142
MasonDreams Sep 19 #144
hlthe2b Sep 19 #146

Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:05 PM

1. Paging Lindsey Graham

Actually I do not give a fuck what this asshole thinks about this

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Response to Freethinker65 (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:07 PM

2. Honestly, is there any amount of apparent traitorous behavior they won't excuse?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:58 PM

84. Apparently not. Treason is a profitable endeavor...

...for them. For now.

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Response to Freethinker65 (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:54 PM

127. He didn't get

Lindsey Graham didn't get that round mouth from sucking bananas or popsicles............

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #127)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:35 PM

143. Lip service - Lindsey's one talent.

It sure as hell isn't serving the good people of South Carolina.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:07 PM

3. Betting on Putin.

After all, Trump owes his 2016 "win" to his pal Vlad.

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Response to TruckFump (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:07 PM

4. Yes, that's a good bet.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:08 PM

5. Pretty made in the shade.

Even if I say so myself.

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Response to TruckFump (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:46 PM

82. It's Putty boy for sure.

Trump is a fucking traitor but the media is made up mostly of chickenshits afraid to say it.

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Response to TruckFump (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:08 AM

87. could also be Madman Bone Saw, for the money

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #87)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:57 PM

129. The Saudis are holding the "note"

and rumpie will order our Treasury to pay the "gelt". imo

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Response to saidsimplesimon (Reply #129)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 01:01 PM

130. maybe he promised MBS we'd take Iran after fake attack on refinery

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Response to TruckFump (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:20 AM

91. Good bet

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Response to TruckFump (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 02:41 PM

138. He most probably owes Putin more than the 2016 election

Besides the pee tapes, I bet he owes Putin and Russian oligarchs a ton of money, and also another ton that was "given" to him to buy his loyalty.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #138)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 02:56 PM

140. Only one way to put it...

...Putin's bitch.

Owned lock, stock and barrel. I say he defects to Russia when he loses in 2020.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:09 PM

6. This is bad. It's gotta be Putin.

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:26 PM

19. Either putin or the Saudi prince who murdered Khashoggi. nt

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:31 PM

24. Agree.

I lean towards the prince cause he's got tons of $$$ and already helped bail out the Kushner Devil Building 666 Park Ave.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:51 PM

36. That is my guess too.

I think Trump may have promised him control of our armies

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #36)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:46 PM

66. holy shit.

I don’t like the sound of that.

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #36)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 02:46 PM

139. Not all the armies - just the nukes.

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:45 PM

65. The interpreter?

That's the first thing I thought of

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:09 PM

7. Might as well assume that Trump explicitly pledged allegiance to Putin...

...and act accordingly. It's on him to prove otherwise, given his public behavior.

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Response to Girard442 (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:41 PM

31. Trump, being asked to PROVE something?

Surely, you jest! Trump not only never proves anything, he thumbs his nose at Congress, and has turned the Justice Department into his very own Roy Cohn.

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Response to Girard442 (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:22 AM

98. Indeed

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:10 PM

8. Heads up tomorrow!!

Last edited Thu Sep 19, 2019, 09:37 AM - Edit history (1)

From the same article:

<snip>

The dispute is expected to escalate Thursday when Atkinson is scheduled to appear before the House Intelligence Committee in a classified session closed to the public. The hearing is the latest move by committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) to compel U.S. intelligence officials to disclose the full details of the whistleblower complaint to Congress.

<snip>

The inspector general “determined that this complaint is both credible and urgent,” Schiff said in the statement released Wednesday evening. “The committee places the highest importance on the protection of whistleblowers and their complaints to Congress.”

The complaint was filed with Atkinson’s office on Aug. 12, a date on which Trump was at his golf resort in New Jersey. White House records indicate that Trump had had conversations or interactions with at least five foreign leaders in the preceding five weeks.

Among them was a call with Russian President Vladimir Putin that the White House initiated on July 31.

</snip>



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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:11 PM

9. *MORE**

The complaint was filed with Atkinson’s office on Aug. 12, a date on which Trump was at his golf resort in New Jersey. White House records indicate that Trump had had conversations or interactions with at least five foreign leaders in the preceding five weeks.

Among them was a call with Russian President Vladimir Putin that the White House initiated on July 31. Trump also received at least two letters from North Korean leader Kim Jong Un during the summer, describing them as “beautiful” messages. In June, Trump said publicly that he was opposed to certain CIA spying operations against North Korea. Referring to a Wall Street Journal report that the agency had recruited Kim’s half-brother, Trump said, “I would tell him that would not happen under my auspices.”

Trump met with other foreign leaders at the White House in July, including the prime minister of Pakistan, the prime minister of the Netherlands, and the emir of Qatar.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:15 PM

12. **THIS is a bombshell!!

They use the term "urgent" and it involves a breach on Trump's part. This must be something pretty dramatic!

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:20 PM

14. More has to leak... even if the IG only speaks to Schiff's committee in private

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:24 PM

16. +1

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:04 PM

47. One possibility

is that 45 promised Putin he would hold up the funding Congress allotted for assisting other European countries that helps them to push back against Russian aggression. If he made that promise to Putin, then that is concerning. No wonder the whistle blower was so concerned.

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Response to Desert grandma (Reply #47)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:56 PM

70. Yep. I bet he assured Putin he would run out the clock

on the $700+ billion, which he put under review. It cannot be doled out while under review, and if it isn't used by 9/30/19, the allocation is gone.

What's really scary is that there are so many scenarios from which to choose.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:47 PM

68. Everyone is saying Putin. Nyet. Its Kim

Putin doesnt need anything from Trump
Putty is waaaaay ahead of the game and has Trump
Wrapped around his finger

He promised Kim not to spy or make waves on that
Otto kid who they killed

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Response to GusBob (Reply #68)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:36 AM

103. Or, promised him the U.S. would pull its military from South Korea...


in exchange for a nuclear deal.

...a move that would throw our allies under the bus and potentially destabilize the entirety of East Asia.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Reply #103)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 11:35 AM

115. Or he would "take care of it" regarding...

The spy we pulled from Russia

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:20 AM

92. Good to know

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:13 PM

10. What good are systems

If they can be shit on and ignored?

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:14 PM

11. THIS IS A HUGE STORY

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Response to ritapria (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:23 AM

99. It absolutely is

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:17 PM

13. This matter must be fully fuck investigated. Nt

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:24 PM

15. trump the traitor has to go.

Not in Jan 2021. NOW!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:25 PM

17. GREAT news!

THIS is probably why tRUMP wants to always talk with putin with NO-ONE around!!!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:25 PM

18. Is it treason yet?

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:57 PM

44. Yes.

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:22 AM

97. Yes

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:47 PM

145. We're not at war

Treason is very narrowly defined in the Constitution and Congress' tendency to not declare any sort of war is problematic in establishing treason, especially by cabinet officers and above.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:27 PM

20. Rachel Maddow discussing NOW

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:29 PM

21. Seems this is a huge story

I hope the traitor pays a price.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:31 PM

23. It surely ought to be.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #21)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:21 AM

93. It needs to be even bigger

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:30 PM

22. and the acting DNI head's only excuse for not turning it over

was that HE didn't think it was "urgent". Something he has no legal right to declare.

Nail drumpf to the wall!

and if it is as bad as it sounds, the Dems must demand impeachment immediately. Come out strong and the people will follow.

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Response to Takket (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:37 PM

28. Everyone is "acting" in Trump's administration.

And they're VERY poor "actors".

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Response to Takket (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:54 PM

39. +1

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Response to Takket (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:46 PM

67. O'Donnell just read line saying the whistleblower act is not subject to judicial review.

That's why Barr told DNI not to forward info to intelligence committees.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:33 PM

25. I've been eerily calm today, waiting on a bombshell story...yep, here it is

When I hear the word “promise”, I think of Helsinki, where it appeared that DF45 had “promised” to turn ex-Russian ambassador Michael McFaul over to Putin, and some people who had helped Bill Browder write the Magnitsky Act as well...but that was so long ago...

Anyway, have a really shitty night, all you traitorous motherfuckers

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:35 PM

26. Gotta' be Putin.

Throw another impeachable log on the bonfire.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:35 PM

27. This is HUGE

ITTMF RFN!!!

There are checks and balances

Stop this fucking monster now.

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Response to malaise (Reply #27)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:38 PM

29. Did you hear Rachel's segment with Carol Leonig (spp?) from WAPO?

Heavens. I hope to hell Schiff is as brilliant and tactical as I like to think he is in addressing this.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:41 PM

30. My jaw dropped

I am in a state of stunned incredulity and by now that should not happen

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Response to malaise (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:41 PM

64. "stunned incredulity" ---- can I use that for a song title?

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Response to panader0 (Reply #64)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 04:11 AM

88. Sure - I stole it from a cricket commentator

years ago after our team blew out the English team.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:53 PM

38. Do we dare hope that

a) the facts of the incident become public (whistleblower identity remains confidential)
b) that this will be the straw that breaks the conman's back?


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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:42 PM

32. Which foreign leader was he making a "promise" to?

What was his promise?

What was so disturbing that two intel people went to the IG with it?

The House Committee has the right to that information.

I think it's time to send the Acting DNI a very nice letter. Give him some options.

The Congress has the power. They just have to use it.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #32)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:46 PM

122. What power is there to use. Congress's only power is through the courts;

what powers do courts have.

Law will not enforce itself.

So who do courts send out to enforce their rulings on subpoenas, or just their rulings -- who forcibly collects the fines, makes the arrests, and where are the scofflaws detained.

The People's House and SCOTUS are stymied by law enforcement controlled by only one branch. The president's. The FBI won't act independently. The DNI won't act independently.

That's the current state of impotence in two branches of this government. Two and a half.

In that context, loyalties to the rule of men over oaths to the rule of law -- where the "acting" cabinet is led by one man under "privilege" claims -- adhering to law or the Constitution is only as good as its enforcement.

There is no power without enforcement of it.



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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:44 PM

33. And of course, Seth Abramson is on it--his full thread (thus far)

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:46 PM

34. If the DNI had followed the Standard Protocol

 

The spotlight wouldn’t have shined as brightly on this complaint and it would have been much easier to keep it a secret. What’s the Trump hiding (again).

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:47 PM

35. If reputable news outlets already know this much...

...that probably means they already know what the promise was and who it was made to -- why not just go ahead and report it all?

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #35)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:44 PM

81. Fear of being scammed like Dan Rather...N/T

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Response to flotsam (Reply #81)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 01:10 PM

131. good point.

whispers and "second hand" sources don't cut it with something this serious.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #35)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:21 AM

94. Hopefully they will

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:51 PM

37. t-rump and the republicans are a danger

to the wellbeing of the United States of America.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:55 PM

40. Wow

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:55 PM

41. Remember the spy extracted to the US & subsequently doxxed? That Putin desperately WANTS?

Interesting (and horrific) possibility:


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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:07 PM

49. Yep.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:36 PM

62. Trump promising Putin the spy in exchange for...

Putin's all-out effort in getting Trump re-elected in 2020? Promising the names of other deep cover U.S. Agents in exchange for Putin delivering his re-election in 2020? Trump has to be worried about his re-election in 2020, and there's no doubt Trump would promise to betray our country for his re-election.

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Response to SergeStorms (Reply #62)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 01:11 PM

132. Trump

Trump doesn't have to promise Putin anything to get his help throwing the election..........Putin is having the time of his life playing Trump and the Republicans in getting them to destroy the U.S. the way Russia was destroyed and the end of the cold war........If Putin were an American, he would be the head of the Republican Party..........

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #132)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 05:18 PM

141. Do you mean....

he isn't? The way Trump and the GOP act and react he certainly appears to be the head honcho of the republican party.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #41)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:23 AM

100. Horrific indeed

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #41)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:42 PM

120. This. nt

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:55 PM

42. Putin or MBS or Kim Jong Un...

those are my bets for foreign leader. I mean, I guess it could’ve been Netanyahu, but, nah.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:56 PM

43. the GOP has been working for decades to establish a bullet proof infrastructure to protect their

illegal, criminal activities. With tRump it is now perfected, they have the media, big money, the courts and the justice system sewn up and they are untouchable.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:01 PM

45. I'm thinking THIS could

Open the door to ANY and ALL future subpoenas!!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:02 PM

46. Lawrence O'Donnell about to cover too and going over the law...

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:10 PM

50. Now the whistleblower, according to law, can go directly with the docs to Congress, once the

Inspector General informs him/her what the DNI has done or not done.

We don't know yet, whether the whistleblower has been officially informed by the IG.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:30 PM

60. L.O. has a panel of top intel community experts in discussion.

This is HUGE!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:06 PM

48. Good timing to begin the impeachment proceedings.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:12 PM

51. My guess is that it was Putin as per the following:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212467142

The Russians and Putin had developed a way to hack into computers that were not
online and a good example of offline computers is voting machines and tabulators ...


* https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12467288

... and that the Russians needed inside help to carry out those actions too.


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Response to Botany (Reply #51)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:14 PM

52. Yep. Remote hacking. They've got the infrastructure to do this.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #52)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:23 PM

56. And just by chance the voting machines were made with electronic backdoors that allowed ...

... for remote viewing of the data and data manipulation w/out leaving any "fingerprints."

To think that Putin spent all that time, money, and effort to study the hardware and
software of our voting machines, tabulators, and voter rolls but in the end not do
anything w/that knowledge and potential leverage is laughable.

I think what Schiff is after is "the Rosetta Stone" to understanding what happened in 2016.

Or then again I might be totally wrong.

*******

And remember we haven't been able to see the whole Mueller report yet.

The redacted version of the Mueller report provides a glimpse into the Oval Office on May 17, 2017, the day that special counsel Robert Mueller was appointed to his position, as Trump reacted to the news of Mueller's new job from then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I'm fucked."

https://www.axios.com/mueller-report-donald-trump-im-fucked-bbce610b-e46e-4889-9e80-2e2419d27f5b.html

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Response to Botany (Reply #56)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:29 PM

59. Yes, and just by chance MF45 is visiting all the blue states, and will over time be able to

confirm that personnel are in place in every blue and battleground state, paid to do the remote hacking. Others are paid to provide advance "close" polling to provide plausibility of the results.

The FBI's mission of threat assessment had better gear up for this, as Schiff is.

I have no idea how this will play out in media, but some hardcore fight is underway.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #59)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:51 PM

69. And yet the exit polls had HRC winning those states too.

I think exit polls had HRC winning Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina,
and Florida.

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Response to Botany (Reply #69)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:09 PM

74. Yes. And Trump's not worried about those states right now. He's in the harder terrain, like CA.

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Response to Botany (Reply #56)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:39 PM

63. Mueller said publicly that all levels of cyber attacks are going on "right now." Could the

whistleblower be Mueller himself? It would have to be a pretty important "employee."

It's plausible that they falsely claim that the employee is in the intel community. Whistleblowers in the intel community don't get the same legal protections for whistleblowing that other govt employees get, which is why I doubt that employee is really in intel, though the process takes the IG's decision to the DNI.

Which is why I'm thinking Mueller or someone in the FBI sphere, which shares with intel, but isn't considered part of the intel agency system.

How could the process get to this point otherwise.

The hive mind reels with the possibilities.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #63)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:40 PM

119. Mueller resigned in late May, 2019.

I think the whistleblower complaint was made in August, 2019.

If Mueller was a private citizen when the complaint was sent to the DNI, then I don't think the whistleblower law would have applied to a to Mueller, a private citizen.

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Response to Webhead (Reply #119)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:55 PM

128. Thanks. Welp, the whistleblower is either in the FBI or intel, then. My guess is the FBI.

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Response to Botany (Reply #56)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 01:14 PM

133. This isn't

This isn't really anything new to Putin. The Republicans had all the Computer voting "wired" in 2000 and from then on.
If a third grader can hack one of our voting machine in under five minutes that tells a lot............

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #133)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 01:45 PM

136. Even before that the GOP and part of the CIA had been working on manipulation of electronic ....

.... voting outcomes. Ever since "they" passed HAVA (help America vote act) which got
the majority of Americans voting on electronic machines we have seen a "red state shift"
in our voting that does not match the changes in demographics and what the majority
of America's societal wants. However Russia and with some inside help they took it
to a whole new level in 2016.

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Response to Botany (Reply #51)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 04:39 AM

89. what are they using? Maybe...

... mental telepathy?

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:14 PM

53. imagine how bad this is....

let's not forget drumpf stood right in the white house and gave classified intelligence to the russians without any pretense, and it didn't elicit this kind of response.

Schiff needs to expose this to the nation.

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Response to Takket (Reply #53)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 10:45 AM

113. Then what. I'm clueless about what the nation could do with it. He's betting noone can stop


anything he does. His loyalists are making sure that's the case, and will twist anything Schiff says into some "false flag" operation talk.

Who controls enforcement of law and security on the people's behalf.

I don't know anymore.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:15 PM

54. tRump and the conservanazis have ignored the rule of law.

Enough Conservanazis in Congress support tRump’s violation of law because the GOPers want the power of the Senate and the presidency.
My guess is the shit gibbon tRump talked to Putin and told him he’d stop any US Military activity having to do with Russia’s violation of the Ukraine.

TREASON.
If this issue is ignored or blocked, the conservanazi Republican Party are complicit in this act of TREASON.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:18 PM

55. Only 3

1. PUTIN
Saudi prince
Kim jung un.
See number 1

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:25 PM

57. Yeah, this seems to be a truly 'chilling' thing the whistle-blower came upon.

Unfortunately, it'll more than likely go nowhere, because tRaitor tRump and his 'tReasonous minions' will hide/release or both from Schiff and Congress.

Oh well .....

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #57)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:22 AM

96. Not from where we stand it won't

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:27 PM

58. I suspect this bombshell report is only the tip of the iceberg. The depth

of corruption when we finally get the full picture is going to be comparable to organized international crime families. The other aspect will be the actual betrayal of this country, which is going to be mind boggling because the full extent of it will probably never be fully known. We have a traitor in the Whitehouse who is incrementally selling our country to facilitate a potential dictatorship and family dynasty. The president is the greatest national security risk we have ever faced. We are no longer a functioning democracy and that is why the traitors are not yet behind bars.

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Response to Enoki33 (Reply #58)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:27 PM

78. 100% I will remember your name. Enoki, as a conduit of truth.

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Response to Enoki33 (Reply #58)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:21 AM

95. You know it

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:34 PM

61. Was it a promise to kill someone?

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 09:59 PM

71. K&R

 

xInfinity!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:00 PM

72. Why doesn't the whistleblower secretly tell Schiff all about the call?

If Trump's promise in some way places the U.S. in jeopardy, then the whistleblower should come forward.

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Response to Webhead (Reply #72)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:12 PM

75. Intel is listening and the legal whistleblower protections go out the window. The whistleblower

can come forward when s/he receives official word from the Inspector General of the DNI's decision.

Then s/he can go to Schiff and Congress.

We'll have to wait.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #75)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 08:19 AM

108. Thanks for your reply, but...

... if Trump's promise represents a real danger to the U.S., couldn't the whistleblower let Schiff know the details on the QT?

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Response to Webhead (Reply #108)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 10:37 AM

112. What could happen to the whistleblower if s/he goes to Schiff on the QT?

Would they be fired for illegally ignoring the process I laid out? Would they be arrested once they've lost whistleblower law protections?

Who would stop the prez or DOJ from arresting that person.

If Schiff knew that info from the secret meeting, what could Schiff do with "urgent and credible" info he's illegally holding. What could the public do if Schiff announced it. Can Congress act to stop whatever danger is revealed? Do they have police and/or military enforcement against the chief enforcement officer of the country?

Let's get beyond Schiff's possession of the info, and consider just what Schiff can do even if he legally gets the whistleblower's info.

The reality of presidential behavior and control of any information about it, looks to me to be way ahead of any remedies from the people's house. There's no one else to control law enforcement but him and his lackeys in the DOJ and "acting" cabinet.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #112)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:34 PM

117. Lawrence Tribe Tweeted that the Whistleblower...

...can send the report legally to Schiff and Senate counterpart after notifying DNI of his/her intent to do so.

Schiff should know this, and will respond to the DNI preventing to reveal the complaint in the closed-door meeting today .

I don't know how to appropriately reference a tweet here since I do not tweet and I am new here.

I am hopeful I can quote as follows without breaking rules:

Lawrence Tribe
It appears that the employee whistleblower may lawfully transmit the report in question directly to @RepAdamSchiff and his Senate counterpart upon notifying the DNI of the employee’s intent to do so when the DNI bottles up that report.
7:07 PM - 18 Sep 2019


Yeah, Trump tells Lewandowski and the others that he will pardon them if they lie to Congress or even fail to appear when a subpoena is issued.

The ultimate arbitrator of Trump when there is a Republican-controlled Senate preventing action is the voter in 2020.

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Response to Webhead (Reply #117)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:49 PM

125. The IG meeting with Schiff is over. This is so urgent that Schiff will act on this NEXT WEEK.

Schiff has allowed the IG to bottle up this info.

He knows that having the intel won't be enough. He'll have to do something about it. I just don't think he should take a week to figure that out.

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Response to Webhead (Reply #72)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:25 PM

77. He knows Trump is a mobster, protected by dark forces that would kill if needed.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #77)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:47 PM

124. Trump doesn't need dark forces to kill for him!

Trump can kill the whistleblower on Fifth Avenue, and get away with it. Trump could even record the deed and include it in one of his tweets.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:06 PM

73. Trump promised to deliver the US to Putin on a silver platter.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:22 PM

76. The most shocking revelation is that Trump only made an improper promise to ONE foreign leader.

I would be shocked if he doesn't make improper promises and spills US intelligence to every hostile leader he has any contact with. All they have to do is flatter him and say they like him and he hands over another piece of America.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #76)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:39 PM

80. That we know of.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:31 PM

79. Someone needs to put that whistleblower in protective custody

This is a huge story and these traitors are murderous thugs

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:54 PM

83. I'll wait till the facts come out. I hope they do.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:43 PM

85. knr

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed Sep 18, 2019, 11:44 PM

86. Kicksters

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:20 AM

90. K&R

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:16 AM

101. The key to the story is from Abramson's comments..(see post 33 by....hlthe2b.... )

4/ Understand what it'd take for an intel community official to go whistleblower—this couldn't have been a garden-variety public faux pas. It had to be a clandestine act discovered through intelligence collection that bordered on the criminal or threatened U.S. national security.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #101)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:30 AM

102. Yes. Some on AM Joe are trying to diminish the seriousness by emphasizing Presdident can declassify

anything--basically promoting the Barr/Trump premise that he is untouchable no matter what. Yet any Intelligence official who turned whistleblower knows that and was still alarmed enough to put themselves at tremendous risk, both careerwise and otherwise (!) to follow the very specific legal mechanism to bring this to the attention of Congress. There is no way, IMO, this is an "explainable" or less than the most highly serious issue that puts our very democracy at risk. No way...

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #102)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:42 AM

105. You are correct and I agree with you totally...

.."Yet any Intelligence official who turned whistleblower knows that and was still alarmed enough to put themselves at tremendous risk, both careerwise and otherwise ! to follow the very specific legal mechanism to bring this to the attention of Congress. "
......".There is no way that this is "explainable" or less than ....the most highly serious issue that puts our very democracy at risk. No way..."

Your words say it all.....This is not some sort of " nothing comment"...Whoever the whistleblower is, he/she knows how important this is....

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:38 AM

104. Interesting timeline...

Some completely random dates in chronological order:

Jul 31: Trump has shady undisclosed call with Putin about "forest fires." (It was about "normalizing" relations.)

Aug 8: Coats and Gordon out at DNI

Aug 12: Maguire in at DNI

Also Aug 12: Whistleblower complains to ICIG




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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #104)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:54 AM

107. And after that....

He had invited the Taliban to Camp David.

A few days later, John Bolton was fired.

???

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #104)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 11:28 AM

114. Damn interesting that Trump made sure Gordon or Sanner wouldn't succeed Coats, but Maguire

who could then block the whistleblower's complaint ...

Even if Coats' resignation was genuine, the normal order of succession was for Gordon to take over,, and, failing her, Beth Sanner:

Section 1. Order of Succession. Subject to the provisions of sections 2 and 3 of this memorandum, and to the limitations set forth in the Act, the following officials of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, in the order listed, shall act as and perform the functions and duties of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) during any period in which the DNI and the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence have died, resigned, or otherwise become unable to perform the functions and duties of the DNI:
(a) Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Intelligence Integration;

(b) Director of the National Counterterrorism Center;

(c) National Counterintelligence Executive; and

(d) Inspector General of the Intelligence Community.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2013/09/25/2013-23545/designation-of-officers-of-the-office-of-the-director-of-national-intelligence-to-act-as-director-of


https://www.dni.gov/index.php/who-we-are/leadership/assistant-deputy-dni-intelligence-integration

But Trump explicitly overrode the normal line of succession to get Maguire in there.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:50 AM

106. Interesting take from counterintelligence expert, Asha Rangappa



Full unrolled thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1174515385204445184.html (it may be easier to read at that link, but here is most of it) :


2. I'll first outline the best argument for Trump. The President enjoys wide latitude in foreign affairs. When it comes to the "outside world," the President represents the sovereign:He is basically the voice of the United States and can negotiate with world leaders on its behalf
3. I wrote about this very early on in the context of Trump's possible defense to obstruction charges involving Russia, which is also relevant here
Could Trump Really Say He Fired Comey in the Service of Foreign Policy?
Trump’s motive laundering could turn out to be a brilliant legal strategy—or just brilliantly stupid.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/23/trump-comey-russia-obstruction-of-justice-foreign-policy-215179
4. There is a separation of powers argument here: The President should be able to have confidential and diplomatic communications with other heads of state without undue interference from Congress: World leaders should feel secure that their convos won't be made public
5. HAVING SAID THAT -- there are limitations. First, as @jedshug has written (also in context of obstruction of justice), the President has a fiduciary obligation to act in the *best interests of the United States*. In other words, he cannot abuse his powers for personal gain
mentions
6. Further, the "slice" of his "exclusive" Art. II powers is fairly narrow. Congress does have a say, for instance, whether we go to war in the absence of an emergency defensive action. It can also say that certain types of foreign policy actions are illegal
mentions
7. So, for instance, while President Reagan might have argued that his actions in Iran Contra were in the best interest of the U.S. (preventing spread of Communism), they were nevertheless in violation of the Boland Amendment and still illegal
mentions
8. In fact, much of the extensive congressional oversight over intelligence functions stems from things like Iran Contra -- you want to balance POTUS' foreign affairs/nat sec powers with transparency, individual rights (e.g., warrantless wiretapping after 9/11),and accountability
mentions
9. The ICWPA tries to balance these interests in the context of nat sec/classified information: It makes the whistleblower go to an independent entity (agency IG or ICIG) to basically "vet" the complaint and make sure it is urgent
mentions
10. The IG has to look at the complaint, determine that it is credible, and that it is urgent: That it is "[a] serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of law or Executive order, or deficiency relating to to...an intelligence activity involving classified information"
mentions
11. I direct you to an excellent resource from @NatlSecCnslrs who wrote an excellent Q&A on the statute for @just_security here
Q&A on Whistleblower Complaint Being Withheld from Congressional Intelligence Committees
A look at the issues at play with the acting director of national intelligence refusing to turn over a whistleblower complaint to Congress.
https://www.justsecurity.org/66211/qa-on-whistleblower-complaint-being-withheld-from-congressional-intelligence-committees/
mentions
12. Note that under the definition of "urgent," the complaint cannot simply be a difference in policy opinion. And the IG is an independent entity making the determination that it is serious enough to come to the attention of Congress
mentions
13. This IG is a *Trump appointee* as @EricColumbus astutely notes
mentions
14. Sooooo...we're basically left with the fact that a Trump appointee, found this complaint to be "urgent," meaning that it is not merely a policy dispute, beyond the broad Art. II foreign affairs authority POTUS enjoys, and likely illegal -- and which Congress must look at
mentions
15. I will leave you with my evergreen piece on the two main issues the Framers were concerned about wrt to the POTUS: Self dealing and foreign influence
mentions Sorry, wrong link for my piece (but Eric's tweet is worth a second read! 😂
Trump’s Moscow Deal Is Exactly What the Framers Worried About
Self-dealing and foreign influence were their biggest fears for the presidency.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/12/03/donald-trumps-moscow-deal-framers-222752

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 08:22 AM

109. Josh Marshall (TPM) brings up several good points:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-whistleblower-complaint-is-about-trump

There’s a lot of discussion and context in the Post article. But that’s the central reported detail. It’s not clear who the foreign leader was or what was promised or really anything else. The additional key detail is this: the complaint from the unidentified whistleblower was submitted to Intelligence Community Inspector General Michael Atkinson. He determined that the complaint was credible and troubling enough to be a matter of “urgent concern”, a legal standard that requires reporting the matter to Congress.

Obviously, anyone in the government can file a whistleblower complaint. They can be frivolous or nonsensical. But the Inspector General determined it was serious and of a pressing nature. Atkinson was nominated to the position by President Trump in 2018 but he appears to be a career government lawyer. He worked at DOJ for 15 years prior to his nomination.

The decision to withhold the information from Congress was made by acting DNI Joseph Maguire, who’s in that position after the dismissal of Dan Coats. But the Post suggests that it’s not actually Maguire’s choice. The Department of Justice told him to withhold the information from Congress.




One final point. The Post article is sourced to “two former U.S. officials familiar with the matter.” That’s odd. This only happened about a month ago. Former officials shouldn’t really know anything about this unless somehow they were in the loop and retired like last week or something. That’s not totally implausible as people seem to be being pushed out of the ODNI in the wake of Coats’ departure. But it sounds (and this is just speculation based on news experience) that this information is being pushed out into the public realm using ex-officials as intermediaries. In other words, people on the inside think something is wrong and they’re using go-betweens with high level clearances to get the information public. Again, this last point is speculation. But I think it’s a logical surmise.

It sounds like something pretty serious is up here.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 08:29 AM

110. "One former official said the communication was a phone call."

Well, at least that part rings true. If they had said it was an exchange of written notes, there is no way Trump could have been involved.

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Response to DFW (Reply #110)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:53 PM

126. Praying for delicious irony that the call was on Dump's personal, unauthorized phone

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 09:24 AM

111. I'll take "I promise not to interfere when you occupy Ukraine" for $500, Alex.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 11:56 AM

116. 2 Twitter posts that focus the issues involved

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:39 PM

118. After just listening to Schiff, I'm even more worried. According to him, the matter has pretty much

been deemed "nothing to see here" by the Acting DNI and Hitman Barr. If that's the case, the whistleblower could be toast, too. If the matter is much ado about nothing, there are no protections for the whistleblower. Congress needs to stop fucking around and take this to court today. Forget next week's hearing the Acting DNI. Anyone with a dozen brain cells can describe right now how that is going to go. It seems like everyone is tap dancing and the music is "Don't Step On Anyone's Toesies."

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Response to Vinca (Reply #118)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:42 PM

121. You should find and watch last night's Lawrence O'Donnell panel. This law was written specifically

to protect intelligence whistleblowers and thus, there is no judicial review. I have been nauseous all morning with this realization. I can scarcely even write about it.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 12:47 PM

123. NEW: The whistleblower is being represented by Andrew P. Bakaj, a former CIA officer.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 01:16 PM

134. He got away with it under the FISA warrant in 2016

He's emboldened by McConnell to skirt national security, so why not toss in the sink too!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 01:42 PM

135. Lawrence Tribe on the only legal remedy for recalcitrant IG and DNI:

Given there is no judicial review for this statute (the intent was to protect intelligence info)


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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 02:13 PM

137. im sick and tired of the administration ignoring the law

its time for congress to start locking some people up. and if the leadership is to scared to do it stand aside and let others do it for them

enough is enough

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:33 PM

142. We already knew about that about a month ago

Hmmm, strange that the same thing came out around the 20th of last month.

Old news to hide more traitorous acts?

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:39 PM

144. Remember Nixon monkey wrenched the peace talks to get elected.

And Reagan made a deal with Iran to keep the hostages so he could get elected.

Whatever it is, it is not new. This is how repukes roll.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:55 PM

146. Link to TODAY'S NEW reporting:


**NEW** Whistleblower complaint about President Trump involves Ukraine (WAPO)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212477831

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