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Wed Sep 11, 2019, 01:56 PM

Forget much of what you knew about the breakup of the Beatles...

https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2019/sep/11/the-beatles-break-up-mark-lewisohn-abbey-road-hornsey-road

‘This tape rewrites everything we knew about the Beatles’
Mark Lewisohn knows the Fab Four better than they knew themselves. The expert’s tapes of their tense final meetings shed new light on Abbey Road – and inspired a new stage show

Richard Williams
Wed 11 Sep 2019 01.00 EDT

The Beatles weren’t a group much given to squabbling, says Mark Lewisohn, who probably knows more about them than they knew about themselves. But then he plays me the tape of a meeting held 50 years ago this month – on 8 September 1969 – containing a disagreement that sheds new light on their breakup.

They’ve wrapped up the recording of Abbey Road, which would turn out to be their last studio album, and are awaiting its release in two weeks’ time. Ringo Starr is in hospital, undergoing tests for an intestinal complaint. In his absence, John Lennon, Paul McCartney and George Harrison convene at Apple’s HQ in Savile Row. John has brought a portable tape recorder. He puts it on the table, switches it on and says: “Ringo – you can’t be here, but this is so you can hear what we’re discussing.”

What they talk about is the plan to make another album – and perhaps a single for release in time for Christmas, a commercial strategy going back to the earliest days of Beatlemania. “It’s a revelation,” Lewisohn says. “The books have always told us that they knew Abbey Road was their last album and they wanted to go out on an artistic high. But no – they’re discussing the next album. And you think that John is the one who wanted to break them up but, when you hear this, he isn’t. Doesn’t that rewrite pretty much everything we thought we knew?”

</snip>


More at link!

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Reply Forget much of what you knew about the breakup of the Beatles... (Original post)
Dennis Donovan Wednesday OP
Freddie Wednesday #1
unblock Wednesday #3
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #7
TeamPooka Wednesday #23
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #24
renate Wednesday #2
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #4
unblock Wednesday #5
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #8
milestogo Wednesday #12
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #13
milestogo Wednesday #14
Cetacea Wednesday #6
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #9
moniss Wednesday #10
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #11
moniss Wednesday #22
unblock Wednesday #15
moniss Wednesday #19
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moniss Wednesday #33
ChubbyStar Wednesday #25
moniss Wednesday #32
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #16
Yavin4 Wednesday #17
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #18
unblock Wednesday #21
a kennedy Wednesday #35
elocs Wednesday #26
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #27
elocs Wednesday #28
JohnnyRingo Wednesday #29
Dennis Donovan Wednesday #30
JohnnyRingo Wednesday #34
Fiendish Thingy Wednesday #31

Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 02:43 PM

1. Fascinating

Mark Lewisohn is THE Beatles authority. Really looking forward to Volume 2 of the definitive biography. He should stop all this play stuff and go home and write!

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Response to Freddie (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:07 PM

3. Sounds to me like he's doing this so he can pay the bills

And then have the time to focus on volumes 2 & 3

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Response to Freddie (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:16 PM

7. His dilemma reminds me of Robert Caro and LBJ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Lyndon_Johnson

The Years of Lyndon Johnson is a biography of Lyndon B. Johnson by the American writer Robert Caro. Four volumes have been published, running to more than 3,000 pages in total, detailing Johnson's early life, education, and political career. A fifth volume will deal with the bulk of Johnson's presidency. The series is published by Alfred A. Knopf.

Book One: The Path to Power (1982)
In the first volume, The Path to Power, Caro retraced Johnson's early life growing up in the Texas Hill Country and working in Washington, D.C. Caro's research included renting a house in Hill Country for three years, living there much of that time, to interview numerous people who knew Johnson and his family, and to better understand the environment in which Johnson had grown up.

This volume covers Johnson's life through his failed 1941 campaign for the United States Senate. This book was released on November 12, 1982. It won the 1982 National Book Critics Circle Award. It was a finalist for the 1983 National Book Award, hardcover autobiography or biography.

Book Two: Means of Ascent (1990)
In the second volume, Means of Ascent, Caro detailed Johnson's life from the aftermath of Johnson's first bid for the U.S. Senate in 1941 to his election to the Senate in 1948. Much of the book deals with Johnson's bitterly contested Democratic primary against Coke R. Stevenson in that year. The book was released on March 7, 1990.

Book Three: Master of the Senate (2002)
In the third volume, Master of the Senate, Caro chronicles Johnson's rapid ascent in United States Congress, including his tenure as Senate majority leader. This 1,167-page work examines in particular Johnson's battle to pass a landmark civil rights bill through Congress without it tearing apart his party, whose southern bloc was anti-civil rights while the northern faction was more supportive of civil rights. Although its scope was limited, the ensuing Civil Rights Act of 1957 was the first such legislation since the Reconstruction era.

The book was released on April 23, 2002. It won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize for Biography or Autobiography, the 2002 National Book Award for Nonfiction, the 2002 Los Angeles Times Book Prize for Biography, and the 2002 D.B. Hardeman Prize.

Book Four: The Passage of Power (2012)
In the fourth volume, The Passage of Power, Caro covers Johnson's life from 1958 to 1964, the challenges Johnson faced upon his assumption of the presidency, and the significant accomplishments in the months after Kennedy’s assassination.

The 736-page book was released on May 1, 2012. It won the National Book Critics Circle Award (2012; Biography), the Los Angeles Times Book Prize (2012; Biography), the Mark Lynton History Prize (2013), the American History Book Prize (2013) and the Biographers International Organization's Plutarch Award (2013). It was a finalist for the National Book Award for Nonfiction (2012). It was selected as one of Time magazine's Best Books of the Year (non-fiction #2).

Planned book five
In November 2011, Caro estimated that the fifth and final volume would require another two to three years to write. In March 2013, he affirmed a commitment to completing the series with a fifth volume. As of April 2014, he was continuing to research the book. In a televised interview with C-SPAN in May 2017, Caro confirmed over 400 typed pages as being complete, covering the period 1964–65; and that once he completes the section on Johnson's 1965 legislative achievements, he intends to move to Vietnam to continue the writing process.

In an interview with The New York Review of Books in January 2018, Caro said that he was writing about 1965 and 1966 and a non-chronological section about the relationship between Johnson and Bobby Kennedy. Asked if he still planned to visit Vietnam soon, Caro replied: "Not yet, no. This is a very long book. And there's a lot to do before that's necessary. I'm getting close to it now." In December 2018, it was reported that Caro is still "several years from finishing" the volume.

</snip>


Mr Caro is 83...

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 06:06 PM

23. side plug for Robert Caro: The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York is awesome

one of the great American biographies.

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 06:13 PM

24. Awesome book!

I read it 2x - the first time gave me shit to research; the 2nd time to confirm what I read the 1st time. GREAT biographer!!!!!

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 02:55 PM

2. Thank you!

This article will make my dad’s day!!!

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:07 PM

4. I was never fond of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" until Steve Martin did it:



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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:12 PM

5. I always figured there were pieces of the story missing

And I figured money was the real focal point of the real tension.

The four of them were getting screwed by people around them, but george and ringo were getting screwed by john & paul.

That had to have been a key part of the breakup.

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Response to unblock (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:23 PM

8. Money and management - Paul favored his lawyer in-laws, the others favored a tough SOB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Klein



Allen Klein (December 18, 1931 – July 4, 2009) was an American businessman, music publisher, writers' representative and record label executive, most noted for his tough persona and aggressive negotiation tactics, many of which established higher industry standards for compensating recording artists. He founded ABKCO Music & Records Incorporated. Klein revolutionized the income potential of recording artists, who previously had been routinely victimized by onerous record company contracts. He first scored massive monetary and contractual windfalls for Buddy Knox and Jimmy Bowen, one-hit rockabillies of the late 1950s, then parlayed his early successes into a position managing Sam Cooke, and eventually managed the Beatles and the Rolling Stones simultaneously, along with many other artists, becoming one of the most powerful individuals in the music industry during his era.

Rather than offering financial advice and maximizing his clients' income, as a business manager normally would, Klein set up what he called "buy/sell agreements" where a company that Klein owned became an intermediary between his client and the record label, owning the rights to the music, manufacturing the records, selling them to the record label, and paying royalties and cash advances to the client. Although Klein greatly increased his clients' incomes, he also enriched himself, sometimes without his clients' knowledge. (The Rolling Stones's $1.25M advance from the Decca Records label in 1965, for one glaring example, was deposited into a company that Klein had established, and the fine print of the contract did not require Klein to release it for 20 years.) Klein's involvement with both the Beatles and Rolling Stones would lead to years of litigation and, specifically for the Rolling Stones, accusations from the group that Klein had withheld royalty payments, stolen the publishing rights to their songs, and neglected to pay their taxes for five years; this last had necessitated their French "exile" in 1971.

After years of pursuit by the IRS, Klein was convicted of a misdemeanor charge of making a false statement on his 1972 tax return, for which he spent two months of 1980 in jail.

</snip>


Not sure who was right on this one...

On edit; I think it's fair to insert the sad story of Badfinger, a band signed to Apple early on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badfinger


Badfinger in 1971, from the cover of their album Straight Up. (L to R: Joey Molland, Tom Evans, Pete Ham, Mike Gibbins)

Badfinger were a Welsh rock band formed in Swansea that were active from the 1960s to the 1980s. Their best-known lineup consisted of Pete Ham, Mike Gibbins, Tom Evans, and Joey Molland. They are recognised for their influence on the 1970s power pop genre.

The band evolved from an earlier group called the Iveys, formed in 1961, which became the first group signed by the Beatles' Apple label in 1968. The band renamed themselves Badfinger, after the working title for the Beatles' 1967 song "With a Little Help from My Friends" ("Bad Finger Boogie" ). From 1968 to 1973, Badfinger recorded five albums for Apple and toured extensively, before they became embroiled in the chaos of Apple Records' dissolution.

Badfinger had four consecutive worldwide hits from 1970 to 1972: "Come and Get It" (written and produced by Paul McCartney, 1970), "No Matter What" (produced by Mal Evans, 1970), "Day After Day" (produced by George Harrison, 1971), and "Baby Blue" (produced by Todd Rundgren, 1972). Their song "Without You" (1970) has been recorded many times, including a US number-one hit for Harry Nilsson, and decades later, a UK number-one for Mariah Carey.

After Apple Records folded in 1973, Badfinger struggled with a host of legal, managerial and financial issues, leading to Ham taking his own life in 1975. Over the next three years, the surviving members struggled to rebuild their personal and professional lives against a backdrop of lawsuits, which tied up the songwriters' royalty payments for years. Their subsequent albums floundered, as Molland and Evans alternated between cooperation and conflict in their attempts to revive and capitalise on the Badfinger legacy. In 1983, Evans also died by suicide.

</snip>







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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:56 PM

12. I believe the first (non British) artist signed by Apple was James Taylor...

who I consider to be a talent on par with Paul McCartney.

"Peter Asher was A&R head for the Beatles' newly formed label Apple Records.[34] Taylor gave a demo tape of songs, including "Something In The Way She Moves," to Asher,[35] who then played the demo for Beatles Paul McCartney and George Harrison. McCartney remembers his first impression: "I just heard his voice and his guitar and I thought he was great ... and he came and played live, so it was just like, 'Wow, he's great.'"[34] Taylor became the first non-British act signed to Apple,[34] and he credits Asher for "opening the door" to his singing career.[35] Taylor said of Asher, who later became his manager, "I knew from the first time that we met that he was the right person to steer my career. He had this determination in his eye that I had never seen in anybody before."

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Response to milestogo (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 04:02 PM

13. I believe he was *one of the first*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records

Apple Records and Apple Publishing signed a number of acts whom the Beatles personally discovered or supported, and one or more of the Beatles would be involved in the recording sessions in most cases. Several notable artists were signed in the first year, including James Taylor, Mary Hopkin, Billy Preston, the Modern Jazz Quartet, the Iveys (who became Badfinger), Doris Troy, and former Liverpool singer Jackie Lomax who recorded George Harrison's "Sour Milk Sea".

</snip>

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 04:06 PM

14. Corrected. First non British artist though.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:13 PM

6. On a sadder note, John and Paul were set to record an album in December of 1980

The studio in England was all booked, so John never left New York...

Thanks for the info!

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Response to Cetacea (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:41 PM

9. They weren't enemies on 12/8/80.

They'd spoke, hung out just like old friends do. But, everything I've read, they talked about going into the studio and fucking around a bit, to see if they could come up with anything interesting.

Keep in mind the relevant music the Stones and the Who made post-1980.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:51 PM

10. Nonsense that

ignores the plain known facts. The business end of things was the main problem. Paul and Linda were in a huff because the others had initially agreed to letting his in-laws manage everything and then the others realized their mistake and withdrew their consent. Not that Allan Klein was an angel either. The chaos of Apple Corps had everybody pointing fingers and going into their respective camps. Ringo has said this best and most straightforward when he said they stopped being together as a band in the studio and so things went the way it has for many other bands. Maybe it's a rewrite of what Richard Williams knew but it has long been known that they didn't just abruptly stop trying to carry on. But by the fall of 1969 it became apparent to John that the situation wasn't an environment for creativity and business that he wanted for himself and he told the band he was leaving. There were rumors throughout 1968 that it was coming. I don't know what Lewisohn is trying to do other than make money. His quote that "the books have always told us that they knew Abbey Road was their last album........." defies the documented record of the time from interviews and interviews given hence. Apparently we in the States had different books.

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Response to moniss (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 03:54 PM

11. Lewisohn has the tapes...

You're just reiterating what's been written.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 05:45 PM

22. The tapes

are what they are and only have whatever importance can be attached to them by Lewisohn/the Guardian author claiming that everybody thought it was all the opposite of what the tapes say and now this is setting us straight. I'm simply telling you that he is wrong in claiming that everybody has always thought or known what he claims these "books" say. So Lewisohn has tapes that are of mild interest and he monetizes them by claiming some grand contradictions to "books". I've seen this before. It's one of the things that comes from being old enough to have lived through it as it happened. 50 years from now someone will come along with some thing they've stumbled upon and claim it changes everything. It's been going on about bands and events for a very long time. It's not a matter of reiterating what's been written. Carefully re-read my OP. The assumption stated by the Guardian author, and apparently Lewisohn, is incorrect. We have not all thought it is was the way they state.

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Response to moniss (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 04:25 PM

15. no one is saying it was abrupt

but amid the unraveling, it seems clear that they discussed making another album, so at some point during the abbey road sessions, they hadn't yet come to the conclusion that it would be the last one they made.

the new information doesn't seem to contradict much in the way of known facts, it only slightly adjusts the timing of when they finally decided to break up.

when you say the business end was the main problem -- i agree and this tape to my mind supports that. george getting equal standing as a writer and john and paul getting individual credit instead of joint were mere matters of ego or celebrity. they would have had an impact on how the money flowed to each of the beatles. that, in fact, may have been the deal-breaker.

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Response to unblock (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 05:28 PM

19. I don't

think it resets any timing compared to reality. John did what he did when he did it. Period. I do think the original article is trying to claim these tapes as "rewriting" everything as they say. That's where I have a problem with it the most. It might be that some people read some things that weren't true. I've lived through it and followed it as it all happened. I didn't have to wait for tapes. I read and listened to the interviews of those involved at the time and hence. I think Lewisohn is in it for the money as opposed to any purely historical matter. He's going to fluff it however it suits that endeavor best in his opinion. I stand by my original post. I think the original author here is trying to make this look as though the "books" as he says all had it that the group had agreed (using his words) to let "Abbey Road" be the final album. As I said he may find some books that say that but interviews then and hence don't describe it that way. So that to any rational definition is an abrupt end he is claiming. I said it was not abrupt and was well known at the time and hence as not being the way he claims the books portrayed it. It's all well and fine that Lewisohn is finally able to correct his misimpression due to "books" but it would seem to be the ones he chose to read and the misimpression was certainly his and not mine or many others who lived it.

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Response to moniss (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 05:33 PM

20. safe to say "doesn't that rewrite pretty much everything we thought we knew" is "marketing mode"

par for the course for authors/artists/etc. to sensationalize a bit their latest books or works or whatever.

i do think it's interesting to get additional color and details on the exact events from a half century ago....

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Response to unblock (Reply #20)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 09:26 PM

33. I agree

and hearing the exact discussion takes us all back to a large moment in pop/rock music.

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Response to moniss (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 06:42 PM

25. Please use a paragraph break

Thanks!

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Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 09:23 PM

32. My apologies I

am a horrible writer and my middle school English teachers were never the same after I attended their class.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 04:41 PM

16. Did you ever wonder what Abbey Road looked like from the opposite angle?



Hattip to Google Earth Street View.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 04:45 PM

17. They grew up. That's why they broke up.

They became adults. How many of us still hung out with people we went to High School with once we reached adult hood?

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 04:46 PM

18. I was never in business with them...

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 05:41 PM

21. jagger and richards first met when they were 4 years old.

you may still be correct; perhaps they never grew up....

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 10:27 PM

35. Right......and how many high school reunions did we all go to??

I went to one and said to myself, NEVER AGAIN. Just had a 50th reunion, AND, damn right I didn’t go.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 06:49 PM

26. I don't believe we will ever know the complete truth about The Beatles.

I read what's at the link and the comments are interesting as well.
I was a huge Beatles' fan from age 11 when before I never really cared for music, but I have read so very, very much about them that I just don't care anymore. What's real and what's legend are threads so woven together that it's near impossible now to tease them apart with 2 of The Beatles dead now.

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Response to elocs (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 07:05 PM

27. Paul always seemed to have his own versions of things

I admire Sir Paul a great deal. And I admire Sir Ringo. But Sir Paul's versions of events seem to have been self-serving over the years. Not that he ever needed any puffery of his legacy, which is set in stone. But he has always seemed to attempt to diminish his mate's in the context of Beatles history.

That said, Sir Paul!

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #27)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 07:20 PM

28. Paul was my favorite Beatle from the time I saw them

pictured on the "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" single, but you are right.
We could one day get a tell-all book from Paul (I doubt it though), but it would be from his perspective and point of view.
I am 10 years younger than Paul but I must admit that were he to die before me I would take it very hard since his music has been a big part of my life starting from the the time I was transitioning from a boy into a teen.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 07:46 PM

29. I don't entirely understand.

He refers to it at times as a "show" and others as a tape. It's also referred to as a "tour". Is it a book tour?

After reading the entire article, I'm still not sure WTF he's selling here.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 08:05 PM

30. It's media (a tape, etc?) recently released and adapted to a stage play.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 10:19 PM

34. I think I did read about this in Rolling Stone.

I didn't read too hard though.

Should be Broadway Paul by now with two stage acts going on.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 08:58 PM

31. This tape refutes Lennon's comments to Rolling Stone in 1970-71

Where he claimed to have quit the Beatles in Fall 1969, but agreed to keep quiet until the Get Back/Let It Be project was completed.

Can't wait for Lewisohn's next volume...

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