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Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:31 PM

I still can't believe Ford pardoned Nixon

What a terrible move. Terrible for the country and terrible for any future presidential misconduct.

Ford prevented the reckoning the country needed.

38 replies, 878 views

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Reply I still can't believe Ford pardoned Nixon (Original post)
sharedvalues Aug 22 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 22 #1
LisaM Aug 22 #2
unblock Aug 22 #5
sharedvalues Aug 22 #7
The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 22 #8
unblock Aug 23 #35
customerserviceguy Aug 23 #30
Rhiannon12866 Aug 23 #32
JI7 Aug 22 #3
sharedvalues Aug 22 #6
JI7 Aug 22 #9
sharedvalues Aug 22 #10
JI7 Aug 22 #11
sharedvalues Aug 22 #15
JI7 Aug 22 #17
sharedvalues Aug 22 #18
Celerity Aug 22 #12
virgogal Aug 22 #4
July Aug 22 #20
Kid Berwyn Aug 22 #13
empedocles Aug 22 #14
sharedvalues Aug 22 #16
NCLefty Aug 22 #19
captain queeg Aug 23 #33
Drunken Irishman Aug 22 #21
customerserviceguy Aug 23 #31
MicaelS Aug 22 #22
sharedvalues Aug 22 #23
MicaelS Aug 22 #24
dawg day Aug 22 #27
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 23 #29
Drunken Irishman Aug 23 #34
KentuckyWoman Aug 22 #25
dawg day Aug 22 #26
sharedvalues Aug 23 #37
shraby Aug 23 #28
Cicada Aug 23 #36
sharedvalues Aug 23 #38

Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:35 PM

1. Yeah, I'm still kind of steamed about that.

But it cost him the 1976 election, a fact he admitted later.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:40 PM

2. If he hadn't agreed to that...

Nixon would have tapped someone else.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:46 PM

5. Yeah. Really ford should have been impeached for that

Congress should have headed it off in the first place, but once he did it, congress should have said no way, we just can't have even the appearance of having done a deal to be effectively appointed president.

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Response to unblock (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:46 PM

7. +1

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Response to unblock (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:48 PM

8. A president's power to pardon is absolute,

and there was never any evidence that Ford made a deal to do it. I think he just wanted to get the whole mess behind him as soon as possible, and that was bad enough.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:44 AM

35. It's absolute in the sense no one could undo it

But that doesn't mean congress is barred from impeaching him over it.

Particularly if they determine there was bribery involved.

Yes, I know, there's no evidence of a deal. And yes, it's possible that the topic never came up when Nixon and his team were interviewing people for the veep job because after all they were such honorable people and would never do anything unethical like that

And yeah, I agree that there were more excuses for pardoning him beyond simple quid pro quo. At least republicans benefited as a party by avoiding a lengthier, public set of proceedings against Nixon.

But the end result is we allowed republicans to clearly see a way to get away with murder and they've become more and more corrupt and corrupting ever since.

I think we missed our best opportunity to head that off when we let Nixon and Ford off the hook.

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Response to unblock (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:31 AM

30. Don't forget

Ford was House Minority Leader, back in a time when the two major political parties still did things in a bipartisan way. They bought his "heal the country" thing, but the voters didn't in 1976.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #30)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:35 AM

32. Yes, but then he became an important ally to Jimmy Carter, helped him deal with Congress

The two adversaries actually became lifelong friends - and Ford asked Carter to deliver his eulogy.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:42 PM

3. what reckoning ?

 

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:46 PM

6. Precedent: presidents that commit crimes go to jail

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:49 PM

9. we have elections in this country. that's how public officials should mostly be held

 

accountable and Ford lost which was a good thing.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:54 PM

10. We have rule of law! The country was founded on this principle.

EVERYONE who commits crimes should go to jail.

Rich people. Presidents. Everyone.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:56 PM

11. that has never been the case. white people killed minorities and were set free

 

all throughout this countries history.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:03 PM

15. Yes which is why Nixon needed to be punished.

We should advocate for what’s right. What has happened in the past is often bad. Don’t lose your ability for outrage. Don’t fall into despair.

Stand up for what is right!

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:10 PM

17. this was happening even before nixon

 

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Response to JI7 (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:25 PM

18. Gotta start somewhere!

Also since Nixon wasn’t criminally punished for his crimes, we also need to start somewhere. I recommend starting with this president.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:56 PM

12. +10000

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:42 PM

4. I got over that 40 years ago.....why get in a tizzy over past mistakes?

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Response to virgogal (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:54 PM

20. Er, Cheney and Rumsfeld came back to haunt us, for starters?

No reckoning, no weeding out of malefactors.

Ford, innocuous to some degree, trashed his own reputation by putting party over country.

we’re still fighting the Civil War, so let’s look at past mistakes, shall we?

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:59 PM

13. Pardon shut down Nixon's inconvenient trial.



“They’re money in China.”

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 09:59 PM

14. 'Learn the lessons of the past - or be doomed to repeat'

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Response to empedocles (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:04 PM

16. Yes!

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 10:32 PM

19. I'm reminded of Obama not willing to investigate Bush's Iraq war lies.

Republicans have no such good will toward us.

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Response to NCLefty (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:40 AM

33. 👍

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:04 PM

21. If Ford doesn't pardon Nixon, he probably wins reelection and Jimmy Carter is never elected...

Which also means, in 1980, the Democrats likely win the White House and we don't even get Reagan.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:34 AM

31. That's a lot of what-ifs

but I see your point. Had Teddy Kennedy made his move in 1980, we'd have likely ended up with him as the nominee under your scenario, and yes, we would have not had Reagan to deal with.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:10 PM

22. I can.

At the time, most people wanted things over. They did not want a trial. He had already been humiliated by being forced to resign, the only President to have ever done so.

I know this because I was 16, how old were you?

Much of the hatred aimed at Nixon was not solely due to Watergate. Much of it was because he escalated the Vietnam War, and the way he humiliated McGovern in 1972. Lest you do not remember McGovern only won DC and 1 state. 47 million vs. 29 million. Do not even try to argue that the people did not want Nixon reelected.

And THOSE things are what those who hated Nixon, wanted Nixon punished for.




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Response to MicaelS (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:20 PM

23. On McGovern

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:42 PM

24. Good article.

Thanks for the link.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:51 PM

27. And Ford paid the price-- lost the next election.

He also lost what had been a pretty good reputation.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:06 AM

29. I was 28 years old that year.

I still am pissed over the pardon. Nixon should have died in jail.

I do agree that there was probably not an agreement that Ford would pardon, but it happened because Ford really did want our country to move on. But Ford did lose the 1976 election the day he pardoned Nixon.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:41 AM

34. A majority of Americans opposed the pardon...

https://news.gallup.com/vault/218198/gallup-vault-pardon-took-decade-forgive.aspx

In 1974, 58% of Americans felt Nixon should be tried for possible criminal charges. 38% said he should be pardoned if found guilty - 53% opposed pardoning him.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:45 PM

25. I understood.

Consider the meekness that is Ford it made sense. I disagreed and still do, but I understood.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 11:50 PM

26. Well, that was probably the deal Kissinger and Haig made Ford agree to -

to get Nixon to resign.

Someone might negotiate that with Pence, but Pence has a bit of the snake to him... he might just renege and not pardon Trump.

Something different with Nixon-- he might have committed a state (or DC) jurisdiction crime (covering up the provenance of the original burglary, bribing the burglars), but most of his crimes were definitely federal.

Trump has a lot of probable state crimes-- financial crimes, to start with, but paying off Daniels and the National Enquirer and lying on official forms and probably state income tax fraud-- AND a NY AG who isn't cowed at all by him.

So even if Pence pardons him (like right after the election), the state crimes will still exist. Thing is, Trump's going to be old and maybe pretty senile by next year, and maybe because of that, he won't be brought to justice.

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Response to dawg day (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 07:56 AM

37. We need justice for us. Not for him.

Good point on the state crimes, thanks.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 12:06 AM

28. It's been a few years and I'm still p*ssed about it.

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Response to sharedvalues (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 01:52 AM

36. After Yanukovic jailed predecessor Tymoshenko Ukraine split in two from civil war

Jailing previous leaders is dangerous for democracy. Better for one crook to go free than to risk killing democracy. Trump richly deserves jail. But jailing him might cause his supporters to do massive damage. Too risky.

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Response to Cicada (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 07:57 AM

38. Right but after Nixon was pardoned we got Reagan and Trump

We got Iran-Contra
And we got corrupt criminal Trump.

NOT prosecuting is what kills democracy.


Republicans don’t fear the law; their presidents break the law with impunity. To fix the country we have to stop that. Only personal criminal charges do that.

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