HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Whoa....neck bones broken

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:12 AM

Whoa....neck bones broken


47 replies, 2880 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply Whoa....neck bones broken (Original post)
pbmus Aug 15 OP
JoeOtterbein Aug 15 #1
lpbk2713 Aug 15 #2
brush Aug 15 #3
UniteFightBack Aug 15 #5
hlthe2b Aug 15 #25
brush Aug 15 #34
hlthe2b Aug 15 #35
brush Aug 15 #36
hlthe2b Aug 15 #37
brush Aug 15 #39
smirkymonkey Aug 15 #40
triron Aug 15 #46
UniteFightBack Aug 15 #4
brush Aug 15 #6
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #8
FBaggins Aug 15 #13
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #17
FBaggins Aug 15 #28
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #41
FBaggins Aug 15 #43
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #44
mopinko Aug 15 #7
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #9
UniteFightBack Aug 15 #11
mopinko Aug 15 #12
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #19
LisaL Aug 15 #32
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #45
Zoonart Aug 15 #27
dalton99a Aug 15 #10
Post removed Aug 15 #14
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #20
zackymilly Aug 15 #21
Agschmid Aug 15 #26
BigmanPigman Aug 15 #15
ProudMNDemocrat Aug 15 #16
mr_lebowski Aug 15 #22
912gdm Aug 15 #18
NBachers Aug 15 #23
sweetroxie Aug 15 #24
llmart Aug 15 #31
MFM008 Aug 15 #29
secondwind Aug 15 #30
FBaggins Aug 15 #33
brush Aug 15 #47
jpak Aug 15 #38
Vinca Aug 15 #42

Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:22 AM

1. It's very easy to break those tiny bones, if they are not yours.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:27 AM

2. Personally, I think it was Oddjob.






Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:27 AM

3. It is still IMO a conspiracy theory to continue claiming Epstein's death was an unassisted suicide.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:36 AM

5. Agreed. It's one thing to question here and there and quite another to make up a whole damn story

about what the hell happened.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 07:59 AM

25. It is an OPEN investigation. Investigation does not equate to conspiracy theory but to be thorough

all possibilities are considered. I'm really pissed that you and some others continue to equate a professional investigation that would be routine in this kind of situation and any and all discussion regarding as tinfoil conspiracy.

Even the judge on Epstein's case has officially requested additional information--including what has never been answered as to Epstein's previous incident just a couple of weeks prior.

When the DOJ, FBI, and the courts believe there are unanswered questions, then who are you to say THEY are wrong?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hlthe2b (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:33 AM

34. Oh, please. Their first utterance was "apparent suicide". And many are also pissed...

that that opinion was the prevailing opinion by many here despite the obvious fact that many rich and powerful people benefited from Epstein being dead.

IMO pushing the unassisted suicide theory was as much a conspiracy theory as the so-called conspiracy theory that he was killed.

Now that the autopsy has shown that such a bone break in the neck happens more often in strangulation (murder) than when someone hangs himself, there's an outcry for a thorough investigation when before the unassisted suicide theory seemed to be the one many were rushing to accept and Barr and the DOJ seemed to be pushing.

I and many others here are pleased that there will be a thorough investigation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #34)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:37 AM

35. No, PLEASE yourself. Until a finding has been issued after investigation, your assumptions are

no more than your own theory, conspiracy or not. Your attitude that you are somehow more in the know, literally from the day it happened, runs counter to the officials charged with investigating it. I don't care if you have your mind made up, but I do mind when you grossly excoriate others for merely wanting to wait on the FACTS. Your behavior in this regard is no better than those who jump at a murder accusation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hlthe2b (Reply #35)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:41 AM

36. Just let the thorough investigation happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:42 AM

37. That is what I have been saying. YOu on the other hand have been accusing others of

CT just for merely BACKING the investigation. I am glad if you have now come around.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hlthe2b (Reply #37)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:47 AM

39. You seem to not understand. I and many others were accused of pushing CTs because...

we made it known we didn't accept the "unassisted suicide" theory.

I'm glad there will now be an investigation and I am now through with this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hlthe2b (Reply #25)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:08 PM

40. I think there are some people here who think that by claiming any speculation or questioning of

controversial incident is a "conspiracy theory" makes them more logical or intelligent than everyone else. It's a pretty annoying habit around here.

As far as I am concerned, nobody really knows what happened and until a thorough investigation has been completed, anything is possible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #40)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:33 PM

46. Amen! I get pretty disgruntled about that very thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:35 AM

4. But this breakage CAN OCCUR whilst hanging oneself. Let's just gloss over that part. Not buying

it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:42 AM

6. What seems to be being glossed over is such a breakage most often occurs during strangulation.

In other words, murder.

Do you agree?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:50 AM

8. I'm betting the part being left out is when it DOES happen via hanging ...

It's most common when someone is totally suspended, hanging by their entire bodyweight ... NOT in people who hang themselves ... say ... from an upper bunk ... when they're much taller than the bunk is high ... and hence remain in contact with the ground when hanging themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:13 AM

13. More likely it's just the opposite

The vast majority of hangings are of the first variety you mentioned.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FBaggins (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:44 AM

17. The relative % of each method is not relevant to my point ...

We are apparently not on the same page here ... care to elaborate?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:18 AM

28. It isn't uncommon for hanging to result in a broken neck

In fact, my understanding is that that's how it's supposed to work. If the combination of your weight and the length of the drop exceeds some threshold, your neck breaks and you're unconscious and move rapidly to brain death (supposedly resulting in an easier death than most other forms of execution/suicide). If the force of the drop is insufficient to break the neck, then you're dying by strangulation (presumably less pleasant).

In this case (and what follows is mere speculation because I haven't seen clear facts), there was no way to actually put his full body weight onto his neck, let alone "drop" any distance... so while we read that he "hanged" himself, he really strangled himself. He supposedly had to kneel and lean out over the room. That would put the force on entirely different parts of his neck than a normal hanging. Quite reasonably on the same parts of the neck that other forms of strangulation would.

Doesn't mean that the suicide story is true... it just means that the injury details don't provide proof that it isn't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FBaggins (Reply #28)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:38 PM

41. Fair enough but somebody strangling you is likely to be exhibiting a lot more concentrated force

Than strangling yourself with a sheet ... with little to no 'drop' involved ... would.

Doesn't it seem like it's probably unlikely ANY bones would break, strangling yourself by the described method?

Would you concede this point?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #41)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:54 PM

43. I confess that my speculation was at about the limits of my understanding - likely beyond

I can't evaluate whether your thought that strangulation by someone else would exert more force than he could have been exerting with... say... his legs is compelling. I think it would be greater if the other person were using a garrote or similar... but I would expect that to leave identifiable marks.

I don't discount the possibility. I just don't see that the type of break being different from a "normal" hanging tells us much because nothing in the story as reported so far sounds like we should expect the results of a "normal" hanging. I think the correct position at this point is to agree that the overall scenario does not instill confidence that no foul play was involved... but also does not point to it as the most likely scenario.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FBaggins (Reply #43)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:56 PM

44. Well-reasoned ... I think we've more or less reached a consensus ... (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:48 AM

7. ok, i'm just speculating, but

if he hung himself w a bed sheet off a bunk bed, i dont see how this is forceful enough to break bones.

i suspect that it would take either a good height, a heavy body, or a thin rope that would concentrate the force.

yeah, curiouser and curiouser.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mopinko (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:52 AM

9. Agreed ... I'd bet in cases it happens during hanging, it's during SUSPENDED hangings ...

Not bunk-bed and door-knob hangings, with sheets ... as you point out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mopinko (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:06 AM

11. What is a good height? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:12 AM

12. far enough to actually drop.

feet off the floor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:55 AM

19. Approximately one millimeter MORE than the height at which the tips of your feet can touch the floor

Enough to dangle, such that the entire weight of your body is being supported by the bones in your neck, IOW.

And no bunk bed is high enough unless you're like <3 feet tall and can suspend yourself between the bottom of the top frame and the bottom of the bottom frame.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:54 AM

32. He was reportedly kneeling, not dangling.

How did the multiple bones in his neck get broken?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LisaL (Reply #32)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:58 PM

45. My point exactly ;) (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mopinko (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:08 AM

27. Exactly right.

Even with a sizable drop from a gibbet on a thin rope, victims have been known to not break bones and slowly die of asphyxiation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:56 AM

10. Not from this height:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:59 AM

20. This particular sample set and methodology seems like a sound choice ...

They really should all volunteer, for the Advancement of Science!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:02 AM

21. Since you asked, I think your post is sick. Wanting to hang people is something the right says. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:01 AM

26. This is a really disgusting post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:32 AM

15. It is sort of like a Catch-22

There are so many factors to this that easily lead any person to consider a conspiracy. Maybe that is what "they" want us to think as their ruse. Perhaps if too many rational people start to think, "Oh, this is silly. It isn't the movies or TV or Alex Jones" than we will dismiss it as suicide after all. Almost like there is "too much" evidence so it all ends up seeming like a bad movie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:39 AM

16. It is my understanding that most prisons/jails have low ceilings.....

That make hanging oneself nearly impossible. Sheets are thin enough to not be able to handle heavier weights.

I am of the opinion that Epstein was murdered. It takes powerful hand grips to break bones in the neck during strangulation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProudMNDemocrat (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:02 AM

22. The more important piece is not the height of the ceiling, it's the availability of things to hang

oneself from. I doubt many jails have anything within the cell an inmate could attach something to to hang themselves with.

That said, all things being equal, a low ceiling would more easily facilitate a hanging due to the fact that one could more likely reach it to attach something to.

Even a low ceiling is always going to be higher than 99.9% of people are tall ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:53 AM

18. jeez... this is always going to be a conspiracy theory.

IMO this should cost Barr his job. He knew the prisons had staffing problems, and he knew Epstein would be high profile, and it's his job to know that if anything happened to Epstein it would further erode public confidence. They need to Benghazi the shit outta Barr in hearings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 912gdm (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:03 AM

23. Yes, the drum beat needs to get loud for Barr to lose his job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NBachers (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:43 AM

24. And maybe a LOT more than that!

nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 912gdm (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:50 AM

31. Who's going to fire him?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:26 AM

29. Since when

Did we start believing what Barrs justice dept tells us?
Anything could have happened to Epstein.
I put nothing past anyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:44 AM

30. Wasn't there some "shrieking " going on, also?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to secondwind (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:29 AM

33. Well... yeah... but who knows with this guy?

He reportedly at least one of his victims that he had to have sex at least three times a day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to secondwind (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:58 PM

47. Not buying one can shriek when hanging oneself. You can if you're getting murdered though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:43 AM

38. The hyoid and multiple cervical vertebrae were broken

That takes a lot of force...

Just sayin'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jpak (Reply #38)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:40 PM

42. It's definitely stinky unless Epstein had brittle bones.

Let's hope we get an honest investigation WITHOUT Barr involvement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread