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Wed Aug 14, 2019, 09:52 PM

Kentucky is part of Appalachia

Appalachia including the part I live in, has ALWAYS been hardscrabble for jobs that offer a decent wage. There is no reason that moscow mitch and other politicians in Kentucky have to sell out their country to create jobs in a depressed area.
There were aluminum plants in TN, WV, and Ohio that created jobs and stimulated the local economies for decades, since the late 1950s. Then they closed. The ceos got nice retirements (I heard that (ratface) emmitt boyle got about $30,000.00/day and he managed to close 3 of the plants on his own.
Why does one politician get to decide to sell the whole country down the river? He brokers a deal that allows russia undue influence in the whole country and if other KY politicians oppose the plant out of loyalty for the U.S.A., they end up being the bad guys and opens the door for even more russian interference in our country. When it didn't happen before. And now the same russian that bought KY is offering the same kind of deal to 8 other states.

The even crappier thing is that russia's economy isn't even close to the U.S. economy, at least before trump and putin got their filthy hands on it. We have allies who would do business with us. We didn't need russian termites invited to nest in our house.

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Arrow 39 replies Author Time Post
Reply Kentucky is part of Appalachia (Original post)
Marthe48 Aug 14 OP
guillaumeb Aug 14 #1
GulfCoast66 Aug 14 #4
yonder Aug 14 #10
treestar Aug 14 #19
guillaumeb Aug 15 #35
X_Digger Aug 14 #5
Recursion Aug 14 #7
Turin_C3PO Aug 14 #8
Recursion Aug 14 #9
cwydro Aug 15 #22
Recursion Aug 15 #24
cwydro Aug 15 #25
Recursion Aug 16 #39
LuvNewcastle Aug 15 #37
X_Digger Aug 14 #11
GulfCoast66 Aug 14 #12
treestar Aug 14 #20
Recursion Aug 14 #15
cwydro Aug 15 #26
Progressive dog Aug 15 #28
ret5hd Aug 15 #29
Progressive dog Aug 15 #31
LuvNewcastle Aug 15 #38
guillaumeb Aug 15 #36
struggle4progress Aug 14 #2
elleng Aug 14 #3
Recursion Aug 14 #6
GulfCoast66 Aug 14 #13
Turin_C3PO Aug 14 #14
Hoyt Aug 14 #16
Recursion Aug 14 #17
cwydro Aug 15 #23
jberryhill Aug 14 #18
Codeine Aug 15 #32
kentuck Aug 15 #21
ret5hd Aug 15 #30
snowybirdie Aug 15 #27
librechik Aug 15 #33
Marthe48 Aug 15 #34

Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 09:56 PM

1. These coal workers could be retrained to insulate houses.

And build schools.
And repair infrastructure.
And install solar panels.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:06 PM

4. Agreed. But that kind of talk also pisses me off.

For years I have been told by my racist family members(not all of them are like this) that poor inner city blacks should study harder and do better in school and move out to where the jobs are.

Suddenly when it is white miners and such we need job programs to bring low skilled jobs to them. Hell, inner cities with few employment opportunities could build schools, repair infrastructure and make solar panels.

To add insult to injury we watched an entire generation of inner city kid being incarcerated because of drug dependency brought on by their poor economic situation. Suddenly when white folks are in that situation with Meth and Opioids we have a dependency problem any they need help!

Sorry. Iím venting. I agree we should help any American in a bad spot. But the double standard sometimes pisses me off.


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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:34 PM

10. +1.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:31 PM

19. +2

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 05:17 PM

35. Excellent analysis.

And racism, obviously, is the key factor here.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:23 PM

5. Frankly, there aren't enough houses, schools, etc for that to work.

Here's a shot of the elementary school I attended in appalachia, 45 minutes from Kentucky



There's no land that isn't flood plain or scraped out of the side of a mountain next to a creek.

Zoom out a bit, and you can see that it's everywhere there..



The town I grew up in has tried to expand economically by opening a few low-cost colleges, but it's still struggling.

Just too many people for the available non-coal jobs.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:26 PM

7. So people need to move

I mean, somebody in their family tree moved there, unless they are Shawnee; I'm not sure why people today feel like they are exempt from having to move to where the jobs are.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:29 PM

8. Moving costs a lot of money.

If youíre barely making a living wage, itís hard to save money. My dad, a Republican, used to always say that blacks in Watts, where unemployment was over 30%, were too lazy to move to where jobs are. Thatís why youíre comment hits me the wrong way.

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:33 PM

9. No, it's not that. People moved more when they were poorer than today

Hell, people manage to walk from Guatemala to US cities and start a life. People in West Buttmunch, OH can do it too, they just feel it's beneath them. This generation is the least mobile generation in US history, according to the census, despite also being the richest.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 07:09 AM

22. Explain how an unemployed person with a family can move so easily?

Gas for the car, u-haul at the very least, first, last, and deposit for rent, food, then the costs of utilities, if no credit, theyíll need deposits up front...and do they just stick a pin in a map and move to that place?

Methinks you have no idea of whatís involved.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:04 AM

24. Well, I had a bus ticket and about $100 when I did it

If you have a family you go first and get set up so you can bring them with you. Again: people from Guatemala do this; there's absolutely no excuse for people from Kentucky not to.

What you can't do is stay in a town where the only form of currency is crates of soda.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #24)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:35 AM

25. So, inner city unemployed African Americans should be able to do the same, right?

So this guy/gal you say should buy a bus ticket and has $100. Where does he stay when he arrives in this mythical city of milk and honey?

Does he have a place to shower, have clean clothes, ability to look for jobs (transportation)? Heís going to get hired the first day right? Where will he sleep, eat?

ďPeople from Guatemala do this.Ē

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Response to cwydro (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:38 AM

39. They do

Majority-minority urban neighborhoods have the highest churn of all. People do move and get out.

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 06:08 PM

37. Another thing, too, is they don't want to give up their housing.

Sure, some of them rent, but a lot of people in rural areas have inherited their land and houses and they're reluctant to leave. If they leave, they'll either have to sell their place for a small sum or they can hold on to it while they move to the city and pay outrageous rents. It's about security. Giving up everything you have and putting yourself in a situation where you're vulnerable to the whims of an employer and a landlord does not appeal to many people.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:37 PM

11. Good luck with that.

My county was the poorest in the state, with a median household income of $26,000.

Most of the kids already leave- they recently consolidated two high schools into one, and it's still only ~60% used.

One of my cousins is the only person from my age peers that I know who still lives there. He got a job working for the state.

Moving as a kid going to college is a hell of a lot easier than moving a family with kids, especially when your job suitability is limited outside of mining.

I feel for them, but glib responses like, "Well move, then." aren't terribly helpful, nor does it demonstrate an understanding of the situation.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:46 PM

12. I don't disagree. But after decades of hearing smug whites,

Say that if black inner city folks were not too lazy to move to where the jobs are, itís hard not to throw it back in their faces.

And the double standard infuriates me.

But you are correct. Itís wrong to do in any circumstance.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #12)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:34 PM

20. Yes. The right says this

And so the same people, who voted republican, donít want to hear it when it applies to them. Typical.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:58 PM

15. I do understand the situation; I grew up in a podunk town in Mississippi

And so I left the second I could.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:35 AM

26. Thank you.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:05 AM

28. Sometimes, people who have few job skills

have a tough time finding a job. The demand for underground coal miners is way down and it isn't coming back.
We rebuild from earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, and other natural disasters and don't tell people to move.
Why should they have to move from a man made disaster?

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #28)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:45 AM

29. My first response is: After rebuilding from a tornado, etc...

whatever jobs/opportunities were there before will mostly be there after. Maybe not so much for the coal mines.

But that does get me wondering...i wonder what the "rebuilding" jobs would be in coal country? Land reclamation? Transporting that coal slurry you hear about that the coal companies keep behind dams that always seem to be near vulnerable creeks? Maybe transport it to deep in abandoned mines and then sealed?

I don't know. Even if that would work, it seems that another generation or three would be relegated to dank, miserable, and deadly working conditions only to leave them with limited options when the project was completed.

Personally, I believe only education holds the key. As long as large segments of of our population is (purposefully in my opinion) under educated they will be open for exploitation and dismissal.

A book I highly recommend that takes a deep look at the situation in the Appalachias is:
Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War
by Joe Bageant

But be warned: He did not see many solutions. Here is an interview. Take 7 1/2 minutes:

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:55 AM

31. I'm not sure what we need to do in Appalachia

but I am certain that abandoning people is not the solution.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 06:19 PM

38. Education is an excellent suggestion.

A lot of people in depressed areas don't have much, but many of them have a lot of time on their hands. If they have schools to go to and money to take classes and earn degrees, they are much more likely to eventually lift themselves out of poverty. Educated people are less likely to land in the pitfalls of life that plague so many in poor areas. Educated people are more likely to find solutions to the problems that they see around them. A good education is never a waste.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 05:19 PM

36. My father left our town when I was 16.

We moved from N Brunswick to Illinois.

And we left a lot of family.

We moved so my father could work in a union steel mill.

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Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:02 PM

2. "Coming up next: Greedy bastards on parade! Some people never ever have enough!

Will they sell out their neighbors? Will they sell out their country? Stay tuned!"

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Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:05 PM

3. Apparently some KY Dems agree with moscow's move,

'Can't be particular about where it comes from.'

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Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:24 PM

6. Kentucky's unemployment rate is 4%

The problem is not "it's hard to find a job", the problem is "people in dead towns demand that a job be handed to them where they are rather than move to where the work is like their parents or grandparents did"

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Response to Recursion (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:48 PM

13. And like they have criticized inner city folks for decades.

I guarantee many of the have carried on about lazy blacks in the cities not willing to move to the jobs.

Hell, I guarantee you they still say it today! Their hypocrisy is astounding. How do I know? Some are my kin!

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:55 PM

14. Sounds like my father.

He always called urban blacks not willing to move due to laziness. But thinking about it now, he actually criticized, in his bigoted words ďAppalachian trailer trashĒ. I guess he was an equal opportunity classist.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:10 PM

16. I'm not opposed to grants, or loans, for moving people for a viable job.

Seems cost effective. More importantly humane.

Unfortunately, there is no simple solution.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:13 PM

17. North Dakota will pay your moving expenses if you move there

Because if you stand on a street corner in North Dakota for 5 minutes, someone will hit you over the head and take you to their workplace to work because they are so desperate for workers right now.

But, yes, I'm all for all kinds of public assistance for anybody who can't find a job and needs to move.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 07:14 AM

23. I was in North Dakota earlier this year. I visited Williston, which was one of the boom towns.

Housing is difficult to find, and itís very expensive. Doesnít a person need a place to live?

The locals there told me the boom ended up with many homeless and undesirables who thought they were going to make a bundle.

I stood on a corner waiting for my Uber; no one offered me a job.

Again, you really should get out in the real world before you judge other people.

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Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:30 PM

18. Astroglide killed the KY jelly industry

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:05 PM

32. Slick. nt

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Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 06:36 AM

21. Appalachia is part of KY..

Last edited Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:06 AM - Edit history (1)

Eastern KY, SE KY, and NE KY are all part of the mountain chain.

It's a different state when you get down into horse country around Lexington and central KY. It's different still when you get up around Louisville, the largest city in the state. Also, Bowling Green and Paducah are much different from the mountain areas.

Just for clarification.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #21)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:50 AM

30. I hear there's a lot of violence in Bowling Green.

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Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:42 AM

27. I seem to remember

Hillary Clinton talked about a plan to bring Industry to that region because coal mining was declining. She wanted retraining of workers. Repubs and dumpy ridiculed her plans and said coal mining would be viable again! Ha!

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Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:08 PM

33. It could be worse. Kentucky could be part of America

oops, sorry. I love Kentuckians! I'm just a clown.

We must kill the fillibuster.

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Response to Marthe48 (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 05:05 PM

34. One of the lures to Appalachia is sparse population

There are small towns and lots of empty space. People who live here hunt and fish, or farm. People who live elsewhere come to hunt, fish, hike, all the outdoor things. I grew up in Cleveland, Oh. My parents bought an abandoned farm and we'd come down on the weekends. When my parents separated, my mom, younger brother and I moved to southern Ohio. I've lived here since I was 17, graduated from a small school, married, raised a family. We lived through some tough times, and so did our family and friends. We have been lucky to avoid the opioid crisis. Maybe I was part of the last generation that was able to survive here, I don't know for sure. Our kids, and all of their cousins, have scattered across the country from Monroe and Belmont Counties and have been much more successful than if they had stayed. Depending on what someone wants from life, it is still possible to earn a decent living in the larger towns. I just don't think people like moscow mitch and others need to make deals with the devil. Even with the woes we see here now, the resilient people who live in Appalachia have not hit bottom. We don't need russian influence now and I hope we never will.

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