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Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:13 PM

Do Democrats have enough evidence to impeach ?

If so, then the question must be, why not?

Are they fearful of political consequences? If that is the case, then we should ask if these folks are truly representing our interests? Are they representing the best interests of our nation?

If they were truly representing the interests of the nation, they would not say such nonsense as, "They would never convict in the Senate".

Instead, they would implore and persuade enough Senators to vote for their country, rather than their Party. They would not surrender to their fears and political desires.

If indeed Donald Trump is as incompetent, unstable, dangerous, and unpredictable as most people believe, then do we not have a responsibility to get him out of office as soon as possible? Who should we blame for letting him continue to tear down our country and our democracy?

Who should the people blame if Donald Trump is still on the ticket in November 2020 ?

71 replies, 2132 views

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Reply Do Democrats have enough evidence to impeach ? (Original post)
kentuck Aug 14 OP
lame54 Aug 14 #1
kentuck Aug 14 #3
lame54 Aug 14 #5
Recursion Aug 14 #23
kentuck Aug 14 #27
Recursion Aug 14 #28
kentuck Aug 14 #32
Recursion Aug 14 #33
kentuck Aug 14 #37
Recursion Aug 14 #38
kentuck Aug 14 #39
LanternWaste Aug 15 #54
kentuck Aug 15 #59
SidneyR Aug 16 #62
kentuck Aug 16 #63
Fullduplexxx Sunday #69
Bettie Aug 14 #40
Fiendish Thingy Aug 15 #53
TheRealNorth Aug 15 #55
bearsfootball516 Aug 14 #2
Act_of_Reparation Aug 14 #4
kentuck Aug 14 #6
Act_of_Reparation Aug 14 #12
LanternWaste Aug 15 #56
maxsolomon Aug 14 #8
Recursion Aug 14 #24
LanternWaste Aug 15 #58
lame54 Aug 15 #57
NewJeffCT Aug 14 #7
kentuck Aug 14 #10
dumbcat Aug 14 #9
kentuck Aug 14 #13
dumbcat Aug 14 #20
fescuerescue Aug 14 #22
Recursion Aug 14 #25
kentuck Aug 14 #29
spanone Aug 14 #11
kentuck Aug 14 #14
spanone Aug 14 #15
LiberalLovinLug Aug 15 #48
kentuck Aug 15 #49
LiberalLovinLug Aug 15 #50
kentuck Aug 15 #52
tirebiter Aug 14 #16
mopinko Aug 14 #17
StarfishSaver Aug 14 #35
kentuck Aug 15 #44
mopinko Aug 15 #45
Qutzupalotl Aug 14 #18
kentuck Aug 14 #19
Bettie Aug 14 #41
kacekwl Aug 14 #21
Recursion Aug 14 #26
kentuck Aug 14 #31
lapucelle Aug 14 #30
StarfishSaver Aug 14 #34
melman Aug 14 #36
Poiuyt Aug 14 #42
kentuck Aug 15 #43
bucolic_frolic Aug 15 #46
librechik Aug 15 #47
LiberalLovinLug Aug 15 #60
polichick Aug 15 #51
LiberalFighter Aug 15 #61
FiveGoodMen Aug 16 #64
RVN VET71 Sunday #65
onecaliberal Sunday #66
backscatter712 Sunday #67
rzemanfl Sunday #68
Skittles Sunday #70
bloom Sunday #71

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:17 PM

1. Not for the senate...

Their will never be enough for Moscow Mitch

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Response to lame54 (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:32 PM

3. So that is a reason to not impeach?

Moscow Mitch would never go along with it?

Excuse me, but I think that is very, very weak.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:37 PM

5. Just answering the question...

You decide

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Response to kentuck (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:11 PM

23. Because an acquittal is a huge political win for him

I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand. "TRUMP VINDICATED" as a headline in every paper is not what we want when we're trying to run against him.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #23)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:15 PM

27. You can call a horse's tail a leg....but that doesn't make it so....

...only if you choose to believe it.

Only if you choose not to challenge it.

Then, of course, you lose. The facts lose.

What will Trump be vindicated from?

Yes, if the Democrats choose to lie down and surrender, Trump will surely win and his supporters will feel vindicated.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:17 PM

28. That makes no sense

Sorry, you're just wrong here, and I'm glad people who actually understand optics are in charge rather than people who think like you.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:25 PM

32. What will be the optics if the Democrats do not impeach?

Give us a little more info.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #32)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:27 PM

33. Well, Trump is underwater in every swing state, so hopefully something like they are now

He's bleeding support from Republicans right now, which is what we want. They're not going to switch parties, but they're also probably not going to vote. Impeachment galvanizes them and gets them out to the polls for Trump. Same reason Gingrich lost seats after impeachment.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #33)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:34 PM

37. First of all, the Clinton impeachment was a different situation.

How do we know that impeachment will "get them out to the polls"? The more they find out about his criminal acts, the more they will love him? I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense? If he is behind in the swing states right now, what is the reason for that?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #37)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:37 PM

38. Come on

The more they find out about his criminal acts, the more they will love him?

Jesus Christ, Kentuck, have you been sleeping for the past 2 and a half years?!?! YES, empirically the more they find out about his criminal acts the more they love him.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:45 PM

39. His supporters will love him no matter what...

But, I am not as certain as you that other Republicans or Independents on the fence would feel the same way. I don't believe there is any empirical evidence of that. We might think so, but we don't know for sure.

FOX News has a poll out today showing his unfavorable rating at an almost all-time high.

In my opinion, people are slowly learning the facts.

I have little doubt but that he would claim victory and vindication if the Democrats do not impeach.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #39)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:36 PM

54. I see zero evidence republicans would distance themselves from Trump...

I see zero evidence republicans would distance themselves from Trump regardless of his actions.

We've witnessed some pretty high-grade vulgarity from him, from his punch to the face of their Family Values branding, to him pulling the rug out from under their Fiscal Responsibility branding, the GOP hasn't done so much as peep a word of admonishment.

So it then begs the question: what specifically leads you to believe this has changed in some measurable way?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #54)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:49 PM

59. It doesn't matter...

He is a threat to national security and should be removed from office.

However, when we hear that 95% of the Republican Party support him, we should not assume that is the same Republican Party that voted for him in 2016. The results in the 2018 midterms was not a good sign for Republicans, in my opinion. Trump wanted that election to be about him. If it was, he lost in a landslide.

He could lose half the Republican Party and still have 95% support from the remaining Republican Party. But, I think I am more heartened by the midterm results than the Democratic Party is, in general.

But, you are correct that he has not heard a peep of a word of admonishment from the GOP.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:45 AM

62. Senate won't convict

The hesitation is rooted in the fact that the Senate won't convict after the House brings impeachment charges, leaving Trump triumphantly claiming the biased Dems tried to persecute him for nothing but the Senate completely exonerated him. Trump would emerge stronger than ever, with his base all fired up.

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Response to SidneyR (Reply #62)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:25 AM

63. Spoken like someone with not a lot of confidence in Democrats...

....but quite a bit in Mitch McConnell and the Republicans?

The Senate would exonerate him in words. But the reality would remain. He is an incompetent, criminal blow-hard.

His base all fired up? All 28% of them?

Be afraid, Democrats. Be very afraid.

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Response to SidneyR (Reply #62)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 08:25 PM

69. They have the option to not refer it to the senate

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Response to lame54 (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:50 PM

40. Well, if Moscow Mitch is who Democrats must

please in all things, why are they passing legislation that they know for a fact will never see the light of day?

If Moscow Mitch is the only person who matters in government, then why do anything that he doesn't like? Perhaps they should just bow before him and beg his indulgence by asking what his orders are.

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Response to lame54 (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:30 PM

53. The senate doesn't impeach

Only congress can impeach, and clearly there is plenty of evidence, just not the political will.

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Response to lame54 (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:36 PM

55. Trump could shoot Moscow Mitch's mother on 6th Ave

And Moscow Mitch would still protect Trump.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:31 PM

2. Oh, they absolutely have enough to impeach.

But as far as who the people should blame if Trump is on the ticket, that's Senate Republicans. They'll never convict.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:35 PM

4. No, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't do it.

Look, the GOP has long ago abdicated their responsibility to elected office. They are not going to vote to impeach no matter what comes to light.

The question is what scenario has better optics for Democrats: impeaching and not succeeded, or yelling about what criminal Donald Trump while refusing to impeach.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:37 PM

6. I disagree.

It is not about "optics".

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Response to kentuck (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:55 PM

12. In a democratic system, optics are everything.

Yes, there are moral/ethical/legal reasons act. But morals and ethics don't vote.

Incidentally, I'm for impeachment. I think as long as we're going to talk about what an incompetent criminal Donald Trump is, we should be prepared to use every tool at our disposal.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:38 PM

56. I double disagree. A thing may be about more than a singular concept.

And may encompass multiple mechanisms of culture simultaneously.

Finding the objective measure of how each of those concepts are weighted relative one to the other is the elusive bone.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:44 PM

8. Again, the Senate does not Impeach.

The House Impeaches.

The Senate is the jury; they vote to convict. The Republican-controlled Senate will not convict the Con.

In fact, if McConnell can avoid conducting a trial presided over by Roberts, he will. The Optics of a trial, with Schiff making a public case that President Asshole COORDINATED with Wikileaks and the Rooshins, are not going to be pleasant for the GOP.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:12 PM

24. Yes it is. His numbers go up.

Remember, Trump polls more favorably with Republicans in the context of allegations that he colluded with Russia.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #24)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:41 PM

58. And that's a concept we're new to. Could be why we're having problems adjusting to it.

"rump polls more favorably with Republicans in the context of allegations that he colluded with Russia."

And that's a concept we're new to. So I'm not surprised at all it's a concept many will have problems with digesting while yet others may deny its very existence.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:39 PM

57. Never implied that...

Just answering the OP

In fact - impeachment is already under way

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:40 PM

7. They can barely get half the caucus

to vote to impeach right now. So, that would be a "NO"

If they can get the entire caucus united behind impeachment and then get at least a handful of Republicans to agree with them on impeachment, THEN you can say they have enough evidence.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:47 PM

10. In my opinion, that is two separate issues.

1) Do the Democrats have enough votes to impeach?

2) Is there enough evidence to impeach?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:45 PM

9. Don't need any evidence

Just need votes. I doubt any evidence gathered or presented is going to change many, if any, votes.

Even if impeached, the evidence is presented to the Senators. They sit in judgement of it. It's their votes that count. And it will be all about optics.

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Response to dumbcat (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 03:15 PM

13. But will it change the votes of Democrat or Republican voters...?

...when they sit in judgement in November 2020 ?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 05:01 PM

20. It probably will

Both ways. And we may not like the final tally.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:04 PM

22. Almost nobody changes their voting

from R to D or D to R. Those that do, do it once in their life.

What changes from election to election is WHO gets out to vote.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:13 PM

25. No. That basically never happens (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:18 PM

29. However, there are times when voters from both Parties have chosen to sit out an election...

...for some odd reason or another.

That does happen from time to time.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:50 PM

11. Yes.

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Response to spanone (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 03:49 PM

14. Do you think Democrats will pay a heavy price if they do not impeach?

I think it is very possible. It could be worse than anything they might have imagined? There will be a price to pay.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #14)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 03:52 PM

15. Yes I do. Trump will pummel us for not impeaching. He'll do the same if senate doesn't convict.

I'd rather be on the offense. Impeach.

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Response to spanone (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:13 PM

48. This is my thinking as well

If we don't impeach, one of the Trump campaign tactics will be to brag about how full of hot air the Democrats are and how terribly they have treated him. He will announce how innocent he is. and always was, and that now its obvious to everyone that Democrats were just making stuff up, and the liberal news media was their megaphone for their fake claims. That the proof is in the pudding because the Dems would have surely tried to impeach him if they could have.

And the fall out after that? He will win a second term, and then any talk of impeachment at the start of his second term will be laughed at. They will have no momentum, and probably even the MSM news will have moved on and ridicule any moves by some Democrats to revisit it. They would still need to sell ad spots, and would shrink back to the good old false equivalencies and another notch will click pushing the interpretation of "normal" further to the right, further towards fascism. I'm frightened to death what Trump will try and get away with in a second term. To the news networks, to the right to protest, to net neutrality, to setting up an even more restrictive voting suppression system including using hackable machines. So as to ensure the Republicans, and Mitch's goal of a permanent Republican State.




If we do impeach, and the predictable happens, the Republicans in the Senate do not convict, we head into the election with a population that is "woke". Yes there will be those on the far right that will be seething mad and get out all their inbred family to the polls to vote for God's wonderful gift to their country, but just as many or more will be disgusted by what they hear, and will be disgusted also that Republicans did nothing about it.


So if its a choice between doing the right thing for the country but stirring up the pot resulting in more deplorables voting, but also more independents and Never Trumpers joining us.....even if this resulted in a wash...that both groups of new voters cancelled each other out, the country still comes out ahead. Although my bet would be greater numbers would come out for us, especially in some of the swing states, compared to last election.

So what is holding this back????? Sorry but their inaction has to raise questions about if there are prominent powerful Democrats that don't want some aspects of foreign dealings in Washington exposed either. I'm not saying this is so, but they open themselves up to this kind of conjecture by the MSM, and are not looking good optically with the Democratic leadership seemingly trying desperately to keep the lid on a barrel that is overflowing with reasons, and evidence, to impeach. I also think many "part time" Democratic voters will stay home being disgusted that the Democrats did NOT have the courage of their convictions.

So in the end, if we do NOT impeach, our votes will be depressed because of witnessing this lack of leadership and responsibility to defend the country from this pall darkening the nation. While theirs will be boosted even if we don't, because the message will still be that we are a massive threat to the great Donald the Savior of white America, and that we will impeach for sure if Republicans don't get a majority hold on Washington.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #48)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:24 PM

49. In the best of circumstances, in my opinion...


The Democrats could use the impeachment issue as an "insurance policy".

Especially if the economy turns south.

The country would be hard-pressed to withstand both a recession and an impeachment at the same time. It would be difficult.

With that in mind, the Democrats insurance policy would be to use the Courts and Congress' power to investigate, to determine whether or not Donald Trump should be impeached? They should be ready to impeach immediately after the election, assuming Donald Trump were to win the Presidency and the Democrats were to keep the House?

That would be one strategy that would make sense if they choose not to impeach at this time? Donald Trump is not going to get religion or experience some sort of great transformation between now and January 2021. It is a matter of national security that he be removed.

Perhaps that is their plan??

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Response to kentuck (Reply #49)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:04 PM

50. I do not think that an impeachment would happen AFTER Trump won a second term

Based on how much foot dragging there is now for it. It would come off as being sore losers to the tenth degree. It would come off as desparation. Like ...."Oh NOW they want to impeach?", and "if they thought it was so imperitive then they would have done it during or after the Mueller report", coming off as obvious political grandstatnding. Then in the 2022 midterms Repubicans would use that to scare their base to the polls.

I think you strike when the fire is hot. Anything could happen...a war with Iran, another "convenient" terrorist attack. Preferably using some new news story to launch it. Like just when we found out that Mueller revealed how Barr misrepresented his report. That was a great catylist to start. That was the perfect time. Now it is not as good a time. Nancy and Chuck blew that, they weakened our position by not acting then. Now it is almost a common held belief that Mueller found Trump innocent of everything. But IMO there is still time to salvage it before that new normal becomes the new history book "fact".

Basically if they don't, that will be used by Trump and the GOP to declare that inaction as PROOF that it was all phony fake news, and they had nothin'. And so that the Democrats wasted time and money dragging the country through their incessant baseless attacks meant to 'divide the country'.

And on the other hand it will depress Democratic voters who voted them into the House to DO SOMETHING! Only to find out Nancy is more concerned about passing another infrastructure bill in a good old bi-partisan way. And declare "victory!" that her bill wasn't watered down too too much.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #50)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:27 PM

52. You may be right about that?

Especially if he won the majority of the votes, unlike the last time.

But, it he had another Electoral College "victory", then I think impeachment could still be on the table.

However, it would be more difficult after the election than before.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 04:17 PM

16. The question is

will Republicans pay a heavier price if they convict v no conviction?

We do not need another 2016 situation where we lose even when we win. Thatís the system. Use it wisely.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 04:20 PM

17. if they cant get docs, and cant get witnesses to testify, no.

until the court starts ordering people to appear, and hand over evidence, all they have is hearsay.

it will take court orders to break through the stonewalling.
imho, this is what pelosi is waiting for.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:31 PM

35. This, exactly

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Response to mopinko (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 06:40 AM

44. Obstruction of Congress is an impeachable offense in itself.

I think that was one of the charges against Nixon?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #44)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:13 AM

45. as soon as he defies a subpoena, the hammer falls.

just like nixon.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 04:26 PM

18. Yes, many times over.

He has committed enough misconduct in plain sight to impeach. And any one of Muellerís multiple instances of obstruction would be enough to impeach.

I think the Democratic House is lining up further hard evidence, such as financial records, that will prove financial crimes. But conduct does not have to be criminal to be impeachable, so there will be a lot of articles when they pull the trigger, which I hope they will.

A competent House would have impeached him in 2017 just for violating the Emoluments Clause. Thatís on Ryan; Pelosi can add it to the pile of impeachable misconduct. Congress is the appropriate venue to seek a remedy here, unlike outside groups such as CREW who lack standing for a court challenge.

Other articles I hope theyíre considering include violations of the Presidential Records Act. Weíre supposed to get readouts of all meetings with foreign leaders, so we can see the president is really working for us. Trump has met secretly with Putin several times now, each time hiding the translatorís or witnessí notes.

Iíve said this elsewhere, but it DOES NOT MATTER ó AT ALL ó what the Senate does. If they show themselves to be spineless, gutless cowards afraid to call out a traitorous bunch, so be it. All the more fodder for 2020 attack ads against them.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 04:30 PM

19. I agree.

There is enough evidence to impeach ten times over.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:53 PM

41. Just his twitter account

can probably produce enough evidence of various and sundry charges.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 08:30 PM

21. Yes they do.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:13 PM

26. Republicans in 2019 still think Nixon was treated unfairly and shouldn't have resigned

You're really just banging your head against a brick wall here. Republicans don't care, and you can't make them care.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #26)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:21 PM

31. It's not the Republicans that have to care...

It is the Democrats.

It would be a big mistake to take their vote for granted.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:20 PM

30. I'll blame the Republicans if Trump is still on the ticket.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:31 PM

34. Not yet

Much of what we're basing our opinions about impeachment are things we've heard or suspect or actually know to be true, but the House doesn't have the hard evidence in its hands yet. The evidence is out there and they're working many different fronts to secure it. But at this point, there's really not enough evidence in hand to present to the American people - at least the majority who at this point haven't been convinced - a solid case for impeachment.

But we're getting there...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:41 PM

36. Of course

Anyone who says otherwise shouldn't be taken seriously.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 11:54 PM

42. Yes there is enough evidence to for the House to impeach

No, the Senate will not remove him from office.

I do not believe that there would be enough backlash to hurt the Dems in 2020. Trump will claim vindication if the Senate does not convict him, and he will claim vindication if the House does nothing. He will claim vindication no matter what. But if the Dems show some fight, they may convince some non voters that we are not going to stand for the current corruption. We should not worry that we might upset the Republicans and that they will say nasty things about us. Let's fight for the disenchanted progressives here rather than trying to get the narrow slice of voters who are undecided. Do what is right, do what is in the best interest of the people, and do what is best for America.

BTW, for those of you who say that Pelosi doesn't yet have the votes to impeach, I will bet that if she started twisting arms, she would quickly have the majority in favor of impeaching. She just hasn't done so yet.

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #42)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:06 AM

43. I think you are right about Pelosi...

But I don't think she would have to twist their arms very much.

To know what we know already, and do nothing, is unforgivable, in my opinion.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:05 PM

46. Time it right & put the GOP Senate on trial too

Make them vote, up or down, or refuse to take it up. Moscow Mitch will Garland it for sure. But that is also a choice.

Public exasperation that Trump is still in office will only build for the next 14.5 months. Senate refusal or acquittal is part of that emotion.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:28 PM

47. we need McConnell gone or indicted. Sure we can impeach.

but it goes nowhere in the Senate Nevertheless, if we impeach him they can't blame us for not stopping the disaster. McConnell is it.

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Response to librechik (Reply #47)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:52 PM

60. I believe we must impeach Trump

But...you raise a good idea. It would surely throw them for a loop if, out of the blue, no pun intended, we announce impeachment against McConnell. For a variety of things, not doing enough both before the 2016 elections, and now, securing our elections from Russian and foreign interference for one. And his cozy business relations with the Russian Oligarch that is building a plant in his district needs more transparency as well.

I don't think he is regarded nearly as highly as Trump is to the deplorables base. The Senate is rated very low in approval. If you can't cut the head of the snake off, cut the body of the snake off of the head.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:20 PM

51. We all had enough evidence two years ago.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 04:20 PM

61. The case needs to be strong enough that the Senate cannot avoid it.

Make the case so strong that when the Senate votes, each Senator will be on the record, and the public will take notice.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 03:00 PM

64. What good is evidence without will?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 09:24 AM

65. My 2 cents

If Trump is impeached and his crimes and misdemeanors laid out, slowly and painfully, for the people to see and chew on, Democrats will be less likely to stay home come election, some Trumpers might become a little less inclined to support Trump -- probably not a significant number, but some, and Independents will watch their TVs in earnest and vote in large numbers for whomever the Democrats finally put out there.

If Trump is not impeached, Democrats will still be likely to come out in surging numbers to vote against him, Republicans will still vote for their leader -- maybe with fewer staying home. And Independents, on whom the 2020 election teeters, will be less likely to be impressed with the Democrats and more likely to listen to the both-siders on their TVs and, well, stay home.

Impeachment puts it all on the front line. Impeachment will give Trump weeks and months of bad "optics" and give the Democrats more than ample opportunity to refer to the Mueller report and to Epstein and to Trump's immigrant wives and to the dipping economy brought about by Trump's incompetence and petulance.

Of course, timing is everything here. The Dems must impeach the bastard, of course, but when to start the proceedings? Clearly impeachment proceedings must begin at a time ripe for electoral politics, for the run up to the election. Lay all of his crimes and misdemeanors out on the table, let the GOP stutter and stammer over repeated questions about those crimes and misdemeanors. And then let the voters decide whether they want to try to get their country back or would prefer living in an America run by an authoritarian, criminal enterprise that views them as, in the words of Mittens, "takers" and leeches, vermin to be used to create greater and greater wealth for the wealthiest and greediest.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 11:46 AM

66. Is this a trick question?

The criminality in his campaign alone, the fact that he is not the duly elected president.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 12:30 PM

67. Strategy, my friend.

Before we take down Trump, we're going to have to take down his chief enabler in the Senate.

And seeing that he's now freaking out about being called Moscow Mitch, or Massacre Mitch, I'd say he's vulnerable.

If he gets taken down or politically neutralized, the rest of the GOP's support for Trump is likely to fall apart. At least enough to get a few of them to vote to convict.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 07:41 PM

68. Drumpf has to be impeached. Can you imagine the

damage he would do as a lame duck pResident? It would make the current shit show look like a golden age.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 09:37 PM

70. they have had enough evidence for a long, long time

and they're not going to do anything

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 11:06 PM

71. I'm starting to wonder if they are being blackmailed.

It doesn't make sense to me otherwise.

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