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Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:39 PM

Mass shootings overblown? Neil deGrasse Tyson suggests that's the case...

What do you think about this?



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Reply Mass shootings overblown? Neil deGrasse Tyson suggests that's the case... (Original post)
True Dough Aug 2019 OP
jcgoldie Aug 2019 #1
Polybius Aug 2019 #12
graeme_macquarrie Aug 2019 #32
Kablooie Aug 2019 #33
VMA131Marine Aug 2019 #35
Kablooie Aug 2019 #39
VMA131Marine Aug 2019 #147
Post removed Aug 2019 #46
StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #68
CharleyDog Aug 2019 #59
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #77
tinrobot Aug 2019 #140
Archae Aug 2019 #2
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #11
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #97
JackInGreen Aug 2019 #113
eleny Aug 2019 #3
dalton99a Aug 2019 #4
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #98
johnp3907 Aug 2019 #5
Cartoonist Aug 2019 #6
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #7
dalton99a Aug 2019 #10
graeme_macquarrie Aug 2019 #37
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #41
graeme_macquarrie Aug 2019 #120
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #126
graeme_macquarrie Aug 2019 #143
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #145
yardwork Aug 2019 #63
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #99
hlthe2b Aug 2019 #8
UniteFightBack Aug 2019 #44
targetpractice Aug 2019 #9
BBG Aug 2019 #13
Hav Aug 2019 #14
Retrograde Aug 2019 #51
live love laugh Aug 2019 #15
BlueTsunami2018 Aug 2019 #114
lpbk2713 Aug 2019 #16
rustysgurl Aug 2019 #17
delisen Aug 2019 #18
Snake Plissken Aug 2019 #19
Hoyt Aug 2019 #20
triron Aug 2019 #21
NoMoreRepugs Aug 2019 #22
flotsam Aug 2019 #23
Srkdqltr Aug 2019 #24
aikoaiko Aug 2019 #25
LisaL Aug 2019 #29
graeme_macquarrie Aug 2019 #34
aikoaiko Aug 2019 #38
Lucid Dreamer Aug 2019 #92
USALiberal Aug 2019 #95
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #100
spanone Aug 2019 #26
renate Aug 2019 #27
dalton99a Aug 2019 #36
50 Shades Of Blue Aug 2019 #28
Vinca Aug 2019 #30
hunter Aug 2019 #31
LudwigPastorius Aug 2019 #40
smirkymonkey Aug 2019 #60
pintobean Aug 2019 #42
Blue_true Aug 2019 #69
Post removed Aug 2019 #101
GeorgeGist Aug 2019 #43
Blecht Aug 2019 #45
ancianita Aug 2019 #47
Captain Stern Aug 2019 #48
pbmus Aug 2019 #66
ooky Aug 2019 #87
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #107
Captain Stern Aug 2019 #125
Jim__ Aug 2019 #49
Oneironaut Aug 2019 #50
skypilot Aug 2019 #91
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #104
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #102
Everyman Jackal Aug 2019 #52
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #53
bronxiteforever Aug 2019 #55
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John Fante Aug 2019 #56
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yardwork Aug 2019 #65
treestar Aug 2019 #79
grumpyduck Aug 2019 #57
SlogginThroughIt Aug 2019 #58
yardwork Aug 2019 #62
pwb Aug 2019 #64
Kid Berwyn Aug 2019 #67
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #108
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Initech Aug 2019 #70
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2019 #71
Kurt V. Aug 2019 #73
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #117
Joe941 Aug 2019 #72
Crunchy Frog Aug 2019 #74
jberryhill Aug 2019 #151
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VOX Aug 2019 #76
Takket Aug 2019 #78
Heartstrings Aug 2019 #80
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melman Aug 2019 #89
Talitha Aug 2019 #90
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skypilot Aug 2019 #96
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #103
MarcA Aug 2019 #105
Goodheart Aug 2019 #106
customerserviceguy Aug 2019 #110
58Sunliner Aug 2019 #111
JackInGreen Aug 2019 #112
rockfordfile Aug 2019 #119
JackInGreen Aug 2019 #135
dlk Aug 2019 #115
Recursion Aug 2019 #116
True Dough Aug 2019 #118
Judi Lynn Aug 2019 #121
True Dough Aug 2019 #133
madville Aug 2019 #122
sir pball Aug 2019 #138
misanthrope Aug 2019 #123
Rainbow Droid Aug 2019 #124
YOHABLO Aug 2019 #129
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Recursion Aug 2019 #128
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Bengus81 Aug 2019 #131
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Kilgore Aug 2019 #134
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sir pball Aug 2019 #137
Generic Other Aug 2019 #139
elocs Aug 2019 #141
milestogo Aug 2019 #144
True Dough Aug 2019 #146
DeminPennswoods Aug 2019 #148
aidbo Aug 2019 #149
aidbo Aug 2019 #150

Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:41 PM

1. Yeah well Sorry Neil

But none of those other things happen to a couple dozen innocent children on a normal school day.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:48 PM

12. Sadly, lots of innocent children die everyday due to medical errors, the flu, and car accidents

With that being said, of course I support gun-control to bring the numbers of the shootings down.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:18 PM

32. Don't forget child abuse, human trafficking and child sexual abuse.. N/T

 

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Response to Polybius (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:18 PM

33. Those are accidents and the government has laws to minimize them.

These shootings are murders and the government does nothing to minimize them.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #33)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:25 PM

35. Medical errors are entirely preventable

They are not accidents

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #35)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:00 PM

39. They are accidents in that the doctor did not intend to harm deliberately.

I'm sure most hope the error will go undetected without negative consequences.

Also there are laws and procedures designed to prevent medical errors.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #39)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 01:00 AM

147. I can't believe you wrote that thinking it would be a good answer

Imagine if there were 500 airline passenger deaths per day due to pilot mistakes. Nobody would ever get on an airplane!

The fact that there are so few airline passenger deaths every year is because there is an agency, the NTSB, dedicated to understanding what went wrong in a crash and proposing measures to prevent similar chains of events from occurring.

The medical profession could easily implement the same kind of thing. To say that the doctors hope the mistakes go unnoticed is completely unacceptable. That would be one big reason why there are 500 deaths per day due to medical errors. It's not enough, in the medical profession, to intend not to harm. Doctors and all medical staff need to be proactive about preventing mistakes or catching them early before any harm is done.

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #35)


Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #35)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 05:06 PM

68. Medical errors are not intentional. Most are just mistakes

And unless and until people become infallible and eliminate human error from our existence, comparing medical errors with intentional, malicious mass murder is a non-starter.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #33)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:32 PM

59. in fact, our "leaders" are on the side of the weapons factory, and actively lobby for/praise them as

"patriotic." Our government wants MORE GUNS. Laws are passed to make shootings "stand your ground" and no permits, no checks at all for a "guns everywhere" policy. More guns is always the answer.

And what do you know? The prime government leader, the man with all the power will do nothing, and nothing will be done, again, so we can all tune in to watch the body bags.

(When we don't enact laws to limit guns, the only answer will be for more militarization of American life: more hired guns to monitor our life at the grocery store, the mall, the schools... I predict that will be the NRA/Republican answer. The other answer will be war, more war, patriotic war, because that will really tie the Democrats hands.)

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #33)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:31 PM

77. Yes, that's a good way to make the distinction.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:49 AM

140. There is no organization that dontates to Republicans to promote car accidents.

We do have one that donates to Republicans to promote guns.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:42 PM

2. He's right, and our "If it bleeds, it leads" news media doesn't help one bit.

"Grab the ratings, get the headlines, we'll stick to the facts later..."

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:47 PM

11. No he's not, Trump influenced terrorism on PoC is deplorable and not what we expect

... accidents and murder, etc among worlds 3rd largest populated country is horrible but not different.

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 10:52 PM

97. No. It sounds like he supports mass shootings. Trying to make it okay.

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #97)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 12:04 AM

113. My friend

Please, if thata your interpretation, do more consideration before speaking (offer me a 'but whatabout what he...' that's a nonstarter)

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:43 PM

3. Intentional violence stands apart from the rest

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:43 PM

4. Let's not forget heart disease and cancer

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 10:52 PM

98. What does that have to do with right-wing terrorist mass shootings?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:44 PM

5. Smart people often say and do stupid things.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:44 PM

6. Except for the last one

We are doing what we can to reduce the others. We aren't doing anything to stop gun deaths.

Have you gotten your flu shot, Neil?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:45 PM

7. Niel, none of those were Trump influenced terrorist attacks. Come on man, context matters

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:47 PM

10. Exactly.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:49 PM

37. Really?

 

The Dayton shooter killed his sister and her boyfriend outside that club. I don't think Drumpf whispered in his ear on that one. There may be other things in play on that one. We will need to see what facts surface.

No doubt the El Paso shooter was a white Nationalist, just like many before him- from the KKK in the first half of last century to Timothy McVeigh. But the San Bernadino and Pulse shootings had nothing to do with White Nationalist/Supremacy movements.
The common factor most of these shootings have in common is radicalized males, that in my opinion are mentally ill and delusional.

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Response to graeme_macquarrie (Reply #37)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:03 PM

41. 6 of the 9 people killed in Ohio were black Donald Trump is stoking racial animus against PoC ...

... both of those statements are facts not in dispute.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #41)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:44 AM

120. So an avowed leftist-

 

Some one that posted they would happily vote for Elizabeth Warren;
Posted "Vote Blue for God's Sake" on November 2, 2018;
Posted "this is bad" in response to the November 2016 presidential election results;
Posted "F*uck John McCain" on the day he died;
Posted that he wanted Socialism and wasn't "waiting around for it";
Posted "Kill Every Fascist" in response to an article on a rally on the Charlottesville anniversary;
The Green County Board of Elections lists his party affiliation as "Dem".
Those facts are not in dispute either.

I stated that while I believed the El Paso mass shooting was white Nationalist inspired, I was waiting on more facts on this guy. Something didn't smell right.
Sometimes numbers are just anomalies. You don't have information yet on those wounded by this maniac. It could bear out your contention or not.
In any case it does not appear he was radicalized by the Talking Yam.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

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Response to graeme_macquarrie (Reply #120)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:26 AM

126. No one on the left has demonized people at clubs as invaders or people who infest so your false

... equivalence is noted.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #126)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 12:06 PM

143. That's funny..

 

I never said this individual was radicalized or incited by any one left or right. I said that the odds that he was mentally ill were very high, and it was unlikely, given his past statements, that he was committing a racial motivated hate crime incited by the comments of President Cheeto.

The false equivalence is yours my friend- equating the race of people murdered as proof that this was a racially motivated hate crime.

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Response to graeme_macquarrie (Reply #143)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 12:20 PM

145. 6 of the 9 people killed in Ohio were black, it sure looks like it was racially motivated because ..

... people usually don't do that even if they're sick out of their heads unless its racially motivated.

OK, I'll wait ... but the way it looks on its face is racially motivated and its common place for he media and the government to hold out calling something a hate crime if a white shooter terrorist is involved.

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Response to graeme_macquarrie (Reply #37)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:41 PM

63. And weapons of mass murder. Dayton killed 9 people in 30 seconds.

No civilian needs that kind of weapon.

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Response to graeme_macquarrie (Reply #37)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 10:56 PM

99. Most right-wing mass shootings are influenced by other right-wing pos

It's mentally ill to be one of these un-American fascist republicans to begin with.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:46 PM

8. Yet what is different with the others? They are both preventable and we TRY to do so

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:11 PM

44. This

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:46 PM

9. Love this response from Jaboukie Young-White...

... Daily Show correspondent...


?s=20

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:49 PM

13. Agree

And media circuses are aggravating and not entertaining in the least.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:50 PM

14. It's not helping

The thing is, when all the other things happen, for most we try to find the reason for it in order to fix it (medical errors, car accidents if there were mechanical errors). We don't just acknowledge deaths caused by the flu with thoughts and prayers, we try to do something to save lifes instead.
There are things that just happen, others are so unnecessary and could be addressed to at least diminish the consequences. Saying to look over there is a distraction that doesn't help to address the problem or make it better.

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Response to Hav (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:46 PM

51. Very well put(nt)

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:51 PM

15. I bet Republicans love him ❤️❤️❤️❤️

🙄

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Response to live love laugh (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 12:25 AM

114. Yep, every Тяцмр humper on my Facebook feed is posting this.

They love him all of a sudden.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:51 PM

16. I don't see how mass murder can be covered too strenuously.



Maybe he lives in an alternate universe.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:52 PM

17. As a scientist, looking at raw numbers ...

... and attempting to compare apples to apples, sure, I get it.

But these aren't apples to apples. Some of your numbers, Neil, are accidents. Some are natural illness. Some are due to mental illness. Seriously? You're going to attempt to compare those to the innocents mowed down yesterday (and all the others killed in mass shootings)?

Neil, stop and think for a moment. You are a smart man. Knowledge is power. Being smart also assumes you will use your knowledge intelligently. Big fail here, sir.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:53 PM

18. ..and we take action to reduce all those other deaths

we investigate, we educate, we draw conclusions, we regulate, we take reasonable actions to mitigate.

In each of the above we run up against people who don't want to do what is necessary to save lives----

but we don't for example stop developing flu vaccines because people die from other events.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:53 PM

19. How about this statistic

0 people would have been mass murdered in White Supremacist Right Wing domestic terrorist attacks yesterday if Trump didn't incite them

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:56 PM

20. Tyson has written some excellent gun condemnation in the past. He's wrong here, though.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:56 PM

21. Reminds me of Noam Chomsky. Intellectualization does nothing to address the

problem. If fact it can be unnecessarily distracting.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:59 PM

22. Tyson is providing perspective IMO. The suicide and

homicide numbers are primarily gun related.... and on a per day basis. We live in a gun crazed violent society, despite all our collective economic wealth.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 01:59 PM

23. But there is a large difference

None of your other causes inhibit the enjoyment of the inherent right to enjoy your life in public places without fear. How do you build a working system of government when people are to afraid to exercise " the right of the people peaceably to assemble"? Shouldn't the 1st amendment trump(ahem) the 2nd?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:00 PM

24. But how does this change the horror of these shootings??

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:01 PM

25. Neil deGrasse Tyson is correct. We need to take gun violence seriously


and mass shootings are tragic, but they need to be addressed in context of all threats.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:03 PM

29. How many suicides he lists were committed with guns?

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Response to LisaL (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:22 PM

34. Most likely about half, statistically speaking

 

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Response to LisaL (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:50 PM

38. Probably a majority, but banning "assault weapons" or even...



...all semi-autos wonít change that.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:32 PM

92. TN study 2016-17 suicide distrubution

TN study 2016-17 suicide distribution

63.3% Firearms
18.5% Suffocation
13.1% Poison
5.1% Other

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:51 PM

95. Lol, ok! Nt

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 10:57 PM

100. They are not the same. Of all course deaths are tragic.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:01 PM

26. The difference is that these mass shootings were incited by the Potus

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:02 PM

27. this is a thought he should have kept to himself longer than 24 hours after two mass murders n/t

What point is he trying to make? That these mass murders shouldn't be made into such big a deal?

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Response to renate (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:26 PM

36. +1. "Did you get shot by a MAGA terrorist? Calm down, let's look at the statistics..."



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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:03 PM

28. Way to dilute.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:05 PM

30. I totally disagree. The mass shootings, while horrible on their own, also

draw attention to 2 of the other things he noted: suicide and homicide via handgun. That said, the time for talking is over. Our "brave" politicians need to step up to the plate and do what is right.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 02:09 PM

31. Maybe guns should be regulated in the same aggressive way medicine and automobiles are.

We don't allow just anyone to practice medicine, we require prescriptions for certain medicines and don't allow some medicines to be prescribed at all, and we require new cars to meet certain safety standards. We enforce traffic laws and build roads and highways to minimize certain kinds of accidents

Regulations are imperfect, and not always appropriate or effective, but there's no reason guns should be exempt.

If someone was going around promoting suicide or the spread of flu germs or driving on the wrong side of the road they'd be rightfully regarded as dangerous.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:01 PM

40. While his statistics may be accurate,...


nobody wants to hear that shit right now.

Fuck off, Neal. Sometimes it takes a little emotion (namely disgust, outrage, and most importantly, empathy) to overcome the bought-and-paid-for laws and policies that lead to crimes like this.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:34 PM

60. +1000

He's showing an extreme lack of compassion and situational awareness in this case.

You aren't helping, Neal. This is not the time.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:05 PM

42. He's absolutely right.

 

The media and gun control advocates have a vested interest in making a spectacle of these tragedies.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #42)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 05:19 PM

69. His examples are bullshit.

Only in the case of handgun violence is a person targeted to be murdered. There is an enormous significance in that fact. There is no reason to have guns that shoot more than 6 bullets in society, in a battlefield, yes, but not in society. A person that can't take down a dangerous home invader or violent attacker with 6 or less rounds should get their asses to a gun range and practice.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #42)


Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:08 PM

43. Buy better weed, Neil.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:11 PM

45. Duh

How many of those 250 suicides are committed with a firearm?

What a stupid, tone-deaf thing for Tyson to say.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:20 PM

47. They're not even in the same category, Mr Tyson. Your numbers are losses we're SUPPOSED to reconcile

ourselves to.

Mass murder is not.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:27 PM

48. He's right.

Even as far as a percentage of murders committed with guns go, the shootings that happened yesterday are a small percentage.

These shootings touch us more than the shootings that happen every single day because they're dramatic. They're dramatic because a whole bunch of people get murdered at one time. We've come to accept the slow drip of murders that are committed with guns every single day.

Whenever one of these types of shootings is committed with an 'assualt' rifle, there are a lot of calls to ban 'assault' rifles.....but when one of them is committed by someone using a hand gun or shotgun..not so much. That's always puzzled me.

If the goal is to save lives, and if we're assuming we can do that by banning certain sorts of guns....why in the heck are we concentrating on 'assault' weapons, or any kind of rifle? Shouldn't we be trying to get rid of the actual kind of gun that kills the most people?

Handguns kill far more people than any kind of rifle. It's not even close.

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Response to Captain Stern (Reply #48)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 05:03 PM

66. Better chance of banning Jesus

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Response to Captain Stern (Reply #48)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 07:41 PM

87. Hand guns don't belong in public either. We need laws for both if we ever want to start

addressing the root cause. Nobody needs an assault weapon for personal use. Hand guns are okay for protection at home, but not needed in public. It should be a felony to be caught with a hand gun in public, or to be caught with an assault weapon anywhere, if we want to start fixing the problem. We don't need society running around with all these guns. This country needs a paradigm shift and get tough policies on guns if we ever want to stop the killing.

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Response to Captain Stern (Reply #48)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:11 PM

107. No these shootings are hopefully wake up call to the right-wing fascist that are a major threat

No these shootings are hopefully wake up call to the right-wing fascist that are a major threat to our country.
The Republicans hate America.

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #107)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:19 AM

125. I don't understand what you're saying here.

How would these shootings be a wake up call to the fascists?

Seems, if anything, they would be wake up calls to the rest of us.

However, I doubt they will really wake anyone up. The mass shootings that weren't committed by right-wingers haven't seemed to really cause us to get anything done, so I doubt the ones committed by right wing nuts will either.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:38 PM

49. Often our emotions respond to the things we can change.

People are born, get sick, and die every day. I wish everyone could live forever, or at least to the point where they've had enough of life. That's not the way it is, and there's not a whole lot we can do about that in the short term.

We can do something about people with military-type weapons walking into public spaces and murdering innocent people.

Neil deGrasse Tyson needs to apply some context to his numbers.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:46 PM

50. Imo, his point is not that mass shootings are overblown, but that the rest of these things don't get

enough coverage.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #50)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:25 PM

91. He is a smart guy so...

...IF that is what he meant he should have been able to say it as succinctly as you did. But the fact is that all of those tragic things he listed DO get coverage if they happen in significant numbers over a relatively short period of time. Mass shootings do a lot of damage in a very short time.

Frankly, his reasoning here is just as shitty as that of those 2nd Amendment advocates who think that these shootings is just something we have to live with in order to enjoy our "freedom" under that amendment.

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Response to skypilot (Reply #91)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:08 PM

104. I think this shows that he's a idiot. Maybe owes somebody something

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #50)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:03 PM

102. Which is not true. A lot of that gets attention as it should.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:51 PM

52. 300 to the Flu

 

And how many of those 300 received a flu shot?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 03:59 PM

53. I really like him.. but he sure missed the boat on this one! All of the above mentioned save one

could be gone, or at least greatly diminished if we had decent gun laws!

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #53)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:02 PM

55. +1

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:01 PM

54. not all deaths are the same

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:02 PM

56. Now think about how many more deaths we'd have

without traffic laws, flu vaccines, suicide prevention hotlines, etc. Imagine if we took the "thoughts and prayers" route in every one of these areas?

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Response to John Fante (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:37 PM

61. Exactly!

One of the best twitter responses on that thread below:
Rekalty
@Rekalty

Replying to
@neiltyson
We're working to prevent medical errors.
We're working to prevent the flu.
We're working to prevent suicide.
We're working to prevent car accident.
We're doing fuck all about mass shootings.

Spot the difference, Neil.

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Response to John Fante (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:43 PM

65. Exactly. I'm old enough to remember what it took to pass seatbelt laws.

There are many fewer traffic fatalities now.

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Response to John Fante (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:31 PM

79. Exactly. Who gives disease

A second. Amendment right to exist with no attempt at a cure ? Who thinks nothing can
Prevent traffic accidents or make them less damaging ?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:18 PM

57. Sorry, Neil,

that's total bullshit. Apples and oranges. Mass shootings are premeditated criminal or terrorist acts.

Yes they're played up (so to speak) by the MSM because that's what they do, but you don't diminish them because the numbers are lower.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:28 PM

58. Wow what a completely terrible take.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:39 PM

62. Jeez. Logic fail, there.

Just because bad things happen doesn't mean we shouldn't try to prevent them.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 04:43 PM

64. Accidents and Murder are two different things Neil.

.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 05:06 PM

67. Fuck you, Neil deGrasse Tyson!

Fuck you!

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Response to Kid Berwyn (Reply #67)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:13 PM

108. If I lost my kid or loved one to these right-wing terrorist, then I would be pissed by his remark.

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #108)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:41 PM

109. Each life is infinitely precious.

All are irreplaceable.

How he could compare those lost to accident ó or disease or malpractice ó with those taken by mass murder is beyond my understanding.

He is an intelligent man. I hope he realizes he made a mistake. There is no rationalizing violence.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 05:21 PM

70. I have to say that I'm on team Smash Mouth here:

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 05:37 PM

71. He's right, of course.

But mass shootings are news the way a major airplane crash is news even though, as he posted, 200 people a day die from car accidents. People freak out about a plane crash (and the last one in this country with fatalities was in February, 2009) and pay no attention to the many who die in cars every day.

I don't want to minimize the horror of these mass murders, but statistically speaking, hardly anyone is likely to die this way. Far, far more likely to die from any of the other ways he listed.

That said, I'm in favor of outright gun confiscation.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #71)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:11 PM

73. he is not right, of course. all things are connected and he more than most should know this.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #71)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:22 AM

117. None of those are the same. The serious threat is from right-wing terrorist like the mass shooter

"I don't want to minimize the horror of these mass murders" But you did. None of those things you said have nothing to do with the mass shooting. By posting airplane crashes and other tragedies has no connection whatsoever.

It's a right-wing attempt to minimize. The terrorist right-winger is just like all the other un-American right-wingers.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:07 PM

72. We need to work on all those things on his list.

 

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:22 PM

74. 911 was fairly minor too, in the grand scheme of things.

I guess that was blown all out of proportion too.

How do the latest mass shooting fatalities stack up against the number of measles fatalities in this country over the past 6 months? Does he think we're making too much of a fuss about unvaccinated kids too?

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #74)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 05:41 AM

151. Well, screw all the other first responders injured in the line of duty


I still donít understand why only 9/11 first responders get federal assistance, and the vast majority of first responders injured in the line of duty on any other day of the year in any other place can just drop dead as far as weíre concerned.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:24 PM

75. The rest are what we expect

As part of life. The mass shootings donít seem that way.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:25 PM

76. I expect better from NdeGT. His tweet is devoid of empathy.

And it does not factor in the negative impact on each victimís circle of family, friends, fellow students, work colleagues, and close acquaintances. Each death affects dozens, possibly even hundreds of other people.

As itís worded, his tweet is ready-rolled cut-and-paste content for RWers.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:31 PM

78. here is exactly what i thought of it........... my reply......... i then unfollowed him.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:32 PM

80. Just lost a lot of respect for the "star man"....

Thoughts and prayers for your sexual assault victims!

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Response to Heartstrings (Reply #80)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 11:42 AM

142. You and me both! nt

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:37 PM

81. Were the last 24 hours'

Medical error fatalities due to the inflammation of racism by the president?

Were the cases of flu due to the negligence of repuke politicians to line their coffers with NRA/Russia money?

Were the 250 suicides caused by the lies that Sandy Hook was a hoax?

Did 200 car accidents happen b/c the second amendment guarantees hot headed white males get to use cars?

40 to handguns? kind of proves the point of the emotional response doesn't it?

Often our snarkiness responds more to deluded smugness than to purposeful murder.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:38 PM

82. Data shows that

when some get accused of sexual harassment tend to take a right wing turn. Like Louis CK...

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Response to obnoxiousdrunk (Reply #82)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:51 PM

94. IKR.

If he's douchey enough to post something like this (and this soon after the event) maybe I should take a closer look at this guy.

I used to love Louis CK too but now not so much.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:41 PM

83. WTF NdGT? nt

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 06:41 PM

84. Neil can be a little disconnected at times. Nt

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 07:04 PM

85. With all due respect

Hospital errors, the flu, and car accidents are not intentional, suicides are intentional, but not directed at random victims, and nor are most hand gun killings.

Just about all deaths and injuries in these mass shootings are people whose lives are suddenly destroyed at random at the whim and mercy of a nut case they had never met, with whom they had no quarrel.

If THAT doesnít set these victims apart, well who am I to argue with statistics?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 07:37 PM

86. 4,084 African-Americans were lynched between 1877 and 1950 in the South

Last edited Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:28 AM - Edit history (1)

according to the Equal Justice Initiative. Should we not get emotional about that? Even though far more people died of the flu during those same years? Or because more people are dying per year now in mass shootings?

The difference between these white supremacist shootings and flu, suicide, and even homicides is that they are terrorism, designed to instill fear and terror extending far beyond the direct victims. Surely Neil deGrasse Tyson understands that the growing threat of lethal white supremacist hatred is more horrifying than mistakes, accidents or the flu?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 07:59 PM

88. So Neil, feel free to if jump off a building and throw your life away...

It will only be 1 lost person.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:11 PM

89. This is a really bad take

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:19 PM

90. Neil, the victims were intentionally murdered.

Pull your head out of your ass and grow a heart, ffs!

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 08:48 PM

93. We actually try to address those other problems

Our cars are safety featured like crazy.
We give flu shots.
We have a LOT of suicide prevention programs.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 10:44 PM

96. What do I think?

I think that this kind of fixation on trying to have impeccable logic, math, and statistics is turning people into cold, heartless assholes.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:06 PM

103. Anybody agrees with him is a republican. That has been their attempt right after the mass shooting

The Nazi-Republicans are trying to okay the deaths of these people. I encountered the Sandy hook deniers at the same time. These people are a pos.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:11 PM

105. False Equivalencies.

How many people have the flu each day compared to how many die.
How may auto accidents result in injury and death compared to the number of such accidents?
How many die due to medical accidents compared to the number of such accidents?
How many suicidal people attempt suicide each day compared to the number successful?
Then how many are murdered and injured by How Many assault weapon attacks?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:11 PM

106. WHAT THE FUCK is this SPURIOUS BULLSHIT?

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:42 PM

110. His point is well taken

We lose a lot of people to all kinds of things, but because they happen one at a time, we lower the emphasis we put on them. We did that with the deaths on 9/11, also.

However, others make good points about what we are trying to prevent, versus what we do not try to prevent. Of course, that assumes that new laws will be effective in preventing what we attempt to prevent.

Removing some guns from our society (you cannot possibly get rid of them all) simply makes the remaining guns more expensive, and thus, more valuable.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sun Aug 4, 2019, 11:43 PM

111. Apples and oranges. The trauma surrounding a mass shooting and murder differ IMO.

The rest are sad facts of life that while possibly traumatic, are known risks of living. I have PTSD from a car wreck, but I've also coped with PTSD from a violent, life threatening assault and it was 20 times worse and it was not easy to climb out of that black hole. The wreckage took years to recover from. I saw a segment of 60 minutes and the two parents who lost a daughter to the guy who shot up the movie theater talked about the trajectory of their experience. Their surviving son still gets threats. Just look at the Sandy Hook parents and what they have been through. Sorry Neal-way off base.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 12:02 AM

112. Scientist states compelling indication

The peerblindness of spectacle we have.


Is roasted for his trouble

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Response to JackInGreen (Reply #112)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:38 AM

119. He's trying to minimize the right-wing terrorism in our country.

None of those things he said has anything to do with what happen.

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #119)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:16 AM

135. But they do about how we perceive tragedy

And hes obviously correct. Thank you for being a prime example.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 12:49 AM

115. Another Example that Book Smart Doesn't Always Translate into Life Smart

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:21 AM

116. I mean, it's why you shouldn't be paralyzed in fear about being shot at a mall

You're in greater danger objectively of being crushed by a vending machine. It doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix the problem.

Personally I find it really strange that every category of crime is at historic lows except shooting a shitload of strangers in a public space.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #116)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:32 AM

118. Good points! n/t

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 01:57 AM

121. Any time a distinguished person of color makes a statement regarding a national situation, you know

by now, if you have been watching a long time, some one is going to gallop out from under his rock to try to drag that statement to a forum to try to use to attrack other racists to attack the distinguished (uppity, in some eyes, apparently) person.

It ALWAYS happens, and Neil deGrasse Tyson has been attacked relentlessly by people posing as Democrats over the years. There are always fellow "great minds" desperate to launch, in their finest imitations of thoughtful commentary, their reasons that some man/woman of color is not nearly as "smart" as he/she thinks, and how much he or she sucks.

This tactic doesn't fool anyone, everyone sees it for what it is.

Nel deGrasse has every right in the world to make statements to whomever is interviewing him, or reading his comments. He continues to be incredibly intelligent, awakened, well-intentioned, and amazingly socially aware. I appreciate his comment "Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data," and I have no doubt at all he does NOT support every vicious clown in the country having his/her own armory at home.

Think twice, post once.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #121)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:22 AM

133. As the OP who shared NDT's tweet with this forum

I'm going to make it crystal clear, after reading your post, that I most certainly am not "galloping out from under my rock" or attempting to "attract other racists" (I'm not a racist myself).

Just in case the insinuation in your post is directed at me, you'll notice that I pass no judgement in this thread. I simply asked other DUers to chime in with their thoughts on NDT's tweet. The reason I did that is because I have long admired Neil's intellect. However, when I read his tweet, it created some cognitive dissonance for me. Here's this individual whom I respect stating something that comes across as flawed and rather callous.

I would have shared the tweet on this forum if it came from Jon Stewart or Elizabeth Warren, prominent WHITE people whom I also admire.

It seems to me that your closing advice, "Think twice, post once," is something NDT should have followed before sharing this particular tweet with the public.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:15 AM

122. There were 978 shootings in Chicago from Jan 1st to June 30th 2019

Mostly affecting people of color. Barely gets a mention in the national media. Just about every weekend in Chicago is at the mass shooting numbers level and yet most don't talk about it.

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Response to madville (Reply #122)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:33 AM

138. Majority with handguns, also.

While mass shooters with black rifles get by far the most attention, the daily handgun carnage on our city streets is the true problem we should be addressing first.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 02:49 AM

123. Here's what he means

All of Sunday night, CNN has preempted its scheduled programming and run all-capital "headlines" of "BREAKING NEWS" across its screen for a pair of stories that are 24 hours old.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 04:25 AM

124. Don't throw him under the bus for being right.

And don't twist his words and infer something that isn't there. Not a good look.

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Response to Rainbow Droid (Reply #124)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:39 AM

129. You could also say that statistically those who died in 9/11 was rather 'irrelevant'.

It's the evil nature of the act that is so disturbing. It's the terror that's involved. Statistically mass shootings are rare, but their impact is way larger.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:33 AM

127. Well then I guess it's okay to get a AR and mow down a shopping mall full of children.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:38 AM

128. If I could snap my fingers and get rid of either assault weapons or handguns, I'd pick handguns

Also I think a lot of people live in fear of being mowed down in the mall or a movie theater when it's much more dangerous to drive to them. If we're living in fear then terrorism is working.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 06:43 AM

130. For everything on that list...

we are doing or have done many things to prevent them. We can't do it 100% but we can work on it with reason, logic, information and research.

Medical errors occur because, well, people are people. But look how far we have come from the days when surgeons did not even know to wash their hands.

The flu used to kill many more people and vaccines are developed for many strains of flu.

Suicide is probably the hardest to prevent, but there are medications that can help some people and there are many groups out there opening up to say "we are here" for those who find themselves at a low point.

The cars we have today seem majorly better as far as surviving accidents and we have mandated seat belt use and have engineered amazing child restraint seats.

The last one...well, our society has far to go in this area. I would like to see a time when we have evolved past killer instincts and "desires". Most of us seem to be there, but many don't seem to go along.

I think the issue of regulating guns seems to fit well with this list. We can see where changes have happened with each of these examples. With gun use, we have almost done nothing since the days when the 2nd amendment was written.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:23 AM

131. 200 car accidents--how many did that used to be in 48 hrs Neil???

Look at what has been made LAW for cars over the decades,look at how cars are now able to crumple in a wreck instead of being built like a tank which didn't work.

Now just WHAT has Gov done to prevent these WHITE GUY mass MURDERS?? NOTHING................

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:30 AM

132. And in the grand scheme of things, rounding up a few dozen Jews

for extermination was no big deal either?

Context matters.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:50 AM

134. Thank You Neil

For stating what should be obvious to most people.....

"Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data"

But usually is not.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:24 AM

136. "Car accidents" is a bullshit right-wing argument.

Cars are machines created with the purpose of making it easier for people to get from one place to another. They were not created with the point of killing things. On the other hand, that's the only purpose as to the existence of guns.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:29 AM

137. Tasteless and tone-deaf but that last stat is very telling.

Every month or so, more people are murdered with handguns than are shot with rifles over the course of a full year.

AWBs are emotionally appealing, but the cold numbers say we should be focusing 100% on handguns first.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 10:34 AM

139. There's a big difference between intentional and unintentional deaths

Tyson needs to stick to what he knows.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 11:30 AM

141. He is right, it was insensitive to post that so soon after the shootings.

He destroyed the message he was trying to make.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 12:10 PM

144. Maybe he's so smart and successful that he's not black anymore.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:55 PM

146. NDT has apologized for his tweet on mass shootings

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 02:13 AM

148. Facts are facts, but

why point it out? I suppose it's like citing statistics on how safe airline travel is right after a crash with few or no survivors.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 03:09 AM

149. Why did Neil use 48 hours as the time frame to talk about, though?

 

The shootings were less than 13 hours apart.

Heís talking about averages of course
So using his numbers in 13 hours you get:
135 deaths due to medical errors.
81 to the flu.
68 to suicide.
54 to car accidents.
11 to homicide via handgun.

And 34 in these two terroristic mass shootings. To me they donít seem so insignificant now.

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Response to aidbo (Reply #149)

Tue Aug 6, 2019, 03:49 AM

150. Also some of his numbers seem suspect.

 

The medical error deaths number seems really high. I found this article about them.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-medical-errors-really-the-third-most-common-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-2019-edition/
...specifically a rather poor study out of The Johns Hopkins that estimated that 250,000 to 400,000 deaths per year are due to medical errors, I pointed out how these figures are vastly inflated and donít even make any sense on the surface. For one thing, there are only 2.7 million total deaths per year in the US, which would mean that these estimates, if accurate, would translate into 9% to 15% of all deaths being due to medical errors. Those numbers just donít make sense. Itís even worse than that, though. This particular study looked at hospital-based deaths, of which there are around 715,000 per year, which would imply that these estimates, if accurate, would mean that medical errors cause between 35% and 56% of all in-hospital deaths, numbers that are highly implausible...

So letís say that this studyís estimates of how many people die from AEMTs and, in particular, from medical misadventure, are better estimates than the ďthird leading cause of deathĒ studies. (I happen to think that it is, even if it might have somewhat underestimated AEMTs.) Does that mean thereís no problem? Of course not, one death from medical error is too many. Roughly 5,200 deaths a year from AEMT and 108,000 deaths in which an AEMT was contributory are too many.


And as for flu deaths, according to this article, (https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/) 80000 people died from the flu in 2017, but:
ďThatís huge,Ē said Dr. William Schaffner, a Vanderbilt University vaccine expert. The tally was nearly twice as much as what health officials previously considered a bad year, he said.
In recent years, flu-related deaths have ranged from about 12,000 to ó in the worst year ó 56,000, according to the CDC.
(56000 deaths annually would be about 300 in 48 hours)

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