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Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:19 PM

Michael Moore: Romney will win in November

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/michael-moore-mitt-romney_n_1843824.html

' To assume that the other side are just a bunch of ignoramuses who are supported by people who believe that Adam and Eve rode on dinosaurs 6,000 years ago is to completely misjudge the opposition."

Moore said he believes that if the election were conducted "American Idol"-style, and Americans were able to vote from their couches, Obama "would win hands down."


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121 replies, 16265 views

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Arrow 121 replies Author Time Post
Reply Michael Moore: Romney will win in November (Original post)
superpatriotman Aug 2012 OP
PDJane Aug 2012 #1
pnwmom Aug 2012 #36
renate Aug 2012 #61
PDJane Aug 2012 #81
get the red out Aug 2012 #2
bamacrat Aug 2012 #4
Jennicut Aug 2012 #5
Vogon_Glory Aug 2012 #8
Cal33 Aug 2012 #88
Vogon_Glory Aug 2012 #102
superpatriotman Aug 2012 #10
pnwmom Aug 2012 #38
milwaukeelib33 Aug 2012 #41
get the red out Aug 2012 #74
JI7 Aug 2012 #104
gateley Aug 2012 #27
PatSeg Aug 2012 #57
gateley Aug 2012 #59
Vogon_Glory Aug 2012 #103
Cleita Aug 2012 #26
Scootaloo Aug 2012 #62
ProSense Aug 2012 #3
sharp_stick Aug 2012 #7
cali Aug 2012 #24
sharp_stick Aug 2012 #39
cali Aug 2012 #77
sharp_stick Aug 2012 #91
maryellen99 Aug 2012 #58
Skink Aug 2012 #6
rbrnmw Aug 2012 #11
rbrnmw Aug 2012 #9
Archae Aug 2012 #12
superpatriotman Aug 2012 #15
Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2012 #84
former9thward Aug 2012 #115
Manifestor_of_Light Sep 2012 #118
former9thward Sep 2012 #119
Manifestor_of_Light Sep 2012 #120
former9thward Sep 2012 #121
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2012 #95
fascisthunter Aug 2012 #110
bigdarryl Aug 2012 #13
Puglover Aug 2012 #42
Webster Green Aug 2012 #47
CBGLuthier Aug 2012 #72
klook Aug 2012 #87
fascisthunter Aug 2012 #109
closeupready Aug 2012 #14
cbdo2007 Aug 2012 #16
Waiting For Everyman Aug 2012 #17
mattclearing Aug 2012 #94
highplainsdem Aug 2012 #18
gateley Aug 2012 #21
highplainsdem Aug 2012 #25
ScarlettOhara Aug 2012 #23
gateley Aug 2012 #33
ScarlettOhara Aug 2012 #48
gateley Aug 2012 #51
fascisthunter Aug 2012 #111
gateley Aug 2012 #19
flamingdem Aug 2012 #20
highplainsdem Aug 2012 #31
flamingdem Aug 2012 #45
freshwest Aug 2012 #29
Cleita Aug 2012 #44
gateley Aug 2012 #49
Cleita Aug 2012 #52
SoCalDem Aug 2012 #97
gateley Aug 2012 #99
seabeyond Aug 2012 #22
littlemissmartypants Aug 2012 #28
Cleita Aug 2012 #30
gateley Aug 2012 #34
laundry_queen Aug 2012 #86
1-Old-Man Aug 2012 #32
ParkieDem Aug 2012 #43
1-Old-Man Aug 2012 #78
liberal N proud Aug 2012 #35
Cleita Aug 2012 #37
CrispyQ Aug 2012 #73
liberal N proud Aug 2012 #107
treestar Aug 2012 #40
gateley Aug 2012 #46
Robbins Aug 2012 #50
Cleita Aug 2012 #55
CrispyQ Aug 2012 #117
ScarlettOhara Aug 2012 #53
fishwax Aug 2012 #54
IL Lib Aug 2012 #67
fishwax Aug 2012 #70
IL Lib Aug 2012 #85
patrice Aug 2012 #56
gateley Aug 2012 #66
patrice Aug 2012 #80
korak Aug 2012 #60
Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2012 #63
gateley Aug 2012 #71
Amerigo Vespucci Aug 2012 #64
gateley Aug 2012 #75
Amerigo Vespucci Aug 2012 #82
jillan Aug 2012 #65
gateley Aug 2012 #69
Puglover Aug 2012 #76
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2012 #68
gateley Aug 2012 #89
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2012 #92
gateley Aug 2012 #96
Liberal_Stalwart71 Aug 2012 #100
politicasista Aug 2012 #116
LynneSin Aug 2012 #79
rachel1 Aug 2012 #83
gateley Aug 2012 #90
rbrnmw Aug 2012 #98
byeya Aug 2012 #93
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2012 #101
Incitatus Aug 2012 #105
mia Aug 2012 #106
fascisthunter Aug 2012 #108
fishwax Aug 2012 #112
fascisthunter Aug 2012 #113
Ellipsis Aug 2012 #114

Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:22 PM

1. I very much hope you are right.

I don't think that there's any reason to be sanguine, considering the things that are going on in Michigan, and Florida and Ohio. There is blatant vote-rigging going on and a lack of paper trails.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:09 PM

36. Who do you hope is right? About what?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:47 PM

61. presumably about the American Idol type vote, in which Obama would win

I've made the mistake a few times of responding to part of a post that didn't match the rest of it.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:09 PM

81. Sorry, he's right. Now that the PCW has left and I have a coffee,

What I meant to say was that I hope Obama wins, because I know he has popular support. I really, really hope so. I have, however, a sneaking suspicion that this election and the one after will be Dubya redux. My apologies; my brain was going in six directions at once, and I am getting less flexible than I used to be!

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:22 PM

2. I respect Michael Moore

But he's being very defeatist. I believe his assumption is wrong. Anyone can be wrong.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:24 PM

4. I agree completely.

I like him an all, but he whines too much and he's the first to pitch a fit and say its over before it has begun.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:25 PM

5. Yup defeatism helps none of us.

And money is no guarantee of victory. Plus, per all the polling done on this race, Obama is still ahead in the electoral college. I am not afraid of Romney and I don't get why Michael Moore is.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:34 PM

8. Money Is No Guarantee Of Victory

You're right. Money is no guarantee of victory. The candidate who wins is the candidate who gets the most voters to turn out for him or her during early voting or on Election Day.

I don't doubt that R-money's Super-PACs have cash to burn. On the other hand, the R's don't seem to have made Mitt into a particularly likable guy, and despite the corporate media's slothfulness and timidity, I think that more and more people are beginning to notice that the Republicans have little to run on except for lying.

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Response to Vogon_Glory (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:19 PM

88. but massive election fraud could very well be.

 

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #88)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:18 PM

102. Possibly BUT

Possibly, BUT I don't have time to indulge in defeatist behavior. Even if I thought we were going to lose (And I think that there's a very good chance for Democratic victory this year), I feel compelled to go out and campaign this year. I intend to be able to look myself in the mirror and be able to honestly tell myself that I did something to resist the reactionaries' political agenda this season instead of curling up into a little ball and say "Oh poor pitiful me. Oh poor pitiful me. Oh poor pitiful me."

I signed up to work at a phone bank on Saturday.

How about you?

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:35 PM

10. Hes not afraid of Rmoney...

he's afraid of Democratic lethargy and an ineffective Democratic GOTV program.

Every email I get from the President, the DNC, DCCC, state party, etc. asks for a donation.

The Party needs 21st-century solutions for GOTV.

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Response to superpatriotman (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:10 PM

38. They need money to help pay for GOTV. n/t

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Response to superpatriotman (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:13 PM

41. There has already been a GOTV trial run for November

It happened in June during the WI recalls. OFA and many other national orgs were here. They held events and block parties with vans waiting to shuttle otherwise "unlikely" voters to/from the polls. This went on for many days leading up to election day taking advantage of early voting. Plenty of boots on the ground communicating the events through social media, or in disadvantaged neighborhoods less likely to be wired, actually going door-to-door.

End results aside, I think this is the type of tactic that will work. Less money was spent on ads because the polls showed there were few undecided voters out there to flip. The pres election seems to be shaping up in a similar fashion. The diverted money was put into getting more boots on the ground and funding the events and necessary transportation to get people to the polls.

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Response to superpatriotman (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:01 PM

74. Romney will need solutions for the debates

He's going to get his ass handed to him by President Obama, and that little weasel, Ryan, will look like he has no business in the same room with VP Biden.

Their stupid convention isn't even attracting viewers, they are really enthused it seems.

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Response to superpatriotman (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:35 PM

104. oh, please, he didn't say that, if he gave tips on how to improve voter turnout

 

it would be one thing but he is saying it's over because of the money.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:58 PM

27. Because, as he points out, THEY are organized, committed, and have the enthusiasm.

Couple that with the voter suppression, and I agree there's cause for concern. None of them will be turned away from the polls.

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Response to gateley (Reply #27)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:38 PM

57. And they have a handful of billionaires

who have bought everything they could possibly want, so of course they have to buy the presidency as well.

It all doesn't mean Romney will win, but we should never assume it couldn't happen. We've seen what they are capable of in the recent past and we should never underestimate them.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #57)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:43 PM

59. +1000

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:28 PM

103. Interesting Story About Money

Interesting story about money over in that other party during the senate primary in Texas. The favored candidate was David Dewhurst, Lieutenant Governor, favored by the Texas Republican establishment, and favored by the political establishment. Dewhurst got trounced by Ted Cruz, a Tea Party insurgent, who lacked anything like Dewhurst's big war chest, but who waged a better ground game and turned out his right-wing voters.

A better ground game CAN defeat big campaign war-chests. We Democrats CAN win!

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Response to get the red out (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:58 PM

26. I'm sure Obama will get the popular vote, hands down.

It's the electoral votes that are being diddled with and those could tip it in favor of Romney in key states. What they are doing with election rigging points to that.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:47 PM

62. We're talking about a political movement that holds George Carlin up as a sort of idol

 

Funny guy, but laughing at nihilism and one dude's bitter cynicism is much different from actually accepting it.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:23 PM

3. "Romney is going to raise more money than Barack Obama. That should guarantee his victory"

Talk to Meg Whitman.

Romney could win if Republicans succeed at supressing the vote and stealing the election.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:31 PM

7. Or Linda McMahon

more money spent per vote than any other Senate campaign in history and she still got beat like a rented mule.

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:56 PM

24. it may well buy it for her this time

 

she's ahead.

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Response to cali (Reply #24)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:11 PM

39. That was one poll by Ras

the latest by Quinnipiac shows her back in the familiar spot of second place. I'd be surprised if she pulls it any closer than she has it now. She's simply an unlikable human being.

She refuses to talk about anything except her "jobs" plan and when asked about minor things that a Senator might have to consider like treaties and foreign policy she doesn't comment at all.

She's running the "Sarah Palin campaign" of "I'm gonna answer the questions that I want not the ones you ask."

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #39)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:03 PM

77. wrong. a new quinnipiac poll has it tied.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #77)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:32 PM

91. She's still not gonna win n/t

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:40 PM

58. god can you imagine if she wins

I don't live in CT but I do not want Vince McMahon ANYWHERE near our government.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:27 PM

6. Obamas gonna wipe the floor with Romney Ryan.

It should be easier to vote. Early voting ensures anyone who wants to vote gets to the polls.

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Response to Skink (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:35 PM

11. Please be right

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:35 PM

9. I need a stiff drink with some herbs and spices

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:36 PM

12. Once more Michael Moore is talking out of his ass.

Moore wants Rmoney to win so he cam make more half-fictional movies about right-wingers.

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Response to Archae (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:41 PM

15. Your faith in the public is inspiring

We could NEVER elect the wrong person, right?

Moore's next movie should be about the fractal nature of Democratic party politics.



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Response to Archae (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:14 PM

84. "Half fictional"?? What are you talking about?

If Michael Moore told a single lie, he would get sued for slander. He has the best libel lawyers that work for The New Yorker go over every line and sentence and image in his movies and books, and make sure that he cannot be sued.

Why do people keep saying that Michael Moore lies? Because they don't like his answers?

He does not lie about anything. Otherwise he would have been sued.

Please give us a citation where Michael Moore has been proven to have lied.

Knock it off.


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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #84)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 10:08 PM

115. People do not get sued for slander for lying.

Where did you go to law school? What nonsense.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #115)

Sat Sep 1, 2012, 07:07 PM

118. truth is an absolute defense to slander.

Yes they do get sued for slander for lying.

Slander is a defamation that is oral. Libel is written defamation. If he lied about someone in one of his books or movies, for example, said "Dick Cheney strangled his mother" and it is not true, then Cheney could sue MM for defamation.

If what he said is true, that is an absolute defense and he cannot be sued. You have it backwards.

In the case of a public figure, the words must have been spoken with actual malice, in that the publisher must have known it was false and spread it in reckless disregard of the truth. New York Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964).


I went to South Texas College of Law, BTW.

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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #118)

Sat Sep 1, 2012, 09:48 PM

119. I have never heard of South Texas College of Law.

But I'm sure it is a fine school. Telling a lie is not necessarily slander and that is the context of the post I replied to. If telling lies was equal to slander then when tabloids run stories of Obama talking to aliens from mars would be they would be sued. They are not. That being said it is extremely difficult to sue for slander in the U.S. public figure or not. That is why it is very rarely done and even less rarely successful.

If you think MM could be successfully sued if he demonstrably lied in one of his films then your school ill served you.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #119)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 03:29 AM

120. Thanks a lot.

The law concerns lying about a person, not about facts in general. I don't know where you went to law school either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Texas_College_of_Law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel

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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #120)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 12:55 PM

121. I didn't learn about legal concepts from Wiki

But thanks for the cite.

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Response to Archae (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:06 PM

95. +1. And sadly, he's not the only one. Lots of "liberals" make more $$$ with a Repuke in the WH.

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Response to Archae (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:40 PM

110. once more Archae talks shit about a real liberal

 

can't help yourself, can ya?

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:37 PM

13. OH MIKE!!! PLEASE you have been stuffing your fat face so much it's effecting your brain

 

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Response to bigdarryl (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:15 PM

42. Very classy post. Nice way to attack an ally .

Very mature.

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Response to bigdarryl (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:21 PM

47. WTF does MM's weight have to do with anything?

And.....did you actually watch the video?

Very lame post.

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Response to bigdarryl (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:59 PM

72. Where did you study biology to come up with a conclusion like that?

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Response to bigdarryl (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:18 PM

87. If I stuff my face I can effect my brain?

I can bring about my brain by eating?

This poses an interesting conundrum: if I don't have a brain, how can I eat? A brain is required to operate my ingestion mechanisms (jaw, salivary glands, swallow thingy), is it not?

Yet you say a person can bring his or her brain into existence merely by stuffing his or her face.

Wow, deep. Very zen. I'm gonna have to go stuff my face and ponder this.

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Response to bigdarryl (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:37 PM

109. stupid

 

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:38 PM

14. Moore is usually correct, but like a stopped clock (reversed),

 

he's wrong every now and then.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:42 PM

16. He's part of the media....the closer the race is and the more we have fear, the more relevant he

thinks he is.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:44 PM

17. Wow, that was really stupid.

MM just made my ignore list from now on. Whatever he had, he lost it somewhere.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:43 PM

94. He's just trying to scare people into taking the possibility seriously.

Which, given the money situation and the rampant disenfranchisement, is probably a good idea.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:47 PM

18. I think your subject line is misleading. Moore is trying to alert Dems to how important turnout

will be, especially with the Republicans having so much more money.

It's very clear he's worried that Obama's base isn't excited enough this time. He's especially worried that young voters aren't excited enough.

But he is NOT making a definite prediction that Romney will win.

He's saying that without enough excitement, enough turnout, by Dem voters and activists, Romney will win.

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:53 PM

21. +1. Watch the vid -- the headline (I think it was HuffPo's) doesn't tell the whole story.

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Response to gateley (Reply #21)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:57 PM

25. Thanks! I had watched Moore, but hadn't noticed the OP had used HuffPo's headline.

Their headline is misleading.

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:55 PM

23. You're correct, but

Moore actually said that IF people voted from their couches, a la American Idol, THEN Romney would win. His implication is that the vast majority of the electorate are ignorant.

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Response to ScarlettOhara (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:02 PM

33. I didn't get that sense at all, but rather that they have the incentive (defeat Obama) whereas

too many of us are 'meh' (as we were in 2010).

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Response to gateley (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:22 PM

48. "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."

I blame the media, ignorance, and apathy for this sorry state of affairs.

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Response to ScarlettOhara (Reply #48)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:27 PM

51. Perfect quote, ScarlettOhara!

And welcome to DU!

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:42 PM

111. more than that... it's purely deliberate divisive garbage

 

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:51 PM

19. MM presented some excellent points. We don't have the fire in our belly that we

did in 2008. Too many have become complacent. Look at 2010 if you don't think it can happen. We assumed people wouldn't fall for their lies and yet look how many whack jobs were elected. We lost the House for fuck sake!

To blow off what MM has to say as "whining" or "defeatist" is wrong.

I'm not in so much agreement that it's the money that will do it, as much as our lack of enthusiasm and commitment.

We need to work as hard now as we did in 2008. It's not a slam dunk.

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Response to gateley (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:53 PM

20. agree Gately, people aren't worried, aren't always registered

and aren't aware of what is at stake

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:01 PM

31. And often aren't aware of the new voter ID laws.

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #31)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:18 PM

45. I am very worried about the news on Election Day

... oh the chaos, well you were sent a small envelope with new instructions and you didn't open it! Your fault, you don't get to vote, stop complaining

(I skip opening lots of mail since it's junk usually)

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Response to gateley (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:00 PM

29. +1,000

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Response to gateley (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:18 PM

44. I think it's because we were defeated by their cheating machine so many

times that it seems hopeless to fight back. I'm in a state that I know will deliver electoral votes to Obama so I really can only sit on the sidelines and watch. I've contributed all I can and am tapped out so I can't even throw money at this. However, Democrats in Ohio, Florida, et al or even in neighboring states should be doing what they can on the ground now to make this not happen.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #44)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:24 PM

49. I don't think it's hopeless, but it is discouraging. As MM said, we need to GOTV -- that's

the way to win.

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Response to gateley (Reply #49)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:28 PM

52. I hope people in critical states do.

As I said before all I can do is observe.

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Response to gateley (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:11 PM

97. non presidential years are usually the ones when house & senate flip

because so many people turn off politics if there's not a presidential race...The smaller turn outs tend to favor the "throw 'em out" voters.

What was different in '10, was the formation of the teabag brigade starting in late '08 (probably "born" in that We-Hate-Him soiree on Inauguration night)..

They had a year + to firm it up, funding from gazillionaires and the gaga media fawning all over them, so it was NO surprise to me that they stomped us in '10.

From that moment on, EVERY election will be a MAJOR one.

I've said it a million times..

Republicans play the long game.. Decades ago, when dems didn't even bother to proffer a candidate for some races, republicans were running for and winning state house seats, school board seats, judge-ships, council seats..everywhere.. They were the "farm team".. They were becoming "known", and gaining confidence. All those taken-over radio stations in their localities pumped them up and probably helped them in election after election as they climbed the ladder..

Many "graduated" into the hundreds of "think tanks" the right created..they got published---noticed--and once in DC, their next steps were charted for them..

It's a process and the right knows it.. They are willing to play the long game because they know that dems don't usually play it, and many don't even seem to know it exists.

We seem to try to re-invent the wheel with every election, and for righties, they are already planning 2 elections ahead, and have a pocketful of "changes" they plan to ram through the very next time they grab power.

That's precisely why George got us into two wars right away, and stripped the treasury bare with tax cuts & giveaways right away.. You do the big and bold FIRST..

My grandfather always said it was easier to ask forgiveness, than permission..

Dems usually ask permission

Republicans do it, mention asking for forgiveness..don't ever really ask, and then go on as if they WERE forgiven.

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #97)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:19 PM

99. Great post, SoCalDem! Thank you!

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:54 PM

22. over the years, the more i listen to moore, the less i respect him. this is just another shove

 

in that direction.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:00 PM

30. People!!! It's the electoral votes that they are rigging!

Michael could be right if we don't do something about it. I have no doubt Obama would get the popular vote by a large margin. It means nothing if key states are being rigged.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:04 PM

34. +1000 - why do some of us refuse to face reality?

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Response to gateley (Reply #34)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:15 PM

86. ^^^This. nt

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:01 PM

32. I've seen Chomsky predict election results based on the money, and he's been right ever time

Here is what scares me more than anything else about the coming election. There is at least 1 man who has pledged he will spend $100,000,000 on the election. We presume he means to spend that money legally, but if even 10% of it is diverted to buy off the man or woman who counts the votes in just two or three key counties around the country it could throw the election. Take Cuyahoga County, OH for an example. Take a ranking poll worker who's underwater on his house and has a kid in college and no idea where next semester's tuition is going to come from - let alone books, and someone waving a million bucks under his nose is going to be mighty tempting. I do not suggest it will happen, but with a Billion dollars going into an election you can absolutely bet the farm that all if it will not be legally spent.

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Response to 1-Old-Man (Reply #32)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:15 PM

43. Just remember,

That could just as easily happen from an Obama supporter than a Romney supporter.

I don't think Michael Moore is right, but anyone on this board who thinks the election is "in the bag" for Obama is delusional. It's going to be close, vote-stealing or not.

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Response to ParkieDem (Reply #43)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:04 PM

78. Could be

Yep, I suppose the opportunity is just as great from our side as theirs but I don't think it is as much in our inclination to do it. I think that Republicans, and particularly those who have already determined to spend tens if not hundreds of millions, display a more emphatic nature about their giving. They seem to think that any election won by a Democrat points at the end of civilization and if that's your point of view the niceties of law get lost in those sorts of decisions. Democrats, by difference it seems to me, tend to say, 'well, we'll hold them off for 2 years and then beat them in the next election'

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:07 PM

35. He isn't going to WIN the election

Now they will probably STEAL the election for Romney but if the votes are all counted and counted fairly and correctly and reported correctly, he would not win the election.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #35)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:09 PM

37. Yes, but he will be sworn into office like Chimpy Bush and we all lose. n/t

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #35)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:00 PM

73. I expect unexpected flips in key states like OH & FL.

I'll never forget OH flipping shortly after I got home from the polls in '04. It was the most depressing moment of the year.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #73)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:27 PM

107. Just like 00 and 04, they have the right offices under their control

The names have changed but the crimes will be the same.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:12 PM

40. Defeatist - another negative person trying to get us down

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Response to treestar (Reply #40)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:20 PM

46. I disagree, treestar. He's not telling people to give up, he's

painting a realistic picture of the current situation. The headline is misleading, IMO.

If anything, I view it as a call to arms, a warning against complacency.

We can't pretend that this will be a cakewalk for us. That's as dangerous as defeatism.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:25 PM

50. well

If Romney wins kiss goodbye to America as we know It.Romney would have republican congress with him.And If Democrats lose In
2012 with Obama In white house how could they win In 2014 or 2016 out of power.

Republicans would pull nuclear opotion In senate If democrats could fillerbuster.

The Bush tax cuts become permeant and Romney would pass more tax Cuts.

Taxes will be raised on poor and middle class to pay for more tax cuts and increase In defense spending.

There will be no pullout In Afghanstain and say hello to war In Iran

Expect retirement age to raised to 70-72 and more cuts to Social secuity

Healthcare reform repealed.Medicare severly gutted to pay for tax cuts and turned Into voucher system

800 Billion cut from medicaid.It turned back to states where Republicans cut even more.If your poor or disabled say goodbye to
health care coverage.

Food stamps cut and turned to states where even more Is cut.If your poor or disabled you will have almost no help to get food.

Disabled people will be thrown under the bus by cuts to SSI

On education If you can't offord private school you may be out of luck.And for poor and Middle class you will get no help going to collage.

Look for national version of antiunion stuff like In Wis,and Ohio to get passed by congress and signed Into law

Women will lose coverage for birth control.Antiabortion laws will be signed and personhood laws could be passed In Congress

The Minuem wage could be ablolished.

DADT reinstated.And more antigay laws could be passed.

Civil rights laws could outright be repealed

Romney as president should scare the hell out of people.It could create a permeant one party 1 percent society In this country.

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Response to Robbins (Reply #50)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:30 PM

55. + 10,0000

You said it.

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Response to Robbins (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:42 AM

117. This list is why I have such a hard time being friends with any repubs.

People say, 'you shouldn't let politics get in the way of family & friends.' Really? Politics reflects a person's world view. Why would I hang with people who want Mitt Romney & this list for our future?

'Agree to disagree' just doesn't work with me when it comes to some issues.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:29 PM

53. It looks like a plan, doesn't it?

Dubya does most of the work. The black guy gets the blame. And then, put the guy who's experienced in tearing down companies to sell them off for profit in charge.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:29 PM

54. a rather misleading headline given what Moore actually says in the video

He's not saying Obama can't win, he's pointing out the importance of getting out the vote for our side, particularly given the advantage the republicans have in financing their organizational machine.

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Response to fishwax (Reply #54)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:55 PM

67. Not framed well, imo.

He suggests that he thinks Romney will win because of all of the money backing him. If he wanted to express how important it is for dems to get out to vote, he could have framed it much better. Dems are soft, point blank.

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Response to IL Lib (Reply #67)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:58 PM

70. I don't know -- it's hard to tell exactly how he framed it because of the editing, but

I didn't think there was anything wrong with his overall message.

Welcome to DU, IL Lib

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Response to fishwax (Reply #70)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:15 PM

85. Thanks for the welcome!

I've been reading and enjoying the forum for awhile, and felt the need to join in as we're getting closer to the election.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:31 PM

56. That's a thought: This is so FUCKED-UP it means one thing. The. Deal. Is. Done.

So they don't even have to try to get it right. In fact, the more wrong it is the better, for what happens next. This is why they have absolutely NO regard for the truth. The further off they are, the better for them and whatever deals they'll do in their secret boardrooms once Robme delivers this thing for them.

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Response to patrice (Reply #56)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:54 PM

66. Like MM says, the deal isn't done if we get out and vote. I'm thinking

With the number who will be denied access it's even more crucial than ever. But how do you light the fire? Too many aren't paying attention and only hear the soundbites and will see a preponderance of Romney ads. We can't give up.

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Response to gateley (Reply #66)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:08 PM

80. I agree. There are legal efforts afoot for the vote but right now the BEST response is turnout.

And if people just don't really feel committed to working with the Democratic party, they might consider finding the closest Occupy, though I can't guarantee that they won't encounter a relatively strong "Don't Vote" cohort there, like we did here locally, but that may have just been our Occupy. It's still a good, though very chaotic, place to be involved in issues, without having to mind all of the party p's and q's.

I'm canvassing for local Democrats; I know that's not everyone's thing, but they might be concerned about what is happening and the Occupy is an interesting, broad, and somewhat disorganized context in which to explore political action, including the opposite of "Don't Vote".

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:46 PM

60. Jummah at the Dnc

 

Off Topic. Sorry but i can't originate a thread. Someone who can should!!!!!


Look at this! It is a lie that the rightists are spreading all over the net. The DNC is not in any way connected to this. Check the snopes.com article.

http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=jummah+at+the+dnc&rlz=1R2RNRN_enUS453&oq=jummah+dnc&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i8.4831.9299.0.16218.10.10.0.0.0.0.266.2071.0j4j6.10.0.les%3B..0.0.












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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:48 PM

63. Riiighht. And, Bambi's going to whup Godzilla in the rematch.

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #63)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:59 PM

71. I fear Romney is no Bambi, nor is Obama Godzilla. I envy you your confidence that there is no cause

cause for concern.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:52 PM

64. This shows no special insight on Moore's part...we already KNOW the Koch boys could buy this one.

It puts the burden of the candidate with less "buying power" on the hot seat.

If Obama FIGHTS for this, he will win. If he BLINKS, it will be "President Romney."

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Response to Amerigo Vespucci (Reply #64)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:02 PM

75. If WE fight for this, Obama will win.

I lost faith in a lot of my fellow Dems and the American people in general in 2010, and again in Wisconsin.

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Response to gateley (Reply #75)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:11 PM

82. Yes, "we" was implied in my post, but I'll spell it out here

There IS NO "President Obama" without US.

He may LEAD the fight, but it will be the effort from every Democrat with "boots on the ground" that puts him into a second term.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:54 PM

65. I think MM is trying to send a message to Democrats - that this could happen - so get out and

[img][/img]

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Response to jillan (Reply #65)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:57 PM

69. +1000

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Response to jillan (Reply #65)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:03 PM

76. Of COURSE that is what he is trying to do.

Thanks for this post. Obviously nuance is lost on a few in this thread.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 03:57 PM

68. We don't need this right now, especially not from Michael Moore. He is depressing turnout

 

with these words. It's one thing to express urgency and get people to understand how important it is to vote. It's altogether another thing to just give up.

One thing about Michael Moore and other liberal commentators: they had no problem supporting Bill Clinton for a second term. They also had no problem support John Kerry. But when it comes to Barack Obama, there's this curious double standard. It's odd and very disturbing to me.

Michael Moore is doing our side no favors. I can see the Republicans using his words and playing them against the Democrats and Obama.

I think he's being an idiot!!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #68)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:21 PM

89. I totally disagree. If you watch the video, he's saying IF we get out and vote, we'll

prevail. I think itís a call to arms, and as we learned in 2010 and again in Wisconsin, he's right.

He is DEFINITELY not giving up!

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Response to gateley (Reply #89)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:34 PM

92. I hope not. A few months ago he was vowing not to vote because he's angry at Obama not

 

being progressive enough, to which I am curious as to why he supported Bill Clinton and John Kerry. Neither men are progressive. Why the double standard?

At any rate, I hope that he will vote for President Obama and I hope that his words don't have the opposite impact where people just give up in defeat.

MM is a very charismatic figure on the left. I believe that he needs to be very careful how his words may be misinterpreted.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #92)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:06 PM

96. I think a lot of people vowed to not vote for Obama (many here on DU!) out

of frustration that we didn't see the dramatic changes we'd hoped for. Speaking for myself, I'd become angry when he made concessions and felt he didn't fight hard enough (although I never entertained the thought of not voting for him). It took me stepping back and understanding that for the most part, he did what he could with the obstruction he met.

For those the were angry enough to threaten they wouldn't vote, I'm hoping that at the very least they realize the price we'd all pay if they follow through. Again, speaking for myself, I still get mad at him but realize we ARE heading in the right direction despite incredible opposition. I'm guessing (hoping) others feel the same and support him.

I'm pretty sure MM will vote for Obama, and I hope he says that loudly and often.

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Response to gateley (Reply #96)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:20 PM

100. I agree with you 100% here.

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #92)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 12:19 AM

116. President Obama and Senator Kerry have the same DNA

when it comes to foreign policy. Senator Kerry is not a centrist triangulator like B. Clinton. In fact, he (Kerry) is more aligned with to the Kennedy wing more than the Clinton wing.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:04 PM

79. My guess is that Michael Moore is saying this to piss off progressives...

so they work harder to get Obama re-elected.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:13 PM

83. and this is just one of a few times when I have to say that Michael Moore is

wrong.

I don't know what he was thinking when he said that but there's no chance of that happening.

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Response to rachel1 (Reply #83)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:27 PM

90. Watch the vid if you haven't -- the headline is misleading.

And I disagree that there's "no chance of that happening". I didn't think we'd lose the House in 2010, did you?

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Response to gateley (Reply #90)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:12 PM

98. nor would anyone have convinced me that Al Gore would lose To Dubya

I agree with Moore I've almost a feeling of impending doom of course that could be the scotch, herbs, and spices talking

but in all seriousness we could lose

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 04:38 PM

93. Fuck the UAW. Who can get excited about a president whose chief of staff says crap like this and

 

is not called down for it by the boss?

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Response to byeya (Reply #93)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 05:28 PM

101. Pres. Obama is not responsible for your level of excitement. The issues should be enough.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:39 PM

105. IIRC, Moore said Kerry would win in 2004,and by a large majority.

So I'm not too concerned about his prediction in this election.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:52 PM

106. Thanks a lot, Michael.

You should think a long time before you give your opinion again.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:37 PM

108. Um.. please be more honest about what he actually said!

 

nice try... "super" duper patriot poser.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #108)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:43 PM

112. to be fair to superpatriotman, the headline is huffpo's

I agree with you that it's misleading.

Funny how quickly people will jump on the guy though, for saying that the bad guys will win if we don't vote and don't get out the vote. That's a message everyone should take to heart.

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Response to fishwax (Reply #112)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:45 PM

113. it was deliberate...

 

and reposting was too.

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Response to superpatriotman (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:45 PM

114. That's not what's gonna happen," he told Zepps. Fucked up Op and headline.

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