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Mon Jul 22, 2019, 01:38 AM

Just imagine if we had Hate Speech laws on the books comparable to those in the U.K.

Trump and half his drooling base would be in prison now.

Yeah, I know, the First Amendment, and all that. However, it's still nice to daydream once in a while and imagine us as the sort of nation that safeguards the dignity and decency of its citizens, especially its most vulnerable minority citizens.

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Response to jcmaine72 (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 01:41 AM

1. Imagine if England had a first amendment

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Response to tirebiter (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 01:54 AM

2. And the 2nd!!

Why, they'd be great, just like murica is..(USA! USA! USA! SEND THEM BACK!!)..and they'd have my deepest sympathies.

Then again, 17.4 million in the U.K. voted for Brexit, so obviously they have their own problems in the form of xenophobic, racist imbeciles as well.

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Response to jcmaine72 (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 02:48 AM

3. Maybe if they did

Britons could defend themselves without worrying about being tossed in jail.

TV presenter warned she could be imprisoned for scaring off intruders with a knife:

[link:https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/10/myleene-klass-knife-intruders|]

No thanks, I'll keep my free speech and right to defend myself and my family.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 07:13 AM

7. How uncivilized of you

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Response to jcmaine72 (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 02:52 AM

4. England is why we have both of those amendments

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Response to jcmaine72 (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 03:19 AM

5. It would be a lot easier for some rich politician to sue for slander and libel.

Do you still think that would be a good idea?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 04:35 AM

6. What I think would be a good idea is holding vicious hatemongers and racists accountable for their..

...violent rhetoric.

Many have self-righteously preened about condemning this and that Dotard has said for the past three years but have done little else. Now, we have concentration camps on our border with Mexico. It all started with language...hateful language. Such crimes and atrocities always do.

Do you still think it would be a good idea to let such language go unpunished? What lies will we tell ourselves and others to try and convince ourselves and them that we're still people of good conscience in the horrific aftermath that such unfettered hate speech will inevitably produce?

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Response to jcmaine72 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 09:33 AM

9. Falsely "shouting fire in a crowded theater" is still illegal. Inciting crimes is still illegal.

Last edited Mon Jul 22, 2019, 10:54 AM - Edit history (1)

But we shouldn't be banning free speech. I'm grateful, especially now, for the First Amendment.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 10:48 AM

11. Shouting fire in a crowded theater is not illegal

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 10:53 AM

12. I should have said, "FALSELY shouting fire in a crowded theater

and inciting panic is illegal." Not all forms of speech are protected.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/11/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater/?utm_term=.dada1da00037

And in fact the line from Justice Holmes in Schenck v. United States is “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.” That “falsely” is what’s doing the work, both in Justice Holmes’s hypothetical, and in how such a false shout would be treated by First Amendment law today. Knowingly false statements of fact are often constitutionally unprotected — consider, for instance, libel, fraud, perjury, and false light invasion of privacy. That would presumably apply to knowing falsehoods that cause a panic. (Even given bit complicated by the Stolen Valor Act case, such knowing falsehoods that are likely to cause tangible and immediate harm are likely to be punishable, as the concurrence suggests.)

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 10:55 AM

13. It doubtful that would even survive the modern Brandenburg v. Ohio test.

We're a long way from the 1919 decision, which was actually justifying jailing anti-war protesters.

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Response to jcmaine72 (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 10:09 AM

10. Should the DU member who called me a terrorist for owning a firearm be prosecuted for...

Committing a hate speech crime?

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Response to jcmaine72 (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 07:20 AM

8. I'm glad we don't

Imprisoning people for expressing ideas? You don't see how that could be capriciously enforced and abused?

No thanks.

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Response to jcmaine72 (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 11:04 AM

14. If we had hate speech laws, and AG Barr decided who got changed, you would be in prison.

Not “Trump and half his drooling base”

Thankfully the First Amendment protects us from them, and from folks like you.

No, save your authoritarian day dreams for somewhere else.

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