HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Everyone needs to read th...

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 12:06 AM

Everyone needs to read this entire Twitter thread by Tim Wise.


23 replies, 1811 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Everyone needs to read this entire Twitter thread by Tim Wise. (Original post)
MrScorpio Jul 22 OP
TeamPooka Jul 22 #1
gratuitous Jul 22 #2
TeamPooka Jul 22 #3
dalton99a Jul 22 #4
lunatica Jul 22 #6
susanna Jul 22 #18
Vinca Jul 22 #20
unblock Jul 22 #5
AJT Jul 22 #7
SunSeeker Jul 22 #10
Roy Rolling Jul 22 #8
EveHammond13 Jul 22 #9
blogslut Jul 22 #11
wiley Jul 22 #16
roamer65 Jul 22 #12
PatrickforO Jul 22 #13
srobertss Jul 22 #14
arthritisR_US Jul 22 #15
Ponietz Jul 22 #17
Duppers Jul 22 #19
hedda_foil Jul 22 #21
hedda_foil Jul 22 #22
Kid Berwyn Jul 22 #23

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 12:16 AM

1. and to sum up at the end...

31/ People who say the Dems should ignore Trump's race baiting because its some genius political strategy calculated to distract us, are idiots. He is no genius. And if you downplay it you NORMALIZE him. If you make this about policy, you NORMALIZE him. He is a racist...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TeamPooka (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 12:20 AM

2. The "tell" in this case

Trump absolutely HATES being called racist. Just because he doesn't want to be called a racist is no reason for anyone, including the media, to back off one inch from calling Trump's racism racism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gratuitous (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 12:24 AM

3. plus focusing the election as a referendum about Trump is a winning path.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 12:24 AM

4. "We need to stop approaching elections like the goddamned debate team"

1/ If the Dems blow this election it will not be because they were "too far left on policy" or because they "weren't left enough." It will have little to do with policy at all. They are making a mistake caused by traditional consultant theory that does not apply here...

2/ And by listening to influential pundits in liberal media who also don't get the unique nature of Trumpism, relative to normal political movements & campaigns...this election is NOT going to be won by talking about all your "great plans" for health care, jobs, education, etc..

3/ And the reasons are several...Let me begin by saying that I have experience confronting the kind of phenomenon we see in Trumpism, and far more than most. Any of us who were involved in the fight against David Duke in LA in 90/91 know what this is and how it must be fought...

4/ So before explaining what the Dems are doing wrong right now, a little history...In 1990, white supremacist David Duke ran for U.S. Senate in LA, and in 1991 for Governor. He lost both times but both times he won the majority of the white vote (60 and 55% respectively)...

5/ I was one of the staffers of the main anti-Duke PAC at the time & ultimately became Assistant Director. In 90, even though our Director Lance Hill, myself & a few of our founders wanted to focus on Duke's bigotry, ties to extremists and appeals to white racial resentment...

6/ ...after all, that WAS the issue--it was a moral struggle against racism--we had mainstream Democratic consultants who warned us against focusing too much on it. They said that "played into Duke's hands" and allowed him to set the agenda....

7/ So sure, we could discuss his ties to Nazis & such, but we shouldn't make a big deal out of his contemporary racist appeals, per se, bc "lots of voters agree" with those appeals...they even encouraged us to talk about utterly superfluous shit like Duke paying his taxes late..

8/ Or Duke avoiding service in Vietnam, or Duke writing a sex manual under a female pseudonym (yeah he did that)...although Lance held firm that we needed to talk mostly about racism, we did end up talking about some of that other stuff too, sadly...

9/ I say "sadly" because doing that normalized Duke as a regular candidate. Attacking his generic character or bill paying habits (or even discussing his inadequate plans for job creation, etc) treated him like a normal candidate. But he was/is a NAZI...

10/ And none of his voters were voting 4 him bc of jobs, or tax policy or support for term limits, etc. And none were going to turn on him over late tax payments, Vietnam, etc. Indeed throwing that stuff out there & downplaying the elephant in the room (racism) seemed desperate..

11/ It allowed people to say "well if he's really this racist, white supremacist, why are they talking about all this other stuff?" It actually undermined our ability to paint him as the extremist he was/is. And as a result, the threat he posed was not clear enough to voters...

12/ And this didn't just allow him to get votes he might not have gotten otherwise; it also depressed turnout among people who almost certainly disliked him but didn't think he could win or would be all that big a deal if he did. In fact I recall convos with "liberals"...

13/ ...Who said they weren't going 2 vote bc after all Duke's Dem opponent was just a shill for the oil and gas industry, and that was just as bad, blah blah fucking blah...because some lefties can't tell the difference between corporatist assholes and actual literal Nazis...

14/ But we bore some responsibility for that because we got suckered into playing this conventional game and "not playing into his narrative." Anyway, Duke gets 60% of the vote, black and white liberal turnout is lower than it should have been and Duke gets 44% of vote...

15/ In the Governor's race we dispensed w/ all that bullshit. We talked about Duke's ongoing Nazism and the moral/practical evil of his racist appeals. We discussed how that moral evil would have real world consequences (driving tourists and business away, rightly so, from LA)..

16/ Because it was wrong, and it was not who we wanted to be, and it was not who were were. We were better than that and needed to show the rest of the country that...

17/ Now, did this flip any of Duke's 1990 voters? Nah, not really. Indeed he got 65k MORE votes in the Governor's race than the Senate race. But it was never about flipping them. We knew that would be almost impossible...

18/ To flip Duke voters would require that they accept the fact that they had previously voted for a monster, and people are loath to do that. Our goal was not to flip them, but to DRIVE UP TURNOUT among the good folks, many of whom stayed home in 90...

19/ And that is what happened. The concerted effort of the anti-Duke forces (not just us), challenging Duke's "politics of prejudice," and making the election about what kind of state we wanted to be, drove turnout through the roof...

20/ 28,000+ registered on one day alone, between the initial election and runoff (which Duke made bc of the state's open primary system), with tens of thousands more overall: most of them, anti-Duke folks...

21/ When it was over, Duke had gotten 65k more votes than in 90, but his white share went to 55 (from 60) and overall to 39 (from 44) because the anti-Duke turnout swamped him...So what does this have to do with 2020 and Trump? Do I really need to explain it?...

22/ First, trying to flip Trump voters is a waste of time. Any of them who regret their vote don't need to be pandered to. They'll do the right thing. Don't focus on them. That said, very few will regret their vote. They cannot accept they voted for a monster or got suckered...

23/ Duke retained 94% of the folks he got the first time out (and got new people too), as Trump likely will. So forget these people--or at least don't wast time tailoring messages to them. And policy plans for affordable college don't mean shit to them, nor health care...

24/ Their support for Trump was never about policy. It was about the bigotry, the fact that he hates who they hate...Second, as for the "undecideds." ...Not many of these but seriously? If you're still undecided at this point about this guy...

25/ Then there is almost no way to know what would get you to make up your mind...I doubt it's a plan to deal with Wall Street though, or infrastructure, or tax policy...

26/ If anything, I would say crafting an argument that this is an existential crisis for the nation--and making it about Trump's bigotry and who we want to be as a country, would be far more effective in inspiring them to make up their minds...

27/ And what I know for a FACT is that this message--that Trumpism is a threat to everything we care about and love about this country--is what will inspire the Dem base to vote...and THAT is what this election is about...

28/ I'm not saying the Dems don't need policy ideas, but focusing on wonky, look-how-much-I've-thought about-this stuff is not going to move the needle in 2020...

29/ What the left never understands is: we need to stop approaching elections like the goddamned debate team, and start approaching it like the right does, like the cheerleading squad...

30/ The right knows psychology and we know public policy and sociology...great. The latter does not win elections...

31/ People who say the Dems should ignore Trump's race baiting because its some genius political strategy calculated to distract us, are idiots. He is no genius. And if you downplay it you NORMALIZE him. If you make this about policy, you NORMALIZE him. He is a racist...

32/ He is a white nationalist. He is an authoritarian. He and his cult are a threat to the future of the nation and world because of their hatreds. His movement betrays the country's promise. THAT is the message that will drive turnout. Not debates over marginal tax rates...


33/ Or how we are going to fund schools...And anyone who says we should ignore the race baiting to talk more about Mueller and Russia is an even bigger fool...that's like talking about Duke and late tax payments or other corruptions...it might all be true but is not the point...

34/ Not to say the House shouldn't impeach over that stuff. They should. But the 2020 candidates must craft a message that is not about that. Trumpism is the threat to America, more than Putin. And Putin didn't birth Trumpism. Conservative White America did...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dalton99a (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 01:22 AM

6. Thanks! This helps tremendously!

I used to tell my boys when they were young teens that smart people stay out of fights, but if they happen to be forced to fight then do it to win. This is what we have to do. Fight to win. Not to draw. To win. And screw being a gentleman about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dalton99a (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 03:40 AM

18. I would highlight points 12/13 as well,

because they are quite important.

Especially with the rearview mirror of 2016.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dalton99a (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 06:03 AM

20. Thanks for posting the whole thread. I've been saying this forever.

We can't treat Trump like a normal candidate and discuss issues. A: he's not normal; and B: he knows nothing about issues so you can't debate him. Highlight the racism, the treatment of women, how many taxpayer dollars are being spent on golfing, how he's bankrupting the country in the same way he bankrupted his casino, his lies to his voters about the wall and "the best healthcare ever," etc., etc., etc. There has never been a person in history with this Pandora's box of character flaws.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 12:58 AM

5. This is what I've been saying. It's not enough to call him out on his outrageous statements

And it's not enough to merely call him and his statements racist as if everyone knows that means you instantly win.

You have to spell out why his racism is bad for the country. Evil, divisive, bad for the economy, bad for international relations, bad for peace, bad for everything and everybody.

Racism is not merely something that idly offends liberals. It's a destructive force, and we have to make *that* clear.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 01:23 AM

7. A majority of white people voted for Duke, so majority of white people

were Nazis. That is horrifying.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AJT (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 02:01 AM

10. Yup. I used to live in New Orleans. It was steeped in racism. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 01:40 AM

8. I was there

David Duke lived a mile away, his district was next door, I voter that election.

First, it’s impossible to make a comparison the same way it’s impossible to unequivocally say “the Beatles are best” or “BTS is best”—times change. Measuring which candidate is the better candidate usually works in that slice of time, for the most part.

In the Duke-Edwards matchup, a criminal opposed a Klan member. Except the Klan member had a new twist—-the NAAWP. (National Association for the Advancement of White People) The “oppressed, middle-class white voter” was just taking root, until then most didn’t publicly whine they were getting a bad deal because of blacks. Until Duke came along. So they demanded “fair and balanced” treatment to address their grievances.

Duke promised to correct the overswing that some saw as giving an advantage to blacks over whites rather than a level playing field. And people bought it. There was a pseudo-intellectual argument to excuse their textbook racism. The college-educated Duke supporter was born, and people like Trump are his disciples.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 01:50 AM

9. how do we make Dems listen

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 02:19 AM

11. Very simply we need to run this thing like it's the WWE

We're the HEROES. Trump is the HEEL.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to blogslut (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 03:11 AM

16. Bread and Circus

Absolutely. Why don't Democrats understand that most men just want to compete or brawl, get puffed or feel equal, piss someone off, get pissed and pass out. Republican rallies are like circle jerks. Dems have to start doing the same thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 02:28 AM

12. If the Dems blow this election, the republic is kaput.

No sense in staying for tyranny. It will be time for states and regions to take matters into their own hands.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 02:41 AM

13. Had to bookmark this one - it is that good.

Wise is right. The racist kluxers and nazis will vote Trump anyway. We need to get everyone else to come out and vote who hates everything Trump stands for.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 02:56 AM

14. It's really simple

A knot of tension unfurled after reading this. It brought back the energy of the women’s march and the first immigration march. I hope the candidates take this seriously.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 02:58 AM

15. I hope the Democratic Party takes his

sage advice to heart.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 03:19 AM

17. No shit--and Wise points out that "idiots" and "fools" argue otherwise n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 03:58 AM

19. Racism is the issue that will end Trump or will end US.

Play to win, expose the evil snake.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287208074

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 09:59 AM

21. The damn consultants have been screwing up Dems since the DLC controlled the party.

The DLC may be gone but the consultants who came with them are still advising candidates to avoid the most critical issues.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 10:24 AM

22. They're discussing this tweet thread on MSNBC right NOW!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 12:39 PM

23. Agree, except treason still is a big deal.

The rest, spot-on.

Did you hear that, Hakeem Jeffries?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread