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Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:09 PM

How effective will those ICE raids targeting people with final deportation orders be?

Probably not very. The targeted individuals know that such orders exist and that raids are planned, so most of them will probably not be in the places ICE looks. Most of them haven't been in those places for some time. What does that mean?

What it will probably mean is that a bunch of people who are not named in final deportation orders will be arrested by the ICE officers for other reasons. Many of them will find themselves on the other side of the border without any chance to defend themselves.

Then, Trump will brag about all the people who got deported and we'll know nothing about who they were or the supposed reasons for their deportation.

Worse, there will no doubt be U.S. Citizens swept up in these raids and summarily deported without papers that prove their U.S. citizenship, making it very difficult for them to return to this country. That also happens a lot, and we usually know nothing about it.

Deportation statistics - that's what Trump is after, and the ICE agents will gladly help provide numbers for him to crow about.

That's the unreported truth of what ICE will be doing in these raids. They will go to the addresses on the Deportation orders. Good luck to the people at those addresses. They are at high risk of improper arrest and summary deportation. And we won't hear about their cases. We'll only hear Trump bragging about how effective the raids were.

Meanwhile, the people actually named in final deportation orders won't be where the orders say they are. They've moved on to other locations.

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Reply How effective will those ICE raids targeting people with final deportation orders be? (Original post)
MineralMan Friday OP
underpants Friday #1
MineralMan Friday #7
dalton99a Friday #2
beachbum bob Friday #3
Post removed Friday #4
MineralMan Friday #8
hlthe2b Friday #5
MineralMan Friday #9
hlthe2b Friday #10
MineralMan Friday #12
MineralMan Friday #11
ProudLib72 Friday #24
hlthe2b Friday #25
Thomas Hurt Friday #6
Midnightwalk Friday #13
MineralMan Friday #15
Bettie Friday #14
MineralMan Friday #16
Bettie Friday #17
panader0 Friday #18
brush Friday #19
Hekate Friday #20
MineralMan Friday #23
Everyman Jackal Friday #21
MineralMan Friday #22

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:13 PM

1. We just moved into a new house last week

I hadn’t thought about the next-tenant element. Wow this is going to be really sad.

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Response to underpants (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:23 PM

7. Law enforcement at all levels lacks subtlety.

One day at my house in St. Paul, MN, I was working at my computer when I heard very loud knocking at my kitchen door. I went upstairs to check on it. I could see a couple of cops at the door, so I opened it.

"Where is {name}!?!

"There's nobody here by that name."

"We know he's in there. Can we come in?"

"No. I told you, there is nobody here by that name."

"We have a warrant for {name's} arrest."

"What address is on your warrant."

"2076 {street name}"

"This is 2067 {Name of next street to the south of the street they named}"

Anyhow, after telling them to go to the front of the house and look at the street number, and then telling them to go to the nearest cross street and check the name of the street, I simply shut the door and went back to work. They were at the wrong address on the wrong street. Fortunately, they did not barge into my home to try to find {name}. That's probably because I'm an old white man, and the name they said did not sound like an old white man's name.

And that's how the wrong people get arrested or worse by law enforcement people. It happens all the time. And those ICE people aren't familiar with the neighborhoods they'll be going to, so it will be even worse.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:13 PM

2. They'll sweep up nonwhites who have a foreign accent and don't have a U.S. passport




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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:13 PM

3. instilling fear in the illegal community and applause from the GOP community so its another win

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:25 PM

8. Gosh, that sounds a lot like something a right-winger would say.

So, I'm not going to bother explaining it to you.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:17 PM

5. Most police from major cities have already said they are not assisting-- including use of databases

I know in Denver, there has been a MAJOR educational campaign from ACLU, the mayor's office, and other immigrant support groups to educate on legal rights--including the fact that an ADMINISTRATIVE WARRANT IS NOT a LEGALLY BINDING SEARCH WARRANT (the former has no judge's signature) and thus they have no obligation to allow entrance to the home and if ICE forces their way in, they should call the police (and a lawyer). They have also provided an app that allows for video to be directly streamed to a website so that it could not be forcibly deleted from the phone before uploading. I have it on my phone too.

I don't believe I have any neighbors anywhere close by that would be affected, but boy would I stand up for them if I saw them being mistreated.

This is like sending a SWAT team for a jaywalker. Yes, the latter technically broke the law, but really? This is the priority for Immigration enforcement?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:27 PM

9. A majority of my neighbors speak a different language as their

primary language - not English. They're also not Caucasians. So, it's possible that the ICE cops could show up on my street.

I have Hmong neighbors, Somali neighbors, and Hispanic neighbors.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:32 PM

10. I have East Indian, Latino and Asian neighbors (I think Korean), but they all work in

professions that I think it would be nearly impossible not to have come "through the system"...

Then again, you never know and they COULD have some relatives with them that are undocumented, so I will have my "antennae" up...

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:34 PM

12. Yes, keep your eyes open.

Many mistakes could be made by people unfamiliar with your area.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:33 PM

11. Yes. There have been TV PSAs running about those rights here.

I don't think the Twin Cities of MN are among the targeted cities, though.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 05:00 PM

24. I know for a fact we have some major Hispanic gangs in the Denver metro area

And I keep waiting for backlash from them. You know, in certain areas, things could get really ugly really fast.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 05:05 PM

25. Yes. We do. As does LA and Chicago.

I'll bet instead that ICE will target the otherwise law-abiding and peaceful mixed families for their own safety and maximum "terror" benefit. All the more tragic.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:18 PM

6. Inevitably they are going to snatched up legal immigrants and citizens...

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:36 PM

13. Sounds pretty effective

As you suggest the “unreported truth” is that the goals are not exactly what is stated. I’m pretty sure you mean that everything you mention is a feature not a bug.

One thing you didn’t mention is the logistics and expense of deporting the 1M people with final deportation orders and the larger set of people who haven’t is hard. They don’t really want to get everyone this time.

It is very depressing typing that and realizing that the brutality will continue to increase.

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Response to Midnightwalk (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:38 PM

15. Well, it's true that ICE probably doesn't really care.

Their success will be measured by counting the number of people apprehended, without reference to whether those apprehensions were justified. There have been many horror stories about ICE raids.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:36 PM

14. As long as they get some

"law and order" pictures of them treating people with brown skin brutally (bonus for extra guns pointed at them), the raids will have done their job. It is all about stoking racism and making sure the worst anti-immigrant feelings in our country are kept at a fever pitch.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:39 PM

16. That and instilling fear among immigrants. That's the other goal.

When the troopers come in the night...

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 12:54 PM

17. Yeah, that goes along with it

heck, even the threats of raids are enough to make immigrants afraid.

I'm so tired of....well, everything. It's like standing in front of a water cannon of sewage every freaking day.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 01:08 PM

18. I predict a disaster.

If you were here illegally and knew that a raid was coming, you'd go stay somewhere else for a while. Innocents will be arrested. There will be some violence, perhaps on each side.
Much money will be spent. The optics will be terrible.
In other words, typical Trump BS.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 02:46 PM

19. Let's see if the raids actually come off. trump backed off before. And what's up with...

the several days warning—"We're coming this weekend, we're coming"?

It's like they're giving people time to find a good place to not be found.

And where are they going to house all these people? Imagine the video and images of people being rounded up and crowded into buses and put in more pens, or even hotels as is rumored.

This won't go over well for trump, and trump probably needs to stop putting so much faith in the little nazi Steven Miller's judgment.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 04:12 PM

20. I believe the whole point is to sow chaos and terror. In that, he will succeed.

Gods I hate him.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 04:59 PM

23. Yes. Terrorizing the immigrant community is his goal.

Of that, I'm certain, or he wouldn't be acting as he is. He is totally unconcerned about the sentiments of that community, and seeks to dehumanize and demoralize everyone in that community.

He is succeeding in doing so.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 04:55 PM

21. I hope that not only don't the cities give them any help

but their police forces shadow ICE wherever they go.

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Response to Everyman Jackal (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 04:57 PM

22. The problem with that is that rank-and-file cops are probably

pretty well aligned with the ICE officers. That's the sad fact, I'm afraid.

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