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Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:15 PM

That was a massive win today

The Citizenship question will not be on the Census. The Supreme Court ruled and he had to back down. You can celebrate this victory and still point out his attempts to terrorize non-whites by other means.

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Reply That was a massive win today (Original post)
malaise Thursday OP
Bettie Thursday #1
jberryhill Thursday #2
BamaRefugee Thursday #9
CrispyQ Friday #32
panader0 Thursday #3
rurallib Thursday #4
Celerity Thursday #5
malaise Thursday #7
pangaia Thursday #21
Thekaspervote Thursday #29
kentuck Thursday #11
former9thward Thursday #18
StarfishSaver Thursday #19
NRaleighLiberal Thursday #6
kentuck Thursday #12
ancianita Thursday #17
CaptainTruth Thursday #22
ancianita Thursday #23
JenniferJuniper Thursday #8
Fiendish Thingy Thursday #10
QED Thursday #15
Scurrilous Thursday #13
moondust Thursday #14
EveHammond13 Thursday #16
watoos Thursday #20
CaptainTruth Thursday #25
RobinA Thursday #24
customerserviceguy Thursday #26
Iliyah Thursday #27
roody Friday #31
Demovictory9 Thursday #28
underpants Friday #30

Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:17 PM

1. You know, I trust you

so I'll take your word for it.

I have not read about it as yet, but I'll take any win we can get.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:25 PM

2. It's a foiled loss

I look at a “win” as something that moves us all forward in the right direction.

Successively preventing yet another piece of crazy ass shit from this band of evil nitwits is just holding ground.

One of the things I missed in Ken Burns’ The Civil War the first time, was the poignancy of the periodic “updates on what’s happening in the rest of the world” while the US was preoccupied with having to put down a rebellion of shitheads.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:02 PM

9. YES, this.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 11:51 AM

32. +1

Does Pelosi realize that fifteen months out people are already losing hope? I read she's worried about those new House seats we took in 2018 & I say she'd better be! Those new voters who gave us those seats did so because they wanted this administration held accountable, not so the House could punt this off to the voters in 2020.

Mueller testimony delayed another week:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2340467

Supposedly this is to give the dems more question time during the testimony, but the article linked in the post doesn't say that the dems actually got more time.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:27 PM

3. The idiot-in -chief declares he will get the information elsewhere.

Where it's always been. He declares his loss as a victory and his
ignorant followers will believe him.
My outrage meter is dead but every once in while it twitches a mite.
Why was Ross there? The whole spectacle is absurd. Dump Trump.
P.S.--any non-citizens that need a place to stay during trump's wild
west roundup can come to my casa. I have three empty bedrooms
since the kids left.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:33 PM

4. Malaise, I do not think he is done yet

He is playing possum waiting for an opening.
Here is the way I see it:

1) he has already intimidated a lot of people who are justifiably scared of being caught.

2) The census will go on as relatively normal.

3) Now here is where I am not sure about procedures, but redistricting will take place in 2021.

4) Trump has already said that they will get non-citizen populations from "other sources"

5) Whatever agency (Commerce dept?) that conveys the populations to the state will subtract non-citizen populations from state totals. I am guessing they can do this down to a county or maybe even lower level.

6) Trump will issue an executive order that redistricting is to be done based on the "citizen numbers"

7) Sure there will be a lawsuit - it may be filed before the election.

8) we have to get that SOB out.

I suspect that the "other sources" for populations will include voter roll that have been subject to the Kobach cross check system. That should cut a substantial number.

I don't think they are done with this by any means. No doubt RW think tanks will be have this as a top priority.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:35 PM

5. +10000, they are going to still try and cook the census books ex post facto

via 'alternative means'

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Response to rurallib (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:40 PM

7. Neither do I but he did not dare disobey the Supreme Court

That is a Constitutional win.

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Response to malaise (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:56 PM

21. The SC, even though it is majority fascists, is still hanging by a thread...

if/once that goes, ...well...

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Response to malaise (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:49 PM

29. Yes... and I for one did a happy dance...

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Response to rurallib (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:12 PM

11. It was an elaborate scheme...

An attorney on Rachel's show said they had estimated that 9 million Hispanics would not fill out the census form, which translated into about 11 possible House seats. It sounds to me like they are preparing to steal another election.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:36 PM

18. They will still not fill out the form.

I worked for the Census in 2010 in Phoenix and getting heavily Hispanic areas to fill out the form was very difficult.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:40 PM

19. Perhaps, but that wouldn't affect the 2020 election

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:19 PM

12. Right on!

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:36 PM

17. Citizen-based districting at state levels will be overruled as unconstitutional. It'll be ongoing

lawyer wars but they won't win. The Law says we count persons. Which isn't for federal actions (accounting, programs, etc) but for state qualifications for federal funds.

States can't make up districting rules that exclude persons.

I think they imagine a country of cordoned off "citizens" zones.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:58 PM

22. From legal discussions I saw today, SCOTUS has ruled it is constitutional.

There's a SCOTUS ruling saying it's constitutional & legal to draw districts based on a subset of the total population.

That is unless that subset is, for example, clearly discriminatory, like districts drawn based on the number of white people only.

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #22)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:11 PM

23. They ruled that they can't rule on state districting, so I guess, yes. But it seems that in national

elections, state level supreme court rulings can't just be based on state constitutionality, seems to me.

This ruling doesn't change standing of states, though, to show up with new cases, so as this Census's numbers change new districting, maybe there'll be new cases, arguments to change future SCOTUS rulings.

Otherwise, there will have to be state efforts to eliminate the Electoral College and go with the popular vote.

It can be done. Maybe with a Democratic Senate and real push.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 09:12 PM

8. I'm a citizen of Fucktrumpia...

was how I was going to answer.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:11 PM

10. I think he's truly terrified of being impeached, regardless of whether the Senate convict him

His narcissistic ego could not handle it, so he backs away from the precipice of defying SCOTUS, which would surely be one of the articles of impeachment, whenever Congress got around to voting on it.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:30 PM

15. I wonder who was able to convince him of that defying the SC would lead to impeachment.

I mean, he has the best mind, right? Maybe Jarvanka actually did something.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:21 PM

13. K&R

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:23 PM

14. Neal Katyal agrees.

Says it's a huge win. On The Last Word.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:31 PM

16. one thing is guaranteed: trump's fuckery is not over

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:54 PM

20. Thank you ACLU,

just a reminder a donation makes you a card carrying member.

States cannot redistrict using citizens only as their numbers.

Yes this was a big win but the damage is already done. Latinos are not going to fill out the census. Trump has created so much fear that Latinos won't even answer the door. People in the know are estimating that this census will be underestimated in the millions of people. Trump may have lost 1 battle but he moved right away to a new front promising Ice raids in several cities on Sunday. Whether or not Trump carries out those raids he is keeping people in fear.

Whoever is the brains behind Trump is one fucking smart, diabolical sob.

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Response to watoos (Reply #20)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:13 PM

25. Yes, states CAN redistrict counting only citizens, or eligible voters as GOP plan seems to be.


On Twitter @msbellows has great (& scary) analysis of this. A SCOTUS. case (Burns I think) upholds this.

[link:
?s=19|


[link:
?s=19|


Anyone else aggravated that no MSNBC hosts except @AriMelber seem to understand the danger of the eligible voters-based redistricting effort Trump announced today? I'm tearing my hair. Lookin' straight at you, @Lawrence @MaddowBlog.



Great Q. But no, because the number of seats each state gets ("apportionment" must be based on Census population, but districts WITHIN each state ("redistricting" do not. Which carries an extremely ugly historical analogy: ...
https://t.co/JuaM1Zzwqe


IOW, it appears that Trump just announced a policy of encouraging states to redistrict in ways that do not count huge numbers of mostly-Black citizens, most concentrated in Dem-stronghold cities -- and ordered all federal agencies to help them do so.

Which is super scary: ...

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:12 PM

24. The Supreme Court Case

was the win. Sort of. Today was just Trump typically calling off his bluff. Next week it’ll be something else. Last week or so it was the ICE arrests. Although I think he’s going another round with that one, so he’ll have to walk that back one day soon. Or drop it - never to be heard of again.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:18 PM

26. Do you really think

that immigrant families (especially those in the US without papers) will feel comfortable giving up personal information on a census form during the Trump administration? Especially if they're afraid that he might be re-elected?

The damage is done.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:40 PM

27. I canvassed for the census for the

Hispanic areas here in Los Angeles, and to be honest, majority of the illegals did not fill out the app. California has a huge legal Hispanic community.

Same for other illegals from Asia, Middle East, and Europe. Many did not fill out the app.

Therefore, the population for the USA is off by millions.

Now jerkoff and his evil cronies may try and trap the illegals another way but hopefully by that time the present EVIL whatever they are will be gone, including the McTurtle, and Dems control congress and WH.

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Response to Iliyah (Reply #27)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 08:08 AM

31. 'Illegal' is an adjective, not a noun.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:42 PM

28. k&r

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 05:22 AM

30. Yes it was but really it was already decided

First, the census is a function of Congress not the POTUS
Second, the courts had already decided this

Lastly and most telling, a hole had to come out and give his opinion on it. Why? No one knows. He (that position) has nothing to do with it.

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