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Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:24 AM

If Dems Played by Republican Rules (ie "dirty") Would We Gain Favor or Lose Voters?

This question derives from reading several posts about how Dems should play hardball. For example this post about invoking rules of decorum when Mueller testifies: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212234783 Or this post about the House cutting funding: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12234685



Personally, I see the situation not so much as losing the moral high ground as stand your ground. Yes, I believe we are at that point. So I'm going with gaining favor (and more voters.)

What is your opinion?

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Reply If Dems Played by Republican Rules (ie "dirty") Would We Gain Favor or Lose Voters? (Original post)
ProudLib72 Jul 2019 OP
BlueTsunami2018 Jul 2019 #1
RandySF Jul 2019 #2
ProudLib72 Jul 2019 #4
dansolo Jul 2019 #13
elleng Jul 2019 #3
msongs Jul 2019 #5
Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #6
Celerity Jul 2019 #12
ProudLib72 Jul 2019 #16
Historic NY Jul 2019 #7
dustyscamp Jul 2019 #8
marlakay Jul 2019 #9
Midnight Writer Jul 2019 #10
Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #11
JustThinking... Jul 2019 #14
Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #15

Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:29 AM

1. Moral high ground is bullshit.

When you have morals, ethics and standards and the people you’re fighting do not, you’re handcuffing yourself before the fight starts. The right uses that crap against us every time.

Do whatever it takes to win by hook or by crook. Lie, cheat, steal, kill. Because only the winners make policy.

Let good, humane policies be the “moral high ground” we can point to. Give no quarter to the fascists.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:32 AM

2. The So Called Liberal Media would never let Dems get away with it.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:40 AM

4. That is definitely a point worth considering

How would the MSM react? You may be right that they would lash out. On the other hand, they might follow strength. In the instance of invoking rules of decorum, how could the MSM present that negatively? And right after the Rs did it?

While I take your point, I disagree that the MSM's reaction is a foregone conclusion.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 06:35 AM

13. Bullshit

They don't follow strength. They will push a narrative around conflict or what helps the moneyed interests. Have you been not paying attention for the past 25 years? The MSM has long shown us who they really are.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 12:36 AM

3. Both

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:22 AM

5. action is what counts. not meangingless words and hand wringing nt

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 01:34 AM

6. Our nominee should play dirty if needed. Dems attacking Dems in the primary...WRONG

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 06:23 AM

12. One person's 'attack' is another's effective strategy to try and win.

Politics is not an arena for the meek, the non-adapting, or the slow.

The primaries are not designed to be coronation or a lovefest or a dog and pony show or kabuki theatre.

No candidates are going to get a pass through, especially as this all is prep to take on the profoundly unscrupulous uber-goon Rump.

2008, from all that I have read and watched, was brutal, and yet yielded a rapier-sharp Obama who decimated the detestable warhawk, John 'Bomb Iran' McCain.

Running the gauntlet is a necessary stress test.

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 11:17 AM

16. I was speaking of Dems in Congress playing dirty against Rs

Yes, Dems attacking Dems is not right

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 02:07 AM

7. Well it about time we do.....

until that happens they keep walking all over them.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 02:15 AM

8. Yes we would, but we would just be as scummy as the Rethugs

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 03:33 AM

9. Then the problem would be

Why vote both parties are the same. I used to hear this knocking on doors of young people when they saw two old white guys running no matter what the issues were.

Then Obama and Hillary changed that up and now if it ends up two old guys again who knows?

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 04:34 AM

10. I am a Democrat because I believe it to be the party of morals, of values, of fairness, of honesty.

If I no longer believe that, then fuck them all. What's the point of working for the bad guys?

I saw a man on TV a while back who was a Republican Party operative. He quit the Party when Trump was elected and has since been working with some Democratic candidates. He made an interesting observation.


He said the meetings with Republicans was always about how to help the rich get richer. It was tax cuts and regulatory "relief" and foreign policies that were good for business.


But with Democrats, it is about health care, environment, fair pay, equal rights, justice and peace.


According to him, it is much easier to go the Republican route, but much more gratifying to work on Democratic issues.


We have to fight hard without becoming the bad guys. I believe that is doable.

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 06:00 AM

11. Well said nt

 

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 06:43 AM

14. I don't think modeling ourselves after repubs is a winning strategy.

 

However, loosening our own self-imposed restraints might be wise.

The repubs play dirty as a general rule. That is the position they come from on any issue, it is their entire mindset, and honestly I believe the only reason they are in this at all is for the opportunity to cause hurt and win whatever fight they can find, doesn't matter what the fight is about.

In a crisis such as this must be willing to accept the fact that sometimes we will have to do things we are not proud of to achieve a higher goal. If an opportunity DOES come up to permanently weaken their position in any way, we should take that opportunity without hesitation even it means 'playing dirty' or risking msm backlash.

The only objective is to protect and defend our democracy and the rights of all people. Delivering sharp, quick, fatal blows to the opposition whenever possible while maintaining the integrity of our overall position is a solid defensive measure.

The blows themselves may be dirty plays, but the integrity of our moral position stands strong. No half measures, no little zingers, either take them out or conserve the energy for the next opportunity.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 09:44 AM

15. The GOP appeals to the dumb and the mean

 

Democrats and progressives don't think like that. While acting as unprincipled as republicans may feel good for some on the extreme, it will alienate many, many more and just feed into the false narrative that both sides are just as bad.

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