Mon Jul 1, 2019, 09:29 AM

kentuck (108,851 posts)

But what about "what aboutism"?

Trump supporters are now in their "what about" defense.

No matter how serious the charges, they respond with "What about Obama", or "What about Hillary?"

If you mention the children being locked up on the border, and some dying in America's custody, they say "What about Obama and the 'Fast and Furious'?

If you mention the education plan of Democratic candidates to pay off student debt, they say, "We don't need a college education....how about a new car?"

If you mention the murder of Khasoggi by the Saudi assassins, they say, "What about Hillary and Benghazi?"

The "what aboutism" is all about covering for Donald Trump, no matter what charges might come up.

Yeah, what about all those babies dying with abortions?

These people make it impossible to compromise on anything. You have two choices. Fight or surrender.

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10 replies	Author	Time	Post
But what about "what aboutism"? (Original post)	kentuck	Jul 2019	OP
Nothing wrong with whataboutism . People have gone to great lengths to try to make	Fullduplexxx	Jul 2019	#1
it is a bad thing. it needs to be recognized and called out.	maxsolomon	Jul 2019	#2
I dont agree .. but i understand why people dont like them	Fullduplexxx	Jul 2019	#4
it's a logical fallacy - as i said, it's purpose is to derail.	maxsolomon	Jul 2019	#6
I think it's purpose is to clarify not derail	Fullduplexxx	Jul 2019	#8
Then explain how it clarifies a topic.	maxsolomon	Jul 2019	#9
Well we dont know that bill raped her nor do we know that trump raped jean carrol however	Fullduplexxx	Jul 2019	#10
Whataboutism is merely predicating one standard on another. Hence, it's invalid.	LanternWaste	Jul 2019	#5
I dont agree it is invalid nor do i agree with your statement	Fullduplexxx	Jul 2019	#7
" You have two choices. Fight or surrender."	mitch96	Jul 2019	#3

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 10:11 AM

Fullduplexxx (6,832 posts)

1. Nothing wrong with whataboutism . People have gone to great lengths to try to make

Whataboutism a bad thing.

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 12:20 PM

maxsolomon (30,030 posts)

2. it is a bad thing. it needs to be recognized and called out.

it wastes time and derails discussions, which is the point. rational debate of important issues becomes impossible.

it is an essential component of Putin's propaganda, along with the firehose of falsehood, and Trump/GOP have adapted both.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 01:56 PM

Fullduplexxx (6,832 posts)

4. I dont agree .. but i understand why people dont like them

It "wastes time" it depends on how you define wastes ... people dont like it because it brings up little inconveniences in their argument that yhey dont want to deal with because it weakens their own position . So give it derogatory label and dismiss it.

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 02:27 PM

maxsolomon (30,030 posts)

6. it's a logical fallacy - as i said, it's purpose is to derail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 06:14 PM

Fullduplexxx (6,832 posts)

8. I think it's purpose is to clarify not derail

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 06:25 PM

maxsolomon (30,030 posts)

9. Then explain how it clarifies a topic.

Par exemplo:

Statement: Trump raped E. Jean Carroll in the restroom of a Bergdorf Goodman.

Whataboutism: Well, Bill Clinton raped Juanita Brodderick.

Implication: Dems are hypocrites, they only care about rape when it's a Republic that does it. Therefore, it does not matter that the sitting POTUS is credibly accused of rape.

How does the whataboutism of Bill Clinton's actions "clarify" Trump's rape accusation?

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 2, 2019, 04:58 PM

Fullduplexxx (6,832 posts)

10. Well we dont know that bill raped her nor do we know that trump raped jean carrol however

Although ms carroll seems much more credible that ms broaderick
In this case it would tell you whether or not the person you are talking cares about the issue or only cares that trump did it .

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 02:05 PM

LanternWaste (37,748 posts)

5. Whataboutism is merely predicating one standard on another. Hence, it's invalid.

Whataboutism is merely predicating one ethical standard on another, wholly separate standard. Hence, it's invalid.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 06:12 PM

Fullduplexxx (6,832 posts)

7. I dont agree it is invalid nor do i agree with your statement

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2019, 12:22 PM

mitch96 (12,046 posts)

3. " You have two choices. Fight or surrender."

What-a-boutism is all "about" changing the narrative from what you are talking about to what they want to talk about.. Don't play that game. .KellyAnn is a master at this. Use a bit of your statement to sound like they are answering the question and a bunch of negative that supports their idea. It's all about them putting you on the defensive and changing the subject to what supports them.
When I get confronted with this tactic, I politely say we are not taking about their topic now. We are talking about what I said. We can talk about what you want after this point is discussed. Keep going back to your topic, not theirs. If they can't change the subject to their topic they usually run out of steam... get frustrated and go away.
mE

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