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eridani

(51,907 posts)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:02 AM Aug 2012

Juan Cole on the white terrorist plot to assassinate the Commander in Chief

If one of them were named Mohammed, we'd be hearing a lot more about this.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/13166-white-terrorist-plot-to-assassinate-the-commander-in-chief

A white terrorist cell on a military base in Georgia plotted to assassinate President Barack Obama and stage a military coup. It murdered two former members of the cell. It bought $87,000 of military grade weaponry and land in Washington state. It planned to bomb a dam in Washington and poison its apple crop. It planned to take over Fort Stewart in Georgia.

The National Security Agency is massively and illegally spying on ordinary Americans. Peace activists are bothered by police and put on watch lists. Journalists like Amy Goodman have been beaten up for covering peaceful protests. The NYPD conducted extensive espionage on American citizens of Muslim heritage not only in NYC but far beyond their jurisdiction. Rep. Peter King of New York keeps holding hearings on the alleged radicalization of American Muslims (who are mostly pillars of the American establishment; King himself supports IRA terrorism).

But extremist white Christian soldiers want to kill the president and privately stockhold thousands of dollars worth of military grade weapons? Apparently if they hadn't started murdering people they could have flown under the radar on all that.

All those right wing politicians and commentators who kept hammering Obama as a foreigner, a Muslim, illegitimate, a budding dictator– they created the hothouse atmosphere that fostered this kind of evil.

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Juan Cole on the white terrorist plot to assassinate the Commander in Chief (Original Post) eridani Aug 2012 OP
"Republicans aren't responsible for having crazed assassins among them..." 99th_Monkey Aug 2012 #1
I don't think you're on the right rhetorical track here Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #10
You associate anarchists with OWS? Oilwellian Aug 2012 #13
Well, there were those 5 clowns arrested in Cleveland recently. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #15
They have called themselves 'anarchists', but one was a page at the 2008 Republican convention muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #19
I see plenty anarchists rioting and trying to blow up bridges Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #21
V for Vendetta was also set in a totalitarian state muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #22
No, I'm arguing that it's hypocritical for people salivating for stochastic terrorism Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #25
"people salivating for stochastic terrorism"? Who the fuck are you talking about? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #26
Wherever they may have been in 2008 they seem to self-identify as anarchists in 2012 Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #28
You apparently self identify as a Democrat. Brewinblue Aug 2012 #32
"your interpretation of V for Vendetta leads me to assume" Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #34
Count yourself among those duped by misinformation 99th_Monkey Aug 2012 #29
Apparently they're not very good skinheads either Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #30
*Sigh* 99th_Monkey Aug 2012 #31
I would not dispute the media has issues Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #33
Not exactly the kind of profile that resembles any "anarchist" I've ever heard of. 99th_Monkey Aug 2012 #35
Recall the "poutrage" of our so-called Congress when this was PCIntern Aug 2012 #2
PCIntern Diclotican Aug 2012 #4
We should be taking legal action based on novels and B-movies? wow n/t Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2012 #11
Yeah, that's what I wrote... PCIntern Aug 2012 #16
'Stone Cold,' starring Brian Bosworth, was a prescient film? RZM Aug 2012 #14
You don't think that this recent uncovering of this plot PCIntern Aug 2012 #17
are you saying that bad people don't try to copy movie plots from bad films? CreekDog Aug 2012 #27
I'm not an expert but wouldn't it have been more effective fasttense Aug 2012 #3
Washington State = privacy to "train" Myrina Aug 2012 #5
Attacking from a nearby location is much easier fasttense Aug 2012 #36
For starters rural Washington state is pretty isolated Blue_Tires Aug 2012 #20
Aguigui is from Washington State muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #23
Our corporate media do not want to hurt the "brand." Years from now we will probably find Dustlawyer Aug 2012 #6
If one of them were named Mohammed, we'd be hearing a lot more about this. spanone Aug 2012 #7
White ... terrorist ... Does Not Compute. Does Not Compute. nt eppur_se_muova Aug 2012 #8
K&R. Well said. Overseas Aug 2012 #9
These are the kind of assclowns that want to keep Limbaugh on AFRS. lpbk2713 Aug 2012 #12
Since extremist white Christian soldiers act exactly in the manner the right wing indepat Aug 2012 #18
This is paranoia and ego run amok superpatriotman Aug 2012 #24
 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
1. "Republicans aren't responsible for having crazed assassins among them..."
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:08 AM
Aug 2012

Republicans aren't responsible for having crazed assassins among them– that would be guilt by association. But they are responsible for promoting irrationality by using fear, demonization, taboos, innuendo and coded race discourse. It is reasoned argument that makes for democracy. Karl Rove and Rupert Murdoch and Koch brothers' rhetorical tactics release chickens that eventually will come to roost.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
10. I don't think you're on the right rhetorical track here
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 09:32 AM
Aug 2012

The plotters are anarchists. I'd hazard a guess that you'll find anarchists more closely affiliated with OWS than the GOP as large corporate structures don't lend well to anarachist sentitments.

I'm not sure "coded race discourse" works either as one of the plotters is named Aguigui, a South-Pacific Islander heritage.

And if I may point out, just for the accuracy of record -- your complaint about "rhetorical tactics release chickens that eventually will come to roost" rings hollow when you use an avatar that romanticizes a depraved terrorist.

Still, I suppose it's fun to whip up hatred of The Others so long as you get to say, "they started it!"

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
13. You associate anarchists with OWS?
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:28 AM
Aug 2012

Interesting. I attended 3 anti-Iraq war protests during the Bush years and the anarchists were there burning the flag. Using your logic, anarchists are closely affiliated with Democrats protesting against Bush policies. RiDICKulous.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
15. Well, there were those 5 clowns arrested in Cleveland recently.
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:48 AM
Aug 2012

They considered themselves anarchists affiliated with Occupy; so I did not make my statement out of wholecloth, I merely state what they consider their affiliations to be.

To be fair to Occupy, I doubt the vast majority of them harbor violent fantasies or anarchist tendencies. They're biggest sin -- if it is even a sin -- is being so loosely defined it makes it too easy for groups like the 5 knuckleheads in Cleveland to operate on the fringes.

I know anarchists hate corporatism because its hyper-organized, but I fail to see why they insist on glomming on to progressive causes. I for one would favor a national healthcare system. That would require a hyper-organized government apparatus; not the sort of thing an anarchist would be party to, if I understand them correctly.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
19. They have called themselves 'anarchists', but one was a page at the 2008 Republican convention
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 12:54 PM
Aug 2012

You may have missed that - it is from a link in Cole's piece, from just before the quote that 99th Monkey gave (post #1 was entirely a quote from Cole). Here's where Cole's link goes to:

Shortly after the media frenzy over these "anarchist" militant revolutionaries and their alleged aspirations to overthrow the government (with $87,000 of weapons and multiple members with loose lips), Gawker revealed that their leader, Isaac Aguigui was apparently a page at the Republican National Convention in 2008.

Gawker reports that they found a photo of what appears to be Aguigui, or maybe just a guy who looks incredibly like him and also has the name "Isaac Aguigui."

The caption of the photograph says "Republican National Convention page Isaac Aguigui watches from the edge of the floor at the start of the first session of the 2008 Republican National Convention in St. Paul, Minnesota September 1, 2008."

http://www.businessinsider.com/anarchist-leader-in-assassination-plot-was-republican-page-in-2008-convention-2012-8


That's why Cole talks about the Republicans; and he is saying that, while they can't control what their pages do in the next 4 years, they have stirred up fear and loathing (eg the birther shit) which has promoted an atmosphere in which extremists like these guys (assuming they are guilty of the murders) flourish. It also looks unlikely that they are anything like OWS 'anarchists', given his support for Republicans just 4 years ago (and their enlisting in the army). As far as Cole's 'coded race discourse' phrase goes, Aguigui may have some Pacific Islander heritage, but not a lot, I'd suggest, looking at his photograph. It certainly wouldn't rule out him being susceptible to racist garbage from the likes of Limbaugh that could make him see the president as 'foreign'.

As far as the avatar goes - it seems fairly irrelevant (especially since they were just pointing out a particular paragraph of Cole's), but the path from Guy Fawkes to the mask used by Anonymous and some OWS protesters is somewhat long. I think you are mistaken in accusing 99th Monkey of "whipping up hatred of The Others".

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
21. I see plenty anarchists rioting and trying to blow up bridges
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 01:12 PM
Aug 2012

And V for Vendetta was a stupid, asinine movie that preaches political violence such as what occured with the anarchist militia. There is nothing sympathetic about Fawkes, either in real life or in the terrorism-worshipping depiction from the movie. It's The Turner Diaries with a regrettably large budget. I could not care less what path OWS took to become comfortable with adopting the image of a smirking, arrogant, self-aggrandizing terrorist but it reflects poorly on both their thinking and marketing abilities.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
22. V for Vendetta was also set in a totalitarian state
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 01:31 PM
Aug 2012

of the sort that democracies say deserve uprisings (eg against Hitler or Stalin). No, comparing it to The Turner Diaries is stupid and asinine. I am amazed to see any DUer get it so wrong.

You are being deliberately ignorant if you don't care about how an avatar you object to so much was arrived at.

Since your entire reply has been on the subject of the avatar, I assume you acknowledge you were wrong in all your other points that I argued against.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
25. No, I'm arguing that it's hypocritical for people salivating for stochastic terrorism
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 02:14 PM
Aug 2012

run around idolizing a terrorist and torturer depicted in a crappy movie based on a sophomoric comic book that romanticizes the history of the real sectarian terrorist, Guy Fawkes.

So the chucklehead was a page at the 2008 RNC. He also planned to shoot-up an army base. Knowing the GOPs love of all things military, the MIC, imperialist wars etc. etc. etc. I guess his allegiance to the party platform pretty much ended there.

And then there was your absurd assertion that even though Aguigui was SPI he was probably white enough to be a white supremacist. Pointless, baseless supposition meant to force a narrative.

Aguigui may have some Pacific Islander heritage, but not a lot, I'd suggest, looking at his photograph. It certainly wouldn't rule out him being susceptible to racist garbage from the likes of Limbaugh that could make him see the president as 'foreign'.


"[look] at his photograph"

Talk about racist garbage.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
26. "people salivating for stochastic terrorism"? Who the fuck are you talking about?
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 02:26 PM
Aug 2012

The only people possibly "salivating for stochastic terrorism" are those 4 charged with the murders.

You are making no sense whatsoever.

"I guess his allegiance to the party platform pretty much ended there. "

Or his hatred for the commander-in-chief was such that he wanted to cause chaos in the military that is fine with him.

I said fuck all about "white supremacist". I said the guy can still be racist. Especially against Obama, who has been demonised by Republicans as "non-American", "Kenyan" etc.

Look at his photograph. Do yuou think he considers himself the same race as Obama? No. Then he can be racist against Obama.

Fuck your "racist garbage" comment. You have really lost it in on this subject. You're attacking DUers, when presented with a militia with Republican links who wanted to assassinate Obama.

Your posts are worthless. However you've dug yourself into this hole, stop now. You're making yourself look like a reactionary apologist for Republican talking points about Obama.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
28. Wherever they may have been in 2008 they seem to self-identify as anarchists in 2012
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 03:02 PM
Aug 2012
Look at his photograph. Do yuou think he considers himself the same race as Obama? No. Then he can be racist against Obama.


*CAN* he be racist? Certainly but supposing racism based on nothing more than his photograph is an appeal to judge him by his appearance absent any knowledge of his motives. Why even suggest a racist motive with no underlying reason while pointing to his photograph? To me that spells racist garbage. It's the literal definition of prejudice.

However you've dug yourself into this hole, stop now. You're making yourself look like a reactionary apologist for Republican talking points about Obama.


What hole have I dug? Is my name going on a list as a traitor to The People's Revolution? "Reactionary apologist"? Laying the cliches on a little heavy, aren't we? Why not toss-in "Zionist imperialist running dog lackey" while you're at it. Heck I've already been called a Nazi sympathizer for Israel once today; this just brings the absurdity full circle.

And how did President Obama even get into this conversation? Near as I can tell Obama and the army were the intended vicitms of the plot, not any comments by me.

BTW -- V for Vendetta is a ridiculously insipid story glamourizing an abusive terrorist and to use its imagery while criticizing political violence is hypocritical.

Brewinblue

(392 posts)
32. You apparently self identify as a Democrat.
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 05:51 PM
Aug 2012

Just sayin . . .

And, your interpretation of V for Vendetta leads me to assume you consider Nazi resistance fighters to have been, well, dangerous hooligans I guess.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
34. "your interpretation of V for Vendetta leads me to assume"
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:04 PM
Aug 2012

V was not an anti-Nazi resistance fighter. He did, however, employ kidnapping, torture, indoctrination and violence to -- do what exactly?

Oh yeah!

Resist against kidnapping, torture, indoctrination and violence. That's as absurd as running around killing Jews and Gypsies to prove how dastardly the Nazis would become. An insipid movie based on the childish idolization of a sectarian terrorist.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
29. Count yourself among those duped by misinformation
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 05:14 PM
Aug 2012

The use of the word "anarchist" here with these RW skinhead dweebs would
be laughable were it not for people who swallow such rubbish unquestioningly,
and then regurgitate it for the echo chamber.

Please educate yourself. These are NOT "anarchists" in any true sense of the
word. I bet none of them have ever heard of Emma Goldman or Dorothy Day,
for example; or know who John Zerzan is.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
30. Apparently they're not very good skinheads either
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 05:22 PM
Aug 2012

As one of their members is obviously not of Aryan stock. The use of the word "skinhead" would be laughable were it not for people who swallow such rubbish unquestioningly, and then regurgitate it for the echo chamber. Please educate yourself. These are NOT "skinheads" in any true sense of the word.

I bet none of them have ever heard of Emma Goldman or Dorothy Day, for example; or know who John Zerzan is.


How about Guy Fawkes?
 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
31. *Sigh*
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 05:46 PM
Aug 2012

The M$M's desperate attempt to fob off the blame onto "Anarchists" is just so wrong, and
so obviously inaccurate.

Real Anarchists draw the line at property destruction, i.e. that's as "violent" as they get. Break into
a factory farm and release animals, chain themselves together to block a bank entrance, or maybe
break window out of a Starbucks. Plus there's an affinity with far left groups, though it sometimes
melts down into a love/hate relationship, as when Chis Hedges recently called out the "Black Bloc"
as being a "cancer" on Occupy, because of their disruptive window breaking ways, putting Occupy
in a bad light with the public.

This use of the A-word by M$M in connection with an armed militia group embedded within the US
military is a despicable distortion of reality, designed to discredit and vilify everyone to the left of
Joe Lieberman. Shame on them, and on anyone who buys into this ridiculous assertion.

As for Guy Fawkes, the dead guy. Perhaps a useful red herring or distraction, but no much more
than that.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
33. I would not dispute the media has issues
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 05:57 PM
Aug 2012

However, if person X is arrested and person X asserts they are an anarchist that doesn't really put the blame on the media. If I were an editor I would probably insist on the term "self-described" be inserted prior to "anarchist."

This use of the A-word by M$M in connection with an armed militia group embedded within the US
military is a despicable distortion of reality, designed to discredit and vilify everyone to the left of
Joe Lieberman. Shame on them, and on anyone who buys into this ridiculous assertion.


One article I read said they had a manuscript/manual. I'm interested to see what is in that.

As for Guy Fawkes, the dead guy.


Bin Laden is dead too but he's still a sectarian terrorist and it would be in poor taste to idolize him.
 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
35. Not exactly the kind of profile that resembles any "anarchist" I've ever heard of.
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:54 PM
Aug 2012

"Aguigui was home-schooled in Cashmere, joining the Army after graduation."

~snip~

"According to The Wenatchee World, Isaac Aguigui represented Washington state in the American Legion Boys Nation held in July 2008 in Washington, D.C.

The Boys Nation is a weeklong citizenship and government program in the nation's capital that is designed to instill in each participant a deep loyalty to America while providing practical insight into the operation of the federal government, officials say.

He also reportedly served as a page during the 2008 Republican National Convention.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2019010940_soldierplot29m.html?prmid=4939

PCIntern

(25,251 posts)
2. Recall the "poutrage" of our so-called Congress when this was
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:12 AM
Aug 2012

brought to their attention years ago?

"No such thing."

Think back to B-Movies like "Dead Bang" or "Stone Cold"...although crappy films, the makers of them were quite prescient. Or even Tom Clancy's book "Executive Orders" where the RWers are driving a truck laden with explosives to D.C. AFTER the entire Congress and Executive Branch and Supreme Court is destroyed...

I can't even begin to imagine what else is going on here...

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
4. PCIntern
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 08:20 AM
Aug 2012

PCIntern

I don't know about you, but I liked Executive Order - and most of the other books that Tom Clancy wrote - well until others got into the game.. It at least a possibility that extreme conservatives - right wingers could be able to drive a truck loaded with explosives, and I am not forgotten, the whole affair with more or less decapitating of the whole Senate, Congress, Executive Branch and the Supreme court happened after they was underway - and it was in fact under an attack from EBOLA, a nasty virus who kill 70-100 percent of them who got it, was unleashed on USA.

And combined with the fact, that another right winger here in Norway, Anders Breivik blow up most of our government building in a 3.5 tonnes truck, and then continued to kill 77 young at the labor party youth camp The bomb was kind of a "failed" bomb, as most of the power was directed true a maze of tunnels who go under the roads from the different government offices it more or less destroyed the main offices, and most of the other buildings in the area, Expert on explosives have pointed out that 50 percent of the bomb was lost, to underground structure - and it was the rest, 500kg of explosive power that blow up the government offices.. If everything had blowed up, I doubt most of the offices had ben salvagle... - and blow up windows 3-4 km away from the blast zone.. So it is not Impossible to make a bomb like that - loaded with explosives, to blow up government offices if anyone was willing to take the risk..

And one thing is for sure - the RW in any party is able, and willing to go to rather extreme ways, if they believe them to be in danger in any way.. The only reason they have not trying to bomb government offices in the DC area for years - is mostly because they doesn't feel they are ready yet - and 3 decades worth of hate radio have not doing its job - yet..

Diclotican

PCIntern

(25,251 posts)
16. Yeah, that's what I wrote...
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 11:35 AM
Aug 2012

No...

the point is that everyone acts as though there's no thought of this occurring a priori, and then, you have 9/11, which was foretold in both the X-Files spinoff and in the Clancy book well beforehand.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
14. 'Stone Cold,' starring Brian Bosworth, was a prescient film?
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:45 AM
Aug 2012


No offense, but that's one of the funniest things I've ever read here.

PCIntern

(25,251 posts)
17. You don't think that this recent uncovering of this plot
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 11:37 AM
Aug 2012

by these miscreants isn't a variation of what came before?

Look, I'm glad you're laughing, but my POINT WAS that there is plenty of info in re: the RW terrorist movement in this regard. The congress claimed that the movement didn't exist.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
27. are you saying that bad people don't try to copy movie plots from bad films?
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 02:56 PM
Aug 2012

is it so improbable? really?

doesn't seem like you are taking this seriously.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
3. I'm not an expert but wouldn't it have been more effective
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:29 AM
Aug 2012

if these Christian terrorists had bought land in Washington DC and Not Washington State? The 2 places are a long way off. Shouldn't they have been a little closer to their attack location? The Georgia location makes some sense but Washington state? I guess we are lucky most Christian terrorist purposely dumb down their own children. Maybe this group missed the one geography lesson during their bible study class?

Here's to hoping these terrorist remain stupid because all the US state and federal security/police agencies certainly seem to be ignoring them.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
5. Washington State = privacy to "train"
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 08:44 AM
Aug 2012

Why would a crazed militia group want to have its HQ where the highest concentration of military/gov't surveillance is ? They can do their planning etc pretty much un-noticed in WA State and then hop a plane or drive east when they're ready to wreak havoc. Or maybe they were waiting for an opportunity in that part of the country.

Think harder, grasshopper.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
36. Attacking from a nearby location is much easier
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 01:14 PM
Aug 2012

And would planes and vehicles be moving right after a coupe or an attack? I suspect there would be some serious searching for suspects or fighting and havoc going on that will pretty much stop traffic of any kind. But maybe they think once they attack the White House, Americans will rise up and support them. They probably think they will be moving into the White House much like Pinochet moved in after that coupe, but then he had the military on his side. They are pretty crazy, so they might just believe they would actually win.

I still think they are just stupid and want a little hidey hole so they can pretend.



Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
20. For starters rural Washington state is pretty isolated
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 01:05 PM
Aug 2012

2. It's also a place where they can mingle with a lot of like-minded people to recruit
3. They'd stick out like sore thumbs in the greater D.C. area, and probably chafe at the prospect of living so close to "other" kinds of people

Dustlawyer

(10,489 posts)
6. Our corporate media do not want to hurt the "brand." Years from now we will probably find
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 08:46 AM
Aug 2012

out about many more of these that the Secret Service caught before any killings.

lpbk2713

(42,674 posts)
12. These are the kind of assclowns that want to keep Limbaugh on AFRS.
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 09:37 AM
Aug 2012



I'm glad this bunch was caught but I'm sure there are many more in other military
installations with the same mindset who idolize the likes of OxyRush, Hannity and
BecKKK. And they are using DoD material and resources against the rest of us.


indepat

(20,899 posts)
18. Since extremist white Christian soldiers act exactly in the manner the right wing
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 12:38 PM
Aug 2012

expects, look for each of them to continue flying under the radar until committing some dastardly act.

superpatriotman

(6,224 posts)
24. This is paranoia and ego run amok
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 01:50 PM
Aug 2012

A group of assholes. Nothing more. Including the father...

Ed Aguigui told the law center that he had "no clue" as to the location of the land in Washington state that reportedly was purchased by his son and members of his militia group. "I served my country for 20 years and I honor that, take pride in that."


Gotta start tagging these assholes.

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