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Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:20 PM

Going Vegan Can Save the Planet, What's Stopping You?

What Would Prevent You From Going Vegan If It both Saved the World & Your Body?

Want to save the world, save some money, and live a few years longer than you might otherwise? You can do all three at once by simply going vegan. The single most powerful thing that any American can do to fight global climate change is to stop eating meat and dairy products. Itís also the single most effective way to prevent a heart attack or a stroke, as weíve learned from people like Bill Clinton who have become vegans after having a heart attack.

There are vegan bodybuilders, vegan politicians like Cory Booker, and everyday vegans all across the country who are doing their part to help save this world. Eating meat and dairy not only pollutes the atmosphere and environment, but it also pollutes your body and your mind. Cardiovascular disease is one of the leading causes of age-related dementia, and meat and dairy products speed up the deterioration of your veins and arteries.

In every regard, one of the best things you can do for yourself and your life is to become vegan.

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Reply Going Vegan Can Save the Planet, What's Stopping You? (Original post)
thomhartmann Jun 19 OP
meow2u3 Jun 19 #1
Codeine Jun 19 #15
dameatball Jun 19 #32
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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:29 PM

1. I hate fruits and veggies

Enuf said. They're too slimy for my taste.

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Response to meow2u3 (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:04 PM

15. Slimy?

Carrots are slimy? Broccoli? Peas?

Iíll grant you okra is slimy (and I straight up refuse to eat that shit) but I genuinely canít think of another slimy veg.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:14 PM

32. I like okra and tomatoes and gumbos, but not crazy about plain okra.

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Response to dameatball (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:14 PM

52. unless it's fried

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Response to PupCamo (Reply #52)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:27 PM

59. Yes, forgot about that. Good one...:)

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Response to Codeine (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:40 AM

181. I hate broccoli and am not allowed peas

I was force fed veggies like broccoli and other veggies when I was a kid--and I still gag on them to this day, but not by my parents. I was in a residence for 3.5 years and that's when I not only was forced to eat them and couldn't leave the table until I did, but also was made fun of by the other kids--and the care workers who seemed to derive some sick kicks out of abusing kids who don't conform to their values. It's got to be some childhood abuse centered on food.

Now, I'm on this semi-keto diet that won't allow me to eat peas, corn, and potatoes, to name a few, because they're starchy, raise my blood sugar, and slow my metabolism. I have to be careful with carrots, which I put into a salad.

Nor do I believe in veganism, especially after I've seen some vegans I knew suffer health problems. I've eaten meat my whole life and am too old to change my diet radically. Plus, I don't think there's enough evidence to support the idea that meat leads to industrial-scale heat pollution.

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Response to meow2u3 (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:56 PM

25. Good. More fruit for me! (n/t)

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:33 PM

2. Happily vegan for 8 years. I feel like a won the trifecta.

Good for the planet, good for the animals and good for my health!

And good on YOU for spreading the truth!

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Response to Doremus (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 03:45 AM

159. Same here.

Well, 98% or so.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:37 PM

3. I can see cutting back on meats

But full vegan would not be something I would prefer.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:40 PM

4. I just try to minimize my meat consumption

Going fully vegan would be way too hard because I actually like a lot of foods with meat. Sometimes you just gotta have a darn hamburger you know. Generally I limit myself to having meat in one meal per day if possible.

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Response to Calculating (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:05 PM

17. "Sometimes you just gotta have a darn hamburger you know"

Well, no. I havenít had one since 1989 and Iím fine.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:01 PM

73. Well whoop dee friggen doo doo.

n/t

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Response to Calculating (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:41 PM

108. If seafood is allowed I could do it. I'm like a freakin' walrus and probably should

worry about mercury poisoning more than anything else. I could easily make it all summer on just the fish I catch if I had to.

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Response to Calculating (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 02:15 PM

219. Have you tried the Beyond Burger

Grill it, then slap some vegan bacon and blue (spelling) cheese on that sucker--

Oh holy tamales--- it's burger/ fast food heaven-

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Response to essme (Reply #219)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:09 PM

259. Bad choice - pea protein is one of the main ingredients and pea protein is loaded with glyphosate

Pea protein could prove to have its own concerns, however. The Detox Project, a research organization that tests foods for the pesticide glyphosate, has been looking at it over the past year, and the results, like those for other products tested for the popular pesticide, arenít pretty.

ďWe can hardly find a clean pea protein source anywhere,Ē says Henry Rowlands, the projectís director. In fact, products labeled as organic had much higher levels of the pesticide than conventional versions, he says. The group tested eight top-selling protein powders on Amazon, using a laboratory that's approved by the California Department of Food and Agriculture.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-14/the-mighty-pea-is-everybody-s-new-favorite-plant-based-protein

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #259)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:42 PM

260. Oh noes!

Beyond Burgers and the Impossible burger are two different companies.

The pesticides in various plant proteins are being addressed.

I have had exactly one Impossible Burger. It was delicious.

At 55, pretty sure the air pollution, alcohol, cigarettes and all the other horrid things I have ingested, breathed in, walked in, etc. are gong to take me out before a few veggie burgers.

However, at the end of my life, at least I won't have the guilt of knowing that I turned a blind eye to the suffering of other sentient beings.

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Response to essme (Reply #260)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 10:07 PM

266. Who is addressing the pesticides? Not the US government?? EPA loves glyphosate

I don't know the ingredients in the Impossible Burger but if they are anything like Beyond Burger - GROSS - Cellulose from bamboo and methycellulose, pesticided pea protein.........



Beyond Burger ingredients: water, pea protein isolate, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, contains 2% or less of the following: cellulose from bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, natural flavor, maltodextrin, yeast extract, salt, sunflower oil, vegetable glycerin, dried yeast, gum Arabic, citrus extract (to protect quality), ascorbic acid (to maintain color), beet juice extract (for color), acetic acid, succinic acid, modified food starch, annatto (for color).
https://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/13881-beyond-burger-needs-multiple-ingredients-to-mimic-meat

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:42 PM

5. Just food for thought

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/going-vegan-isnt-actually-th/

Excerpt:
If youíve decided to go vegan because you think itís better for the planet, that might be trueóbut only to an extent.

A group of researchers has published a study in the journal Elementa in which they describe various biophysical simulation models that compare 10 eating patterns: the vegan diet, two vegetarian diets (one that includes dairy, the other dairy and eggs), four omnivorous diets (with varying degrees of vegetarian influence), one low in fats and sugars, and one similar to modern American dietary patterns.

What they found was that the carrying capacityóthe size of the population that can be supported indefinitely by the resources of an ecosystemóof the vegan diet is actually less substantial than two of the vegetarian diets and two out of the four omnivorous diets they studied.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:58 PM

10. For me it's much more about avoiding horrible cruelty than saving the planet.

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Response to mucifer (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:08 PM

18. I rarely eat meat, but I have to wonder.

What would happen to the cows and chickens if everyone suddenly became vegan?

Would they just all be euthanized?

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:17 PM

34. A lot of breeds would disappear

We first domesticated animals about the same time we domesticated plants.

Since then we've been evolving together.



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Response to Tipperary (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:51 PM

140. You would have them running loose, up and down every street in the U. S., like in big parts of

India.

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:04 AM

145. Do you understand what manner of "life" they lead? Is that what any feeling being would wish

for themselves or another?

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Response to Bettie (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:29 PM

38. Well, well, well.

So the vegans are wrong. It won't make it a better planet to go vegan.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #38)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:50 PM

70. Not if glyphosate is being sprayed on all our food - and now on some foods right before harvest

Grains, peas, almonds, sugar, soy, oatmeal - soaked with glyphosate. Give me a healthy grass fed burger over chemical foods.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:01 PM

49. My father and I have been making parts of that argument for years.

Significant portions of the land used to graze cattle cannot be used to grow food suitable to be consumed directly by humans.

The "save the world" model takes into account only production on land that can be used for either livestock or human consumption, and argues (in essence) that it is more efficient to feed humans directly. It doesn't take into account the not insignificant quantity of farmland that is just ot suitable for growing food directly for humans.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #49)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:44 PM

67. Agreed - How about only buying grass fed beef - healthier and no glyphosate

I live out in NM and lots of my neighbors are ranchers. Cattle grazing is about all some of this land is good for. Why not only buy healthy beef from animals who had a good life, rather than that toxic meat Walmart and other stores carry.

I have chickens which do not harm the planet in any way and everyone might try eating only chickens that are treated humanely and allowed to forage. I would rather have a good organic chicken once a week, raised without Roundup laced food than cheaper toxic chicken - chickens raised in deplorable conditions where they cannot even turn around. If we want these changes, we should only buy meat that is produced compassionately.

As far as vegetables go - what is good about the US growing vegetables and spraying them with so much Roundup that Roundup is now in our air, water and soil. I would be afraid to eat just vegetables because then I would up my chances of eating too much glyphosate even though I eat organically. Also, only buying organic vegetables would be way better for the planet.

I think we can eat both if we demand better quality food.

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #67)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:29 PM

82. the methane from livestock has the biggest detrimental impact on the planet, so

Buying healthy animals doesnít fix the methane problem, doesnít fix the health issues for you (Even healthy free range cows cause you inflammation and associated diseases) and sure doesnít help the poor cows 😉

It is big change to make, but if want to make the biggest contribution to saving the planet (if it isnít already too late) vegan is the way to go.

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Response to MLAA (Reply #82)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:08 PM

115. There were massive herds of buffalo

roaming the prairies of North America long before even the Native Americans got to it. Maybe they farted less?

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #115)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:44 AM

264. 20 to 30 million buffalo v. almost 90 million cows.

Oh and the 20 to 30 million Buffalo were all of North America while the 100 million cows are just those in the USA.

Yeah they farted less... Ha ha. Clever.

We are #4 in the world:

https://www.drovers.com/article/world-cattle-inventory-ranking-countries-fao

This is a worldwide issue.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:43 PM

6. Don't like no carrots, can't stand no peas


But a pack of Dong Dongs bring me down to my knees
Bring a loada'
RC Cola
TV Dinner
A plate of Twinkies
It takes a pink burrito
For to keep me clean
(For to keep me clean)
TV dinner is the meal that I'm lovin'
Take off the foil, 30 minutes in the oven

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:50 PM

7. Humans evolved to be omnivores

 

Our bodies evolved to eat meat. Meat is healthy for you. In fact, I lost 50 pounds by going keto last year. I have more energy than I ever had before and blood work is good. Eliminate the sugars and processed crap, not meat. One of the biggest cases of "fake news" was the food pyramid the government used to put all over schools.

How do you know someone is vegan? Do not worry, they will tell you.

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:20 PM

35. Totally agree. Keto is the way to go!

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:11 PM

76. Started Keto last week

due to GBM.

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Response to ChazII (Reply #76)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:33 PM

84. Warm thoughts headed your way

Good luck in your fight...

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Response to ChazII (Reply #76)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 01:48 AM

242. What is GBM?

Sorry, just curious. Was on Keto for about 6 weeks, and then after the complete stress of my move and the boredom of the Keto diet, I kind of went off it since we have had all this food catered in at work on and off for the past month. So I was like, no way am I passing up all of this great, free food and besides I was too stressed out to deal w/ making lunches every day.

I plan to go back on a modified version again since it really helped with my joint pain, backaches, headaches, etc. and I felt so much more energetic, but I just need to get more creative since I really got bored w/ salads and things wrapped in lettuce.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #242)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:27 PM

248. It is a brain tumor.

The type that Sen. Kennedy and Sen. McCain had. I am not doing the strict diet just yet. We have recently started using the almond flour for pancakes.

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Response to ChazII (Reply #248)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:38 AM

253. Oh, I am so sorry. How are you feeling?

I hope you are getting the best medical care and have plenty of support. I wish you all the best. Let us know how you are doing.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #253)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 08:17 PM

255. Hugs are appreciated and welcome.

We have the best of the best at Barrows Neurological Institute here in Phoenix. His surgeon was Dr. Nadir Sanai who heads up the neuro-oncology department. My son is on Mercy Care which is one of the programs under Arizona's form of Medicare/Medicade (sp).

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Response to ChazII (Reply #255)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 01:39 AM

263. So it is your son and not you? That must be so hard for you and your family. Either way, it is

such a difficult, traumatic thing to go through. I am glad you are getting the best of medical care and that you have good insurance coverage. That is one less thing to stress about. I hope the prognosis is good. Please let us know how your son is coming along. We will all be pulling for you and your family!

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #263)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 08:51 PM

265. He is given 15 months to live

but like many of those who have this type of tumor we are remaining positive. He will beat that and live for many more years. He may not live until he is an old man but he will not be dead in 15 months. This Tuesday several friends have planned a surprise support party. It is acts of love, compassion, friendship that are getting us through beginning of this journey. Thank you, for the love and caring that you are showing it helps my heart stay light.

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Response to ChazII (Reply #265)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:31 PM

274. Oh Chaz, I am so sorry to hear that! I am sure he will beat this.

Please reach out to the DU Community and let them know what is going on with your son. People here care and we can help you as you go through this. I know this must be a very difficult time for you and your family, but you can consider us a support group. If you haven't already, please reach out and let the entire DU community know what is going on. This is too much for you and your family to bear on your own and you need all the support you can get.

Please feel free to IM me anytime if you need to talk, but I would love it if you would allow us all to help you get through this!

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #274)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 11:01 AM

286. Last Monday of radiation

Thank you smirky money, I will do that.

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:33 PM

41. Yes indeed.

Cut sugars, starches like bread, rice, potatoes and pasta (which are all really just sugars), and watch your numbers and energy levels improve. The planet has far bigger problems than the composition of the human diet.

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Response to The_jackalope (Reply #41)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:19 AM

201. Yup, and I've found eliminating sugars dramatically improved mental clarity

My attention span and memory specifically. Enough that the change was apparent to friends and coworkers and they commented on it without any prompting from me.

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:23 PM

99. Keto makes so much sense when you think about it

From an evolutionary biology perspective

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:10 PM

119. or, how about just eating everything in moderation

instead of going on fad diets

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:43 AM

246. I started Keto one month ago under a doctor's care.

The changes in my body, weight, and how I feel have been, well, life changing.

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:00 AM

252. You would be a good spokesperson for the beef industry.

For me everyone has to decide what they want to put in their bodies.

I disagree that we evolved to eat meat. But that is my thinking.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:56 PM

8. Well, vitamin B12 to start.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:59 PM

11. vegans take vitamin B12 it's no big deal.

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Response to mucifer (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:02 PM

13. I've been a vegan for thirty years.

I died two decades ago from B-12 deficiency. It was tragic.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:17 PM

21. I died from lack of protein.

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Response to mucifer (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:34 PM

63. I almost died from eating meat

but I got better.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:16 AM

281. I'm so sorry for your loss.

Please give my condolences to you.

Iíve been veg or vegan for more than 50 years. Obviously I am also dead.

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Response to mucifer (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:48 PM

69. Vegans also need to take taurine

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #69)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:20 PM

78. No they don't.

Your body produces taurine from cysteine. Taurine is not an essential nutrient for humans.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #78)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 10:39 AM

196. So why have they been adding it to baby formula for yrs?

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #196)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:13 AM

198. Because mothers make extra taurine

when theyíre breastfeeding. Babies donít synthesize things at peak efficiency when theyíre new. Taurine, synthesized by the mother, is the most abundant amino acid in breastmilk. Momís milk, and thus infant formula, has a ton of extra nutrients. Thatís why mothers crave nutrient-dense foods and often supplement.

You arenít actually comparing infant nutritional needs to those of non-infants, are you? Because that would be silly.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #78)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:06 PM

229. Other views on taurine - two sides to everything - nothing is a definite

Just another take. I got into this because my friend is a vegetarian and she was getting the shakes. When she supplemented with taurine the shakes went away. Got me into looking into taurine. This is from "the Beef" promoting researchers at Texas A & M (I actually supplement with taurine besides eating grass fed beef because many studies show taurine is good for lowering blood pressure.

Compared with other animal species (cattle, chickens, pigs, and sheep, for example), humans have a low ability to synthesize taurine at any stage during development. That means children and adults fed taurine-free diets are deficient in taurine and could greatly benefit from supplementation with this nutrient. Additional research has shown that infants cannot produce a sufficient amount of taurine to meet physiological needs and must depend on a dietary source of taurine for optimal health, growth and development.



Under stress or diseased conditions (heat stress, infection, obesity, diabetes, cancer and others), taurine synthesis in the body may be impaired due to the suboptimal function of liver and the reduced availability of the amino acid precursors. Notably, vegans generally have lower concentrations of taurine in plasma and red blood cells than their non-vegan counterparts. Taken together, these results suggest inadequate production of taurine by humans. Dietary requirements of taurine have not yet been established for adults.

Meat is a major dietary source of taurine for humans. A 3-oz. beef steak would provide 55 mg taurine, which would meet about 70% of daily taurine requirement by healthy adults. Because plants contain no taurine, abundant amounts of taurine from all kinds of meats demonstrate another important contribution that animal foods make to improving human health and well-being. It also further underscores the significance and importance of animal agriculture worldwide.

https://www.beefmagazine.com/beef-quality/beef-has-great-story-amino-acid-taurine
By Guoyao Wu and H. Russell Cross,Texas A&M University | Dec 13, 2012

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #69)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:31 PM

83. I have no idea what taurine is.

Iíve been vegan five years and my friends (10 or so of us) have all been vegan 10 to 20 years, and never heard of taurine and we are all super healthy.

The only thing we take is vitamin B.

Do you take taurine?

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Response to MLAA (Reply #83)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:35 PM

87. You don't need to know what it is.

Your body makes it anyway, no need to supplement.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #87)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:41 PM

89. Yep, couldn't imagine I needed it.

😉

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Response to Codeine (Reply #87)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:05 PM

114. Lots of studies say the opposite - we could benefit from taurine supplimentation

(taurine is mostly obtained from fish and meat and smaller amts from dairy - have you noticed all cat and dog food is supplemented with taurine?)

Abstract
In humans, taurine (2-aminoethanesulfonic acid) is mainly obtained from diet. Despite the fact that the health effects of taurine are largely unknown, taurine has become a popular supplement and ingredient in energy drinks in recent years. Evidence from mechanistic and animal studies has shown that the main biological actions of taurine include its ability to conjugate bile acids, regulate blood pressure (BP), and act as a potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory agent. These actions suggest that high levels of taurine may be protective against coronary heart disease (CHD). However, data from epidemiologic and intervention studies in humans are limited. We review what is known about taurineís metabolism, its transportation in the body, its food sources, and evidence of its effect on cardiovascular health from in vitro, animal, and epidemiologic studies. We also discuss shortcomings of the human studies that need to be addressed in the future. The identification of taurine as a preventive factor for CHD may be of great public health importance.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2813349/

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #114)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:10 PM

118. Cat food has added taurine

because cats do not have the same ability to synthesize taurine from cysteine as humans. As obligate carnivores they would not require that ability.

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #69)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:35 PM

86. If they are cats, yes

Humans can synthesize their own. Cats, who ate obligate carnivores, have to get it from their diets.

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #69)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:55 AM

155. It's cats that require taurine in their diets.

Vegan human beings do not.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:51 PM

45. There are Vegan Vitamin B12 supplements.

I have some in my frig now and I eat meat.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:57 PM

9. I've lowered my

total cholesterol to 114
triglycerides 76
"good" cholesterol 62
"bad" cholesterol 56

All this by being vegan.


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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:01 PM

12. Give it up.

DU members tend to be environmentalists until it comes to ďmuh bacon.Ē

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Response to Codeine (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:57 PM

110. Nailed it.

It's also when some of them miraculously turn into nutritionists and dietitians.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #110)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 03:44 AM

158. Im a vegan now largely because of your posts in the past

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #158)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 12:41 AM

240. I

don't think I've ever gotten a higher compliment. Thank you.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:23 AM

205. Ah, bacon

The true test of faith.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #12)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:27 PM

236. Boo. Hoo.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:03 PM

14. Bacon. nt

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:04 PM

16. I like meat

I won't criticize anyone who chooses veganism but it's not for me

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:11 PM

19. Vegetarian for years

Some days I do a Vegan diet, but haven't been able to stick to it full time so far.

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Response to LyndaG (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:35 PM

64. Same. I'm pretty much vegetarian (I cheat a few times a year)

but veganism was too restrictive for me (cheese/butter), so instead of doing meatless Mondays, I do vegan Mondays.

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Response to LyndaG (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:18 AM

282. Cheese

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:16 PM

20. I like meat. I'm ok with people being vegan but I really don't

care to be proselytized by them.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:19 PM

22. I have no problem with people being vegan either

 

But I do have a problem with people forcing it on their kids. It mirrors religion in a lot of ways.

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:15 PM

122. Dietary fetishes

are the new religion. They have lists of "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots". They involve feeling "holy" for living within the confines of the diet, and especially for proselytizing it, especially in the face of ridicule. And they have guilt for lack of adherence to the rules.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:34 PM

85. I wouldn't care what you chose to eat, except for the methane impact on the planet and the animal

cruelty.

If you have kids-grandkids (I donít) that is a very good reason to research the impact of not going vegan on the planet and then make your decision. 🙂

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Response to MLAA (Reply #85)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:20 PM

230. What about the impact on our bodies, air, soil and water of the tons of pesticides used on US food?

Our food is loaded with glyphosate and now we have all these lawsuits where people are being awarded billions because of glyphosate.

It's not enough for the growers to spray glyphosate on the soil - now they are spraying in on much of our food right before harvest.

Glyphosate & pesticides feed the red tides - red tides then kill the fish......and so it goes.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:24 PM

23. It will not "save the world" or your body.

Vegans die too. Zero evidence they live longer. Countries in Asia and Africa who have had mainly vegetarian diets because of income turn to more meat based diets as their income rises and their middle class grows.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:15 PM

95. and then they get heart disease and diabetes when they rarely had it before

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Response to mucifer (Reply #95)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:32 PM

104. What do vegans die of?

How long do they live and what kills them?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #104)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:09 PM

117. Sanctimony.

Oh, wait, that's how their friendships with omnivores die.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #117)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:12 PM

121. My wife and kids are omnivores

and we seem to get along swimmingly. But then, they arenít snide pricks.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #121)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:16 PM

123. Now, didn't that make you feel better?

Me, I like to kill a fly when I need to feel superior.

Oh, and your family is distinct from your friends. Your family is stuck with you.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #104)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:28 PM

130. Honestly? Mostly the same shit that gets everyone.

Veg diets are probably somewhat better on the heart disease front, but cancer is still cancer and broccoli doesnít cure that shit.

There are plenty of fat vegans, and theyíll probably die of the same crap that kills fat omnivores. Lots of vegan smokers will develop lung cancer. A heavy drinking vegan will damage their liver as fast as an omnivore who likes too much tipple. Alzheimerís, strokes, respiratory diseases, diabetes ó all that stuff is waiting for us vegan or otherwise.

Iíve been a vegan since I was 19, and Iíll be one until I die, be that from prostate cancer or having my throat ripped out by a pit bull. Pretending that my diet is a magical panacea against all disease is idiotic; I eat this way because I like animals and I prefer not to kill them when I can help it.

Other people, like my family, will make their own decisions based on what they value and prioritize and thatís all good. Veganism is for me, and thatís as far as my authority extends.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #130)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:50 AM

164. Some people

Look for arguments when your doing something they
Think you shouldnt even mention because it annoys them.
Like not eating meat...
Practicing religion.. if you do.
Just annoys the hell out of them.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #164)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:20 AM

178. I have found that applies to vegans 100% as far as those I have met.

They always want to tell you they are a vegan as if I care.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #178)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:39 AM

179. You do recognize the logical flaw in that statement, yes?

You could know many vegans who simply havenít mentioned it at all, and thus youíve no idea. Maybe one in ten of my coworkers know Iím vegan, and that only comes out because we went to lunch and they asked why I was ordering a veggie burger or a salad.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #178)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:34 PM

215. Im not a vegan.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:47 PM

24. Nope, not a chance. I've a few relations (through marriage) who are vegan, and they're miserable

Cultists. They're like converts to a different religion, and become fervent to the point of being like Trumpers.

I had a Ribeye Steak Sandwich for dinner, with pepper sauce and fries....mmmm

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:51 AM

154. Why did the Vegan cross the road?

There were people on the other side of the street he hadn't told.

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Response to MurrayDelph (Reply #154)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 02:24 AM

157. Yes, in my experience, that's so true to life.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 03:50 AM

160. I'm not like that at all

I didn't expect vegan bashing when I opened this thread.

I feed my cat meat so I couldn't care less what you eat.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #160)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 07:15 AM

174. Without doubt you would one of the rare (no pun intended) ones ! Good for you.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 06:56 PM

26. They're coming up with new meat substitutes all the time.

When they can simulate meat and seafood well enough, i'll go vegan.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:19 PM

125. Have you tried

Beyond beef hamburger?
Gardein Chickkín Scallopini or Holiday Roast?
Field Roast Celebration Roast?
I could go on... delicious foods that my meat loving family dive into.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #125)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:32 PM

132. My daughter is a lover of beef

but she will not let me make a Beyond burger without throwing one in the pan for her. They might be her favorite food at the moment.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #132)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:44 AM

187. Ha, nice! That also explains why the IPO went through the roof.

Itís at $173/share today, crazy.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #132)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 10:55 PM

267. Beyond Burger ingredient - 2% or less cellulose from bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, etc.

Is wood good for us to eat? Let's see, --- a hard decision !! - meat?? or wood???


Beyond Burger ingredients: water, pea protein isolate, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, contains 2% or less of the following: cellulose from bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, natural flavor, maltodextrin, yeast extract, salt, sunflower oil, vegetable glycerin, dried yeast, gum Arabic, citrus extract (to protect quality), ascorbic acid (to maintain color), beet juice extract (for color), acetic acid, succinic acid, modified food starch, annatto (for color).

https://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/13881-beyond-burger-needs-multiple-ingredients-to-mimic-me
at

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #267)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:19 PM

270. Bamboo isn't wood, for fuck's sake.

Bamboo is grass and we eat bamboo all the time. You canít pretend youíve never had bamboo shoots. Bamboo in various preparations is eaten throughout Asia, and by extension worldwide in Asian cuisines.

Methyl cellulose is a thickener made from plants. Itís used in about 80 bazillion food applications. Itís a very common ingredient in many prepared foods.

Potato starch is starch, from potatoes. Potato. Starch. Why you added that to your list of offensive ingredients baffles me.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #270)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:40 PM

290. methyl cullulose is made from WOOD PULP and plants-FDA says it safe, but I just don't want to eat it

It is very common but we can't digest it. As far as offensive ingredients go - I'm basically saying I prefer foods without a long list of ingredients. I can buy Haagen Dazs Strawberry ice cream with 4 ingredients (milk, sugar, eggs, strawberries or I could (but never would) buy other brands like Blue Bunny Strawberry Shortcake with cellulose. Why do I need wood pulp in my ice cream?

Blue Bunny Strawberry Shortcake
Reduced Fat Ice Cream (Milk, Corn Syrup, Sugar, Skim Milk, Buttermilk, Cream, Whey, Contains 2% or less of Maltodextrin, Mono & Diglycerides, Carob Bean Gum, Vanilla Extract, Artificial Flavor, Cellulose Gum, Carrageenan, Vitamin A Palmitate). Flavored Center (Water, Sugar, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Whey, Strawberries, Corn Syrup, Cream, Contains 2% or less of Natural Flavor, Guar Gum, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Carob Bean Gum, Dextrose, Red 40, Malic Acid, Polysorbate 80). Coating {Cake Crunch (Bleached Wheat Flour, Sugar, Palm Oil, Contains 2% or less of: Salt, Baking Soda, Soy Lecithin, Artificial Flavors, Soybean Oil, Red 40 Lake), Vegetable Oil (Soybean and Palm Oil)}.


Instead of seeing wood pulp listed in the nutrition information, you'll see cellulose. It's a common food additive, made of tiny pieces of wood pulp and plant fibers.


Is there wood pulp in your burger or taco?


When you fantasize about a classic burger, you think of a juicy patty, your favorite toppings, a warm bun and maybe a little bacon. Chances are you aren't dreaming about eating any wood pulp.

But if you eat at some of the nation's top fast-food restaurants, you could be eating wood pulp. Burger King, McDonald's, Taco Bell, Carl's Jr. and Wendy's all have items on their menus that contain this ingredient.
https://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-wood-pulp-cellulose-burger-taco-20140630-story.html

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #290)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:47 PM

294. It's not tiny pieces of wood pulp.

Methyl cellulose can be made from almost any plant, and itís the isolated cell walls. Youíre pretending that there is sawdust sprinkled in food and thatís absurd. Cellulose and methyl cellulose are in so much of what we eat that implying that itís a weird ingredient in Beyond Meat is quite intellectually dishonest.

Did you realize bamboo is food yet?

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Response to Codeine (Reply #270)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 06:25 PM

296. We eat a very tiny part of a bamboo plant

we can eat the shoots if they're harvested at a specific stage* (they get tough and coarse and inedible as they mature) but most of the plant is woody and inedible. Pandas manage to digest the leaves, but inefficiently. Yes, bamboo is a grass, but some grasses do have woody stems.

We can and do eat cellulose: it's a component of a lot of the vegetables we eat. We just don't have the gut biome to digest it well so a lot of it just passes through.

*I tried a few times to get something edible out of the bamboo that invades my yard, with no success. I can affirm that it does feel like wood, though.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #125)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:49 AM

183. I'll look for those.

I think that in the near future there will be lots more options. People need to stop eating it; it's very bad for the planet.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #26)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:23 PM

231. Many of the substitutes are made with GMO soy and peas - high in glyphosate

Those patties creep me out. If you want a substitute meat patty, I would say make it yourself from scratch so you know what's in it.

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #231)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:56 PM

235. That is a concern, but I think the problems with factory-farmed meat

are a lot worse. I've watched some of those videos on Amazon Prime and Netflix about factory meat production, and some of them made me want to throw up. They pen those animals up and feed them hormones and let them shit all over themselves. It ought to be illegal. Of course, meat would be a lot more expensive if the animals were raised humanely. The hog farms were really gross. Each farm had a pink-colored pond on it. The color came from all of the blood and fluids draining from those penned-up hogs. They found hundreds of those ponds while flying over NC. Some of that toxic brew was seeping into the groundwater system too. That shit has got to stop. We are asking for some nasty diseases by allowing that sort of filth to exist on farms where our food is being produced.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #235)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:00 PM

256. You can choose not to eat factory-farmed meat

Grass fed beef is very popular now. You can even buy it on Amazon shipped to you in dry ice. Luckily, I am surrounded my grazing cows so I can buy from local ranchers. Choose organic chicken - chickens who forage outside. Organic chicken is the most delicious chicken you will ever eat. No comparison to factory chicken. We can choose not to support the mistreatment of animals.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)


Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:02 PM

28. Two things

Last edited Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:24 PM - Edit history (1)

1. I try to avoid absolutist thinking. "Vegetables are good, vegetarianism is bad", to quote a book on the philosophy of cooking published decades ago (veganism was barely heard of in those days)

2. Cheese. I have no problems with not eating meat, since I like vegetables, but I find giving up cheese is a lot harder than giving up meat or fish.

FWIW, lunch today was vegan and dinner will be vegetarian.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #28)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:31 PM

238. Cheese.

A lot of people mention bacon when the topic of veganism comes up....but cheese. Omg, how I love cheese. I eat far more cheese than bacon.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:30 AM

244. 12 of the Best Vegan Cheese Brands That Rival the Real Thing

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:03 PM

29. I would love to go vegan.

I feel guilty as hell every time I eat meat. I tried a vegan hot dog once, and seriously almost threw up. I'm interested in trying the beyond meat stuff to see what that's like. I'll keep trying.

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:11 PM

50. Try looking up a highly rated vegan restaurant and try lunch or dinner there.

I am comfortable with my diet, which has some meat in it. I don't drink milk but occasionally use heavy cream and eat chocolate. I don't eat fish of any type due to quality issues with it in markets where I live.

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:18 PM

54. That's largely your problem. There's no reason you have to eat pretend meat

to be a vegetarian or vegan. Pretend anything is never as good as the real thing - so branch out and explore vegetarian food that is not pretending to be meat.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #54)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:28 PM

100. That's very true

A heck of a lot of Indian food is vegetarian. In fact, I used to go to an all vegetarian Indian restaurant, one where the chef liked to experiment. One time he had made snake gourd curry.

However, I will say that meatless crumbles are usually very good. I make chili with them. You could also use TVP or bulgur wheat.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #100)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:48 AM

150. I've used the crumbles -

they're OK, but if I was making vegetarian chil for myself I'd skip the crumbles.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #150)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:40 AM

180. The crumbles are nice in a lasagna.

For chili or something like that Iíll stick to lentils.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #100)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:38 PM

211. I once went to an Indian buffet with friends

The tikka chicken is the only thing I could stand. The rest of the stuff smells weird.

Normally, I'm fine with ethnic foods, but I just couldn't wrap myself around this.

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:38 PM

65. I second that recommendation

Last edited Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:32 PM - Edit history (1)

A good vegan restaurant - and there are some out there - is a revelation. I don't care for fake meats (although the things they do with seitan these days are amazing). There are a lot of common foods, though, that are already vegan: tostadas, guacamole with tortilla chips, pastas with tomato sauce or aglio e olio or pasta primaverde, hummus, tabouli, baba gahnoosh. If you want to ease into it and don't mind eating dairy, Indian restaurants almost always have an assortment of vegetable based dishes.

Don't look on going veg as giving something up: think of it as exploring a whole new dimension of cooking and eating!

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:22 PM

79. Most vegan hot dogs are gross.

Iíve adjusted to them and now I like them just fine, but theyíre a bit weird at first.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #79)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 02:00 AM

156. To be fair, most regular hot dogs are gross, too. nt.

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:23 PM

232. There is a happy medium...

Personally, I think you have to enjoy vegetables and / or be willing to try new things. I am a former meat lover and still a BBQ judge so I fully understand wanting that meaty flavor and texture. I googled vegan dinner ideas and started trying everything. We are vegetable eaters so it was not difficult to continue with that but prepare them in new ways. Then we added grains (quinoa/farro, etc.) as part of the main meal instead of sides. Everything is good but sometimes I still want a meaty texture. I have found several recipes that use meat alternatives in which you almost can't tell they aren't meat. However, I started to lose my taste for meat and I certainly have lost my ability to digest it as well as I used to. I just don't want to eat it. I make lots of stir fries, curries, pasta, stuffed peppers, stroganoff, lentil meatloaf, veggie wraps, enchiladas, and the list goes on and on and they are hearty dishes. i still want an egg here and there and that has some challenges. But I discovered I like vegan sour cream (homemade) better than the real stuff and vegan nacho cheese better than the real stuff, among many other substitutions.

I have the luxury of buying fresh not prepared/processed foods and cooking them myself. NOW it's difficult to eat out because I don't want the fat/salt/creams, etc.

I think people should do what they can. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

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Response to rownesheck (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:00 PM

268. I posted the ingredients in beyond meat in an above post

You will be eating some wood, but that's not a problem.

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #268)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:30 PM

273. You won't be eating any wood.

Youíll be eating bamboo, which is a grass, and is a popular and delicious food source. Whatís a stir fry without bamboo shoots?

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Response to Codeine (Reply #273)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:49 PM

292. No, you will be eating sawdust - it's safe to eat - but it's sawdust

31 Foods You're Eating That Contain Sawdust

If you're buying grated cheese, you're eating sawdustógasp! At least that's what countless news outlets have reported recently. All the hype and outrage comes on the heels of an FDA investigation, which found that certain brands of Parmesan contain up to 8.8% celluloseóaka wood pulpóeven if they're advertised as 100% cheese.


"It's a basic building block in plants' cell walls," says Sharon Palmer, RD, author of The Plant Powered Diet. "It comes from various sources, and wood pulp is just one of them." It's totally safe, too: "I'm not aware of any research that points to health risks related to cellulose in foods," says Palmer. (For the record, the FDA, the Center for Science in the Public Interest, and the Environmental Working Group all agree.)

https://www.prevention.com/food-nutrition/healthy-eating/a20457107/31-foods-that-contain-sawdust/

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #292)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:28 PM

293. Well, Idaho Forest Products say their trees are in our food

Waiter! Thereís a tree in my Twinkieģ!

There are tree-based chemicals in many of our food and beverage products! Some of these chemicals are used as flavorings, while others keep the ingredients in food from separating. Thereís even a tree-based chemical that makes bubble gum chewier!

Cellulose, the material that makes up the walls of tree cells, is used as a food thickener in such tasty treats as snack food, milk shakes, ice cream, cake frosting, and pancake syrup!

Cellulose also is an important ingredient in non-edible products such as eyeglass frames, steering wheels, hairbrush handles, cellophane, and photographic film!

https://idahoforests.org/content-item/stuff-we-get-from-trees-2/


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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:10 PM

30. I wish I liked more vegetables.

Love corn, tomatoes, beets, potatoes and beans but hate most of the rest of them, especially the ones in the cabbage family - Brussels sprouts, cauliflower and kale, yuck. And don't get me started on turnips, sweet potatoes, yams and parsnips, double yuck. On the other hand, eating meat makes me feel guilty. So if I can have cheese I'd probably be OK because I could melt it and put it on the cauliflower to make it edible.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:13 PM

31. I am content as an Omnivore

My nephew and his wife are hard core vegan. Most of their monthly budget goes to food. They are hyper picky about what they buy and from where they buy it and can't afford to spend the way they do. When my niece got married, I agreed to buy their vegan food so they would be able to eat at the reception and join in the celebration. It cost me around $80. And then they didn't attend the reception, preferring to avoid being around the Cuban feast the rest of us were enjoying. They also are refusing to attend any family holiday gatherings because they find our dietary habits to be too objectionable to be around. Charming.

Add to that, they never look particularly happy or healthy and I can see why. After spending just a few days on their 'diet', I was bored and hungry. I particularly remember how excited they were for me to try some vegan doughnuts. I did my best to act appreciative. It was difficult.

No - to each their own. I grow my own vegetables and supplement with a portion of chicken or fish and, very rarely, beef or pork. I could cut meat from my diet, and have, for periods of time. I'd never consider cutting dairy and eggs.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #31)


Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:17 PM

33. Cheese and bacon. n/t

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Response to TygrBright (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:20 PM

36. Cheese is art

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:24 PM

37. I'm vegan about 2/3 of the year, but go through phases

Sometimes I have serious cravings for meat that last a few weeks at a time. During that time I will consume chicken and occasionally beef once a day. Afterwards I have more energy and lose the taste for meat again for a few months. Odd, but it works for me. 🙃

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Response to alittlelark (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:19 PM

56. I have your type of issue with beef.

I can go months on end without eating an ounce of beef, but then I have this burger craving. Once I eat 4 burgers over a week or two, I feel great afterwards and am good for months without beef.

I would love to eat more fish but can't cook it or find it cooked in the way that I like. I remember stopping to get some cooked fish in a Frence part of Nova Scotia, Chittimack was the place, my spelling may be wrong. The woman seemed to have grilled the fish filet on a grill after breading it, never before in my life or since have I eaten a piece of fish that was that as delicious.

I truly believe my body tells me what it needs to stay at peak condition.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:30 PM

39. We evolved as omnivores.

We need meat.

The fact that vegans need to take supplements to make up for what's missing from their vegan diet ought to be a clue.

Oh, and we evolved eating cooked food, also. The people who claim raw is better or the only way to go are likewise wrong.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:32 PM

40. I agree

 

I think humans learning to cook food is probably the most important achievement in history.

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #40)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:38 PM

42. Read the book Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human

by Richard Wrangham. Essentially, cooking food made the nutrients within far more available to us, and freed us from needing to eat more or less all day long, which is what our primate relatives mostly do.

Excellent book. I highly recommend it.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:28 PM

60. It likely caused us to survive as a species. nt

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:40 PM

88. The only supplement vegans need....

Is vitamin B. And actually much of the population would likely benefit from vitamin b as well. I have 10 or so vegan friends (5 years to 20) and vitamin B is all we take. All super healthy.

Of course being healthy wonít matter much if we destroy our planet. Methane from livestock is a huge problem that we could fix.
🙂

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Response to MLAA (Reply #88)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:53 AM

208. Methane from livestock simply isn't the huge

problem it's made out to be.

The methane tied up in the permafrost is vastly greater a potential problem.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #208)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:35 PM

216. Our appetite for meat and its ecological repercussions are significant in the permafrost thawing.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #208)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 02:26 PM

221. Here is an article I posted a few days ago


Both livestock and permafrost methane are worrying threats. One I can do something about and one I canít 😉

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/13/climate-crisis-alaska-is-melting-and-its-likely-to-accelerate-global-heating

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #39)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:58 AM

191. Evolution isn't impacted by what happens to you in middle age and senior years.

Once you get your genes into the pool you could drop dead, provided that your offspring are able to survive to procreation, themselves. Thereís no evidence that vegans canít produce offspring, and in fact plenty of evidence that they are healthier into old age, so the ďevolutionĒ argument doesnít have a tail to stand on. If it did, meat eaters would be healthier, controlling for other variables. The contrary is true.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #191)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:52 AM

207. It was the meat eaters, and the eaters of cooked food

that were our ancestors. So yes, the evolution argument is a valid one.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:39 PM

43. I could easily cut way back on meat, but I could not be vegan.

I could not give up dairy, especially cheese. If I could afford it, my animal protein consumption would consist mostly of seafood.

I could easily be vegetarian 5 days a week and have meat/seafood only 2 days a week, but going vegan will probably never happen for me.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:50 PM

44. For meat eaters most objections are about "like", "preference".

I like and prefer good food too. Thankfully, vegan food is awesome and there is no shortage of options. The real issue isn't about preference, it's about what we do to animals to feed ourselves a daily diet of meat. Truly horrific and disturbing treatment of our fellow creatures on this planet.

Our appetite for meat did not scale well going from a few million people to billions.

When we domesticated animals long ago, there was a symbiotic relationship between us. We protected the herds from predators, found new pasture lands for them to graze upon, and the animals thrived in exchange for wool, fur, leather, and food. Both we and they benefited from the arrangement. Fast forward to today and it's rampant human exploitation of these sentient creatures. It's absolutely sickening but invested interests hide the problem from us very well.

Just know, we kill them by the billions, impregnate them over and over and over to keep the milk and egg production lines rolling. Their lives are a living nightmare. We put them through Hell as we act as demons who torture them before dining on their flesh. We now eat meat, wear leather and wool, and dine on cheese and eggs, in exchange for their suffering. What a reality we have created.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:58 PM

46. Vegetables make me really, really gassy.

I would rather see cows have that type of issue.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 07:59 PM

47. My health.

I was a vegetarian for a good long time and I loved it and was happy but I came down with Gastroparesis and cannot eat much of anything. Check out the FODMAP diets and you will see, if I don't eat at least chicken I can't eat much else.

I am actually beginning to think I am one of the lucky ones. It seems to be less horrible and occasionally someone will recover. I am working on testing fruits and veggies right now and the moment I think I can get by with it I am going back to being a vegetarian.

I have always wanted to be vegan but in my part of the country vegetarianism is finally accepted, not sure how much vegan I can find around here. First things first...try to slowly go back to vegetarian and then I will seriously give vegan a try.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #47)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:18 PM

124. You also could be allergic to the surphur vegetables

I do well with carrots, celery, greens, peppers - but cannot tolerate broccoli, onions, garlic, etc, I became allergic to anything containing surfur after yrs of working in the darkroom and a pesticide exposure. So, to get my veggies, I have a Vitamix and I drink them. I love carrot, apple, lime juice. You can also make great soups in the Vitamix - throw in your veggies and some stock and instant healthy vegetable soup.

My SO is on the FODMAP diet and it has made a huge different in his gastroparesis. He can eat tiny amts of the forbidden foods and do ok.

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #124)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:18 AM

151. It has been slow for me.

I cannot believe the amount of pain this has caused. I can go from a size 8 pant to a 14 in 20 minutes with the bloat. As I said, I think I am actually getting better and that is rare. I never leave hope without my dissolving ondansetron and hyocyamine. Going on 5 years now. I HATE smoothies but juice is good but no apple or lime for me. I have my cheats with salsa and I suffer for it but oh it is so good to have something that tastes spicy and good. Slowly but surely I am working my way up to my favorite, Brussels sprouts. LOL.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:01 PM

48. Was this post sponsored by RT?

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:13 PM

51. i try. I'm almost there

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:17 PM

53. It's rude to question other people's eating habits.

Not driving would save the planet. What's stopping you? Living in tents would save the planet. What's stopping you? Having fewer children would save the planet. What's stopping you? Not using a computer would save the planet. What's stopping you?

Without the "what's stopping you?" part of it, notice it's both not rude and more persuasive.

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Response to gulliver (Reply #53)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:08 AM

147. Well said. +1

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Response to gulliver (Reply #53)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:32 AM

245. Good point

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:18 PM

55. Our evolutionary ancestors scratched and clawed their way to the top of the food chain.

It dishonors their struggle to blithely give up that position.

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:30 PM

102. Godammit, Jesus singlehandedly domesticated dinosaurs for our dining pleasure!

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #102)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:44 PM

137. Such awesome love for humanity! Thanks for the image. Never have seen it. It'll stay with me! n/t

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:22 PM

57. I'm going to pass on that one

But thanks for asking!

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:26 PM

58. Sushi, hamburgers, sushi, yakitori, gong bao ji ding, sushi,

mapo dofu, sashimi, tonkatsu, grilled anago(eel), sushi, deep fried water snake, sashimi, golbogi, sushi...

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:30 PM

61. I'm mostly vegetarian but I won't give up cheese and butter

I also don't beat myself up on the few times per year I feel like eating a burger. I did it right after the 2016 election....even had a big ass carnitas torta because I was feeling miserable and wanted some solace

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Response to tishaLA (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:53 PM

71. giving up dairy was what turned the trick for me

at first i thought it was impossible since i loved cheese so very much
then i cut out dairy (already stopped eating meat)
since then, i've lost over 50 pounds in 5 months and my eczema went away, feels good.

i might eat meat someday if i needed a huge dose of animal protein for some reason, but i will never willingly eat dairy again.

it's hard to think about. i know i was convinced (from many sources, including myself) that cheese and butter were some kind of "ultimate superfood" without which i would quickly atrophy and die. this turned out not to be the case. pretty sure we can all get by just fine without them.

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Response to tishaLA (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:24 PM

80. My kid is the opposite.

She wonít give up meat but sheís so lactose intolerant that even a small amount of dairy makes her blow up the bathroom like you wouldnít believe.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:44 PM

66. It's very difficult to quit an addiction

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Response to dustyscamp (Reply #66)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:45 PM

68. Especially when your body has evolved to need it

 

Like our crazy addiction to air.

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Response to Lheurch (Reply #68)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:19 PM

97. Lots of dead vegans posting here on this thread

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 08:57 PM

72. When I quit drinking alcohol, I didn't try to get everyone else to quit drinking alcohol. (n/t)

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:01 PM

74. Consuming eggs and dairy doesn't harm the planet.

Consuming meat does.

Going vegetarian, not necessarily vegan, is what helps the planet.

Also, it's hard for the average person to get enough protein without some dairy & eggs. It can be done, but it's hard.

I am not quite a total vegetarian. I haven't been able to give up poultry. Maybe I could, if I could find a good replacement for it. Occasionally beans w/rice will suffice. Eggs will do (but too many increases cholesterol). I can't get tofu down the gullet. (I have given up all beef and leather goods, any goods made from killing an animal. That was very easy to do.)

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #74)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:47 PM

91. The idea that you don't get enough protein being vegan is a myth 😉

The myth is propagated by dairy industry.

I donít go out of my way to eat protein, I just get plenty through eating whatever veggies I feel like. Beans, peas, leafy dark greens.....more than enough. I have personal experience with myself about 10 close vegan friends. None of us have ever been short of protein (some vegans for more than 30 years). I also have attended a number of conferences, vegan programs with renown doctors who are leaders in their fields....and most have commented on the myth.

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Response to MLAA (Reply #91)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:49 PM

92. Yeah there is a lot of Vegan whey protein brands and non meat proteins out there

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Response to MLAA (Reply #91)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:09 PM

116. The average person

needs about 56 grams of protein for men, 46 for women. That amounts to 2 ounces or less.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:06 PM

75. $$, time to prep stuff, and availability of quality produce

Vegan is expensive tbh both in terms of time (shopping and prep) and quality.

Im a careful shopper. For ex I only buy meat/seafood in the half price "discount" bin at my grocery store and I save a ton, even over other vegan proteins.

We're omnivores. I don't beat myself up over it. We mostly eat vegetarian/vegan but for me it's all about the budget

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Response to Arazi (Reply #75)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:52 PM

143. Depends on how one does it

Beans and rice are dirt cheap, especially if you start with dry beans. OK, you need to start soaking the beans the day before you want to cook them, but if you have a basically equipped kitchen once you cook them they can be frozen in small batches for future meals. And you're not going to find much vegan ready-made foods or be able to a lot of fast-food options (of course, this depends a lot on where you live).

Like many things in life, it's all about trade-offs: I find vegetable-based meals to be cheaper, but then I have the time, the ability, and the inclination to make them.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:17 PM

77. My taste buds






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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:25 PM

81. Thanks for posting.

I went vegetarian about 10 years ago and vegan 5 years ago. I couldnít agree more with you. Zero downside plus no animals have to die 🙂

I donít have kids, but if I did I think I would do it for them if not for myself. I should have done it sooner, but it took me some time to associate my meals with cruelty.

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Response to MLAA (Reply #81)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:44 PM

90. I wouldn't say zero downside

Off the bat, the majority of food served at regular restaurants is off the menu for you, and you will have to often come up with your own concoctions, likely changing things around (unless the restaurant is vegan of course). Even family gatherings can be a hassle. If you are served mashed potatoes, you will have to ask "Was it made with butter?" You might even get an "I'm not sure, I didn't make it, my Aunt did." It is often more expensive as well.

I've know what it's like, it can be a pain in the ass at times.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #90)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:44 PM

136. Mashed potatoes are the one reason I could never be a vegan.

It is my favorite food in the world, and it's made with butter and a little milk, some salt and pepper. Very simple, but not the same w/ out the butter and milk. Sorry, I just could not give that up. Meat, yes. Mashed potatoes, no.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #136)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:48 PM

139. Vegan butter is a thing now.

Not like old-school margarine, but honestly amazingly buttery stuff. I canít imagine that in a batch of taters anyone could taste the difference.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #139)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:06 AM

146. I could possibly be talked into it.

I am not opposed to vegan food, in fact I have had a lot of vegan food that I have really liked. I just don't think that I could stick to a vegan diet long term. Mostly I would miss the cheese/butter/seafood.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #139)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 10:04 AM

192. I haven't found one I like -- which do you use?

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Response to JudyM (Reply #192)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:19 AM

202. Miyoko's Cultured Vegan Butter.

I donít use it often because Iím not really a butter person (we didnít really eat it as kids because my mom hated butter so I never developed a taste for it), but itís great during holidays and my omni friends are all fans.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #139)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 10:44 AM

197. Most of it is laden with palm oil.

The palm oil industry is just as damaging to the planet and the inhabitants of the rainforests it destroys as are the meat and dairy industries.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #197)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:17 AM

200. That's the old-school margarine.

Vegan ďbutterĒ, like Miyokoís Cultured, doesnít contain palm oil.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #200)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:27 AM

206. No, that's all the "vegan" butter substitutes that are widely available.

Like Earth Balance and Melt (which is only available here in individual plastic-wrapped portions.) I have never heard of Miyoko's Cultured. It is not available in any of the numerous grocery stores in my town.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #206)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:18 PM

210. Huh. Miyoko's is everywhere here.

I guess living in California has upsides, assuming you have any money left after paying the rent.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #136)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:10 PM

269. The best butter in the world is that Irish Butter

My eight yr old grandson even commented on it. It's OMG butter! When your relatives start asking what kind of butter you are using, you know it's super delicious.

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #269)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:48 PM

278. Oh, yes! I have used Kerrygold before.

It is delicious. I could almost just eat it on it's own. I love butter. One of my favorite lazy meals is a really good crusty loaf of bread from Whole Foods or another specialty store cut lenghthwise and then into segments (so that every piece has crust). And then I toast it in the toaster-over and slather it with really good Irish, Danish or Vermont organic butter. It's so simple, but so good!

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Response to MLAA (Reply #81)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 09:53 PM

93. You made me think about why I experience no downside.

I am fortunate that all my close friends are vegan. The last couple holdouts converted recently after a cancer scare. So I get to go to wonderful dinner parties at friends homes that are 100 percent vegan food. And when any of us host a dinner at a restaurant we have 4 choices in town, one vegan and the other three with a number of terrific vegan options.

Though it is a pain at airports and I started traveling with my own food.

Anyway, you made realize how fortunate I am that my social circle is vegan. 😉

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:09 PM

94. My family

we're talking generations, had cattle ranches. Grew up on a ranch. To this day, I will only eat what I can kill that day. Which, for me, I know the ins and outs of killing, dressing, and butchering an animal. Be it deer, elk, pig, chicken, cow, or fish. I know the work and the heart ache it takes to go from a live animal to a hamburger. So, when I say, I will only eat what I can kill, I take it very seriously, and very rarely eat meat because of that upbringing.

But, I also know that not every egg from a chicken is fertilized so they sit on perfectly good eggs waiting for them to hatch, and I will eat those eggs (I raise chickens) and when I have a cow, I will steal a bucket or two of milk for cheese (which I love) when she has a calf. And I will eat honey.

That said, I haven't eaten pork, beef or chicken in five years. And sometimes, I will have crab or lobster when the occasion presents itself. (been crabbing a couple of times, but never fished (or hunted???) lobster.

Ho
sage

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Response to sagetea (Reply #94)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:33 PM

227. I have my own chickens too and I feed them only organic feed and vegetables

I like raw egg yokes in my smoothies and I will only put in eggs I just gathered that morning - maybe 20 minutes old.

My friend sells grass fed beef and she doesn't finish with corn, so it's very lean. I can see her cows out in the fields and how healthy they are. It's good to know where your food is coming from these days.

I don't eat my own chickens, but in NM there are some great organic chicken farms. They plant organic grains that the chickens then forage. The chicken is lean too. One of my dogs is a very fussy eater who loves chicken on his kibble so I buy the non organic chicken for him and the difference in fat content is amazing. I feel bad feeding it to him. If I was rich, he would be getting organic chicken.

The nearest tiny town even has a farmers market with great organic vegetables.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:17 PM

96. In a nutshell?



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Response to quickesst (Reply #96)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 12:50 PM

254. Vegan dies!

104 year old retired cardiothoracic surgeon; Dr. Ellsworth Wareham, died in 2018. Slacker![link:|

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:22 PM

98. I'm a bodybuilder, and I don't want to look like Thom Hartman

Great radio show, but in the gym not so much

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #98)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:38 PM

105. check out these 10 vegan bodybuilders!

https://www.vegansouls.com/vegan-bodybuilders



4. Billy Simmonds
He won the Mr. Natural Universe Competition in 2009 and believes that being vegan is the right choice whether it is for the environment or for oneís own health as well as the impact one has on others.

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Response to diva77 (Reply #105)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:49 AM

163. Uh huh ..they ain't Dorian Yates or Jay Cutler

Those are fitness athletes, not bodybuilders

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #98)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:39 PM

106. There are some successful vegan bodybuilders.

I think one of our regular posters is a vegan builder. These guys look like theyíre doing well.





To be fair most vegans donít look like that, but neither do most meat eaters. I grew up eating almost nothing but meat, largely wild game, and even then I was as skinny as a rail. Iím just a naturally scrawny guy.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #106)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:51 PM

141. Eww! They are freakish looking! Not because they are vegan, but I think all body builders are

freakish looking. I guess some people find that attractive, but I am not one of them. There is something about that level of vanity that turns me off, not to mention the lack of "human-ness" about them. They don't seem real to me.

I would rather have someone with a little extra padding than someone who is obsessed with himself to the point of distorting his body into a stone sculpture.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #141)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:53 PM

144. It isn't my bag, that's for sure.

And thatís good, because I could lift weights 24/7 for the rest of my days and still look like a twig. The genetics just ainít there.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #106)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 10:38 AM

195. I do NOT find this "look" attractive.

Not even a teensy weensy bit.

I find it disturbing, actually....

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #98)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:58 PM

111. LOL!

Buy a book before you hurt yourself.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #111)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:54 AM

166. I have advanced degrees in toxicology

And I have competed in powerlifting and bodybuilding for 25 years. I think I have them chemistry down than you

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #166)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 12:47 AM

241. LOL, cool story bro. n/t

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Response to flvegan (Reply #241)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 05:48 AM

243. I have stated it here many times bro.

I'm sure it pales in comparison to your degree in naturapathy or was it holistic medicine? Lol

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #98)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 03:57 AM

161. NFL running back Ricky Williams is a vegan

David Johnson experimented it with one year and went back to meat and had a down year but I blame Mike McCoy for that more than his diet.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #161)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:50 AM

165. Ricky Williams was a bust

Tell me Marcus Allen was a vegan and I might be impressed

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #165)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:04 AM

168. LOL

He had 1800+ yards in a season and came back and had another 1000 yard season.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillRi00.htm



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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #168)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:07 AM

170. NFL players' surprising performance hack: going vegan

And this year, at least 15 members of the Tennessee Titans have switched to plant-based meal plans, ESPN reported ahead of the season opener. In 2017, a reported 11 Titans had gone vegan and the team made it all the way to the playoffs for the first time in a decade, according to SI.com.

Titans linebacker Derrick Morgan went vegan a year and a half ago. Defensive tackle Jurrell Casey and defensive lineman DaQuan Jones took the leap too. Linebacker Wesley Woodyard needed a little more convincing.

"Y'all crazy with this vegan thing," was Woodyard's initial reaction, reported ESPN. "I'm from LaGrange, Georgia. I'm going to eat my pork."

But soon he was convinced, and better for it. "My energy level's gone up," Woodyard, told the Associated Press. "And it's just putting in good fuel to your body. And of course, it's always hard to keep weight on [during the season]. But it's worth it for me staying on top of my health."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/09/07/nfl-players-are-going-vegan.html

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #168)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:00 AM

172. When Mike Ditka gives up his entire draft

To move up to #5, and you get 1 probowl, you're a bust.

Ricky Williams effectively ended Ditka's NFK career and gave Dallas ammunition for draft picks that built a dynasty.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #172)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:23 AM

173. That is on Mike Ditka

He also signed a contract with a No Limit records agent that basically said he had to produce like Terrell Davis.

He did very good with Miami. I'd ask Dolphin fans if he was a bust. He was very good in a backfield with Ronnie Brown. A wildcat formation with Ronnie Brown & Ricky Williams was very effective. Ricky Williams got a 1,000 yards several years apart when Ronnie Brown went down proving he can do it on his own.

Dallas dynasty predates Ricky Williams. Maybe you're thinking of the Herschel Walker trade?

Did you see my post about the entire Titans defense going vegan? It should at least prove that there are vegans who can play football even though a very talented Ricky Williams isn't enough.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #172)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:50 AM

184. The trade wasn't made with Dallas.

It was made with Washington, and the Redskins didn't really end up benefiting all that much.

As for Dallas, you are probably thinking of the Hershel Walker trade.

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Response to Captain Stern (Reply #184)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 03:39 PM

223. You're right

Herschel Trade was a boon to Dallas

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #172)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:08 PM

257. Mike Ditka as a GM was a bust.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:29 PM

101. Humans have been eating meat of all kinds since the beginning of time. Why should we stop now? I do

eat lots of fruits and vegetables, too. I guess I will be an omnivore the rest of my life. What I don't agree with is others questioning me about why I should not eat any kind of meat. Some sound like a cult. To each his own, I say.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:31 PM

103. Tried a few times

Our family never ate meat for health reasons and as a protest to how the poor beasts are treated before slaughter. Ingesting the horror they must feel in that situation is sickening to me. Then you have hormones and fuck knows what else.

But vegan? Maybe a good cookbook should be on order because I would eventually feel very lethargic. For instance, riding 200 miles a week on a bike would get incredibly hard to compete. I'd run out of steam!

Hmm

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:41 PM

107. Because I don't want to be.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 10:56 PM

109. I don't expect our dogs to be vegan.

I buy their food at Costco.

I buy rice and beans and olive oil for myself.

About half the people in my family are vegetarian approaching vegan. My wife is.

I'll eat meat opportunistically. If my dad serves fish he caught, or other relatives serve beef, then yeah, I'll eat it.



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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:04 PM

112. can we meat in the middle?

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #112)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:12 PM

120. Are you trying to egg this poster on? n/t

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:04 PM

113. You know what crusading vegetarians/vegans sound like here, in the General Discussion forum?

They sound like Christian fundies who show up at Pete Buttigieg rallies, shouting, "Repent!"

You have your little safe space in your own group, I don't barge into those threads extolling the virtues of eating meat or cheese, or drinking milk.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #113)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:22 PM

126. My feelings exactly.

I've run into a few of the "evangelist" -type vegans, and when I see someone say "Go vegan! Save the planet!"

I say "Bullshit."

Especially from a guy on Putin's payroll.

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Response to Archae (Reply #126)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:24 PM

128. Read my post #122

for my thoughts on the folks you sometimes encounter.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:22 PM

127. Pea farms going up all over the prairies in canada. It is pea protein

that they use to make great tasting faux sausage and faux burgers.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #127)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:26 PM

129. And if they can successfully do that, great

As long as we have choices at the supermarket. I don't care what somebody else likes/wants to eat.

But trying to shame me out of something is very likely to have the exact opposite effect. I spent too long as a Catholic to eat any more of that!

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #129)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:28 PM

131. Supposedly the pea protein burgers taste the same as beef. I can't wait to try.

Of course they are as salty as burgers so they are not good for you. But if they taste the same and don't hurt the environment as much - why not?

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Response to applegrove (Reply #131)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:35 PM

133. I'm the cook in the house

and I asked my lady if she'd toss me out on my ear if I served up a fake meat burger, and didn't tell her about it until she was mostly through eating it. She agreed to let me try, and while I won't pay a dime extra for them, if I see some of the newer veggie burgers in the "getting near pull date" bin at my favorite supermarket, we just might put it to the test.

The saltiness gives me pause, we both take meds for high blood pressure, and she's got it worse than me. At least my generic lisinopril makes my BP look normal when I go for checkups, her drug is hit-or-miss.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #131)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:36 PM

134. They don't taste the same, really.

They taste damned close, and every meat eater Iíve served one to has loved them. Iím not going to pretend pea protein can truly mimic the complexity of flavors and textures muscle tissue possesses. I prefer to enjoy them as their own delicious thing.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #134)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:45 PM

138. Good to know. I'll adjust my expectations.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #138)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:39 PM

212. Same here

There's nothing wrong with finding new foods that you like to eat.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #127)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 10:35 AM

194. Stay away from pea protein - tests show high levels of glyphosate

from spraying with Roundup right before harvest


Pea protein could prove to have its own concerns, however. The Detox Project, a research organization that tests foods for the pesticide glyphosate, has been looking at it over the past year, and the results, like those for other products tested for the popular pesticide, arenít pretty.

ďWe can hardly find a clean pea protein source anywhere,Ē says Henry Rowlands, the projectís director. In fact, products labeled as organic had much higher levels of the pesticide than conventional versions, he says. The group tested eight top-selling protein powders on Amazon, using a laboratory that's approved by the California Department of Food and Agriculture/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-14/the-mighty-pea-is-everybody-s-new-favorite-plant-based-protein

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #194)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 03:39 PM

224. That's depressing. Maybe the farms in canada's prairies don't use it?

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Response to applegrove (Reply #224)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:40 PM

228. Actually, the northern part of the US & Canada often use glyphosate to dry their crops

because they have a shorter growing season.

Glyphosate Used to Speed Up Wheat Harvest

Charles Benbrook, Ph.D., who published the paper on the mounting use of glyphosate, says the practice of spraying glyphosate on wheat prior to harvest, known as desiccating, began in Scotland in the 1980s.

ďFarmers there often had trouble getting wheat and barley to dry evenly so they can start harvesting. So they came up with the idea to kill the crop (with glyphosate) one to two weeks before harvest to accelerate the drying down of the grain," he said.

The pre-harvest use of glyphosate allows farmers to harvest crops as much as two weeks earlier than they normally would, an advantage in northern, colder regions.

The practice spread to wheat-growing areas of North America such as the upper Midwestern U.S. and Canadian provinces such as Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

https://www.ecowatch.com/roundup-cancer-1882187755.html

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Response to applegrove (Reply #127)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:22 PM

271. Because of the short Canadian growing seasons, all those peas are being dried with glyphosate

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency has gone where the U.S. government dares not tread Ė testing thousands of foods commonly consumed by its citizens for residues of a controversial herbicide linked to cancer. And the findings are less than appetizing.

The agency said it found the pesticide known as glyphosate, the key ingredient in Monsanto Co.ís Roundup branded herbicides and other products, in 29.7 percent of 3,188 foods tested in 2015 and 2016. Glyphosate was found in 47.4 percent of beans, peas and lentil products; 36.6 percent of grain products; and 31 percent of baby cereals, the agency report states.



Monsanto has also encouraged farmers to spray the chemical directly on oats, wheat, peas and lentils shortly before harvest to help dry them out.

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #271)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:41 PM

276. Did not know that. I thought if they say it is organic it means no round up.

I have lots to learn.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:43 PM

135. No thanks, I love my BLT's

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 11:51 PM

142. Thinking about what's really involved can start weaning anyone away from early childhood habits.

Taking life seriously transforms everyone.

Consciousness has to be important to people to awaken from the american coma.

Thank you for your post.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #142)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 10:11 AM

193. Well said, Judi Lynn. Evolving consciousness is the only thing that can save the planet.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:41 AM

148. I decided it wasn't good for me.

Neither is eating lots of meat, but everyone knows that. I was vegan for a few years with rare excursions. This was the super healthy veganism found in the book "Eat to Live", heavy in fruits, veggies, beans, and nuts. After all, french fries in canola oil are vegan, as is cane sugar, and that shit is probably worse for you than red meat. So after a few years of eating super healthy, getting to a healthy weight and feeling better, I started getting strong cravings. The thought of the veggies and beans made me feel sick. I'd satisfy the cravings by eating tuna melts for a few days, then be OK to go back to vegan. Then after a couple more years, I developed some weird neurological symptoms, along with muscle and joint pain. Long story short, the doctors didn't figure it out, but I did. It was clinical vitamin D deficiency, possibly combined with deficiencies in other lesser known micronutrients that developed over time due to the lack of animal products. (It wasn't B12, I'd been taking that.)

So now I still eat lots of fruit and veggies, but I eat animal products a few times a week, and I take Vitamin D and of course B12. I agree that the standard American diet is unhealthy, but also believe it is unnatural and unhealthy (at least for my phenotype) to eat pure vegan.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:45 AM

149. I don't deny I evolved as an omnivore?

And current science suggest without meat consumption we would still be chimpanzee like intelligence wise?

Plus, I hunt or catch a good bit of the meat I consume so Iím kind of fulfilling my evolutionary destiny.

Caught and froze almost 30 nice fish over the last 3 days alone. Spotted sea trout and flounder. And my wife was doing it as well so we followed all game laws. Usually take 3 deer a year.

But I do eat a lot of veggies and legumes and try to be meat free a few days a week.

Iím good.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:39 AM

152. taste...

...

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:49 AM

153. My digestion system

I hate one-size-fits-all solutions. If such things worked, we wouldn't have shoe stores or optometrists.

If going Vegan works for you, more power to you.

It doesn't work for me.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:43 AM

162. I still eat some tiny shrimp in salad

And salmon or fish.
Sometimes have ranch dressing...
Gave everything else up though... even chicken.
Vast improvement over 2 eggs a day..butter..
Usually 2 Mcdoubles ..fries..ice cream.
Till i got proof my arteries were beginning to harden...
Ill see how it goes...
September i do another round of blood work..

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:01 AM

167. I do vegetarian on alternate days

but I'm still really susceptible to iron deficient anemia. And yes I know I can take iron pills, I just can't digest them very well and they kill my appetite.

I tried full veggie for about three months and it was the most miserable I've ever been in my life. I don't think you have to go vegan to "save the planet". Just exercise moderation and go for ethically raised and locally sourced.

I don't have a car and walk about two hours a day. That's my bit for the planet and for my own health.

If I tried to live without cheese, I would off myself within a month - but I guess that would be doing my part for the environment by combating overpopulation...

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:04 AM

169. gravy. but eating less meat. some nights meatless.

BLTs. no seafood. bakery w/ eggs. brownies. gotta have eggs.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:11 AM

171. I gave up red meat and pork in 1979

Still eat seafood and bird.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 07:47 AM

175. I'll be sticking with scientific consensus and

will be keeping meat as part of my diet.

I'd rather address the real issues at hand and not some inefectual band aid that makes you feel better about yourself.
Yes the industry need massive reforms and yes we do need to change the way we eat and produce but it can be done.

Vote for the right people, not the woo peddlars or the status quo.
Don't lose the ability to think critically for oneselves, that is whjat has got us here in the first place.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 07:52 AM

176. I'll have to find other ways to help then

Not interested but cheers to anyone who is.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 07:53 AM

177. I will stick with meat....

1)I am unable to properly digest Legumes(Beans of all kinds), Soy, White potatoes. They ferment in my gut, cause undue bloating, cramping, the farts, and sometime the runs. While I take Digestive Enzymes, I still am unable to eat these plant based proteins.

2) The same goes for Wheat based products. Yeasts do me in. AS does Sugar. So most Pastas are out unless made from Brown Rice. Corn based products are also a No-No.

3) I am also Lactose intolerant. I can eat up to 3 ounces of sheese in a week.

So I stick with meats and Eggs for my protein sources.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:45 AM

182. nothing can replaced smoked ribs coming out of the smoker for starters

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #182)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:42 PM

214. Mmm, yeah

Had them two nights ago from The Fishin' Pig in Waynesboro, VA on half price rib night. Even after two hand washings, I could still smell the smokiness on my fingers! And their sweet Memphis sauce was soooo good!

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:00 AM

185. Kick

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:11 AM

186. Thank you for posting this topic

It's hard for me to keep quiet about this topic when I see my friends suffering from the animal-related diet issues that they do. Obesity, cancer, diabetes, etc.
And, no, a vegan diet is actually cheap if you cook your own food.

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Response to yellowwoodII (Reply #186)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:56 AM

189. So your assessment is based on anecdotal data from friends in bad health...

Therefore, if I point anecdotally to people who eat meat who are in GOOD health, you'll stop being vegan?

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:53 AM

188. There are good reasons for going vegan, but it won't save the planet.

The planet can only be saved by collective action. Voting is the most important thing you can do to save the planet.

Yes, individuals reducing their own carbon footprint is a good thing, but the total effect of this is tiny in comparison to, say, electing Bolsonaro who then gets rid of huge swaths of rain forest.

A vegan who bikes to work and votes GOP is harming the climate far more than an SUV-driving carnivore who votes Dem.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:57 AM

190. Bite Size Vegan

[link:|

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:15 AM

199. I've tried but I get massive bruises

The times Iíve tried to go vegetarian are numerous, and every single time I start bruising within a week. Big, ugly purple bruises on my arms and legs. I try to buy meat from a family farm. I donít purchase from regular stores.

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Response to cabot (Reply #199)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 02:07 PM

217. I went vegan for a year out of cruel animal treatment.

My lips started cracking, and I went to the doctor and was told it was from a Vitamin D deficiency, even though I was taking supplements, and getting lots of sunshine. Doctor said my body wasn't wasn't absorbing the supplements. I went back to free-range local meat, dairy and eggs, and I healed and feel great.
I started a somewhat laid-back Keto diet 2 months ago and have lost 12 pounds and I have more energy.
Everyone's body is different.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:22 AM

203. Religious crazies lying to get you to follow them. n/t

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:22 AM

204. Fatigue, psoriatic arthritis, and actually high cholesterol!

All were dramatically reduced when I returned to a high fat (including animal fat), low grain diet. Go figure.

Try vegan. If vegan works for you, I support you.

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Response to Freethinker65 (Reply #204)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 02:10 PM

218. I can relate.

I have more energy and my cholesterol is within the normal range now since I've been playing around with the Keto diet. I eat eggs and cheese every day, and mostly chicken and fish for animal protein.

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Response to zackymilly (Reply #218)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 02:35 PM

222. Yep!

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 11:59 AM

209. I can think of two reasons. First, I don't eat a lot of meat, but I do enjoy it.

A ďdietĒ I donít like is not sustainable anyway, but more importantly, Iím concerned that Iím going to turn into the sort of person who uses all of my interactions with others to proselytize. I know several vegans, and they all do it, at least to newer people (thankfully, theyíve given up on me).

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:41 PM

213. I have cut back dramatically on my meat consumption.

I will never stop eating meat.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 02:17 PM

220. My favorite annoying, over the top response to vegans

 

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:12 PM

225. I like all the things a vegan diet forbids

Meat, seafood, eggs, dairy. Yes, I also eat vegetables & fruit. It's called a balanced diet.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 04:16 PM

226. Taste.

And I dislike gas pains

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:29 PM

233. I wish I had more vegan/vegetarian options in my area

Living in a smaller city in SE MO and let my tell you the options are not great here. I've just bought some bocca burgers and I think the Morningstar farms ones but they don't sell the ones by Beyond or any of the others suggested on the websites with a best of list. I like the smart dogs I can get at Wal-Mart and there's a few options at Kroger but I'm living in an area that sells Larry the Cable guy brand Hamburger Helper knockoff, so that should give you an idea of the shopping around me.

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Response to Revanchist (Reply #233)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 05:52 PM

234. "Larry the Cable guy brand Hamburger Helper knockoff"

Good god almighty.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #234)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:31 PM

237. Oh he has a full food line

The hamburger helper stuff, chips, French fries maybe more. The first time I saw it I had to send a pic to my mom to show her that I'm stuck in BFE


Not my pic, one I got online

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:34 PM

239. Chicken maceration *graphic*

This is standard business in the egg industry. Nearly half of chicks, all male will meet this fate. A few are gassed, others suffocated in plastic bags instead.

[link:|



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Response to Mendocino (Reply #239)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 12:10 AM

279. Germany is trying to deal with this issue right now - animal rights vs the rights of the farmers etc

I will say that watching on TV in Germany the reports on exactly what happens to the male chicks was pretty disturbing to hear. Then again, is there ever anything pleasant about death? As long as we are needing to eat food and have animal protein and distribute it widely, there will be animals dying. Its just that none of us ever think about it. We pick up our dozen eggs at the grocery store and we get our chicken breasts packaged for making for dinner that night.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:56 AM

247. As long as there are slaughter houses,

there will always be battlefields-Tolstoy

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:53 PM

249. whats stopping me???...hmmmm

maybe my DNA/ancestry...? I'm a native american Indian and my people lived on deer and buffalo...somehow getting all my protein thru veggies just doesn't seem right...

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Response to cntrfthrs (Reply #249)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:29 PM

289. Native Americans had a wide and varied diet

Many groups, especially in the East, were farmers who grew maize, beans, and squashes - the ancient MesoAmericans domesticated these, along with peppers, tomatoes, and other plants. The pre-contact California cultures were said to been the most omnivorous people, eating a wild variety of roots, shoots, berries, nuts, and seeds along with what animals they could hunt or fish for. AFAIK, none of them were strict vegan or strict meat-eaters. Like people everywhere they went in for variety, usually a lot more than modern Americans do.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 12:08 AM

250. I will now mock the grocery store bacon eaters...

... for I have killed, cured, smoked and eaten bacon myself.

Humans are meat too, especially those fattened on high fructose corn syrup.



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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 02:00 AM

251. Just waiting for more fake-meat options

I want to be able to find Beyond and Impossible meat in the store. It's too expensive to buy them in restaurants.

Also, non-dairy cheese and milk suck, IMO.

I own a cat, and since cats are obligate carnivores I'm technically a meat eater by proxy due to her diet.

Finally, there are no vegan eggs. I raise my own flock though, which is better than industrial farming.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #251)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:09 PM

258. Where do you live?

The Beyond stuff is getting more and more ubiquitous at major grocery chains.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #258)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:59 PM

261. 45 min south of St. Paul, MN. Kinda rural.

I just checked 3 Super Targets last month, no luck on Beyond Beef crumbles anywhere. There were a variety of other veggie options, but I've yet to find one good enough to replace a good burger.

Hoping the new Tyson faux-chicken nuggets they just announced will be easier to find.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #261)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 12:48 AM

262. The crumbles won't really do for a burger.

They donít hold together. The patties are an entirely different product. They even feel like meat when youíre flattening them down a bit before tossing in the pan.

I hadnít heard about the Tyson nuggets. I need to go look that up.

On edit; Argh ó egg whites.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #251)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:29 PM

272. Check out the mega ingredients in Beyond meat and see if you still want to eat it

Wood?

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #272)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:36 PM

275. . . .



Bamboo isnít wood, and is regularly used as food.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #275)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:50 PM

295. but pine trees are wood and regularly used in make believe burgers

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 11:46 PM

277. The fact that beef, pork and chicken are delicious stops me.

A bacon wrapped filet mignon is pure heaven. I like fruits and vegetables but thereís no match for the flavor of a great steak among them.

I eat less of it than I did before but thereís no way Iíd ever give it up entirely.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:19 AM

280. Two reasons

The mildest one is that I don't like what vegans have to eat. Unless you want to get into the whole synthetic meat universe, the vegan diet is mainly things like beans and lentils, neither of which I can stand. If you do go the fake-meat path, the amount of processing it takes to do it is outrageous.

Larger is that there's no way we can scale up the food system to support a purely vegetarian diet for the whole world without a massive sea change. We just plain don't have the cropland.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #280)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:14 PM

287. 1.5 acre of an acre

can provide 37,000 pounds of food. The same amount only provides 375 pounds. One person can live on 1/16th per acre on a vegan diet. A vegetarian diet needs 3 acres. A meat eater needs 18 acres.

A vegan saves 50% less carbon
1/11 the oil
1/13 the water
1/18 the land
than a meat eater

A vegan uses 1100 less gallons of water
45 less pounds of grain
saves 30 square feet of land
20 lbs less than CO2 equivalent
than a meat eater

"We just don't have the land" just doesn't stand up.

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Response to Mendocino (Reply #287)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:08 PM

288. Would you happen to know why pastureland is pastureland?

It's because it's not suitable for anything but grazing. In theory you could use this land for soy or quinoa by implementing old-fashioned hand agriculture, but let's cut the crap: only by forcing a significant percentage of the US population onto the farm could you expect to feed everyone by converting pasture to cropland.

But that's okay because I cannot stand to eat chickpeas, lentils, black beans or quinoa, and I refuse to eat hyper-processed foods. This means that if I went vegan I would lose all my protein sources.

Besides, "voting Republicans out of office and getting people to drive the smallest car they can" will do more to save the planet than demanding people eat foods they do not like. The Ford F350 one-ton pickup is not a family car. By getting people out of the damned things unless they have a specific business purpose for them, you will do far more to solve the climate problem than pushing veganism.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:26 AM

283. right after I go join the temperance union

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:32 AM

284. Ghee

We spend too much of our time in India, where veganism is essentially unknown and damned near impossible.

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 06:21 AM

285. No because Hartmann would then try to make me buy gold in a scam.

n/t

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Response to thomhartmann (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 04:48 PM

291. This is the best post ever.

I give thanks to my ancestors who survived, never forgetting humans are made of meat.

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