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Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:40 PM

I see the Dems. hands completely tied with the rethugs power grab.

Nancy is trying to do EVERYTHING possible in my eyes! I hear a lot about inherent contempt. I've googled it, and i'm not clear on how they could use it. Does the house have to follow certain procedures BEFORE using it? Also will this type of contempt actually be something they SHOULD try? I do have full trust in the House, but i guess i'm just thinking out loud. Is VOTE VOTE VOTE our ONLY way out of this RETHUGLICON mess? Maybe someone could explain EXACTLY what using INHERENT CONTEMPT would do if anything. It is hard seeing these assholes continue COLLUDE and OBSTRUCT EVERYDAY. (BLATANTLY)

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Reply I see the Dems. hands completely tied with the rethugs power grab. (Original post)
bluestarone Jun 2019 OP
watoos Jun 2019 #1
bluestarone Jun 2019 #3
cilla4progress Jun 2019 #2
bluestarone Jun 2019 #4
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #5
bluestarone Jun 2019 #6
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #7
bluestarone Jun 2019 #8
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #9
bluestarone Jun 2019 #10

Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:49 PM

1. Desperate times call for desperate measures

 

An impeachment inquiry will change the narrative

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:55 PM

3. THAT would be very interresting BUT

Would it change ANYTHING about getting the questions the house needs answered any faster? I believe these asshole will STALL STALL STALL!! I want something that will FORCE answers NOW! THAT'S the problem we have. They know the can't win in court BUT they also know they can STALL seems like FOREVER!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:53 PM

2. I just left a message with my Dem Rep in a newly turned blue district -

Dr. Kim Schrier - Washington state.

I had trouble articulating my message to her!

I'm 50% impeach for all the MORE THAN OBVIOUS reasons.

And I'm 50% I don't want to go back to having an R congressperson, if pushing for impeachment would come to that!

And who's to know if it would????

At this point, I think I just have to trust Pelosi?

I did call her (and Schrier) last week when trump told Stephanopolous he is planning on colluding again with Russians or anyone who can help him win, and implored them to impeach.

Roller coaster.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:59 PM

4. I hear ya!

So do you have a thought on using Inherent Contempt? Would that speed anything up? (or even help getting the questions answered) I don't think it would, but i don't know!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:09 PM

5. Here's some information on contempt options

 

A primer on Contempt of Congress enforcement
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212116082

There are three methods Congress can use to enforce a Contempt of Congress citation in response to a witness' refusal to respond to a subpoena. All of them share specific requirements to get the ball rolling and then branch out into three different processes.

First, once the subpoena is issued, the witness or holder of documents has to definitively refuse to comply. That means more than just saying they won't, but to take some affirmative step to defy the subpoena, such as fail to appear or produce the documents by the deadline.

In McGahn's case, although he signaled yesterday he wouldn't show up, he didn't trigger anything until he actually didn't show up at the appointed time today. He has now defied the subpoena.

The Judiciary Committee now must make some effort to get him to comply. It might be by letter (the much-derided "strongly worded" letter is mocked around here, but it performs a legal necessity), conversations with him or his attorneys to try to negotiate compliance, or some other method. This is necessary because, down the road, before upholding a contempt citation, a court will require a showing that Congress made a good faith effort to secure compliance prior to issuing the citation.

If those efforts fail, the House Judiciary would hold an executive meeting - aka "markup" - to vote on a contempt recommendation. Markups usually require several days notice and usually, the minority can request a one-week extension.

At the markup, the Judiciary Committee members will discuss the measure and then vote. If a majority of Members agree, the contempt recommendation will be referred to the floor to be voted on by the full House.

When that happens, the measure will likely be referred to the Rules Committee which will set out the parameters for debate (how long each side has, etc.) and the vote. That usually doesn't take long and there may be ways to avoid having to do a rule on a contempt vote ( I haven't looked into that). The debate and vote are scheduled and then the full House votes. Simple majority carries.

If the measure passes, the Congress has now officially cited the witness for contempt. At that point, there are three different avenues that can be taken for enforcement. The first is already a nonstarter, so there's no point in even trying, unless they just want to make a point. That would be to refer the citation to the US Attorney for DC and ask them to enforce the citation with an arrest or prosecution. Since the US Attorney reports to the Attorney General, that ain't gonna happen. So let's move on.

The next possibility is for Congress to exercise its "inherent contempt" power, a rare tactic, which Congress hasn't done in nearly a century, but is being seriously considered. That could mean imposing a fine or instructing the Sergeant-at-Arms to arrest the subject and bring them before the body to answer the contempt charge. If they still don't comply, they would be held in custody until they do or until a judge orders them released. While it's possible to do this, it would be very difficult to pull this off logistically in many instances. It might be easier for a McGahn, who is a private citizen. But it's not clear how the Sergeant-at-Arms would go about arresting the Attorney General or other federal official under 24-7 protection of federal agents and whose homes and workplace are virtual fortresses. It will be interesting to see what happens if they go that route.

The third possibility is to go to court and ask it to enforce the citation. If the court rules that the subject must comply, failure to comply would result in a contempt of court citation, in addition to the contempt of Congress. In such cases, the court could enforce by, among other things ordering the US Marshals to arrest a subject.

The bottom line is that contempt of Congress citations aren't simple things and Nadler can't just snap his fingers and throw someone in jail because they didn't show up this morning..

I hope this is helpful. You can read more about the enforcement of Contempt of Congress citations here: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45653.pdf and here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-congress-subpoena-explainer/explainer-how-hard-hitting-are-u-s-congress-subpoenas-contempt-citations-idUSKCN1SC1YE

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:15 PM

6. TY i did read this BUT still confused.

Does the House have to follow each step BEFORE using Inherent contempt? In your thinking will using it, speed things up for the DEMS. in the house? Seems like using it, when the start their Impeachment INQUIRES, it would REALLY help? What do you think?

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:23 PM

7. Yes. The House does have to go through each step to use its inherent contempt powers HOWEVER

 

Last week, the House voted to give the Judiciary Chairman the authority to go straight to court without having to go back for a vote by the full House.

It won't do any more good in an impeachment inquiry than at any other time. They have the power to use it to compel testimony for any proceeding - that's not the problem. The challenge is how to enforce it.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:26 PM

8. TY so now

It would be up to the courts? Then THAT court order could be appealed, and appealed, am i right?

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:29 PM

9. Yes and no

 

The court would have to enforce it, but the appeals wouldn't take very long

The problem is not whether the court enforces it, but how. Arresting an attorney general and putting him in jail is not as easy as it sounds, even with a court order.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:32 PM

10. So true! BUT

I'm thinking of arresting OTHERS, ( the ones that WON'T answer the questions NOT just the AG)

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