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Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:06 PM

Here's why "We Shouldn't Impeach Because Trump won't be Removed by the Senate" isn't even an excuse

The US Senate has NEVER removed a president that has been impeached. NEVER. NOT ONCE.

They have had two opportunities, once with Andrew Johnson, and once with Bill Clinton. Johnson was a racist clown, and Clinton's impeachment looks more ridiculous every year. So, we already know that the Senate is inclined to keep racist clowns around.

Impeachment really has nothing to do with removal from office. The fact that the threat of impeachment caused another scoundrel to step down before it happened is a historical outlier. We already know that Trump has no shame and wouldn't step down in similar circumstances. So, impeachment (without removal) is the thing we are after - especially highly publicized hearings and discovery during the investigation which are the things that truly hurt Nixon.

Can't we, for once, really hurt Donald Trump? Can't someone, somewhere, in this entire country grab this moronic, traitorous fascist by the neck and give him a good shake (metaphorically, of course). Just once?

"He won't be removed" is a certainty. That has NEVER happened, and is obviously not what the act of impeachment is about.

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Reply Here's why "We Shouldn't Impeach Because Trump won't be Removed by the Senate" isn't even an excuse (Original post)
ProfessorPlum Jun 19 OP
watoos Jun 19 #1
Tipperary Jun 19 #10
Recursion Jun 19 #2
watoos Jun 19 #7
Gothmog Jun 19 #11
zipplewrath Jun 19 #3
uponit7771 Jun 19 #4
Grasswire2 Jun 21 #28
uponit7771 Jun 21 #29
RKP5637 Jun 19 #5
ProfessorPlum Jun 19 #6
RKP5637 Jun 19 #8
Gothmog Jun 19 #9
Jakes Progress Jun 20 #21
gratuitous Jun 19 #12
ProfessorPlum Jun 19 #13
Gothmog Jun 19 #14
world wide wally Jun 20 #15
TryLogic Jun 20 #16
Martin Eden Jun 20 #17
Jakes Progress Jun 20 #22
Martin Eden Jun 20 #23
Jakes Progress Jun 22 #39
StarfishSaver Jun 23 #43
warmfeet Jun 20 #18
Fiendish Thingy Jun 20 #20
Martin Eden Jun 20 #24
Fiendish Thingy Jun 20 #19
elevator48 Jun 21 #25
ehrnst Jun 24 #47
Snackshack Jun 21 #26
emmaverybo Jun 21 #27
samnsara Jun 21 #33
samnsara Jun 21 #30
Baltimike Jun 21 #31
Baltimike Jun 21 #32
mtnsnake Jun 21 #35
StarfishSaver Jun 23 #44
ProfessorPlum Jun 21 #36
Baltimike Jun 21 #37
boston bean Jun 21 #34
oldsoftie Jun 23 #46
Crunchy Frog Jun 22 #38
Jakes Progress Jun 22 #40
StarfishSaver Jun 23 #45
IronLionZion Jun 23 #41
LakeArenal Jun 23 #42

Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:07 PM

1. It's too soon

 

Wait until after the coronation.

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:52 PM

10. Lol.

No shit.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:10 PM

2. And both times it cost the impeaching party seats

We can't afford that.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:31 PM

7. Actually not true

 

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:57 PM

11. We risk losing a large number of moderate seats

We flipped two house seats in 2018 in Texas. Both were red districts. Nancy Pelosi does not want to risk these seats

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:11 PM

3. Actually

The entire purpose of the process was to ensure that the removal of a president required the support of his "friends", not just his opponents. In every case, the failure or success of the efforts were driven by the support, or lack thereof, of the supporters of the president. Nixon resigned because he lost the support. Clinton survived because he maintained support of the democrats and actually of 10 republicans as well. Johnson survived because the republicans at the time didn't build sufficient support.

I suspect Pelosi would be more favorable towards these efforts if support among a sufficient minority of republicans could be built.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:13 PM

4. K&R, impeachment doesn't mean removal. The party of the impeachment has never fared well in ...

... controlling government post impeachment either.

The only way Red Don wins 2020 is to cheat

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 02:57 AM

28. and he has already told us he will do so.

and nothing is being done about election security.

McConnell stopped a bill from reaching the floor.

How many times and in how many ways do we get suckered in 2020?

Stay tuned.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 04:02 AM

29. +1,

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:20 PM

5. A serious problem is "if" he were impeached and not removed, and as usual the senate does

nothing during any of the processes, he will be emboldened on steroids. My wish would be that he loses the election and then the legal processes take care of him. I guess that is the right approach. I'm with whatever Speaker Pelosi decides.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:26 PM

6. why would he be emboldened? All of his crimes will have been laid out for everyone to see

and being impeached itself is a failure, not a success. Not being removed would be a historic non-event, since, again, it has never happened.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:40 PM

8. I doubt his supporters care. To them he is a great leader, and others use him as best they can.

Most of us, I doubt, know all of the inner workings and ramifications that Pelosi knows, so I'm with whatever her decision is. To date, he has been Teflon Don, little seems to stick.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 12:50 PM

9. A majority of House members do not support impeachment and the American people do not support

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:43 PM

21. But, but...we want DRAMA!!!!

So what if trump uses it to get reelected. It will make us feel good. (Mainly because we don't really know what impeachment means.)

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:04 PM

12. Slow walk the march to impeachment

Get the evidence out there, develop the record. That's what Congress did in the 1970s with Nixon. By the end, even Nixon's closest allies could see he was cornered and advised him to get out of Dodge. We need to do the same thing with Trump, and it's not going to be quick, it's not going to be easy. If you're looking for quick and easy, buy a packet of Top Ramen.

If the Senate fails to convict and remove Trump after the House impeaches him, that will be on the Senate. Let all the Republicans running for re-election in 2020 explain to their constituents why they're so attached to Trump, and why the damning evidence against him wasn't persuasive.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:17 PM

13. for the slow walk to work, it needs to begin

and soon. Ramen not withstanding.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 05:50 PM

14. We risk a number of moderate/swing seats going for impeachment without 20 GOP senate votes

Article of Impeachment are a stunt. Right now the polling shows only 27% favor an impeachment inquiry which is a far cry from actual article of impeachment. That number is up 10% percent from the prior polling which is some movement. 27% is not sufficient to win a congressional seat. Many moderate democrats are worried and for good reason. Right now it is my understanding that only 60+ house democrats favor an impeachment inquiry and that is not close to half of the caucus.

Moderate democrats have reason to worry

Rep. Collin Peterson (D-MN) will entertain the idea of impeaching President Trump when heís sure enough votes exist in the GOP-controlled Senate to convict him. Which is to say, not anytime soon.

ďWeíre not anywhere close,Ē Peterson told The Daily Beast as he exited the House floor on Tuesday. Heís been pressing his colleagues in the House Democratic caucus to recognize that this simple fact should put impeachment fever to bed, for now. But he says he hasnít had much luck.....

But political concerns clearly are a factor for Democratic moderates and the leadership that is closely following their re-election prospects. Pelosi, for starters, has fed the idea that Trump would welcome impeachment because it would fire up his base heading into the 2020 election. Impeachment proponents scoff at that argument, stressing that historical data isnít conclusive that the public rallies to the president under fire. But polling data tends to show that the country right now isnít enamored with the idea. A new survey from a Michigan-based pollster found in that key swing state, over 41 percent of voters strongly oppose impeachment, while 27 percent strongly supported.

The two seats that we flipped in Texas would likely be lost if we file articles of impeachment and trump is vindicated by a GOP controlled Senate.

I want to pick up additional house seats this term and not lose seats. Lizzie and Collin are both good people and it would be a shame to lose these House members. I have been on the phone with both of them (dialing for dollar calls) and they are class people. Collin was with Marc Elias' firm and was involved in the 2016 voter protection efforts.

I support Nancy Pelosi's position here. I also support calling witnesses to testify bout the Mueller report and seeing if we can get the polling to shift on the percentage of Americans who support an impeachment inquiry (which is a far cry from Article of Impeachment).

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 12:04 PM

15. The Senate never even votes on Democratc legislation passed in the house either,

So are they never supposed to even try to do their jobs anymore?
Same thing with impeachment, but then we will have a bigger platform to make people aware of how McConnell and the GOP operate.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 06:44 PM

16. There are many people declaring what "will happen" if... Good luck at predicting the future.

Almost no one thought Trump would be elected. We cannot predict the future. We must do the best we can with the skills and knowledge we have. I think that is what Dems are trying to do. It is an ongoing struggle and discussion. I wish "us" good luck, wisdom, and good judgment.

And as they say, (more or less), preparation is the source of good luck.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 07:09 PM

17. "Can't we, for once, really hurt Donald Trump?"

Impeachment will hurt him personally, but more importantly it will hurt him at the polls.

Far too many voters have no idea how damning the Mueller report really is -- and there will be much more besides that.

Strongly and compellingly presented, impeachment will also hurt the Republican Party when the Senate refuses to do its duty by removing this criminal.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #17)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:49 PM

22. Just how will all of these people who don't know

what is happening come to knowledge of trump's crimes? What magic wand to you have to make anyone testify? Why do you think that the White House will suddenly become moral and begin testifying? Who is going to make them?

Meanwhile, what do you think trump rallies will feature?

There will be no evidence brought before the public in the impeachment proceedings. There are those who know what a crook trump is. Some of them want him gone, others don't care what he does. There are those who don't know. They don't know because they don't care.

trump and his lawyers want impeachement. What a great distraction from his failures.

Hell. There is only a slim chance that defeating him ins 2020 will remove him from office.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 10:31 PM

23. Impeachment will be headline news

It will be must-see TV, with evidence brought before the public in the impeachment proceedings. What many were formerly unaware of will become much more common knowledge.

You wrote:
"Meanwhile, what do you think trump rallies will feature? "

Totally irrelevant. Doesn't matter one bit. Not even remotely. People who are swayed by Trump's tirades and gesticulations at his rallies will not change their minds regardless of what the Democrats do or don't do regarding impeachment.

You wrote:
"Hell. There is only a slim chance that defeating him ins 2020 will remove him from office."

In that case, I have a better plan than impeachment:
Democrats should hide under their desks, or seek shelter in caves, or flee the country.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:47 PM

39. Yes, it will. It will lead to trump's reelection.

What evidence? Why do you think that the people who are not testifying now will suddenly become patriotic heroes and begin lining up to testify to congress? Those who do not know what trump is will not be watching. There will be football and some housewives and bachelors. All they know is that the mean old Democrats are beating up on the president, who will use the attempts to get witnesses to testify as the reason not to have witnesses testify.

I'm glad you get to live in a place where all of your neighbors are thinking individuals concerned about what happens to others. You don't have to meet the slobbering hoards who love everything trump does.

The trump rallies are not irrelevant. it will keep his base charged. As you say the hearings will not change their minds, only stiffen their resolve.

Your idea that the only alternative to using brains and strategy to remove this blight from office is to thump your chest and bluster and stomp you feet. Your method is to show how really tough you are. That will make you feel really good. It won't remove trump. It won't take back the senate. I'll take the route that involves actually working for what I want rather than demanding that others do the job. I'll be polling, canvassing, donating, talking to the idiot fence sitters like I think the have a brain. I would like to shout at them and tell them how dumb they are, but I can't do that and get them to vote correctly. I'll take one for the team. I'll work and suffer fools so that others can just keep demanding an instant fix.

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:36 PM

43. Great post!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 08:27 PM

18. No impeachment,

no white house.

We will lose the election in 2020 if the house does not impeach.

The imperial orange asshole will skate with all his crimes and he will be president another 4 years.

For those that don't wan't impeachment, have some fun with that.

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Response to warmfeet (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:11 PM

20. Failure to at least open an impeachment inquiry will significantly suppress the youth vote

I guarantee it.

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Response to warmfeet (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 10:34 PM

24. If the Dems don't impeach

They will have exonerated Trump even though the Mueller report did not.

They will look spineless, and will not motivate souls to the polls.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Jun 20, 2019, 09:10 PM

19. Cowards go home- the Constitution needs our best and bravest to defend it

If you keep your powder dry long enough, someone's bound to come along and piss in it.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 02:18 AM

25. Impeachment Inquiry

 

Most legal experts believe issuing subpoenas and asking for rulings from the courts under an impeachment inquiry would most likely be beneficial in speeding up the subpoena process and court rulings. Democrats can string out the inquiry for as long as they wish and not even vote on articles of impeachment if that is what they decide. If, by close to the election, public opinion is strongly in favor then vote on it. If it gets to the senate it will be too late for them to have a trial. Or maybe overwhelming evidence and public support by then will lead them to convict. Either way dems win.

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Response to elevator48 (Reply #25)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 12:19 PM

47. Who is "most legal experts?" Can you specify where you heard that? (nt)

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 02:36 AM

26. All the...

Political calculations about this...

Itís about the oath congress takes. We are supposed to be a nation where the rule of law matters. Yet congress is sitting back allowing dt to break those laws repeatedly. He should have been impeached on the Emoluments issues alone already.

The only way any of his criminality is going to come to light is by impeachment. He has/is successfully stone walled everything congress has tried to do. It is time to impeach. Put a big bright light on all he has done / is doing in front of TV cameras. Once this information is out and known I think we would see a rapidly growing support for his removal.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 02:36 AM

27. Impeachment will be nothing more than an exercise. Yes, bring all his crimes, corruption, and

cruelty to light.
Better we spend political capital on exposing what atrocities are occurring in the implementation of
this administrations sadistic and deadly immigration program, or rather, concentration camp program, as folks here have educated me to believe it is. Expose and take action.
Meanwhile GOTV!
If he canít be removed, and he canít, go forward with the do-ables.
Shred the emperorís clothes a piece at a time until his sadism, ineptitude, sick bigotry, and betrayal stands naked before the world.
This, Trumpís public exposure as fiend and fraud will take down the Republican party with him.

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #27)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:33 AM

33. but he will be able to go ahead with the doables.. the GOP senate will grant him all his wishes

...i feel getting control of the senate is of utmost import as it wont matter if Dems elect the next prez will be..if we dont control ALL of congress we dont control nuthun' and thats exactly what will get done. nuthun'

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:16 AM

30. we have ONE chance..we cant blow it.

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Response to samnsara (Reply #30)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:27 AM

31. this. It's weird how some can't accept that. nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:27 AM

32. You don't even have enough votes in the HOUSE, but keep on

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Response to Baltimike (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:53 AM

35. Nonsense. If it comes to an impeachment vote in the House, the House will vote to impeach

and since all it takes is a majority to impeach, the Asshole will be impeached.

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Response to mtnsnake (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:40 PM

44. You skipped a couple of steps. Before voting to impeach, the House must vote to open an inquiry.

There aren't enough votes for that. Not even close. Yet.

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Response to Baltimike (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:49 AM

36. the investigation for the impeachment process will guarantee

the vote is there. Not today, probably, but within a short time after investigations with teeth begin.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #36)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:58 AM

37. we agree on this. nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:43 AM

34. It is a reason. Impeachment doesn't remove the Trumpass.

So why give him a leg up and have that pump up his goons making it harder to beat the fucker.

I am sorry but with our system he still has a shot at winning and impeachment hearing or impeachment ainít going to help. They will hurt as it revolves around him and gives his fans more reason to vote.

So if you donít mind letís do the one thing that actually removes the bastard from office. Vote him the fuck out and stop bashing Democrats.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #34)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:41 PM

46. So simple and so true. Dont know why so many just want the vengeance that gives trump ammo

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 02:52 PM

38. If we don't impose limits on him now through the impeachment process,

then, even if we vote him out next election, good luck with the next R president, or R controlled House or Senate. The R's will know for certain that they can get away with ANYTHING, and that NO ONE will even bother with trying to impose any limits on them. We will have one large, powerful party that knows it doesn't live under the rule of law, and will be operating without breaks.

Call me crazy, but I don't think that would be a healthy thing for our country or our democracy.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:50 PM

40. How will the impeachment process impose limits on trump?

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #38)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:40 PM

45. What limits would the impeachment process impose on him?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 10:10 AM

41. Clyburn says they'll impeach him eventually, Pelosi says no

I hope she knows what she's doing

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:31 PM

42. Impeachment process

I know Senate want vote him out. But get it all out there.

It will still be going on by the election. We will vote them all out.

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