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Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:32 AM

I can't resist the fundies at the abortion clinic here in Richmond

So, like every morning I was walking my two dogs and THIS time, I swear, I wasn't going to get into anything with those kooks, but one of them shoved a Jesus brochure at me.

So, I asked him: "and if I don't believe anything in this brochure what happens to me?"

He: "Then you won't have eternal life with him."

Goodheart: "Is there a hell? Do I go to hell?"

He: "Sadly yes."

Goodheart: "And what about these abortions... you call them unborn children, I call them fetusus. Do they have souls? Where do those souls go when they're aborted?"

He: "They are innocents who go to Heaven."

Goodheart: "What you're telling me is that by being born some of these souls won't believe in Jesus and will go to Hell. Isn't it better for them to be aborted?"

He: "No!"

Goodheart: "You don't make sense, but thanks for the chat."


66 replies, 7243 views

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Reply I can't resist the fundies at the abortion clinic here in Richmond (Original post)
Goodheart Jun 2019 OP
Fla Dem Jun 2019 #1
3catwoman3 Jun 2019 #5
Fla Dem Jun 2019 #28
slater71 Jun 2019 #2
blueinredohio Jun 2019 #4
3catwoman3 Jun 2019 #7
amb123 Jun 2019 #27
greymattermom Jun 2019 #63
underpants Jun 2019 #3
Cartoonist Jun 2019 #6
Goodheart Jun 2019 #8
pangaia Jun 2019 #10
Hekate Jun 2019 #61
ProudLib72 Jun 2019 #9
Goodheart Jun 2019 #11
ProudLib72 Jun 2019 #14
Goodheart Jun 2019 #15
TygrBright Jun 2019 #26
3catwoman3 Jun 2019 #49
ProudLib72 Jun 2019 #52
3catwoman3 Jun 2019 #57
ProudLib72 Jun 2019 #58
brooklynite Jun 2019 #17
Goodheart Jun 2019 #20
brooklynite Jun 2019 #23
Goodheart Jun 2019 #24
Javaman Jun 2019 #12
Blue_playwright Jun 2019 #13
Merlot Jun 2019 #16
rusty quoin Jun 2019 #21
Delmette2.0 Jun 2019 #39
3catwoman3 Jun 2019 #50
hunter Jun 2019 #18
AlexSFCA Jun 2019 #19
47of74 Jun 2019 #22
jmbar2 Jun 2019 #25
Ohiogal Jun 2019 #29
jmowreader Jun 2019 #30
mwb970 Jun 2019 #31
stopbush Jun 2019 #32
Goodheart Jun 2019 #35
TlalocW Jun 2019 #38
stopbush Jun 2019 #41
uriel1972 Jun 2019 #47
AllaN01Bear Jun 2019 #33
vlyons Jun 2019 #34
Goodheart Jun 2019 #36
VOX Jun 2019 #51
Goodheart Jun 2019 #54
VOX Jun 2019 #56
OMGWTF Jun 2019 #37
TlalocW Jun 2019 #40
Goodheart Jun 2019 #43
lastlib Jun 2019 #60
Soph0571 Jun 2019 #42
lunatica Jun 2019 #44
EndGOPPropaganda Jun 2019 #45
tiptonic Jun 2019 #46
KentuckyWoman Jun 2019 #48
sellitman Jun 2019 #53
Goodheart Jun 2019 #55
Blue_true Jun 2019 #59
gordianot Jun 2019 #62
Vinca Jun 2019 #64
LittleGirl Jun 2019 #65
Ligyron Jun 2019 #66

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:44 AM

1. Your logic is unassailable!

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Response to Fla Dem (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:04 AM

5. That is a superb rejoinder.

I may have occasion to borrow that.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:43 AM

28. Please feel free!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:53 AM

2. Ask them this. I did once.

I ran into a group of people one day just like this. I asked the people that were there, if you stop just one person from going into this clinic and aborting the baby, which one of you will volunteer to raise that child from birth to being an adult? I asked for a show of hands and all I got was stares like I had three heads, I said I thought so, and walked away.

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Response to slater71 (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:59 AM

4. I said something similar to that to a lady at work one day.

No response from her either.

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Response to slater71 (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:06 AM

7. And THAT is the perfect question.

Unless these folks are prepared to step in and take responsibility for raising all these babies that they insist be born, they need to butt out and mind their own effing business.

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Response to slater71 (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:38 AM

27. The perfect STFU to the "Pro-Life" crowd.

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Response to slater71 (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 18, 2019, 06:53 AM

63. How about asking them if they are willing to pay increased taxes to build more schools.

And if they are willing to let the new schools be built on their street. Land would have to be acquired for construction immediately. It takes time to permit and build new school buildings.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:57 AM

3. In the west end I saw some last summer protesting

but the building they were in front of is no longer open. As far as I can tell the building is empty. There is a old faded sign that says something about women’s health but I’ve never seen any cars in the parking lot.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:05 AM

6. Not really funny

Just a little funny.

There was a Planned Parenthood office in my town. Someone planted a very small explosive one night. It went off, but did very little damage. No one was there, so no one was hurt. The funny thing is, they planted it on the building next door.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #6)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:10 AM

8. Which brings to mind another point I've made to them in the past

If they REALLY believed there was organized murder going on inside the clinic they'd be doing a lot more than praying.

If I believed there was a building where children are brought for slaughter I think I'd take up arms myself.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:17 AM

10. DON'T give them any ideas !!!

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 18, 2019, 01:18 AM

61. They are, in fact, armed and dangerous. They doxx people.They stalk the children of clinic employees

... They murder doctors and in blowing up clinics they have maimed and blinded a nurse for life.

The ones who don't actually commit murder and vandalism glorify those who do, by hiding them when on the run and by visiting them if and when they go to prison for their crimes.

These fanatics are not nice people.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:16 AM

9. Unbaptized babies go straight to purgatory

Everyone knows this. That is why they used "The Squirt" (think of a turkey baster) for intrauterine baptism just in case back in the day.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:19 AM

11. What a racket!

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:28 AM

14. Well, they stopped doing that a little while ago

In my research on the topic, I found the Church had changed their position entirely. But here is what they used back in the day:



Mauriceau's Intrauterine Baptismal Syringe

•Early opinions of the Church in Rome and teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas that the fetus could not be baptized in-utero required some sort of solution. Consider also that this require amniotomy so that holy water actually came in contact with the fetus.
•In 1573 the Catholic Church in Frankfurt empowered midwives to perform intrauterine baptisms. - Pence, Midwifery & Childbirth
•Accordingly, in consideration of the great many instances whereby attempts were made to introduce all manner of substances into the vagina or uterus it is conceivable that in anticipation of eminent fetal demise that one might consider baptism of the fetus in-utero by means of a specially designed syringe.
A “Syringe for injection into the womb” http://obgynmedicalantiques.com/fetal-baptism

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:34 AM

15. Good lord. :)

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:26 AM

26. Looks like an effective tool for inducing saline abortions...

Not that I would recommend them- not the best procedure. But still in use for some cases.

interestedly,
Bright

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:45 PM

49. I was hoping this was satire. Apparently not. Jesus H.

And, just to nitpick with the original writer - "in anticipation of eminent fetal demise." Would that be terminating the pregnancy of a future man of the cloth?

Obviously, that should be imminent.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #49)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:03 PM

52. Nope, not satire unfortunately

This is what happens when giving birth is exceptionally dangerous and you have to take the baby's soul into consideration as well. It's amazing what people used to get up to a few hundred years ago. I'm sure that, in another hundred years, people will look back on us with as much incredulity.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #52)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:42 PM

57. I look on us with incredulity...

...right now, altho more for political reasons than medical.

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Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #57)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:46 PM

58. Political and medical reasons converge in the southern states

Yes, I look on us with incredulity too.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:39 AM

17. No...they went to "limbo"

...before the Catholic Church cleaned up the messy theology.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:47 AM

20. Purgatory is a clean up?

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:57 AM

23. Purgatory was presumed to be a place for people old enough to be considered "mature"...

...for whom a heaven/hell assignment wasn't obvious. Limbo was a place for people "tainted" by original sin, but not mature enough to have sinned themselves.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #23)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:02 AM

24. Sure, but there's nothing "clean" about that, either. :)

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:20 AM

12. when fundies say to me, "I'll pray for you", I respond, "I'll think for you"...

I've said that a number of times to fundies going door to door pushing their bullshit in my neighborhood.

the surprised and very indigent looks I get in return are priceless.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:25 AM

13. I gotta remember that one. In fact

It might make its way into a play..

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Response to Javaman (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:34 AM

16. I'll think for you...because you obviously don't.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:48 AM

21. Ha

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Response to Javaman (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 05:25 PM

39. I have always wondered what do they pray for me to have?

I haven't screwed up the courage or outrage to just ask them. I have a friend who instead of saying good by or good night, would say I'm praying for you. WTF!! When my son died, my own brother put me on his church's prayer list. Again, WTF!! I know it would offend them and put them in a tight spot, but they have no concern about me being offended.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:47 PM

50. Ooooh - that is very good.

Very good indeed!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:46 AM

18. You'd do just as well to whip out your magic wand...

... and yell in your most authoritative voice,

RIDDIKULUS!





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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:46 AM

19. logic won't work on those people

any religion is fundamentally incompatible with rational thinking. Those are opposite of each other.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:52 AM

22. facepalm

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:22 AM

25. Maybe you can bring your own brochures for adopting foster kids.


There are approximately 5,000 children in foster care in Virginia. Of these children, 1,700 have the goal of adoption, and more than 600 of are waiting for adoptive families. These children are from all cultural and socio-economic backgrounds. They are frequently school age, 5 to 14 years old, and part of sibling groups.
https://www.adoptuskids.org/adoption-and-foster-care/how-to-adopt-and-foster/state-information/virginia

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:51 AM

29. Certainly a big part of it is an issue of who would support these children if they were born ......

But ...... if a woman doesn't want to be pregnant and deliver a baby, that is enough reason for her not to have to. Being pregnant isn't a walk in the park, and childbirth causes many more deaths than abortion, which causes zero deaths if done in a clinic.

I guess maternal deaths don't count to them as long as that baby is delivered.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 11:59 AM

30. Okay, figure this out

If every church has a hell, everyone who’s not in that church goes to hell, and no one is in more than twenty or thirty churches at the same time anyway, would it not be correct to assume everyone winds up in hell no matter how much of their money they gave to the church?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:04 PM

31. Nothing these people say makes rational sense.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:09 PM

32. Point out to them that god is history's most-notorious abortionist.

How so?

Well, god designed the human being and its reproductive system. Yet 25% of pregnancies in the USA do not result in a live birth. That has nothing to do with people electing to have an abortion. It has to do with the way the human body deals with pregnancy. It has to do with stillbirths and all of the other things that can happen to terminate a pregnancy without any outside intervention.

Yep, god is an abortionist...by design.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:45 PM

35. That would have taken too long. :)

Already, one of the volunteer security guards (hats off to those people) tugged at my shoulder and said to me "nothing you say will make a difference to them".... which of course is true, but the guard, I think, was looking out for my safety. Who knows what those kooks are capable of.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 05:14 PM

38. I've asked Catholics to consider the following

Using the rhythm method as the Pope wants, if you're not perfectly well-timed on when you have sex, then there is the possibility of lingering sperm at the start of the no-sex time and then if you jump the gun and have sex sooner than what you should, or the woman's body doesn't have Swiss-like clockwork precision, the egg might still be there. Either way you have old sperm with a new egg or new sperm and an old egg, neither of which bodes well for a resulting zygote, which probably won't be able to implant itself on the uterine wall so it will be expelled. But make no mistake, contraception has resulted. Now think of the millions of Catholics who do rely - at least partially - on the rhythm method. How often does this scenario take place? The rhythm method could be behind the natural abortion of millions of fertilized eggs.

TlalocW

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Response to TlalocW (Reply #38)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 05:33 PM

41. Until 200 years ago, the RCC promoted the dogma of ensoulment,

Ie: the idea that the soul didn’t enter the body until 90 days into the pregnancy. Until that point, the fetus was considered a vegetable. While abortion was not encouraged, it was understood and accepted if performed within that 90-day window.

Then, the RCC saw the political advantage of dropping that dogma, and the rest is the anti-choice history that ensued.

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Response to TlalocW (Reply #38)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:17 PM

47. From Billy Connolly

I'd like to thank the Roman Catholic Church for the Rhythm Method, without which I would never have been born.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:22 PM

33. ive been asking that question for years .

a friend of mine has a metal coat hanger in his car. we have some of these who stand on a sidewalk and he shows it to them.(backalley abortion) i love this persons logic.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:33 PM

34. Nothing about Christianity makes sense to me

Starting with the nonsense of a virgin birth

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Response to vlyons (Reply #34)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:48 PM

36. I like their explanation of who Jesus was...

"He was fully man and fully God".

Can somebody be fully a man and fully a tortoise, even when they're mutually exclusive? Well, Jesus could, apparently.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:52 PM

51. And he had the distinct advantage of being the boss's son.

So...nepotism must be divine.

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Response to VOX (Reply #51)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:07 PM

54. And he got to be God forever after his "ultimate sacrifice".

And he knew it ahead of time.

Seems to me that a mother who aborts a baby to send him/her straight to heaven, and thus risk her own soul, is making a far more admirable sacrifice.

Religion.... I hate it. Can you tell?














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Response to Goodheart (Reply #54)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:22 PM

56. Not too crazy about it myself!

Because for 2000 years (give or take a month), power-hungry jerks have avoided (or just removed) ALL the peace-and-love, zen-like aspects. The deliberately leave out the good stuff, and just keep threatening you with damning your soul for all eternity. Not my cup of tea.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 04:39 PM

37. Ask, "But what if the fetus you save is gay?"

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 05:26 PM

40. I thought this up, and I'm sure many others have too

I didn't think much of it when I did, but then I saw an article on a guy who says he uses this argument to great advantage.

You propose a hypothetical where you are in a burning room. One one side there is one child, and on the other are 10 children - you don't know anything about them. You can't save them all. You have to choose the 1 or the 10, and you somehow know that either choice will be met with 100% success. It may be heartbreaking, but you have to make the choice. Which do you choose? They'll choose 10 of course. Ask again with five, then three, then two. Ask them why they made those choices. Doesn't really matter what they say. Now ask them the original question, one child on one side, and ten on the other. Which do they choose. They'll say 10. Now say, the ten children are fertilized eggs inside test tubes in a container that keeps them safe and viable but won't survive the fire. The room you're in is at a clinic that does in vitro fertilization. Which do they save now? If they're not totally pissed off and storming away from you, they'll say the one. Why, though? Aren't the fertilized eggs children in their eyes? Aren't they as worthy when it was 10 actual children? At what point in the development of the fertilized eggs will they switch to rescuing them? A week? Two weeks? Three? A month? etc.

TlalocW

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Response to TlalocW (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 07:31 PM

43. Those whackos would probably save the embryos just to make a point.

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Response to TlalocW (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:13 PM

60. I see the logic, but these are fundies....

If you could reason with fundies, they wouldn't be fundies. They are impervious to logic. Otherwise they'd be on every street corner preaching evolution of species.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 06:50 PM

42. Bravo! n/t

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 07:38 PM

44. Sometime try asking them why they think god needs their help

in anything regarding his children, who he created.


Another fact of life is that god has a 100% success rate in killing all of us.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:09 PM

45. I'll give you some other things to say!

The Bible says that a fetus isn’t alive till it draws breath.
Gen 2:.7
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2014/3/19/1285933/-Bible-Life-Begins-at-Breath-Not-Conception

Republicans CHANGED the Bible in the 1970s to get Christians to vote for GOP billionaires and hurt themselves.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/03/22/mischief-follows-in-partisan-bible-translations/

Jesus would be a Democrat today.
Republican leaders think Christians are “useful idiots”.
http://www.chicagonow.com/politics-now/2017/12/the-gop-despises-the-trump-base-and-so-does-trump/

Republican billionaires use Christians to hurt children by taking away their health care. Christians who vote for Republicans are not just useful idiots. They’re going to hell.

Don’t be a useful idiot. Follow Jesus.
Vote for Democrats.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:13 PM

46. Catholic School

Sounds like, the good old Catholic school religion class dilemma, 'a woman drives her car in a lake, with her baby in the back seat. They r both drowning, u can only save one, with one do u save'? U save the woman, because she has sinned. She will go to 'hell', for her sins. The baby will not go to hell, because it has not sinned. Interesting stuff, huh!!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 08:44 PM

48. THAT is one of the most beautiful traps I have ever read.

I bow to your genius.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:06 PM

53. My father

My father took lessons at winning arguments many years ago. I think it was part of his toastmasters training.It drove me crazy at times but I did grow to admire his talents once I realised resistance was futile.

Needless to say He could take any side of an argument and win it hands down. Even more so if he argued with something he believed in. He was very logical being a Chemist and scientist and could rattle your bones in an argument. Quit a talent.

We use to have a plethora of Jehovah Witnesses come around until one day he got disgusted with their inability to take no for an answer. He invited them inside very cordially, made them coffee and proceeded to convert them to Judaism. They were no match for him and after a half hour or more they excused themselves and made a beeline for the front door.

Word must have gotten out and when they returned to our neighborhood they skipped our house and never bothered us again.

I think you would of loved my Dad.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #53)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:14 PM

55. Sounds like I would have!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:48 PM

59. Well played, well played!!!!!

I had one try the "Do you know Jesus?" No. "You know you're going to die one day don't you?" Yes, I am not afraid of death. End of conversation.

What those people don't realize is their God gave people the capacity to figure out how to do everything they see as sinful. Their God made LGBTQ people. Logically, if their God allowed people to figure how to do something they call sinful and their God made LGBTQ people, then either their God wants those things or their God is a mind games playing psycho.

I honestly believe that modern religion descended from Ancient Greece, where there were Gods that could be good to people one moment, then against them the next. So Satan and the other ruler of hell (per early accounts, there were two rulers of hell, Satan being one of them and the lesser of the two) would be bad gods subordinate to one lord god, like the gods of Ancient Greece were all subordinate to Zeus.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2019, 06:12 AM

62. I have one simple line I use with all obnoxious in your face fundies.

This works for all religious fascist in your face Bible thumpers no matter the issue. Are you going to heaven? If the answer is yes then I prefer somewhere else with your presence that place would be hell. I guarantee this to shut them up it has never failed me.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2019, 07:13 AM

64. It's fun to mess with the crazy Jesus people.

I got a door knocker to admit the Bible was made up.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2019, 07:21 AM

65. My response is

If life is so sacred, why do we all die?

Or, are you in favor of criminalizing miscarriages? What happens when a woman miscarries? Do you try her for murder?

Or, are you in favor of birth control and shouldn’t that be free?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2019, 10:05 PM

66. Doing God's work would be aborting as many as possible.

That way they go straight to Heaven skipping the whole vale of tears we suffer through.

But there again, logic was never the Fundie's strong point.

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