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Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:31 AM

My friend is still upset from the last election debate where HRC let Trump stalk her from

behind as she was speaking. "She shudda turned around and said "WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? SIT DOWN!"

He's replaying all this stuff in his mind (a good Dem, he was a shop steward for his plumbers' union). I said I don't think ANY female Dem candidate would allow that now!

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Reply My friend is still upset from the last election debate where HRC let Trump stalk her from (Original post)
CTyankee Jun 16 OP
malaise Jun 16 #1
Bettie Jun 16 #2
dameatball Jun 16 #7
octoberlib Jun 16 #8
demmiblue Jun 16 #12
treestar Jun 16 #24
dalton99a Jun 16 #34
Hortensis Jun 16 #50
obamanut2012 Jun 16 #116
Hortensis Jun 16 #122
trueblue2007 Jun 16 #64
GoCubsGo Jun 16 #72
wryter2000 Jun 16 #108
sop Jun 16 #69
BlancheSplanchnik Jun 16 #74
Talitha Jun 16 #117
BlancheSplanchnik Jun 16 #121
Talitha Jun 16 #118
Demit Jun 16 #3
EffieBlack Jun 16 #16
greatauntoftriplets Jun 16 #40
Hortensis Jun 16 #49
Bettie Jun 16 #80
Tipperary Jun 16 #84
loyalsister Jun 16 #111
Demit Jun 16 #123
gordianot Jun 16 #4
Chin music Jun 16 #5
octoberlib Jun 16 #6
marylandblue Jun 16 #9
irisblue Jun 16 #43
marylandblue Jun 16 #46
fallrey Jun 16 #62
marylandblue Jun 16 #68
mercuryblues Jun 16 #78
marylandblue Jun 16 #83
Tipperary Jun 16 #86
marylandblue Jun 16 #96
Caliman73 Jun 16 #70
StarfishSaver Jun 16 #73
marylandblue Jun 16 #98
Caliman73 Jun 17 #124
lunatica Jun 16 #10
CTyankee Jun 16 #21
lunatica Jun 16 #35
irisblue Jun 16 #45
Scarsdale Jun 16 #63
EleanorR Jun 16 #81
CTyankee Jun 16 #82
EleanorR Jun 16 #85
CTyankee Jun 16 #88
EleanorR Jun 16 #90
CTyankee Jun 16 #92
cwydro Jun 16 #120
treestar Jun 16 #22
Metatron Jun 16 #66
marylandblue Jun 16 #104
treestar Jun 16 #106
marylandblue Jun 16 #107
demmiblue Jun 16 #11
EffieBlack Jun 16 #17
mcar Jun 16 #31
CTyankee Jun 16 #55
Zambero Jun 16 #13
EffieBlack Jun 16 #18
Zambero Jun 16 #29
EffieBlack Jun 16 #42
EffieBlack Jun 16 #14
mcar Jun 16 #33
Takket Jun 16 #39
Hoyt Jun 16 #15
Zambero Jun 16 #30
treestar Jun 16 #19
CTyankee Jun 16 #25
pecosbob Jun 16 #20
tanyev Jun 16 #23
LuvNewcastle Jun 16 #26
sop Jun 16 #67
smirkymonkey Jun 16 #58
TreasonousBastard Jun 16 #27
mnhtnbb Jun 16 #54
Me. Jun 16 #28
InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 16 #32
EffieBlack Jun 16 #44
treestar Jun 16 #53
InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 16 #112
StarfishSaver Jun 16 #119
ehrnst Jun 17 #125
redstatebluegirl Jun 16 #36
JHB Jun 16 #37
delisen Jun 16 #38
SMC22307 Jun 16 #41
Tipperary Jun 16 #87
Hav Jun 16 #47
fallrey Jun 16 #61
Baltimike Jun 16 #48
Paladin Jun 16 #51
StarfishSaver Jun 16 #52
CTyankee Jun 16 #56
Tipperary Jun 16 #89
CTyankee Jun 16 #91
StarfishSaver Jun 16 #94
CTyankee Jun 16 #95
StarfishSaver Jun 16 #97
CTyankee Jun 16 #99
StarfishSaver Jun 16 #100
cally Jun 16 #57
Niagara Jun 16 #59
greymattermom Jun 16 #60
MustLoveBeagles Jun 16 #65
stillcool Jun 16 #71
llmart Jun 16 #75
StarfishSaver Jun 16 #76
cwydro Jun 16 #101
MrsCoffee Jun 16 #109
Drunken Irishman Jun 16 #77
Hekate Jun 16 #79
Runningdawg Jun 16 #102
Totally Tunsie Jun 16 #113
sprinkleeninow Jun 16 #115
marlakay Jun 16 #93
cwydro Jun 16 #103
Runningdawg Jun 16 #105
NBachers Jun 16 #110
sprinkleeninow Jun 16 #114
NewJeffCT Jun 17 #126
Maru Kitteh Jun 17 #127
Proud Liberal Dem Jun 17 #128

Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:36 AM

1. I was pissed

I mentioned it on the debate thread

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:36 AM

2. Frankly, the moderators should have shut

that crap down.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:38 AM

7. Yes indeed. They let it happen.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:39 AM

8. Yes, they should have. They let him

stalk her.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:43 AM

12. This. n/t

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:56 AM

24. +1 they could have told him to go back to his space

and follow the rules.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:19 AM

34. +1

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:44 PM

50. He wasn't nearly as close as the camera view suggested.

Imo, all this noise over that is overreaction. In other words, silly.

As for those grabbing this chance as always to blame Hillary, or just as bad to cast her as a passive victim, as if she didn't do superbly on that stage, imo silly is too nice a word.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #50)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:58 PM

116. No, it isn;t -- it is just another time when ryles are too good for him

It is not "overreaction" -- what you are saying is UNDERREACTION.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #116)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:29 PM

122. You know, Obama's still around, writing, talking.

Plus Facebook and Twitter. His decency and good sense are still with us.

https://twitter.com/BarackObama?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:32 PM

64. Hillary should have turned, glared at him & said loudly, stop stalking me U pervert,

get away from me !


If he got weird .... rude or violent, should have slapped him across the face.

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Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #64)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:33 PM

72. That kind of reaction would only draw accusations of paranoia and man-hating.

He would have loved it if he had provoked that kind of reaction from her. Better that she blew him off and ignored him. He hates being ignored. I would prefer that she just glanced back, rolled her eyes, and shook her head in disgust, while continuing on with her point.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #72)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:35 PM

108. Or...

That smile and shimmy thing she did when he said something particularly stupid.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:20 PM

69. The moderators should have stopped Trump from seating Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broaddrick

and Kathy Shelton in the front rows at the presidential debate. He wanted to bring Jennifer Flowers, but she backed out. Trump is a total sleazeball.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:47 PM

74. This. I couldn't believe everyone pretended nothing was going on here.

Same for the disgusting chair-humping. I could jump through plate glass doors when I think of that. And the cartoonish “badass” squinting. And the stalking. Grrrr

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #74)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 07:12 PM

117. OMG - look how teeny his hands are!



And where'd he get that suit, at a tent shop?

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Response to Talitha (Reply #117)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:32 PM

121. 👏🏾👍🏾😆

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 07:15 PM

118. And they should have cut his mic when it wasn't his turn to speak.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:36 AM

3. Armchair quarterbacks.

 

She made a decision in the moment to ignore him. It wasn't a bad decision—he wanted the attention. She deprived him of a reaction.

I love how people know what they wudda done, lol.

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Response to Demit (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:50 AM

16. EXACTLY!

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Response to Demit (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:44 AM

40. I thought they were letting the world see what creepy fool he is.

And I loved the way that Hillary ignored him like a pesky mosquito.

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Response to Demit (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:37 PM

49. Agree. Agree. Agree.

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Response to Demit (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:08 PM

80. I don't think she made a mistake

I think the moderator should have stopped his antics cold.

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Response to Demit (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:24 PM

84. This. nt

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Response to Demit (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:16 PM

111. It was disturbing to see

And most of us would not know how to respond to something so incomprehensible. I'm sure the situation was far outside of anything she was prepared for.

To fault her for not responding seems like victim blaming.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #111)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:38 PM

123. She handled it with aplomb. She would have been a good president.

 

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:37 AM

4. She should have turned around and clocked him in the face.

But that is hindsight. I seem to remember stories about Bill with a suspicious bruise.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)


Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:37 AM

6. I'm not a violent person but I wanted to slap

the crap out of him.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:41 AM

9. It didn't bother me at the time, but it seems it did hurt Clinton.

No, I don't think any female candidate will let it go this time. Nor would they let go of that "nasty woman" comment.

Especially not Warren, who I can see shifting into a feminist rant that drives the audience wild.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:59 AM

43. "feminist rant"?

Would you clarify that please?

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Response to irisblue (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:01 PM

46. Sometimes rants are good ✊

I saw her get angry about abortion rights. It was glorious.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:20 PM

62. Note what happened to Kamala Harris recently

There is no good response to a potentially threatening male being given access to a female politician when she is speaking publicly. The two situations (Harris, Clinton) were very different, but what upset me and angered me so much is that nothing either did would erase the visual of an out of order and potentially threatening male demonstrating attempted dominance. Fantasies aside, there is no win in either case. Both should have been prevented by the organizers of the events.

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Response to fallrey (Reply #62)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:13 PM

68. Interesting question as to whether a woman can respond effectively.

It's admittedly difficult. I think there needs to be perfect balance between indignation and calm.

Even the most patriarchical societies have occasionally produced powerful women. Queen Elizabeth I is the best known example, but she's not alone. They must have had extraordinary talents to keep men off balance.

If anyone today can do it, Warren can.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #68)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:02 PM

78. Women have to find

the imaginary, narrow line during a campaign and stick to it, so as not to offend anyone. Men get to stalk women on stage, call for chants of lock her up, called them nasty woman, insult their appearance, and more.

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Response to mercuryblues (Reply #78)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:19 PM

83. IMO, the line is not imaginary, it's just very, very narrow and hard to see.

I think Warren may have found it.

"I'm running for President because that's what girls, do."
I think that's a brilliant line.

McConnell said, "Yet, she persisted."
She made him trip over his own privilege.

I don't know what she would do in Hillary's situation and I don't know if it will work. But I'm guessing she has a plan for that.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #68)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:27 PM

86. What?

“Interesting question as to whether a woman can respond effectively.”

Did you mean that to sound like it does???

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #86)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:56 PM

96. Not sure what you think it sounds like.

But in politics, women are always too tough or too weak, too warm or too cold, and so on. Too ambitious or not ambitious enough. Too thinking or too feeling. It happened to Hillary. Lots of women have commented on this problem in their own lives.

I think a handful of women in politics find a balance point that work for them and use it to gain and keep power. Like Nancy Pelosi. Not that she doesn't get criticized for this or that, but she does pretty well overall. It isn't easy, so I have to admire that.

I think Warren may have found the right mix for herself. They are trying to do it to her right now, but so far, they have not succeeded.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:23 PM

70. That doesn't comport with reality.

The reality is that had Hillary Clinton turned around and "shifted into a feminist rant" as you say Warren would do, then it would have been treated in the press as Clinton becoming "emotional" and "loosing control"

That is the nature of Male Privilege and patriarchy. Whatever Clinton chose to do she would have received criticism. Women not standing up for themselves proves they are weak. Women standing up for themselves proves they are crazy and aggressive.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #70)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:39 PM

73. This is nothing but the truth.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #70)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:02 PM

98. Yes, you are correct, that almost certainly would have happened.

But I think a handful of women get around it, in spite of it all. Warren seems to me to be one of those women. But what do I know? She sounds good to me. That's all I can really say.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #98)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:34 AM

124. The future of our country lies in the hands of competent women.

Us men have not done well in many areas and continue making the same mistakes despite ever more dire consequences. I think that the way we get out of this is to accept the very different view points of truly progressive and left leaning women.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:42 AM

10. In an interview later Hillary said she was very aware of what he was doing

As a woman Who is the same age as Hillary I can tell you that we learned decades ago not to show fear. She was ignoring him very deliberately. To acknowledge that she was in any way nervous would make him win. It is also political suicide to look weak or to appear to cower. Any politician, man or woman, would come across as being a coward. It was a choice she made, knowing that if she reacted to him she would come out the loser. And he would have used it to verbally attack her even more.

I get it and would have done the same thing.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:54 AM

21. Not from a position of weakness but from strength. I think my friend was saying that she should

have TOLD him in no uncertain terms that he had to go SIT DOWN!

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:22 AM

35. Yes, but she didn't at the time.

Any woman, all women would second guess themselves. Men probably would too. It was a very strange thing that he did, and awkward and baffling. I know it confused everyone that watched it.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:01 PM

45. Trump knrw what he was doing. His supporters got the message.

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Response to irisblue (Reply #45)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:29 PM

63. John McCain did the same

thing to President Obama. He kept wandering back and forth in camera range while the President was speaking. He looked like an idiot.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:09 PM

81. Do you really think he would have complied?

I don't.

I agree that it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for her.

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Response to EleanorR (Reply #81)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:56 PM

82. Maybe she could have just said she would stop til he got seated. I think the moderator would

have had to step in at that point.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #82)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:25 PM

85. The she would have been criticized for being overly sensitive

And needing the moderator to step in and save her.

The story here should be, trump reduced to distraction and intimidation tactics because he can't debate the issues intelligently.

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Response to EleanorR (Reply #85)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:29 PM

88. Ah, but here's a retort to that:

"I see from your behavior, Mr. Trump, that you can't debate the issues here tonight, you prefer to wander around behind me on the stage. That's too bad. Most folks here came to hear what you had to say and you are disappointing them."

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #88)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:35 PM

90. Then people would have said he rattled her

She did the right thing ignoring him.

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Response to EleanorR (Reply #90)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:38 PM

92. Some people, yes. I, myself, wasn't disturbed by her ignoring him. I was furious with him, tho.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:14 PM

120. Your friend has no standing to tell Hillary Clinton what she "should" or should not do.

Please.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:55 AM

22. And she had to make a choice

He didn't have to make any such choice. Or, he made only the choice to do something stupid/wrong. Instead of judging him for that, we have those judging her for how she handled it!

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Response to treestar (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:51 PM

66. Yep, I agree

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Response to treestar (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:22 PM

104. If you mean me, I most certainly am not judging her.

I'm admiring Warren and a talent she seems to have. At least she seems that way to me. She's already done difficult things. I think she is being underestimated and she is really full of surprises. If I'm right, it will be fun to watch, at least for me. YMMV.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #104)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:25 PM

106. I was agreeing with you

Hillary's choice was to ignore him, and it was a good choice and it there are a few here judging Hillary's handling of it more than they are judging Orange Donny for creating that need to make the choice.

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Response to treestar (Reply #106)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:34 PM

107. Ok, thank you. I know it's a sensitive topic, so I'm trying to mindful of that.

Warren is my second choice, and I really think she could win. I have confidence in her abilities. She's already come back from being written off, which I thought was impossible. I'd hate for misogyny to take down another strong woman.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:42 AM

11. I'm still bothered by the fact that HE stalked HER.

I thought that she handled the situation well.

And I also would have cheered if she had confronted him.

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:51 AM

17. Great point

As usual, the discussion is about how she handled being harassed and stalked, not the fact that that man harassed and stalked her.

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:16 AM

31. This!

Why is the OPs friend blaming HRC for Dotard's boorish behavior.

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Response to mcar (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:00 PM

55. I don't think he was. He was angrier at Trump and wanted him put down hard.

He's never had a harsh word for her. I think he realizes this is "monday morning quarterbacking."

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:44 AM

13. Or just giving him a quick glance

shrugging and motioning in dismissive fashion, and resuming her debate point. Sometimes a bit of effective body language carries the day. I hate to admit this, but during that 2000 debate when Al Gore ventured in close to Bush while staring at him directly, Bush just gave him a quick jerking nod and went about his business. That split second made Gore look like a complete fool, and any merit of actual debate points became secondary. In a very close election, foolishness can become a fatal miscalculation.

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Response to Zambero (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:52 AM

18. It must be nice to be so certain what someone else should do in a specific moment

From the comfort of our Keyboard with three years hindsight

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:10 AM

29. No one can ever claim to be certain

We all love our comfy keyboards and the right to free speech, don't we? But final results tend to speak for themselves, as do the many circumstances that lead up to them. Different actions will contribute to different outcomes. In a real-time debate situation, there is no do-over, although many a candidate would have wished for just that. And as always, life and history are burgeoning with "what ifs".

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Response to Zambero (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:58 AM

42. You think she would have carried Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin if she had turned and told him

to back off?

And if she had done that and still didn’t win the election, people would be saying if only she had kept her cool she would’ve won.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:47 AM

14. And if she'd done that, she'd have been criticized for letting him rattle her, throw her off

her game, getting inside her head, etc. No matter what choice she made, it would have been the wrong one for some people.

This is the quandary that women and minorities consistently find ourselves in when having to deal with micro-aggressions like this. We have to make split-second decisions about how to address them while still doing whatever we’re trying to do in that moment, Knowing that no matter what we do, it will deemed wrong by someone.

Hillary Clinton had to make an instant calculation on how to respond to him - while continuing to give an intelligent answer to a tough question. She knew that no matter what she did, she’d be attacked for it. If she confronted him, she faced criticism for being distracted, hostile, and overreacting, among other things. If she didn’t, she be attacked for “letting him get away with it.” She chose to do the latter, and stay focused, not get distracted by the bully lurking behind her, and answer the question she was given

She had to choose between two not perfect solutions. She made her choice, a perfectly reasonable one. And true to form, nearly 3 years later, people who weren’t in her shoes are questioning it.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:18 AM

33. "Clinton attacks Trump for walking behind her. Too sensitive to be Prez?"

Film at 11.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:39 AM

39. She would have been called "bossy"

Touchy.

Pushy.

Agitated.

Distracted.

Any other word to imply that she came unraveled in a tense situation

If she loses her shit because someone walks near her, how is she going to handle Putin?

So she refuses to take his bait and does her job instead, and she became weak, dominated, afraid.

When everyone is determined to find a way for you to lose, there is nothing you can do to win.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:48 AM

15. trump should have turned a lot of voters off, but white wingers loved it. Still hard to accept.

What's amazing is that so many women voted for the lying, misogynist, racist cad.

I get why ignorant white wing men went for that junk, but would have thought women would rebel against that behavior.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:15 AM

30. She lost with her own demographic

White women actually favored Trump, a proven vile misogynist if there ever was one. I still find that to be incredulous, as much so as the horrific election result itself.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:53 AM

19. That is very victim-blaming

The Orange Bloviator did something wrong to someone. So the victim is said to have "let" him do that.

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Response to treestar (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:57 AM

25. I don't think he was saying that at all. If anything, he was saying that Trump should have been

ordered out of her space. He supported and voted for HRC and is a strong Dem.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:53 AM

20. She should have kneed him in the nads

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 10:56 AM

23. Or, "Donald, are you having trouble finding your chair? It's over there....there you go."

One of the books I read recently mentioned that he planned in advance to do that because he thought it would look dominating. I thought it made him look like a crazy loon who couldn't find his slippers. But I blame the debate moderator. HRC had a lot running through her mind just then and if ‘Ignore it’ was her first instinct, I can’t fault her for that.

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Response to tanyev (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:07 AM

26. I agree; it was the moderator's fault.

He was 'moving on her like a bitch.' He's a predator, and the debate moderator has a responsibility to keep the debate from becoming physical.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:06 PM

67. The moderator should have simply asked him, "Why are you stalking Mrs. Clinton, sir?"

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Response to tanyev (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:05 PM

58. I thought it made him look like a complete psycho.

He looked frightening and dangerous. Any sane person should have seen that move as evidence of his unfitness for office. She was not responsible for his behavior in any way, shape or form.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:09 AM

27. I remember that, and it still pisses me off. She made the decision at the time to ignore...

him, and looking back it may not have been the right one. I wanted to knee the TV in the groin.

But, that's history, and we are looking to next year. I agree-- can't imagine any of the women now running putting up with that. At the very least, practice debates would deal with it.

If it's true that she threw books at her staff, can you imagine what Klobuchar might do to him? Warren? Harris, the prosecutor who looked murderers in the eye?

We don't know if he would try that with any of the men, but imagine Mayor Pete slowly turning around and pointing to the other lectern.

Part of me hopes he does try it again with whoever gets the nod. I vaguely remember one time back in '16 when someone called him on his bullshit and he ran off the stage. He is, after all, a coward.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:55 PM

54. He's a bully and the traditional way to handle a bully

is to punch him in the face. She would have had to do it verbally, of course, but I'll wager ALL the women candidates will be prepared to slap him silly (verbally) if he tries it again.

It really bothered me at the time that the moderator didn't tell him to go back to his seat.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:09 AM

28. And What Should She Have Done?

It was a no win situation for her.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:17 AM

32. Yeah, I hear ya... prolly wuda won Hillary the election if she had read tRump the riot act for that!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #32)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:00 PM

44. Or not.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #32)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:52 PM

53. she would have been described as a shrill angry out of control woman

without a word about what the Orange Toxin was doing wrong.

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Response to treestar (Reply #53)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:27 PM

112. But at least she'd be described today as the President of the United States cuz that's what she'd be


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #112)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 08:12 PM

119. You really think if she had said something, she'd have won Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan?

Interesting.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #112)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:37 AM

125. Russia would TOTALLY have backed off, and the GOP got rid of the data

from Cambridge Analytica, and WI, NC and Michigan would TOTALLY have lifted those voter suppression laws... if only she had just turned around and said that.

It's always her fault, isn't it?

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:28 AM

36. I was totally pissed.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:31 AM

37. I still think, if we're gonna play the "shoulda" game...

...the thing to do would have been a slyer putdown that knocked his cheap intimidation ploy right on its ass.

"Donald, if you're going to stand behind me huffing and puffing, could you at least do it closer? I think my jacket has a wrinkle that needs steaming out."



But she was the one there at the time and had to decide on the spot how to handle it. In the end, "shoulda"s are Monday morning quarterbacking. Useful for other people to consider how they might handle a similar situation, but what was done was done.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:35 AM

38. The fact is she stayed cool and persisted in her goal.

Last edited Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:58 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 11:47 AM

41. I expect this thread to go as well a the recent Anita Hill/Joe Biden thread.

Your plumbers' union friend should be more upset that Dirty Don stalked her and that the moderators let it go on.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #41)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:28 PM

87. No shit.

And tell him his concern is noted.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:21 PM

47. As others have already pointed out

this is annoying victim blaming and trying to be smart after the fact.
Norms and expectations still dictate our perceptions of how somebody should act. For similar reasons, it was said that Obama couldn't appear angry or that Biden couldn't be as hard on Palin.
To read these fantasies of how others would have pretended to act "tough" is just ridiculous and laughable.

"WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? SIT DOWN!"
Seriously? Are we talking as grown ups here? Yeah, that would have surely helped her a lot.

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Response to Hav (Reply #47)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:16 PM

61. Agreed

I think people still like to blame Clinton for an amazing number of things. The premise of this idea, that she should have handled this differently, is silly at best, and I agree, that it is easily all you say.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:29 PM

48. *ALLOW*? WTeverlovin'F????

He is blaming the victim, and it's quite frankly insulting. the onus should be on MF45 to quit being a creepy stalker, not on HRC to have eyes in the back of her head.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:46 PM

51. I'm still pissed about it, myself.

That sort of rude, arrogant, stalking behavior should have been grounds for the immediate shut-down of that debate, coupled with trump being banned from all subsequent debates. If that evil motherfucker tries that sort of maneuver again, I hope to hell he pays for it, big-time.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 12:47 PM

52. "If only she hadn't been wearing that short skirt, been on that dark street, gone to his room ..."

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #52)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:01 PM

56. Oh, cmon! That's not the same thing and you know it!

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:30 PM

89. Yep, sounds like your "friend " is blaming Hillary.

I hope you set him straight. Smh.

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #89)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:36 PM

91. Well, since he voted for her I am assuming he feels she is qualified to be president.

It's voting that counts, right?

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #91)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:44 PM

94. Voting's important but not everything

If your friend is going around criticizing Hillary for making what he thinks was the "wrong" choice here, that can have an influence on how people view other women's approaches and, eventually, have an effect on how other women deal with these issues.

Voting for Hillary's not enough if he's helping to perpetuate the very attitude that helped to keep her from the White House.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #94)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:48 PM

95. well, we were just indulging in a conversational bash of Trump, something I often do with several

of our friends. Hubby refuses to talk about him, tho.

He and our friends are all BIG supporters of our women candidates.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #95)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:56 PM

97. It's great they're supporters of our women candidates

I hope you will urge them also to be supportive of the difficult choices women candidates (and most other women) have to make and not be so critical of them when, thanks to the bias and misogyny that women still face, they must choose between a rock and a hard place.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #97)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:05 PM

99. If any of them falter, I will be there to remind them of what you say.

This year the outrage against Trump is so strong, I don't think I'll have to remind anybody to do what they can to stop this mad man. But we are all of an age where mobility is an issue so not a lot of them can canvass neighborhoods and ring doorbells. Phone banking is better for us.

Don't worry, I would get on anybody's case who didn't fully appreciate women's struggle against misogyny...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #99)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:17 PM

100. Awesome!

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:02 PM

57. Watching some clips of Republican debates, Trump uses male dominance as a tool

He did similar to Republican candidates by standing in front of their entrance path, looking big, and dominant. Anyone who interacts with him, has to not let his physical gestures take away their power. I don’t think Clinton was bad or wrong, just next time we have to act physically dominant. Just like Macron with his handshakes with Trump. Candidates have to practice this and how to handle it.

I don’t think it’s natural for most of us to act like such jerks but we have to this time.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:12 PM

59. I remember that 2016 Town Hall Debate

I'm still upset that the very next day he bragged about checking out Hillary's backside and saying he wasn't impressed to his third-rate deplorable cult.


He should never made it to any of the debates as his campaign should have ended by any and all the following:

1. insulting a POW (John McCain)
2. insulting a Gold Star family
3. insinuating that his opponent (HRC) should be shot by a 2nd amendment supporter
4. mocking a disabled journalist

I'm sure there's more that could be added to my small but significant list. The surreal insanity of his actions should be automatic disqualifying, as should anyone else that follows suit.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:12 PM

60. How about this?

You're doing well for someone your age, but your podium is on the other side of the stage.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 01:40 PM

65. Tell your friend she did fine

As much as we would've been satisfied to see her turn around and chew him out, she would've been criticised for it. People would've said she's shrill, angry, thin skinned, she's exaggerating, making a big deal over nothing, she wants preferential treatment because she's a woman and so on. There was no way she could've won on that point. The moderators should've told him to sit his fat ass down and not crowd her.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:28 PM

71. Why would anyone

think of such a thing, let alone be upset about it? He must really have issues with women. Especially one woman. God, why do I read this stuff?

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Response to stillcool (Reply #71)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:52 PM

75. I can guarantee you he has issues with women and I'll bet there's a lot about his mother...

and how she treated him that would shed some light. However, we know very little about her. Why is that?

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Response to llmart (Reply #75)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 02:58 PM

76. I've always suspected he hates his mother for not protecting him from his father

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Response to stillcool (Reply #71)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:17 PM

101. I agree.

Seems clear.

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Response to stillcool (Reply #71)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:36 PM

109. +1

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:00 PM

77. In the 2000 debate, Gore invaded Bush's personal space.

Bush gave him a dismissive nod and everyone laughed. Gore looked weak. It was a power move by Gore, tho, as he attempted to not appear weak. It backfired. Trump is all about showing dominance in that area and that's what that move. Hillary sought to ignore it. Clearly it didn't work.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 03:03 PM

79. Damned if she did and damned if she didn't, but I blame the moderators for not telling him...

...to return to his assigned seat.

That whole stalking episode triggered the hell out of me and an uncounted number of other women with its implied violence against a women.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #79)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:21 PM

102. Same here - I was up screaming at the mods to do something!!

I don't think he will debate the Dem candidate this time - AT ALL, no matter who it is.

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Response to Runningdawg (Reply #102)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:47 PM

113. I agree, Runningdawg.

Frump will refuse to debate no matter who the Dem is. He'll claim he's standing on his excellent and unsurpassed record as president; not to mention, he'll by "way too busy...". There's no advantage to him taking the debate stage, and plenty of downside.

If so, let's hope the Dem nominee uses the time effectively to showcase and highlight her/his winning stance.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #79)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:56 PM

115. I know, the moderators. Do they have ear devices during something like this?

Mb got msgs. to let it all unfold and do nothing. Ratings you know.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 04:40 PM

93. I don't blame Hillary

When attacked like that its hard in the moment to respond. I had 80 yr old guy in senior dance class put his hand on my butt and his wife was right next to him!

I was in shock that this sweet old man did that so i said nothing. Made sure I didn’t stand next to him after that, creeped me out. I didn’t know what to say so i said nothing.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:22 PM

103. I think you friend might need to spend some time thinking about what women face everyday.

Much less in that circumstance.

Kinda odd that he’s “still upset” about it. That’s bizarre.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:23 PM

105. The first time is hard but once you smack a perv, it becomes a reflex.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 05:52 PM

110. She should've had an MP3 of The Police singing Don't Stand So Close To Me, & played it into the mic

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Sun Jun 16, 2019, 06:51 PM

114. We were sponsors for babies baptized in the Orthodox Church.

At one point in the beginning of the sacrament when all are still in the narthex, the priest reads, "Do you renounce Satan?" And the godparent[s] responds on the baby's behalf, "I do renounce Satan!" And then makes a gesture of spitting in the direction of the west, minus saliva of course. I could see this being appropriate in this instance.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 10:49 AM

126. If she had done that, the media would have KILLED her over it

"Hysterical Hillary loses it in debate versus Trump, proves she isn't mentally fit for office"

"UNFIT"

"Angry Clinton shows she is unstable"

The media spin right after the debate often decides the winner.

Hillary won all three debates going away, and after debate 3, she was pulling away in the polls - then, the Comey letter was illegally leaked to the NY Times and her numbers tanked and last minute deciders broke heavily to Donny Dollhands.

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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:13 PM

127. I'd have loved that - but honestly - she was damned if she did and DAMNED if she didn't.

If she had put him in his place and told him to back off she'd have been eviscerated for "scolding" him, for being too "angry," for being "scared" of him, for thinking she was too important, better than him, "elite."

There was NOTHING Hillary Clinton could do right for the media.

Nothing.


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Response to CTyankee (Original post)

Mon Jun 17, 2019, 01:15 PM

128. FFS

HRC should in no way be held responsible for Trump's behavior, either explicitly or implicitly.

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