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Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:59 PM

Beyond utterly demoralizing and sad, what Pelosi said

https://www.yahoo.com/


Asked about the possibility of impeaching Trump, Pelosi acknowledged that some members of her caucus think he has committed impeachable offenses. But Democrats are "not even close" to having the majority of their caucus back impeachment, she said, arguing they have to make sure they have the strongest case possible before initiating such proceedings.

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Reply Beyond utterly demoralizing and sad, what Pelosi said (Original post)
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 11 OP
triron Jun 12 #1
DURHAM D Jun 12 #2
Nevermypresident Jun 12 #6
pnwmom Jun 12 #7
Control-Z Jun 12 #11
pnwmom Jun 12 #13
cwydro Jun 12 #37
pnwmom Jun 12 #39
cwydro Jun 12 #42
Celerity Jun 12 #47
Captain Zero Jun 12 #63
pnwmom Jun 12 #65
SunSeeker Jun 12 #16
pnwmom Jun 12 #20
arthritisR_US Jun 12 #22
SunSeeker Jun 12 #24
StarfishSaver Jun 12 #60
SunSeeker Jun 12 #23
pnwmom Jun 12 #25
SunSeeker Jun 12 #50
watoos Jun 12 #29
cwydro Jun 12 #38
pnwmom Jun 12 #40
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 12 #43
Nevermypresident Jun 12 #54
treestar Jun 12 #34
yardwork Jun 12 #15
elleng Jun 12 #3
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 12 #44
Skittles Jun 12 #4
trev Jun 12 #5
OnDoutside Jun 12 #21
watoos Jun 12 #30
OnDoutside Jun 12 #35
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 12 #45
emmaverybo Jun 12 #58
uponit7771 Jun 12 #8
3Hotdogs Jun 12 #9
wasupaloopa Jun 12 #10
SunSeeker Jun 12 #17
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 12 #46
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 12 #48
True Blue American Jun 12 #27
watoos Jun 12 #31
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 12 #41
diva77 Jun 12 #12
watoos Jun 12 #32
yardwork Jun 12 #14
True Blue American Jun 12 #28
MasonDreams Jun 12 #18
BigmanPigman Jun 12 #19
trev Jun 12 #51
BigmanPigman Jun 12 #67
True Blue American Jun 12 #26
watoos Jun 12 #33
trev Jun 12 #52
StarfishSaver Jun 12 #61
trev Jun 12 #64
Vinca Jun 12 #36
StarfishSaver Jun 12 #62
Hortensis Jun 12 #49
trev Jun 12 #56
Hortensis Jun 12 #57
trev Jun 12 #59
HopeAgain Jun 12 #53
Baclava Jun 12 #66
BeyondGeography Jun 12 #55

Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:11 AM

1. Discouraging is an understatement. Damn, they already have the strongest case

any congress has ever had for impeaching any President.
Trump is a fucking traitor goddamit!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:13 AM

2. She spoke the truth.

Glad she doesn't lie like a Republican.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:17 AM

6. Her caucus is looking to HER for leadership. If and when Pelosi says go, a substantial

majority of them will publicly say they're for impeachment, IMO.

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:20 AM

7. That's NOT how it works. She can be a closer for the last ten or twenty stragglers,

but only 50 or so have announced support for impeachment, and she needs 218 to vote for it. And they look primarily to their constituents for direction, not Nancy.

So she's right. She's not even close.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:12 AM

11. It has occurred to me that many house members

aren't supporting impeachment because she doesn't want them to support it yet. If nothing else Pelosi is calculating.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:27 AM

13. She's counting. When it gets close we might see a sudden flood of them.

But it isn't close yet. Maybe once Mueller testifies in person.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 07:35 AM

37. Who knew so many were unable to read a report?

Why would his testifying make a difference? He’s already said he will simply reference the report.

She said already that there were numerous examples of obstruction in the report, so wth?

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Response to cwydro (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 08:06 AM

39. Half the voters have an IQ below 100. And many of them probably feel stretched

to their limits and can't tell what is fake news and what isn't.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 08:34 AM

42. I was talking about members of Congress.

I won’t say what I could say to that lol.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #39)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:39 AM

47. these 3 Rethugs would be lucky to crack 100 combined



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Response to cwydro (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:24 PM

63. Lots of citizens have not will / not read the report.

Hell, i have not read it yet. BUT, hearings on TV, with questions that Mueller can read his answer for, straight out of his report should prove to a lot of non-readers that the report DOES NOT exonerate trump. And some things in it read aloud by the guy who wrote it should finally wake people up to the crimes of this administration, party, and family.

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #63)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:59 PM

65. I agree that hearings with Mueller himself could help. And I myself would like to ask

if Mueller concluded when he did at the order of Barr.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:50 AM

16. 61 Representatives currently support an impeachment inquiry in the House.

If Representatives look to their constituents, they should come out for impeachment. 76 percent of Democratic voters say they support impeachment, according to a recent CNN poll. That marks a seven-percentage-point increase from April when support for impeachment stood at 69 percent among Democrats, according to the poll conducted by SSRS. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/impeachment-poll-surges-democrats-trump.html

I think Dem House members are waiting for the green light from Pelosi. Sadly, it's looking like they're not going to get it.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:17 AM

20. Their constituents are made up of people from all parties and no party, not just Democrats.

So the fact that 76% of Democrats are for impeachment doesn't mean that the majority of constituents in purple and even red districts support impeachment. Some Democrats represent these districts and if we lost them in 2020 we'd be even worse off than we are now.

Because impeaching Trump in the House does NOT mean he'll be removed from office.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:43 AM

22. Astute 👏🏼👍🏼

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Response to arthritisR_US (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 03:47 AM

24. Since when is it "astute" for a Dem rep to not listen to 76% of Dems?

The rep won't get the GOP vote regardless. Ignoring Dems will hurt turnout and hand the election to the GOP.

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Response to arthritisR_US (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:07 PM

60. She always is

One of the reasons I'm always glad to see a pwnmom post!

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 03:42 AM

23. Dem reps should do what 76% of Dems want.

The GOP couldn't give a rat's ass what we want. But our reps supposed to go against what 76% of Dem voters want, to please the GOP? That's a great way to dampen Dem turnout and lose reelection for that rep.

And yes, it is unlikely the GOP Senate will vote to remove him. But the Senate can't stop the House from impeaching Trump, and have him go down in history as the 4th President to be impeached. Democrats will go on record as upholding the rule of law. And the GOP will go on record as holding Trump above the law. Trump will be damaged. Regardless of the politics, it's our Constitutional duty, and the right thing to do.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 04:49 AM

25. No, that's not true. All Representatives are supposed to be representing their whole district.

That's how Democrats sometimes manage to get elected in purple or even red districts.

And that's how we sometimes end up with centrist Democrats who drive the rest of us crazy. They're trying to do their job, representing their constituents. They're walking a tightrope and Nancy wants to help them keep their jobs.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:19 PM

50. What's not true? Voting for the rule of law IS representing all your constituents.

Voting to start the impeachment process is what is best for the country. Letting youself be led by the twisted, misinformed desires of the GOP base in your district not only hurts the country, but hurts those dumbass Republicans. They are now happy their Dem reps didn't listen to them on healthcare!

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:19 AM

29. How many of those 24%

who don't favor impeachment do so because they trust Pelosi? That's what I hear here on DU. People here on DU who are opposed to impeach now give the reason that they trust Pelosi.

IMO, if Pelosi were to call a press conference and announce the reasons for impeachment she would get 100% of her caucus, she would unite Democrats.

I watched one of the new House members from California who flipped a seat talk about how she went along with Pelosi's position to wait, but when she held a town hall the push to impeach Trump was resounding.

It's pretty hard to prove a negative. It's pretty hard to prove that members in swing districts who vote to impeach now will lose. I fear the opposite will happen, not impeaching may very well stifle turn out, I hope the Speaker is right. She was Speaker in 2010 when Republicans flipped 64 seats, that has to be weighing on her decision now.

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Response to watoos (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 07:36 AM

38. Well put.

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Response to watoos (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 08:09 AM

40. It's not 24 percent of Dems that matter.

It's getting 218 Democratic Representatives, some of whom represent red or purple districts, to feel safe taking the position -- to feel their voters will support them.

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Response to watoos (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:16 AM

43. Yes. Motives for not supporting impeachment

are fuzzy. It's not like a rep from a red leaning area can say, " I can't get on board because I would lose my seat.". And it would be hard for Pelosi to not be thinking about us losing House seats. It's been her focus throughout her leadership career. Not to say they don't all hate MF45 and want him gone...but it's particularly disturbing when you hear her say that not all think he has even committed impeachable offenses.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:30 PM

54. If you want me to believe that most of the other 185 Democrats in the House

are truly against impeachment, sorry I don't buy it.

How many times has it been reported than Pelosi has had meetings and conference calls with her caucus regarding impeachment?

You don't think she has stressed the importance of presenting a unified front, tried to sway pro-impeachment Democrats to hold the line (just like Nadler), etc.?!?

Naivete...

AGAIN, that's how it works, in REALITY.

I only hope we have the opportunity in the near future, to see how a majority of those other 185 Democrats publicly come out for impeachment if Nancy does.

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:39 AM

34. Do they have minds of their own?

I suspect most of them do, having been elected to the House.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:32 AM

15. +1000

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:14 AM

3. I agree appears demoralizing, but the numbers change every day AND

will continue to do so, moving in our direction.

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Response to elleng (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:19 AM

44. Yes, up to 61. But there are 235 Dems. I suppose

We can hope for some new bombshell. Or for trump et al to defy court orders. Heard someone here say that...there's a contingency who are waiting for trump to do that ...it will be their tipping point.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:15 AM

4. her job to rally them

good luck with that

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:17 AM

5. I don't know what more evidence they could be looking for.

I think Cohen's testimony alone was more than the Republicans had against Bill Clinton. And Mueller was quite clear, IMO.

I've been patient with Pelosi, but I'm beginning to wonder if she'll ever actually move forward.

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Response to trev (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:34 AM

21. The fully unredacted Mueller Report, the underlying evidence, factual witnesses turning up to give

evidence, Trump's Tax Returns ?

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:22 AM

30. The state of NY offered Trump's tax returns

but the House chairman declined to take them.

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Response to watoos (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:43 AM

35. House chairman declined to take them....for now. He is utterly entitled to receive Trump's tax

returns, as a right. If he takes up the NY offer, that may well set a precedent on future requests. I can understand everyone being pissed off that Trump isn't already impeached (for which there aren't the votes in the Senate anyway), but the Democrats are clearly (to me anyway) doing a lot of set up work which will hopefully establish their rights when this works its way through the courts.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:29 AM

45. Don't understand...what bad precedent is

established if they accept the tax returns?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:59 PM

58. It would mean that a president can say "I don't have to comply with congressional oversight,"

get what you want some other way. The issue is compliance in regard to this and any other document the House demands.
Getting the records from the state lets the Federal Treasury off the hook.
And the non-compliance needs to be documented for the court.
This, refusing to hand over tax records, is yet another way the president is defying the constitution.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:22 AM

8. K&R, There's a bunch of Democrats who are not listening to facts or their constituents

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:26 AM

9. I remembrer the stand-up job she did, leading on impeachment for

Bush, Cheney and Rummy.

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:32 AM

10. I think she is smarter about this than any of us.

I am for impeachment if it results in more people turning away from trump, but yesterday’s hearing was bumped for the helicopter crash. No minds were changed.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:52 AM

17. Who's going to watch a hearing with no witnesses and no Mueller?

Yesterday was a bad idea.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:31 AM

46. Glad you said that, because I wanted to say the same thing.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:41 AM

48. Here's the link of the Mathews Swallwell interview

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:26 AM

27. The vote for contempt was just taken yesterday.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:24 AM

31. Republicans are laughing at civil contempt

it means little.

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Response to watoos (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 08:22 AM

41. They are also calling the first witnesses

immaterial (to events in question) and could be seen any night on TV. Heard one of them tell Dean he shouldn't be offering any legal views since he had been disbarred.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:21 AM

12. Where in the Constitution does it state that you should only impeach if you know up front whether

you'll have the votes to succeed?

We would have been better off if the Dems had at least tried to hold Dubya/Cheney accountable -- at least it could have been a strong talking point for cabinet appointment hearings, and such.

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Response to diva77 (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:26 AM

32. History agrees with you,

Republicans flipped 64 House seats in 2010.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:31 AM

14. Timing is everything. Nancy knows what she's doing.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:27 AM

28. Agree!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:04 AM

18. If we had a free press they could be grilling GOP senators.

If we can get 20 we can remove him from office.
Can they all get re-elected? I don't think so.
Senators on record. over and over Are you just as corrupt Senator? Who buys your votes ? Do you really think you can tell the people of the great state of ------- why ? What did you say? Hillary's emails? You've got to be kidding.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 02:13 AM

19. There are Impeachment Rallies this weekend to try to convince

Congressmembers to go for impeachment. Here is an updated list for all the congressmembers and where they stand.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/31/us/politics/trump-impeachment-congress-list.html

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:22 PM

51. I'm going to the one in Vancouver.

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Response to trev (Reply #51)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:38 PM

67. GOOD!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 05:25 AM

26. We need hearings

To expose all the corruption before we go to impeachment!

Slow down guys and let the Leaders do their job.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 06:32 AM

33. Why can't the hearings be impeachment hearings

which carry more clout with the courts? Having impeachment hearings doesn't mean Dems have to vote for impeachment, it means they have a better chance of getting the witnesses to testify they want. It means they have a better argument to get the grand jury information that Barr refuses to release.

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Response to watoos (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:24 PM

52. Because the Republican witnesses are certainly flocking to testify.

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Response to trev (Reply #52)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:15 PM

61. McGahn, Barr, Hicks, et Al are just waiting for them to be called impeachment hearings

Nadler: Please come testify at this hearing.

No.

Nadler: You must come testify at this hearing.

No.

Nadler: I'm holding you in contempt if you don't testify at this hearing.

(shrug) I don't care.

What if we change the name to an "impeachment hearing"?

Why didn't you say that in the first place? I'm THERE! Where do I sit?!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:28 PM

64. "He's so strict."

Gene Wilder, Blazing Saddles.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 07:09 AM

36. That would work if the hearings were televised in the way impeachment hearings would be.

I was all set to watch snippets of Monday's hearings and then there was a helicopter crash. If the major networks/channels don't cover it, the cult members won't see it and that's who should know the facts.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:17 PM

62. You think the "cult members" will watch the hearings in the middle of the day because CNN and MSNBC

carry them live?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 09:49 AM

49. Not at all. :) WHEN IT IS TIME, Pelosi and team will say so,

and support will appear like magic. Most members of congress want to impeach and are waiting for the go-ahead.

Trump is universally despised and fear on the left, but most left-leaning voters are not interested in impeaching as an angry partisan gesture. They will leap to support removal when it's time.

"It's The Conservatives, Stupid." 62,979,879 Americans voted for Trump, and we need at least some of them to have had enough and agree that he needs to be removed.

When that minority does, they will split on a critical issue from the rest, and that could just be the biggest single benefit of removing Trump. At least some of the moderate right must break away from the extremists who've been making their choices.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #49)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:37 PM

56. "Most members of congress want to impeach"

I'm not sure that's true. Do you have a link to something that supports that?

"The House voted overwhelmingly 364-58 to table a resolution from Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) laying out articles of impeachment against Trump, with four Democrats voting 'present.'”

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/363645-the-nearly-60-dems-who-voted-for-impeachment

Maybe, as some here are saying, the Dems are just waiting. I've been in favor of that myself, realizing we need a good case. But why doesn't someone ask these representatives if they are in favor of impeachment when the time comes? I'd like to know if they are eventually going to go ahead with the proceedings.

My congresswoman is a Republican, but the other day I asked Senator Patty Murray where she stands. Haven't heard back.

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Response to trev (Reply #56)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:39 PM

57. Excuse me, most DEMOCRATIC members of congress of course.

Sorry, we know Republicans feel very differently. Our own congressman here in the south is a major betrayer, a former minister who is sooo moral and patriotic and in the forefront of fighting for Trump, God and the American Way.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #57)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:01 PM

59. Yes, I knew we were talking about Democrats.

The vast majority of them voted against impeachment proceedings. Only 60 voted in favor.

I mentioned my congresswoman only because she is (naturally) against impeachment. My interest is in how many Democratic representatives are in favor of eventual impeachment. When all the facts Pelosi is waiting for are in, will we get a yes vote?

At this point, I don't know. Apparently, MoveOn isn't certain, either. Hence the rallies.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:25 PM

53. Fear

So often causes us to make the wrong choice.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #53)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 04:31 PM

66. 'Only thing we have to fear, is fear itself'

"unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance"
-- Some guy named FDR

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:35 PM

55. Don't worry, I'm sure she's all torn up about it

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