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Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:24 PM

Hey MSNBC, really, you just reported that ranchers down in New Mexico are complaining

that they are having cattle stolen along sections of the Mexico and US Border in New Mexico.

Then the person you had interview the rancher by the name Johnson, that has "owned" the land for over a 100 years, and have him whining about this cattle stuff and security stuff and not having a border wall.

You are not only trying to incite the situation, but what is really galling is that the "land" that this rancher sits on, was once under the tribes called, get ready.......................Kumeyaay, Pai, Cocopah, O’odham, Yaqui, Apache and Kickapoo, not once in your reporting did you mention how that the Johnson family got that land, you know by the Allotment laws and Termination laws, how did they get that land...........................what is there history................

Here let me remind your organization of these two "laws" that were used to get the land from the Natives....................and attack Natives......................still to this day in some shape or form....................but now under different disguises like they did up in North Dakota when it came to the last election.................or when the orange asshole was whining about Natives getting casinos....................remember that hearing.......................about Indian blood........................





The Dawes Act or the Allotment law

Overview

The Dawes Act of 1887 authorized the federal government to break up tribal lands by partitioning them into individual plots. Only those Native American Indians who accepted the individual allotments were allowed to become US citizens.
The objective of the Dawes Act was to assimilate Native American Indians into mainstream US society by annihilating their cultural and social traditions.
Over ninety million acres of tribal land were stripped from Native American Indians and sold to non-natives.

https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/us-history/the-gilded-age/american-west/a/the-dawes-act


This Act there MSNBC meant that this Johnson family and other "ranchers in New Mexico and other places had access to the land, back in those days, but you didn't want to report that with this rancher right........................to ask him if his grandparents got that land by that act.........................nope, you wanted to have him explain his manifest destiny claim of losing cattle .....................because of some missing wall..............nope you wanted to have the image of Mexicans or someone with "brown skin" getting those cattle from his mouth to subtle images ...............

Termination Act...................to solidify the bullshit of Manifest Destiny....................

1953: Congress seeks to abolish tribes, relocate American Indians

Congress passes a resolution beginning a federal policy of termination, through which American Indian tribes will be disbanded and their land sold. A companion policy of “relocation” moves Indians off reservations and into urban areas. Through these policies, the Bureau of Indian Affairs plans to move thousands of American Indian peoples to cities and urban jobs.

“Nothing else that Congress can do causes tribal members to lose more of their rights than termination. Termination is the ultimate weapon of Congress and ultimate fear of tribes. Despite its drastic effect, the Supreme Court has held that Congress has the power under the Commerce Clause to terminate a tribe.” —Stephen L. Pevar, The Rights of Indians and Tribes: The Basic ACLU Guide to Indian and Tribal Rights, 1992

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/nativevoices/timeline/488.html

Think about that MSNBC, think of what the US has been trying to do ever since 1953 to terminate a Native tribe, and then you go and listen to some "rancher" whine about losing cattle, by people across a border........................did you go to the reservations in New Mexico and talk to the tribes about this issue of losing cattle.........................probably not, even though there are Natives that are cattle "ranchers"..........................


And then you had the audacity to put that segment on the air...................without any back ground..................but to bring something up on some crimes...................maybe just maybe you should have started back in 1887 for this report....................................and explain who really owned the land and should own that land........................................




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Reply Hey MSNBC, really, you just reported that ranchers down in New Mexico are complaining (Original post)
turbinetree Jun 5 OP
watoos Jun 5 #1
turbinetree Jun 5 #4
lunatica Jun 5 #2
turbinetree Jun 5 #3
Baltimike Jun 5 #5
certainot Jun 5 #31
homegirl Jun 5 #33
Wellstone ruled Jun 5 #6
ZeroSomeBrains Jun 5 #7
Honeycombe8 Jun 5 #23
DemocracyMouse Jun 5 #30
Envirogal Jun 5 #36
technotwit Jun 5 #48
gopiscrap Jun 9 #52
keithbvadu2 Jun 5 #8
matt819 Jun 5 #9
rwsanders Jun 5 #41
Doitnow Jun 5 #10
bluecollar2 Jun 5 #16
rwsanders Jun 5 #38
Marengo Jun 5 #11
pazzyanne Jun 5 #13
Marengo Jun 5 #17
LanternWaste Jun 5 #22
DemocracyMouse Jun 5 #34
pazzyanne Jun 5 #37
Marengo Jun 5 #45
pazzyanne Jun 5 #46
Cheviteau Jun 6 #49
Marengo Jun 7 #51
Honeycombe8 Jun 5 #21
Doitnow Jun 5 #43
Marengo Jun 5 #47
Kind of Blue Jun 5 #12
TygrBright Jun 5 #14
spanone Jun 5 #15
lambchopp59 Jun 5 #18
shockey80 Jun 5 #19
G_j Jun 5 #20
lillypaddle Jun 5 #24
marble falls Jun 5 #25
G_j Jun 5 #26
defacto7 Jun 5 #27
underpants Jun 5 #28
MarcA Jun 5 #29
geardaddy Jun 5 #32
flotsam Jun 5 #35
Codeine Jun 5 #39
malaise Jun 5 #40
ancianita Jun 5 #42
Smackdown2019 Jun 5 #44
yuiyoshida Jun 6 #50

Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:34 PM

1. Well said,

The M$M is not our friend, including msnbc.

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:42 PM

4. Wado...................Thank you

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:40 PM

2. Thank you for this highly educational post

My mother was a CDC (Child Development Center) teacher who taught Native American children who’s families were relocated to the Bay Area. Very few people know this history. She was a real fighter for education, especially for underserved communities.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 12:42 PM

3. Wado...................Thank you

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:00 PM

5. The myth of the liberal media (RIP bartcop). nt

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Response to Baltimike (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:13 PM

31. in new mexico the single loudest medium is talk radio and one limbaugh ssstation

- 770 kkob - and the local blowhards, a truly ignorant bunch of dumbasses are constantly blasting RW versions of all this and that station would probably have to go to other programming if UNM reread their mission statement and started looking for an apolitical non racist, non trump loving, non global warming denying alternatives.

and it's just one of 88 supporting 260 limbaugh stations

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Response to Baltimike (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:17 PM

33. Bartcop

I too, still miss Terry.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:04 PM

6. Seems to me this Johnson outfit is the go to

for the Militia groups. BTW,Cattle Rustling is a Major Problem through out the South West. And the Ranchers are now moving there herds from the Farm Yards out to the High Country on your Grazing Land.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:04 PM

7. MSNBC isn't our friend

They are at best a more left-wing version of CNN. They don't care about Native Americans or the past or how these ranchers acquired their land. Remember that NBC had 45 on their airwaves for over a decade.

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Response to ZeroSomeBrains (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:43 PM

23. Nonsense. It's a legitimate news organization that reports news.

It's not its job when reporting on current theft of legally owned property to delve into the ancient history, which isn't relevant.

An argument can be made that the land YOU live on was stolen at one point in time. Should MSNBC bring that up, when reporting on a burglary at your house?

Everyone knows the shameful history of taking land from the various Native American tribes here in America. Should we end every story about property theft with "Of course, that land was once stolen from Native Americans over 100 years ago."

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:10 PM

30. Yes, I honestly think we should report recent history.

Going back to 1953 when that forced relocation took place would be nothing compared to going back to WWII and Nazis relocation and fucking GAS CHAMBERS. Now, because our media and education system has not been competing with sports and entertainment distractions, nearly half of America is ready to roll over and accept the forced imprisonment of innocent children with Native American roots.

I LOVE this educational lesson from Honeycombe8. Keep it coming friend. Don't stop.

People, we must be vigilant and we must know our history. It's not too much to expect those who are fortunate enough to get a college degree and get a solid paycheck from MSNBC to do the background research like they often do on the BBC.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 05:04 PM

36. Frustrating the MSNBC bashing

I agree that asking about long past history that is NOT relevant to the story is missing the point. Then people pile on one of the few networks beating the drum on trump crimes, is another case of liberals cutting their nose to spite their face in this quest for perfection.

The theft on the native tribes is tragic and a known stain on this country. We have a looong list of atrocities in our history to many groups. But if a rancher is losing his cattle on land that he pays taxes on and has legal title to for a hundred years, the time to discuss real land rights is NOT on a immigration/border wall segment. That is not the reporters job nor should it be expected.

Jeez, the purity test is getting hard for anyone to pass. Folks, this is why the GOP beats us over and over again and how we got someone like Trump in office. Perspective, please!

I guess we should give California and the entire southwest back to Mexico and then our immigration issue is solved!

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Response to Envirogal (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 10:05 PM

48. MSNBC Bashing

>>
I guess we should give California and the entire southwest back to Mexico and then our immigration issue is solved!

Wait , I thought we had to give everything to ex-slaves and descendants as reparations for slavery. This going to get as complicated as water rights in California, where in many cases the same water is a "right" for multiple agreements/farmers.

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Response to Envirogal (Reply #36)

Sun Jun 9, 2019, 12:14 PM

52. welcome to DU

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:23 PM

8. Why are they whining? The Kolfage group will build a fence on their land for free.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:31 PM

9. Good info

And, yes, we mustn't forget the history. It's utterly horrifying what settlers and then the government have done to Native Americans over the past 500 years. Here in New England you can't spit without bumping into a town named after a Native American tribe. And yet, how did that come to be? Why, because of something approaching genocide, or whatever it might have been called in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries.

All of that said. . .

Was this doofus questioned about what his stolen cattle have to do with illegal immigrants? How is he so certain - beyond him being white and them being not white - that illegal migrants are responsible for his losses?

My guess is that any illegal immigrants are far more interested in their survival and probably aren't going to stop and steal cattle. What would they do? Have a cookout?

Rather, what's his fencing situation? Is he protecting his cattle?

Is this even true? Or is he doing what white supremacists worldwide do - fan the flames of racism and hatred? My bet? No cattle lost. White supremacist. Fanning flames. Wanna bet the buffoon-in-chief is going to tweet about this in 3...2...1.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 05:34 PM

41. I think he's certain because he already slaughtered all the wolves in the area, so the next boogyman

is illegals.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:35 PM

10. Didn't I read somewhere in the last fews years that Texas got the right to write text books

for all the schools in the U.S? I'm guessing that's one way of editing out certain parts of history---am I correct? That may be only one of many ways a country can be denied the history they should know. You don't have to burn books, just leave out certain parts.

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Response to Doitnow (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:11 PM

16. No...you are partially correct

They dont have the right to print the textbooks for all the schools in the US but since they are the largest buyer of textbooks, publishers will generally print textbooks that meet the "approval" of the Texas State Board of Education which is one of the most radical boards imaginable.

School districts outside of Texas may not have a choice in the school texts available.

By default, they do get their agenda into the textbooks.

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Response to Doitnow (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 05:27 PM

38. For details on this issue and impact on current affairs try

Lies My Teacher Told Me by Dr. James Loewen

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:42 PM

11. As none of this is relevant to the current situation, why would they include that info?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:56 PM

13. What?

You must be using . right? The laws that have been violated that discriminate against people are very relevant to what is happening today and should. be. included! Once things are written out of history, they are no longer part of our history and promote further discrimination in the future.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:14 PM

17. You support the legalization of cattle rustling?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:42 PM

22. It does not follow.

It Does Not Follow. When the conclusion does not follow from the premises. In more informal reasoning, it can be when what is presented as evidence or reason is irrelevant or adds very little support to the conclusion.

Logical Form:
Claim A is made.
Evidence is presented for claim A.
Therefore, claim C is true.

"You support the legalization of cattle rustling?" Yours is a perfect example of that fallacy.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:17 PM

34. You're assuming that history isn't a factor in more history. Well, sorry. It is, and there's a vast

ecosystem of reality impinging on every decision. A linear chain of cause and effect is a primitive superstition at this point.

Besides, history is interesting. Builds "brain muscle" and might even lead to greater justice for all.

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Response to Marengo (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 05:17 PM

37. I support history in history books without being written out.

History is history and DOES NOT CHANGE. Ergo, some folks feel it can be written out since it can't be changed. I support writing history as it happened. If we do not have a record of what actually happened, we will continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 09:22 PM

45. And this addresses the current problem of cattle theft how?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 09:29 PM

46. This from post #10

"Didn't I read somewhere in the last fews years that Texas got the right to write text books

for all the schools in the U.S? I'm guessing that's one way of editing out certain parts of history---am I correct? That may be only one of many ways a country can be denied the history they should know. You don't have to burn books, just leave out certain parts."

Cattle rusting is under law enforcement, and truth in education is for us to defend.

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Response to Marengo (Reply #17)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 10:13 AM

49. Ex-Texan Here

I was born and reared on my grandfather's ranch in Texas. So I know a little about cattle "rustling".

Cattle rustling = Tax write-off. In more cases than you would expect.

I'm eighty years old. I can remember when a rancher only had to show a profit (taxable income) every SEVEN years.

Yeah, cattle rustling is still a problem, but stolen cattle are pretty damn easy to find if one is so inclined to do so. Many cattle that are
"rustled" are sold for cash off the trailer outside the sale-barn before they hit the sale ring inside. So, you got your money and a good tax write-off. How many times have you read about border guards catching "rustlers" crossing the border with a herd of stolen cattle?
Ergo, I call bullshit. Having been born to a Texas ranch, I know it when I see and smell it.

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Response to Cheviteau (Reply #49)

Fri Jun 7, 2019, 11:55 AM

51. Small scale hobby rancher myself, though not cattle. All that you say is true, but again not really

relevant to the OP. My small landholding is near the area populated by the Shoshone. If any my livestock get pinched, the fact that a Shoshone hunting party may have tracked across the land I hold title to now doesn’t in any way address or justify the theft.

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Response to Marengo (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:39 PM

21. I agree. For every plot of land, someone else used to own it, and it was "stolen" from someone...

at some point in time. Depending on what you recognize as legal ownership.

But that's a distraction from the fact that people are stealing cattle. Two separate issues, as I see it.

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Response to Marengo (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 07:28 PM

43. Some people have longer memories than a lot of people in the U.S.

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Response to Doitnow (Reply #43)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 09:31 PM

47. That justifies cattle theft?

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 01:47 PM

12. Bravo!

Thanks for your clear and powerful observations

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:03 PM

14. Thank you. If MSNBC wants to do serious reporting on border/land issues in NM...

They need to read your post, follow the links and understand the resources, as a FIRST step. Then they need to review the Spanish Land Grant system from the 17th Century, and the cascade of incredibly arcane and outright shitty legal maneuverings to control water rights in the Southwest and how that affects land ownership and use by ranchers and others on the land right now.

Oh, and then they need to study up on the mineral extraction rights controversies of the last hundred and seven years, and the eminent domain issues related to military testing facilities and other military uses since the 1930s.

THEN they can blather on about what's "right" and "fair" for those who occupy/use/own land in New Mexico.

I'll start the clock...

patiently,
Bright

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:05 PM

15. K&R...

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:19 PM

18. My guess is they're going to actually build sections for photo-ops of this stupid, useless wall.

I have no clue what MSNBC segment this article refers to. I trust nor observe any corporate-backed media.
It's been over a decade since I last disconnected from television services, I only got hooked up because Dish network offered a pre-paid package, and with family coming for Thanksgiving who whined on about my lack of televised entertainments, I surrendered for the following holiday.
I found one news channel back then I could stomach:
https://freespeech.org/
This post only strengthens my disdain for the whole right wing nutjobbery politics happening worldwide from Trumpism to idiot Bolsonaro. All the same fearmongering crap to support oligarchic regimes who cry "small government" at the same time they're total authoritarian hypocrites subduing the masses every way possible.
In 1980 as I watched this country elect a hero figure movie actor to the presidency was the last time I watched, threw things at the teevee because the "Moral Majority" was neither, such a sick puppet show to legitimize criminal one-percenter greed.
MAGA, doubly so.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:35 PM

19. History is the Great Teacher

I have always told people this. Most don't listen. Most don't know history.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:38 PM

20. Huge thanks for this! I hope you sent it to them

Maybe we all should..

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:50 PM

24. Did you send this to MSNBC?

It's a great post, but you're preaching to the choir. If you haven't already, please get this to MSNBC.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:52 PM

25. Trump claims to be the biggest supporter of "Indians", but only if they look like "Indians".

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Response to marble falls (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:56 PM

26. zing

right on point!

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:01 PM

27. A most righteous rant and well deserved.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:04 PM

28. The Dawes Act

Great post. Loooking that up.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:06 PM

29. Perhaps in the coming centuries large areas of the rural U.S. South/Midwest

will be subjected to this same relocating/mainstreaming into Chinese society.
Then later it will all be "ancient" history. After all it will be for their own good.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 03:15 PM

32. Miigwech and Pidamaya

for posting this!

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 04:06 PM

35. I also wonder

Does he "own" all the land we're discussing or is some of it Federal, meaning public, meaning OUR land that he leases for a nominal fee and if so he now wants free security for it as well?

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 05:32 PM

39. Your abuse of punctuation

makes reading your posts well-nigh impossible, which is sad because I’m sure they’re valuable. But honestly, fighting through that mess of random keysmashing just makes no sense.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 05:33 PM

40. Great post

Rec

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 07:22 PM

42. Thanks for this! I'm with others here -- send it to MSNBC. It could shift their border reporting.

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Wed Jun 5, 2019, 08:29 PM

44. Junior reporter without history

Thank you for your history lesson and correct story path. Trump must understand.... Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California was once Mexico and before that Native Americans land. They did not own it, they respect it! They had their territory as to keep others out, not to put a dead up and use it for collateral.

History is there and we must rededicate those who are blind to the truth!

We must remember!

The junior reporter must not did the background and frankly, it's the border...... people been crossing it for centuries!

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Response to turbinetree (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2019, 11:41 AM

50. Yup...

HE has always been an Asshole.

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