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Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:37 PM

BOOM! here is THE message the Dems should push now: THE MUELLER REPORT IS A SMOKING GUN

"THE MUELLER REPORT IS A SMOKING GUN"

It is simple.

It is clear.

It is short.

It is informational and fights the "No Collusion and No Obstruction" propaganda.

Every Dem must repeat this over and over and over again, in every interview, in every speech, across all social media platforms.

repeat repeat repeat

Cognitive science proves that messages need to be SIMPLE and REPEATED to penetrate. Cognitive science proves that metaphors are powerful, effective, and fire up frames in the brain.

"THE MUELLER REPORT IS A SMOKING GUN" makes clear the report DOES show evidence of serious crimes.

We need to plant this message into the public discourse and public consciousness.

Then proceed to follow the same game plan for individual, main crimes AFTER this message has penetrated and taken hold.
Perhaps something as simple as Yes Obstruction. or Yes Collusion.

Heard this message on the Stephanie Miller show this morning.

37 replies, 2461 views

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply BOOM! here is THE message the Dems should push now: THE MUELLER REPORT IS A SMOKING GUN (Original post)
EveHammond13 Jun 3 OP
Cetacea Jun 3 #1
JustAnotherGen Jun 3 #4
Cetacea Jun 3 #8
lagomorph777 Jun 3 #10
wryter2000 Jun 3 #29
Bonx Jun 3 #2
EveHammond13 Jun 3 #6
malaise Jun 3 #3
JustAnotherGen Jun 3 #5
EveHammond13 Jun 3 #7
deist99 Jun 3 #9
Proud Liberal Dem Jun 3 #11
deist99 Jun 3 #17
Proud Liberal Dem Jun 3 #19
deist99 Jun 3 #22
Proud Liberal Dem Jun 3 #27
deist99 Jun 3 #36
lagomorph777 Jun 3 #12
deist99 Jun 3 #18
Proud Liberal Dem Jun 3 #20
lagomorph777 Jun 3 #23
trev Jun 3 #28
deist99 Jun 3 #35
lagomorph777 Jun 4 #37
deist99 Jun 3 #24
Proud Liberal Dem Jun 3 #25
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 3 #31
EveHammond13 Jun 3 #15
Hoyt Jun 3 #34
Dirty Socialist Jun 3 #13
diva77 Jun 3 #14
EveHammond13 Jun 3 #16
gldstwmn Jun 3 #21
Quemado Jun 3 #26
Laura PourMeADrink Jun 3 #30
Botany Jun 3 #32
kimbutgar Jun 3 #33

Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:41 PM

1. Donny Deutsch had an interesting idea

Substitute the words, "Trump Criminal Investigations" for "Impeachment". Rinse and repeat.

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Response to Cetacea (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:49 PM

4. Yep - Donnie Duetsch suggested last week

That's what I used in my latest call to my representatives.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:13 PM

8. Great

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Response to Cetacea (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:37 PM

10. I was jumping up and down in agreeement when he said that.

Repeating the words "Trump Criminal..." over and over will brand him. And not in a good way.

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Response to Cetacea (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:16 PM

29. I would totally go for that

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:42 PM

2. I've been reading the Mueller report on my shortwave radio.

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Response to Bonx (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:56 PM

6. wow! creative and smart

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:45 PM

3. +1,000

Get thee to the greatest page

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:51 PM

5. Use this when you

Call your Representatives. When you write a letter to the editor, when you interact in Social Media, etc etc.

You , me - WE are the "Dems".

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 01:56 PM

7. indeed

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:34 PM

9. Doesn't

Last edited Mon Jun 3, 2019, 09:11 PM - Edit history (1)

It doesn’t though. The summary in Part I clearly states that “...we did not establish that the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians in their election interference activities.” The report even goes further and says (I’m paraphrasing here),” the Russians wanted Trump to win and Trump wanted to win but it appears they were working in parallel, not in cooperation”.

Without strong evidence that Trump conspired with the Russians to win the election there is no chance to get any repukes to vote for impeachment. If he’s impeached and then acquired I the senate it will just make him more likely to be re-elected.

Now if the house finds evidence to prove he conspired then we should impeach.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:39 PM

11. That's the part of this that really bugs me

The Trump campaign was approached by/collaborated with prominent Russians with established connections to their government to get "dirt" on HRC and Democrats, but since it wasn't directly with Russian GOVERNMENT officials, then ergo, Trump didn't collude with the Russians to get assistance with getting elected (even though the Russian government clearly wanted Trump to win and Hillary to lose).

Also, the obstruction piece is important here too. Even if the Russian collusion angle fails, there are numerous instances of Trump and his minions at least attempting to obstruct the investigation. And Mueller didn't exonerate Trump of that. That alone should be enough to impeach IMHO. If Perjury over an affair was good enough to get Clinton, there's plenty more to get Trump with. And that's not even counting the alleged corruption and gross incompetence.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:21 PM

17. Problem

Here’s the problem though. The repukes will say “well there was no conspiracy so how can there be obstruction?” Not saying their right but that’s what they will hide behind. So if we impeach, and no new evidence is found to prove conspiracy, the senate will acquit. This, I believe, will just make Drump harder to beat in 2020.

I hate to say this, and a lot of people here will probably jump down my throat, but after reading part I and relooking at all the incidents I don’t think Trump did conspire with the Russians. I think what happened is that Trump and his people had a lot of contacts through their businesses over the years with people that had contacts with Russia. The only Russian citizen anyone actually met with during the election was the lawyer in the Trump tower meeting.

I think it’s clear that Russians interfered in the election, but I think it was more against Hillary than for Trump. I think whoever the Republican nominee was would have been supported by the Russians. Hell, the report shows they tried to help Bernie beat Hillary.

So you had the Russians working to beat Hillary and you had Drump working to beat Hillary so it appeared as if they were working together. I mean if your conspiring with the Russians do you actually ask them to find e-mails on your opponent in front of a million people? He’s not the smartest guy out there but I don’t think even he’s that dumb.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:25 PM

19. The "can't be obstruction without a conspiracy" is a legal fiction invented by Barr, et. al

That is not, as I understand, a view widely shared by legal experts. Of course, Repukes could hide behind it and their base will buy into it. But, the way I see it, NOT trying to impeach/remove him from office sends pretty much the same signal about exoneration, does it not?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:38 PM

22. Right

Your absolutely right that there doesn’t need to be a crime for there to be obstruction. Though what I have read is that it is harder to get s conviction on obstruction without a crime. But I’m not a lawyer.

I don’t think not impeaching has the same effect as impeachment and acquittal in the senate. I think impeachment and acquittal makes him harder to beat in 2020 than if we don’t impeach at all. But that’s just my opinion.

There are some things in part 1 that I’m surprised the Repukes aren’t using to discredit the conspiracy angle. If their is a trial in the senate they may use those. For example in part 1 it states (and I’m paraphrasing from memory here) that “the Russians were working to elect President Trump and Trump was working to get elected but it appears that they were working in parallel not in conjunction with each other”. It also states that the Russian government “appeared to have trouble making contact with the Trump transition team after the election.”

Now you get some Repuke in the senate during the impeachment trial and he says”well if he was working with the Russians why would there have been any difficulty getting in touch with the transition team then? It don’t make no sense. So no conspiracy no obstruction.”
The low info voters will hear that and think the democrats are just out to get Drump.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #22)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:12 PM

27. But the base already thinks that Democrats are "out to get him"

There's virtually nothing that Trump would say after an "acquittal" by a Republican Senate that he wouldn't say anyway (and is already saying). I get what you're saying and think that there are valid concerns on both sides about impeachment but this is a highly abnormal situation we have with Trump and if we don't use what we have at our disposal to try to hold Trump accountable, then what's to stop a more competent (potential) autocrat in the future from avoiding accountability?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #27)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 09:25 PM

36. not the base

Wasn't talking about his base. I think you could find a video of Drump fellating Putin while signing away Alaska and it wouldn't change their opinion. I'm talking about independent voters and economy only voters. If the house votes for impeachment and the senate acquits all they will see is that Drump was acquitted. If the economy keeps trucking along they will vote for Drump even if they don't like him. It is hard to beat an incumbent President when the economy is good.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:39 PM

12. You seem to be thinking Mueller's scope included all of Trump's crimes.

Mueller did not look at:

Money Laundering
Counter-Intelligence
Graft and Corruption in office
Crimes Against Humanity

among many many others.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:24 PM

18. Proof

Is there any proof of those crimes? Or will the house be able to find proof of those crimes? We have to be able to convince enough Repukes in the senate to vote for impeachment to get rid of him. Without a smoking gun of any of those crimes it’s not going to happen.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:29 PM

20. Are you saying that we should only impeach if we can remove?

The House is duty bound IMHO to hold investigations and hearings and submit and vote on Articles of Impeachment if the evidence of alleged wrongdoing leads them that direction. It is not conditional IMHO based on whether or not Mitch McConnell and the Republicans in the Senate will vote to convict. A party line vote on the Senate to refuse to convict him doesn't really say anything about "exoneration".

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:40 PM

23. Presumably the Russiapublican GOP Senate would "acquit" him, but that's almost beside the point.

The hearings will publicize so much evidence of wrongdoing that Trump and his Russiapublicans will be severely damaged.

Also, who says that the pre-impeachment hearings and any potential vote will be concluded in time for Mitch to have any say in the matter? What if an impeachment vote in the House happens, say, on the last day of the Congressional session? Oops - sorry Mitch! So sorry to hear you're out of your seat before you can do anything about it!

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #23)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:14 PM

28. That is my view of things, too.

I want as much evidence against Trump (and any of his minions we can include) put out in front of the public as possible. When the Senate fails to convict (and they will, guaranteed), the people will at least have enough information to intelligently decide if they want Trump to continue to be president in 2020.

At this point, democracy has to be up to the people. Impeachment should be a catalyst.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #23)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 09:19 PM

35. assuming

Your assuming that the house will find more evidence of wrongdoing than the Mueller report did. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I'm saying investigate and find the evidence, then impeach. If they start impeachment hearings and find no more evidence than what is in the Mueller report but send the impeachment to the senate there is no way the repukes are going to convict. In my opinion this strengthens Drumps reelection chances.

Remember how everyone was so sure that Drump and his family were going to be perp walked out of the white house once the Mueller report came out? Didn't happen. I wouldn't bet the House will uncover anymore than the Mueller team did.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 4, 2019, 10:10 AM

37. There is a lot that the average public simply hasn't heard (though it is known).

Hearings can put the facts in front of people who otherwise aren't paying attention. Even if only the existing facts are put in people's faces, many will be shocked. Remember the lady who was shocked to learn that the Mueller Report isn't a total exoneration? There are millions of people like that. They need to be educated.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:45 PM

24. Win

I want Drump gone. Anything that helps that happen is good and anything that might hurt that is bad. I believe that an impeachment in the house and acquittal in the senate hurts our chances of beating him in 2020. More so than not impeaching at all. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how I see it.

I think the house should continue to investigate and if they find the smoking gun that shows Trump conspired with the Russians to win the election then impeaxhnandnget rid of his ass.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #24)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:06 PM

25. Why would it hurt us in 2020 if he is "exonerated" by a Republican Senate?

Why would NOT trying to impeach him not send the same message?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #25)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:22 PM

31. Exactly true. Same effect. He didn't do a single thing

wrong. If he had, he would have been impeached.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:56 PM

15. Even IF true, I refuse to play by rules that Rs don't follow. Let's win messaging battle.

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Response to deist99 (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:56 PM

34. Exactly. Mueller said 21 different times that his office "did not identify evidence" trump campaign

colluded, conspired, or whatever you want to call it.

Here's another example where he lets trump and the campaign off for the trump tower meeting.

"The Office considered whether to charge Trump Campaign officials with crimes in
connection with the June 9 meeting described in Volume I, Section IV.A.5, supra.

"The Office concluded that, in light of the government's substantial burden of proof on issues of intent
("knowing" and "willful), and the difficulty of establishing the value of the offered information,
criminal charges would not meet the Justice Manual standard that "the admissible evidence will
probably be sufficient to obtain and sustain a conviction."
. . . . .


". . . . . . There are reasonable arguments that the offered information would constitute a "thing of value" within the
meaning of these provisions, but the Office determined that the government would not be likely to
obtain and sustain a conviction for two other reasons: first, the Office did not obtain admissible
evidence likely to meet the government's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these
individuals acted "willfully," i.e., with general knowledge of the illegality of their conduct; and,
second, the government would likely encounter difficulty in proving beyond a reasonable doubt
that the value of the promised information exceeded the threshold for a criminal violation
, see 52
U.S.C. § 30109(d)(l)(A)(i). . . . . . ."
___________________


No wonder it took Mueller so long, he had to contort his report to let the trump campaign off the most serious charges in the investigation. Disgusting. It's very difficult reading Mueller's report knowing the effort he took to give trump and his campaign cover with respect to the most serious aspects of the investigation.


Here's another example that excuses the sharing of polling data with the Ruskies:

"Because of questions about Manafort' s credibility and our limited ability to gather evidence on what happened to the polling data after it was sent to Kilimnik, the Office could not assess what Kilimnik (or others he may have given it to) did with it. The Office did not identify evidence of a connection between Manafort's sharing polling data and Russia's interference in the election, which had already been reported by U.S. media outlets at the time of the August 2 meeting. The investigation did not establish that Manafort otherwise coordinated with the Russian government on its election-interference efforts."
_______________________



Mueller all but precluded the Impeachment of trump based upon the report. Obstruction is not going to take trump down. While I don't agree with Barr that it is impossible to charge someone with Obstruction when there is no underlying crime, it's darn sure a lot tougher to do.


Had Mueller taken the energy to rephrase the parts of this report like the 21 times he said his office "did not identify evidence" or the conclusions in the two examples above, Impeachment would have been much easier in the Democratic controlled House, and Senate GOPers would have had a tougher time denying conviction. Instead, Mueller wimped out.

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:42 PM

13. I think the Mueller Report says

Impeachment inquiry

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 02:49 PM

14. How about "Donald Trump moves to Abort Democracy"

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Response to diva77 (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:20 PM

16. I was thinking #AbortTheCourt if it overturns Roe

we refuse to recognize the authority of any government body that turns women into sex slaves - that denies us the freedom guaranteed to us by the Constitution

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 03:36 PM

21. We can't do that. It might upset the Republicans

and then we'll lose the election. Or something like that.

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:10 PM

26. Still hot smoking gun

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:19 PM

30. Wish we had a time machine from two months ago.

Trump tried to get people to break the law multiple times. Even low-infos could absorb that.

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:26 PM

32. Mueller laid it all out for Congress to impeach Trump.

TRUMP’S RUSSIA COVER-UP BY THE NUMBERS – 251 CONTACTS WITH RUSSIA-LINKED OPERATIVES

https://themoscowproject.org/explainers/trumps-russia-cover-up-by-the-numbers-70-contacts-with-russia-linked-operatives/


(And the vast majority of the 251 contacts happened after the FBI told the Trump campaign to
get in touch w/them if and when the Russians tried to contact the campaign and they DID NOT
DO THAT.)

On April 18, 2019, a redacted copy of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s “Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election” (Mueller Report) was released to the public. The Mueller report builds on the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that there were two campaigns to elect Donald Trump— one run by Trump and one run by the Russian government. The Mueller report clearly identified collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, despite repeated denials from Trump and many of his senior advisers and close associates that there were any connections between the two campaigns.

A total of 251 contacts between Trump’s team and Russia-linked operatives have been identified, including at least 37 meetings. And we know that at least 33 high-ranking campaign officials and Trump advisers were aware of contacts with Russia-linked operatives during the campaign and transition, including Trump himself. None of these contacts were ever reported to the proper authorities. Instead, the Trump team tried to cover up every single one of them.

Beyond the many lies the Trump team told to the American people, Mueller himself repeatedly remarked on how far the Trump team was willing to go to hide their Russian contacts, stating, “the investigation established that several individuals affiliated with the Trump Campaign lied to the Office, and to Congress, about their interactions with Russian-affiliated individuals and related matters. Those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian election interference.”

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Mon Jun 3, 2019, 04:26 PM

33. Brought the mueller report port at Barnes and noble yesterday

While browsing a page I read I saw obstruction and evidence of foreign meddling right there in black and white, fat donnie is so dirty and corrupt.

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