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Tue May 21, 2019, 06:20 PM

It Passed! New York lawmakers pass bill aimed at weakening Trump's pardon power

The measure, which creates a narrow exception to the state's double jeopardy law, now goes to Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo's desk.

New York state lawmakers have passed a measure that would allow prosecutors to pursue state charges against certain individuals even if they've received a presidential pardon ó a move seen as a direct shot at Trump. The bill now goes to Gov. Cuomo's desk. (Cuomo has already said he'd sign)





https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/new-york-lawmakers-pass-bill-aimed-weakening-trump-s-pardon-n1008381?cid=eml_nbn_20190521

The exception would allow state prosecutors to open or advance investigations into any pardoned individual who served in a president's administration, worked directly or indirectly to advance their campaign or transition, or worked at a non-profit or business controlled by the president and whose alleged criminal activity took place in New York state. The exception also allows for investigations to be opened or continued into anyone who was pardoned for the president's benefit.

Notably, Trump's business and campaign are both headquartered in New York.

The change was backed by New York Attorney General Letitia James, who is investigating Trump and his family members, and Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who has indicated he will sign the bill. Prosecutors and lawmakers who back the bill said the measure is necessary to ensure that investigations into the president, his associates and his business taking place at the state level are not derailed by pardons.

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Reply It Passed! New York lawmakers pass bill aimed at weakening Trump's pardon power (Original post)
hlthe2b May 21 OP
malaise May 21 #1
UniteFightBack May 21 #2
gratuitous May 21 #3
mobeau69 May 21 #11
orangecrush May 21 #13
mobeau69 May 21 #26
ProudMNDemocrat May 21 #4
hlthe2b May 21 #5
More_Cowbell May 21 #19
hlthe2b May 21 #20
spanone May 21 #6
lindysalsagal May 21 #7
pazzyanne May 21 #8
ooky May 21 #9
onetexan May 21 #10
dchill May 21 #12
Honeycombe8 May 21 #14
hlthe2b May 21 #17
smirkymonkey May 22 #31
tosh May 21 #15
kimbutgar May 21 #16
SunSeeker May 21 #18
Hotler May 21 #21
Jarqui May 21 #22
hlthe2b May 21 #23
Jarqui May 21 #27
SergeStorms May 21 #24
hlthe2b May 21 #25
SergeStorms May 21 #28
Jake Stern May 21 #29
hlthe2b May 22 #33
Cha May 21 #30
comradebillyboy May 22 #32
Native May 22 #34
luvallpeeps May 22 #35
hlthe2b May 22 #36
pangaia May 22 #37
Maru Kitteh May 22 #38
Blue Owl May 22 #39

Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:21 PM

1. Get thee to the greatest page

Oh Yes!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:21 PM

2. FUCK YEAH. nt

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:24 PM

3. I wonder if Republicans will accept this bill?

Or if they'll suddenly start squawking about respect for federalism, ex post facto laws or some such bullshit as New York State does an end run around their latest attempt to avoid answering for their crimes?

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #3)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:51 PM

11. They'll most likely argue that it's special legislation and hence unconstitutional. nt

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #3)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:53 PM

13. Don't care what they do


because it doesn't matter once it's law.





They can kiss our rear!

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Response to orangecrush (Reply #13)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:21 PM

26. Laws can be overturned. It happens.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:25 PM

4. This will, surely get Trump's BP up....

Anything to weaken Trump's power. I hope more states with Democratic majorities enact the same thing regarding double jeopardy.

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Response to ProudMNDemocrat (Reply #4)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:27 PM

5. My understanding is that this would not necessarily be required in many states. NY had a proviso

(loophole) in current law that, had this change not been passed, would have made the "double jeopardy" aspects insurmountable. If you think of the leading states that might be investigating or have reason to investigate Trump for current or previous violations of state law, one might think (in addition to NY), NJ, CA, FL, NV, IL in particular. I seem to recall a legal expert indicating at least a couple of those states were not as much an issue for charging Trump, his representatives, or children with any applicable crimes--pardons or no. I don't remember the details, though.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #5)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:35 PM

19. Yes, this was a NY loophole that had to be closed, not an issue that every state must address

"Twenty-four states already have laws making it clear that presidential pardons do not cover state charges, according to Sen. Todd Kaminsky, D-Long Island and the billís Senate sponsor."

You already seem to have a grasp of what's going on, but here's a link with more information in case you're interested:
http://www.dailyjournal.net/2019/05/21/us-trump-pardons-new-york/

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Response to More_Cowbell (Reply #19)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:52 PM

20. Yup.. thanks...

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:28 PM

6. K&R...

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:28 PM

7. Effing amazing news!

One for democracy!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:36 PM

8. I. LOVE. NY!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:39 PM

9. Kick

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:40 PM

10. Another win for democracy

Way 2 go NYorkers

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 06:52 PM

12. That's some precision legislation right there!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:05 PM

14. That's great, but I didn't know they couldn't do that, in the first place.

This is the first time I've heard that. No pundit, no post..no one has mentioned that someone pardoned on a federal charge can't be tried by a state for a state charge. So wow....I'm glad they took care of this!

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #14)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:12 PM

17. You have missed a lot. This has been discussed for more than 2 years beginning with

Schneiderman and later the acting AG of NY upon his resignation. In fact, most DUers first heard of the issue from former Trump biographer David Cay Johnston on MSNBC, that was followed by excellent reporting by legal experts. This is NOT a new issue. It has been brewing for nearly two years.

The Atlantic published on it April a year ago:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/schneiderman-double-jeopardy/558389/

See also
https://www.newsday.com/news/region-state/james-double-jeopardy-1.28431909

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-close-new-yorks-double-jeopardy-loophole-now-20190402-eqsxjl6lbzehng6mhyganupu7e-story.html

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #17)

Wed May 22, 2019, 01:24 AM

31. +1000

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:10 PM

15. Thank you New York!!!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:12 PM

16. Giuliani should be getting nervous about now.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:17 PM

18. Good. nt

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:54 PM

21. Well played New York.

Who knows. Maybe it will be the states that brings Trump to his knees and not Washington.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:16 PM

22. A tough part of Nixon's impeachment was when he got pardoned

A lot of people were very unhappy about that.

To deter this from ever happening again, the Trump mob needs to join Manafort & Cohen behind bars.

We now have a desperate animal who fears being caged behind the Resolute desk.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #22)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:33 PM

23. That's how I knew my Mom never voted for him. She was livid for years after that...

My Dad just became more cynical.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #23)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:36 PM

27. For me, there was a string of events in the 60s & 70s

Many events in the Civil rights struggles, assassinations like Medgar Evers through the Kennedys & MLK, etc
Vietnam war & Kent State
Many more ... that led up to:
Nixon carried on the Vietnam war and pulled Watergate.

In the wake of all of that, they pardoned Nixon which was the final dagger to my interest in federal politics for some time. The crook in the Oval office was above the law. So I turned my activism to local issues for a long time.

If Trump is let off like Nixon, I'll be out of federal politics and will never come back because there are not enough years left in my life to ever get over it and not enough years to repair a system so broken that they'd forgive a criminal traitor.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 09:01 PM

24. Someone in NYC should watch...

and see if there's any U-Hauls backed up to Trump Tower anytime soon. There's not a doubt in my mind that Trump will try to establish residence in Florida or some other state that will watch out of the little baby's butt.

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Response to SergeStorms (Reply #24)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:17 PM

25. Most of the crimes likely relate to his businesses so there is no escape.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #25)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:53 PM

28. You know...

it wouldn't stop him from trying though! Trump and the law are on different ends of the spectrum.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:23 PM

29. Going to play devil's advocate here

New York only closed the loophole for certain groups of people, not for all persons who were pardoned by the president.

For example, from my reading anyway, a person convicted in federal court of drug trafficking is still safe from state charges.

Doesn't take a legal scholar to see where a Trump friendly SCOTUS might use that as proof that the law is discriminatory and therefore unconstitutional.

Why they didn't just eliminate the double jeopardy provision altogether I do not know.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #29)

Wed May 22, 2019, 07:01 AM

33. Laurence Tribe and NY Law community have wrtitten multiple articles and opinion pieces

indicating they believe it will pass a challenge as it merely extended what is already in current law and is not retroactive to Federal charges previously tried on the same facts. I don't have access to some of the law publications but here is a recent opinion piece from Tribe:

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-close-new-yorks-double-jeopardy-loophole-now-20190402-eqsxjl6lbzehng6mhyganupu7e-story.html

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:32 PM

30. Brilliant!!

Thank You, hlthe2b!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2019, 01:33 AM

32. Look who's getting things done! Andrew Cuomo and his establishment

Democrats. Far from pure but very effective. Cuomo is also seriously rat-fucking the NRA and may wreck them. I like people who can move the ball down field.

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2019, 10:46 AM

34. Hallelujah

I've been waiting for this for what seems like forever!

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2019, 01:07 PM

35. I'll take any victory large or small!n/t

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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2019, 01:40 PM

36. Laurence Tribe (who worked on this) celebrates NY State's success in passing

(Jon Bonafiaz is his co-author of their ground-breaking book on impeachment)


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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2019, 05:37 PM

37. Proud of my state once again!!!



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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2019, 05:46 PM

38. The walls are closing in.

BOO! Motherfucker.


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Response to hlthe2b (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2019, 06:17 PM

39. Start spreadin' the news....

n/t

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