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Tue May 21, 2019, 10:23 AM

Nadler: "One way or the other"

Last edited Tue May 21, 2019, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

MSNBC
@MSNBC
Chairman Nadler: "Nothing in these unjustified and unjustifiable legal attacks will stop us from pressing forward with our work on behalf of the American people.

We will hold this president accountable — one way, or the other."


121 replies, 8424 views

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Arrow 121 replies Author Time Post
Reply Nadler: "One way or the other" (Original post)
Miles Archer May 21 OP
Perseus May 21 #1
DownriverDem May 21 #11
ehrnst May 21 #13
StarfishSaver May 21 #15
CaptainTruth May 21 #16
Perseus May 21 #20
ehrnst May 21 #26
Perseus May 21 #29
Hekate May 21 #75
Perseus May 21 #107
ehrnst May 21 #110
uponit7771 May 21 #30
NurseJackie May 21 #36
ehrnst May 21 #81
Deb May 21 #72
lagomorph777 May 21 #78
still_one May 23 #120
blue-wave May 21 #88
Cha May 22 #119
StarfishSaver May 21 #17
Perseus May 21 #27
ehrnst May 21 #32
Perseus May 21 #42
ehrnst May 21 #48
Perseus May 21 #95
MGKrebs May 21 #96
gldstwmn May 21 #35
StarfishSaver May 21 #37
spooky3 May 21 #45
Nuggets May 21 #46
Perseus May 21 #55
ehrnst May 21 #58
Perseus May 21 #99
ehrnst May 21 #104
Perseus May 21 #106
ehrnst May 21 #109
StarfishSaver May 21 #63
ehrnst May 21 #59
stillcool May 21 #91
uponit7771 May 21 #49
mcar May 21 #82
Perseus May 21 #93
Cary May 21 #57
spanone May 21 #2
George II May 21 #3
gordianot May 21 #6
OliverQ May 21 #7
Grasswire2 May 21 #21
ehrnst May 21 #22
awesomerwb1 May 21 #47
BSdetect May 21 #4
ehrnst May 21 #60
dalton99a May 21 #5
dlk May 21 #8
Grasswire2 May 21 #33
StarfishSaver May 21 #54
Grasswire2 May 21 #64
StarfishSaver May 21 #69
mcar May 21 #85
maryallen May 21 #114
Xipe Totec May 21 #9
BigmanPigman May 21 #76
orangecrush May 22 #118
muntrv May 21 #10
FrankBooth May 21 #12
muntrv May 21 #25
FrankBooth May 21 #38
ehrnst May 21 #44
StarfishSaver May 21 #18
CaptainTruth May 21 #23
ehrnst May 21 #24
mcar May 21 #86
world wide wally May 21 #14
StarfishSaver May 21 #19
Chin music May 21 #28
Grasswire2 May 21 #39
Chin music May 21 #41
FiveGoodMen May 21 #66
MGKrebs May 21 #98
LenaBaby61 May 21 #73
CaptainTruth May 21 #31
Grasswire2 May 21 #40
Me. May 21 #51
Grasswire2 May 21 #71
ooky May 21 #34
Chin music May 21 #43
StarfishSaver May 21 #50
ooky May 21 #61
StarfishSaver May 21 #68
ooky May 21 #80
StarfishSaver May 21 #87
ooky May 21 #90
BamaRefugee May 21 #97
StarfishSaver May 21 #108
BamaRefugee May 21 #111
StarfishSaver May 21 #112
ehrnst May 21 #52
ooky May 21 #62
ehrnst May 21 #65
ooky May 21 #67
ehrnst May 21 #74
ooky May 21 #83
ehrnst May 21 #89
ooky May 21 #92
bubbazero May 21 #53
ehrnst May 21 #77
ADX May 21 #56
yaesu May 21 #70
Hekate May 21 #100
yaesu May 21 #115
Midnightwalk May 21 #79
hughee99 May 21 #103
vsrazdem May 21 #84
zentrum May 21 #94
LenaBaby61 May 21 #101
sop May 21 #102
D00ver May 21 #105
colsohlibgal May 21 #113
Honeycombe8 May 21 #116
UniteFightBack May 21 #117
I_have_had_enough May 24 #121

Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:54 AM

1. Oh, wow, that should scare the buffoon...

Another threat by Nadler, while we see "nada", nothing.

Talk is cheap when is not followed by actions, and those of you who do not agree with my post, I am sorry, but that is the reality.

How many times in the past month, maybe even last two years, have we heard Nadler and other Democrats threaten the buffoon and members of his party? How many times have the threats turned into real action and have produced real results?

Everyone who is supporting Democrats and want to save our Democracy, we need to get angry about the lack of action, about the empty threats, it takes us nowhere.

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017541785|

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Response to Perseus (Reply #1)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:27 AM

11. Clueless

Too many folks want what they want and they want it now. Too many folks are clueless about how it all works. Why don't you attack the repubs?

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:36 AM

13. +1000. (nt)

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:37 AM

15. Yes.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:38 AM

16. +1 Too many folks have time to complain, but not time to learn how the process works...

...or why the process is so important.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:42 AM

20. Why don't you tell us how it works?

Please explain...

Explain how someone like Don Jr gets subpoenaed and only accepts to appear with conditions, one of them limiting the questions, please explain how that works.

If we don't get angry about the lack of action from Democrats we will be sorry, its not an attack, its frustration to see one side moving full speed ahead and the other one just talking.

But anyway, you seem to know how it works, so please explain to all of us who are frustrated about the inaction of Democrats, it will help us calm down once we understand the works.

Thank you in advance.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #20)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:50 AM

26. Why don't you explain what the Democrats aren't doing but could be

since you're telling everyone that they are not doing everything they could be and 'just talking.'

And then, why don't you tell them. Let us know what they say.

Thank you in advance.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #26)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:53 AM

29. See below my response

I think many who agree with me would also love to understand what, according to some, we don't seem to understand. Someone please explain what we are missing?

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Response to Perseus (Reply #29)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:40 PM

75. When you go to slay the Gorgon, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it

Otherwise you get turned to stone. That's "process."

Your repeated demand that someone explain it to you -- well, the process for our current circumstances has already been explained here many many times. Perhaps someone will post you a link or a dozen links to those posts.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #75)

Tue May 21, 2019, 02:06 PM

107. Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon of Pa. calls for impeaching Trump

Congress has patiently tried to work within traditional means to get to the bottom of this extraordinary situation. But, we have reached an inflection point,” Scanlon said in her statement. “The President’s refusal to produce evidence or permit witness testimony defies not only the rule of law but the basic protections of our Constitution. No one is above the rule of law. The time has come to start an impeachment inquiry because the American people deserve to know the truth and to have the opportunity to judge the gravity of the evidence and charges leveled against the President.”

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142318760|

Someone else seems to think the "process" is not working and other measures must be taken, and this is someone who knows.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #107)

Tue May 21, 2019, 02:26 PM

110. Well, I guess that's a step up from pasting in that Tom Steyer ad again bashing Democrats.

I also think that there's more than a little "good cop/bad cop" going on right now, like when Pelosi was saying that we need to be civil to Trump officials in public, and Maxine Waters was promoting confronting Trump officials in public.

Nancy knows what she's doing.



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Response to Perseus (Reply #20)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:54 AM

30. They still think ad homs via derision is the way to show people how things should work.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:01 PM

36. Like this?

Too many folks want what they want and they want it now.
Like this?



Or this...

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #36)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:46 PM

81. Exactly... (nt)

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:37 PM

72. I find myself humming "Don't ask how, I want it now" from the Willey Wonka movie

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Response to Deb (Reply #72)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:43 PM

78. The girl who played Veruka Salt was amazing

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #78)

Thu May 23, 2019, 11:53 PM

120. So was the person who played in the Bad Seed

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:05 PM

88. Thank You!!

The attitude of "I want it now" and "me, me me!" is all too pervasive in present day society.

Maybe a reading of the children's book, one of Aesop's Fables, "The Tortoise and the Hare" is in good order.

And yes, attacking the republicons is what they should be doing.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #11)

Wed May 22, 2019, 04:17 AM

119. Mahalo, DownriverDem..

I get so tired of these baseless attacks on our Dems from those who think they know it all.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #1)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:39 AM

17. So, please tell us

If you were advising Nadler on his next steps, what exactly would you advise him to do that would actually "scare the buffoon" and produce "real results"?

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #17)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:51 AM

27. Impeach, begin impeachment process

As I understand it, to begin impeachment process allows Democrats to get all the documentation they need, including the unredacted Muller report, to subpoena all involved and the courts will make sure that it is done because it is the law that would support such move.

Impeach Barr, and the buffoon, both. Barr's wings have to be cut, he can no longer stay there.

That is what I would tell Nadler to do, and I would tell him to stop with threats, just tell us what you have done that produced results.

I would also tell him to reject Don Jr's conditions, he must respond to a subpoena and he has no right, by the law, to change the rules. Hillary Clinton appeared in front of a corrupt congress for eleven hours, I am sure Jr can do the same.

Why has he not acted on the "contempt" against Barr?

Its your turn to tell us all how it works, saying that "I don't know how it works" without providing your understanding doesn't help anyone. I would love for you to explain in detail and put my mind, and many others, at ease.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #27)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:57 AM

32. If it's so simple, as you say, then why isn't Pelosi doing it?

What info do you have that she doesn't?

Perhaps you need to explain that you better know 'how things work,' than someone who's been effectively leading Democrats for over a decade?

Did you get the ACA passed when even Obama didn't think it would work?



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #32)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:05 PM

42. Again, you don't give answers you throw the ball back at me

I have said what was asked, you and others say you know how it works while calling me "clueless", then stop throwing the ball back at me and explain, I know many of us are dying to hear from the experts.

As I said before, your knowledge on the topic will ease many of our minds, I will even offer to write to Steyer, send him what your expertise provides so that he may also understand he needs to change course.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #42)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:07 PM

48. So you're not going to answer my question?

"If it's a simple as you say, then why isn't Pelosi doing it?"

Why am I not surprised?

You can't. That or you don't have the courage to say what you really think is going on.


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #48)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:26 PM

95. I will when you explain the process

You are very aggressive at getting back to me, but ignore that fact that you present yourself as someone who knows, who understands the process but instead your only recourse seems to throw the ball back at me without explaining anything.

And by the way, I have, just scroll and you will find my answers on what I see should be done, if I am wrong then let me know, in full sentences and with facts, I really don't mind being proven wrong as long as it is done with decency.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #42)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:26 PM

96. The impeachment process has basically already started.

What you are seeing is exactly what it would look like. Gather information to make a case. There is resistance to gathering that information so these are the steps they have to go through to get it.

In a normal world the repubs would already see the obstruction and criminality, but they have chosen to go all-in and obstruct as well. Congress has to make this case so obvious, so blatant, and so serious that even most R's have to agree that this is unacceptable. We're not there yet.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #27)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:01 PM

35. It is time to open a formal impeachment inquiry.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #27)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:01 PM

37. Impeachment doesn't allow "Democrats to get all the documentation they need"

In fact, it doesn't give them any more ability to get such things as the unredacted Mueller report, to subpoena all involved, or to compel the courts to do rule than they already have.

Everything Nadler is doing is exactly the same thing he would do if an impeachment inquiry had started. He's going through the same processes and following the same requirements, all of which a court would require before ruling on anything - just the same as would occur in an impeachment inquiry.

In fact, it is possible to obtain some of these things easier and quicker through a non-impeachment process. For example, Adam Schiff has already subpoenaed the unredacted Mueller report as part of the intelligence investigation into the Russian interference and compromise investigation. Intelligence Committees often have more justification for such materials and their requests are given more deference because of their sensitivity than other kinds of investigations.

As to your question about acting on contempt against Barr, he HAS acted and is going through the necessary steps complete it.

I understand your frustrations - and share them. But there are processes that must be followed to get what we want and Nadler, Pelosi and the others are doing it. And these processes wouldn't be eliminated or made any easier by an impeachment inquiry.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #37)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:05 PM

45. Thank you. Nt

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #37)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:06 PM

46. +1000 nt

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #37)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:15 PM

55. I like your explanation, but I have also read of the benefits of impeachment at this point

The problem that I, and many others, feel and the reason we are frustrated is because the course of action you explain is too slow, and there is a chance that it will take us to 2020. I have seen and lived similar situations, I know how fast crooks move, and we can all agree GOP is moving very fast, more now with Barr, that is why I feel Democrats need to find the speediest action to get results that would avoid having these crooks run for office come 2020.

"Judges have repeatedly ruled that Congress has a greater claim to sensitive government documents and personal information when it can point to an ongoing legal matter, instead of just a congressional investigation or legislative debate. And impeachment would give lawmakers that legal matter — the process is essentially a court procedure run by Congress where the House brings charges and the Senate holds the trial …"

[link:http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/is-impeachment-essential-to-house-investigations-of-trump.html|

Indeed, impeachment might not only “trump” executive privilege in a court review of congressional subpoenas, but could also give courts a solid reason to speed up hearings and appeals on the subject, much as the U.S. Supreme Court did in United States v. Nixon, the unanimous decision forcing that president to release tapes which included the famous “smoking gun” evidence of obstruction of justice. In that case, SCOTUS ruled just three weeks after oral argument subsequent to an expedited appeal from a district court.

Thank you for your polite answer. I understand what you are saying, but I am still doubtful anything will happen on time, the danger that Barr poses is tremendous, he can change the laws, that is what is done when you want to stay in power, that is exactly what I have seen done somewhere else, and suddenly those course of actions are no longer valid.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #55)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:24 PM

58. So if they could do it faster, as you say they can, then why aren't they?

They apparently know more than you do.

Again... if you have some secret information or a magic wand that Pelosi doesn't have, why aren't you in Washington giving her the benefit of your clearly superior understanding on what is at stake.

Perhaps she'll be so impressed that she will step down and demand that Democrats make you speaker.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #58)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:35 PM

99. They obvoiusly know more than I do, I am not pretending to be an expert here

Lets stop the punches, I am not here to fight with anyone, lets keep the discussion polite and civil, we seem to be on the same side, and I don't think I have insulted anyone here, have I? So please lets be decent when we disagree.

What I understand is that Democrats seem to be worried that impeachment will lower their chances in 2020, that it will create bad sentiment in voters, but I have read that not to be the case, what I understand is that a great percent of voters do want Democrats to start impeachment process.

The problem I have with that thought is that I believe if Democrats do not start impeachment process that many people who want the buffoon out will become very disappointed at Democrats because they will see them as weak and will refuse to even go out and vote.

Once again, my understanding is that the courts would have to support the impeachment process thus making sure Democrats get all the documentation they need and that all subpoenas are answered. That is what I have read.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #99)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:49 PM

104. Let's unpack this:

They obvoiusly know more than I do, I am not pretending to be an expert here

Bull. You have cast aspersions time and time again on Democratic leaders for "not doing anything" and that we need to rise up in anger to get them "to do their job" because they are not doing it, as per your judgement. So yes, you have said that you know more than they do. Or are you now saying that they know what they are doing and are doing "nothing" on purpose for nefarious reasons? Which is it?

Lets stop the punches, I am not here to fight with anyone, lets keep the discussion polite and civil, we seem to be on the same side, and I don't think I have insulted anyone here, have I? So please lets be decent when we disagree.


You are here loaded for bear about how the Democrats are "doing nothing," and worse, and continually spamming threads with a link to a Tom Steyer ad that bashes Democrats. If you wanted to be "polite and civil" why are you doing this all over a Democratic discussion board?

What I understand is that Democrats seem to be worried that impeachment will lower their chances in 2020, that it will create bad sentiment in voters, but I have read that not to be the case, what I understand is that a great percent of voters do want Democrats to start impeachment process.


Why don't you tell us what percent of voters want impeachment? Please share your source of data.

The problem I have with that thought is that I believe if Democrats do not start impeachment process that many people who want the buffoon out will become very disappointed at Democrats because they will see them as weak and will refuse to even go out and vote.


Speak for yourself. What leads you to conclude that about anyone else, let alone a huge number of people - again, data supporting that would be helpful. Your "concerned" posts are not subtle at all.

Once again, my understanding is that the courts would have to support the impeachment process thus making sure Democrats get all the documentation they need and that all subpoenas are answered. That is what I have read.


You seem unclear on what impeachment is legally. It's a political, not a judicial process. Public perception is a huge part of it.
That said, congress needs hard evidence before accusing the POTUS of impeachable offenses. As they say, if you come at the king, you best not miss.

You have still not answered my question about why Democrats refuse to do what you say can and should be done immediately.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #104)

Tue May 21, 2019, 02:02 PM

106. Lets

"If you wanted to be "polite and civil" why are you doing this all over a Democratic discussion board?"

I have been a member of DU for many years, since Clinton was president, never wanted to post, although I may have a couple of times during GW. I am a democrat, and I belong here.

I believe that Tom Steyer does speak for a lot of Democrats, let us not forget he is putting his own money to do this, and I hear the same sentiments here in DU by plenty of people and on the street, on talk shows, I am not alone on this.

"Why don't you tell us what percent of voters want impeachment?" 57% last count...Find your own source, you have access at google as well.

"Speak for yourself. What leads you to conclude that about anyone else"...do you ever read outside of DU or anywhere else that doesn't support your views? I suggest you do that.

I posted a link to what other experts say about impeachment and why they recommend Democrats go ahead with it, so find it and read about it.

You don't provide the knowledge you claim to have, all you do is personal attacks and questions, that is not the way to answer, that is the way to avoid bringing your expertise to the table. you won't prove me wrong if all you do is answer with questions and wanting me to show you links, etc. Bring your own discussion and support your argument.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #106)

Tue May 21, 2019, 02:20 PM

109. "Google it yourself!"

The retort of someone who can't find the data, or realize that they can't share the source...



Be careful what you ask for:

Majority of Americans oppose Trump impeachment hearings after Mueller report, but questions remain
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/most-americans-oppose-trump-impeachment-hearings-after-mueller-report-but-questions-remain

U.S. Voters Still Say 2-1 Trump Committed Crime, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; But Voters Oppose Impeachment 2-1

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2618

do you ever read outside of DU or anywhere else that doesn't support your views? I suggest you do that.


Apparently I read a whole lot more than you do, who claims that Democrats are doing "nothing." And at least I was able to google enough to find some actual polls....



I posted a link to what other experts say about impeachment and why they recommend Democrats go ahead with it, so find it and read about it.


You repeatedly posted the same link to a Tom Steyer ad that bashes Democratic leaders in an attempt to get donations from people like you.

You don't provide the knowledge you claim to have, all you do is personal attacks and questions, that is not the way to answer, that is the way to avoid bringing your expertise to the table.


Pot meet kettle. I never claimed to know more than Pelosi, like you have countless times, who you have stated is "doing nothing." You're the one avoiding explaining why it is that we should trust you and a Tom Steyer ad over what a Democratic speaker with decades of experience, and angrily demand that they rise up against her.

you won't prove me wrong if all you do is answer with questions and wanting me to show you links, etc. Bring your own discussion and support your argument.


I just did. I've been doing it in multiple threads. Your turn.


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Response to Perseus (Reply #55)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:33 PM

63. The attention and priority a judge gives to a case based on where it arose is all up to that judge

There is no legal requirement that a judge give more weight to a matter because it's part of an impeachment vs. something else. And although the author of the piece you excerpted claimed that "Judges have repeatedly ruled that Congress has a greater claim to sensitive government documents and personal information when it can point to an ongoing legal matter, instead of just a congressional investigation or legislative debate," I am not aware of any such repeated rulings in which judges found that a party had a more valid claim to a document because it was requested in an ongoing legal matter than it would in a congressional investigation - and he didn't cite to any cases to support his claim.

The U.S. v. Nixon case is not really illustrative here. That case didn't arise out of the impeachment proceedings. It as brought by the Special Prosecutor to compel the production of the tapes for a criminal trial, completely separate from impeachment. The Court expedited the proceedings because the case involved the president of the United States and the issue was an important one, not because an impeachment inquiry was occurring.

In my experience, judges determine the urgency of a matter based on the circumstances and if a judge thinks a congressional oversight request is important, they will give it significant weight - just as Judge Mehta did yesterday when he expeditiously and firmly ordered Trump's accountants to turn over his financial information to the House Oversight Committee.

And impeachment won't "trump" executive privilege. Whether executive privilege exists or it doesn't has nothing to do with the context or proceeding for which it is invoked. No court is going to rule that executive privilege exists with respect to a congressional oversight hearing but can't be invoked in an impeachment hearing. If a party is entitled to invoke executive privilege, they are entitled to invoke it everywhere. If they're not entitled to it, it doesn't matter where they try to invoke it.

In fact, you're making the argument that Trump is making, in a way. He waived executive privilege with regard to McGahn's testimony to Mueller. Now he's trying to claim it for congressional testimony. But once it's waived, it can't be re-asserted.

The bottom line is that impeachment offers no guarantee that congress will be able to any more likely to obtain the information it's seeking or that they will be able to obtain any more quickly than they can under its regular oversight process.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #37)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:25 PM

59. Indeed. (nt)

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #37)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:19 PM

91. thank you...

so nice to read what I wish I could write.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #27)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:08 PM

49. Impeachment doesn't give any more authority to house than most other process's ... it doesn't, even

... with grand jury information.

They do have to go through the process to compel, it's better to have the courts on the side of democrats than not

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Response to Perseus (Reply #27)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:49 PM

82. Please provide links to your claim

that impeachment allows Democrats to get all the documentation they need.

What is the process in impeachment if Dotard and the Rs just ignore the request for documents?

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Response to mcar (Reply #82)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:22 PM

93. I did, scroll up...entry #55

It is not my claim, it is what I read, I am not trying to make things up, I am trying to understand and I want to see results.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #1)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:19 PM

57. If the goal is for.Democrats to win, this is weak

If the goal is to divide Democrats, per the Republican and Russian game plan, than this divisive crap is effective.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:57 AM

2. K&R...

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:59 AM

3. These guys are playing into the Democrats' hands. Analysis is that Nadler WANTED McGahn....

....to be a no-show so the Democrats can take the next step toward impeachment.

These folks - Pelosi, Nadler, Cummings, Neal, Waters - ALL have a coordinated plan. It may take a while, but they're dealing with republican simpletons.

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Response to George II (Reply #3)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:10 AM

6. We must not get tired of all the winning.

To quote the orange jackass.

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Response to George II (Reply #3)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:11 AM

7. Where did you hear they wanted him to no-show?

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #7)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:44 AM

21. yeah, I'm wondering about that "analysis" source too. nt

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #7)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:44 AM

22. It's pretty obvious that Rump would tell him not to show up.

Now we have Rump frantically trying to cover shit in a litter box.

We also have more of a case to make to judges that we need subpoenas for evidence, because Trump refuses to cooperate.

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Response to George II (Reply #3)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:06 PM

47. " Analysis is that Nadler WANTED McGahn.... View profile ....to be a no-show"

Analysis provided by?? (honest question)

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:59 AM

4. Without action we are in effect living under a feudal monarchy.

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Response to BSdetect (Reply #4)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:26 PM

60. What 'inaction" are you talking about? (nt)

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:02 AM

5. Trump is telling the U.S. House of Representatives to go fuck themselves.




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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:12 AM

8. McGahn has Ties to Organized Crime-He's Not Scared

Lock him up, anyway.

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Response to dlk (Reply #8)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:59 AM

33. Rev Al says...

....that when your opponent is street fighting with broken bottles and shivs (as Trump's team is) you must fight back in a way that inflicts pain. Trump is a mob boss and his fighters are thugs. The dirtiest, unprincipled thugs. They fight dirty and they taunt you while they do so.

The dainty quainty steps of Marquess of Queensbury rules must be set aside as the primary goal here and PAIN MUST BE INFLICTED BY DEMS.

Tag team if you must. Good cop, bad cop them if you must.

But DEMS MUST INFLICT SOME PAIN NOW.

NOW.

NOW.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #33)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:13 PM

54. I love Rev. Al, but he's an activist and commentator. His job is to press from the outside

and he does it well.

But he's never had to govern, represent a diverse constituency, or manage a large, complex organization, he's not a lawyer, not an expert on Congressional processes and procedures, so while his advice is helpful and inspiring, it's certainly not any more dispositive than any other outside observer's is. And the fact that he wants something to happen a certain way doesn't mean that the people in charge of actually doing it have to do it his way.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #54)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:34 PM

64. Nor do they have to do it your way.

(Your circle of influence and your experience being significantly less than that of Rev. Al)

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #64)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:36 PM

69. Of course they don't have to do it my way. I never said they did.

In fact, i don't have a "way." I'm simply explaining to people why they're doing it the way they are.



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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #33)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:50 PM

85. How, exactly, should Democrats be inflicting pain

Please be specific. What, under the law, can they do NOW NOW NOW?

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Response to dlk (Reply #8)

Tue May 21, 2019, 03:14 PM

114. Any proof of that?

That McGahn is tied to mob?

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:12 AM

9. One way or another Lyrics- Blondie


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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #9)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:41 PM

76. I was going to post this too.

Now I have to put Parallel Lines on my turntable.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #9)

Wed May 22, 2019, 12:45 AM

118. Beat ne to it



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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:15 AM

10. Start arresting people for fucks sake.

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Response to muntrv (Reply #10)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:30 AM

12. Who is going to do the arresting?

Serious question. And please don't tell me the Sgt. at Arms -- that's a fairy tale.

In the real world, who is going to do the arresting?

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Response to FrankBooth (Reply #12)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:50 AM

25. So basically, do nothing. POTUS is above the law?

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Response to muntrv (Reply #25)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:02 PM

38. You didn't answer my very straightforward question

There will be no arrests, and no amount of wishing otherwise is going to change that reality. This will be settled in court. Nadler knows that and so does every Dem on the committee. I understand that's a slow and frustrating process, and may feel like 'doing nothing' -- but its not, and unless the judiciary wants to set a democracy-ending precedent, Dems will win this battle eventually.

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Response to muntrv (Reply #25)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:05 PM

44. So you think that if they aren't arresting people they are "doing nothing?"



And you avoid the question you were asked by deploying this fallacy:

Fallacy Name:
False Dilemma

Alternative Names:
Excluded Middle
False Dichotomy
Bifurcation

Fallacy Category:
Fallacies of Presumption > Suppressed Evidence

Explanation

The False Dilemma fallacy occurs when an argument offers a false range of choices and requires that you pick one of them. The range is false because there may be other, unstated choices which would only serve to undermine the original argument. If you concede to pick one of those choices, you accept the premise that those choices are indeed the only ones possible. Usually, only two choices are presented, thus the term "False Dilemma"; however, sometimes there are three (trilemma) or more choices offered.

This is sometimes referred to as the "Fallacy of the Excluded Middle" because it can occur as a misapplication of the Law of the Excluded Middle. This "law of logic" stipulates that with any proposition, it must be either true or false; a "middle" option is "excluded". When there are two propositions, and you can demonstrate that either one or the other must logically be true, then it is possible to argue that the falsehood of one logically entails the truth of the other.


https://www.thoughtco.com/false-dilemma-fallacy-250338

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Response to muntrv (Reply #10)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:40 AM

18. Do you know the process necessary to "start arresting people for fucks sake"?

Please share.

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Response to muntrv (Reply #10)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:45 AM

23. Can you explain why you believe inherent contempt will result in ...

...a better end result for Democrats (wins in court & a big victory in 2020) than civil contempt?

I see a lot of people calling for it but so far no one has been able to make a legally sound & realistic case for it.

Thanks.

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Response to muntrv (Reply #10)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:45 AM

24. Tell us how that would be done, without a trial? Congress isn't a judicial branch.

And one needs criminal, rather than civil charges we have, to merit the perp walk you crave.

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Response to muntrv (Reply #10)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:52 PM

86. Who does the arresting?

To where do those arrested go?

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:36 AM

14. Start with prosecuting Barr... Then McGahan... Then Devos...then Bolton... Then ...

You get the picture

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #14)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:40 AM

19. Congress has not authority to "prosecute." That's an executive branch function

and you know that's not going to happen.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:52 AM

28. The one way or the other being...we will wait around and hope the voting system is corrected.

I'm not so confident. Once they win again due to jimmied up voting software, it'll be all regrets and poor me's from the party who flinched. LET'S GO.

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Response to Chin music (Reply #28)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:03 PM

39. as Jeff Daniels said yesterday on MSNBC...

...if we wait for 2020 and lose (counting on a fairy tale that the election will be sound and fair) we will have lost our democracy.

Who is willing to take that bet?

It's not the American way --- not the CAN-DO spirit that save democracy for the world more than once.

Not the American way to be weak-kneed.

The world is watching.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #39)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:04 PM

41. You've got that right.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #39)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:34 PM

66. "Who is willing to take that bet?"

Many on this board and most of the party.

Sadly.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #66)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:35 PM

98. OK, so there is the current ongoing process, which apparently isn't satisfactory.

To the other extreme we basically have a coup, where we enlist some military or cops to start arresting people, including the (alleged) president of the United States?

If that is too extreme, what is the middle road? I mean, several people HAVE already been arrested. Probably more to come.

"The process" at this point has to include Republicans. If Dems go off and so "something" more drastic (i.e. outside the law?) without R's, THEN what happens?

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #39)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:39 PM

73. +1,000,000 .....

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:56 AM

31. Note the $2 million payment from RNC to Jones Day, McGahn's law firm.

Maybe had something to do with McGhan not showing?

From recent FEC filing (yesterday I think).

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #31)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:04 PM

40. missed that nt

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #31)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:09 PM

51. Jones Day Was Fired In April

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #31)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:37 PM

71. yes

[link:http://
|

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:00 PM

34. For godsakes get on with the damn arrests, fines, etc.

Stop talking about it and fucking DO IT! No more talk. All that hearing accomplished today was to give Collins an opportunity to deliver his bullshit.

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Response to ooky (Reply #34)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:05 PM

43. Yes.

I was thinking the same thing.

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Response to ooky (Reply #34)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:08 PM

50. How exactly do you propose they proceed to "get on with the damn arrests, fines, etc."?

Please explain exactly what their next steps should be and how they should go about doing it.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #50)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:28 PM

61. The way you normally do it when someone fails to obey a subpoena.

Get an arrest warrant and go pick him up?

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Response to ooky (Reply #61)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:35 PM

68. No. That's not how it works.

I suggest you research the process for enforcing a congressional subpoena.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #68)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:45 PM

80. Bullshit.

I never claimed to be an expert about this shit, and I don't need to do "research". Our elected officials need to take action and stop talking about it on MSNBC all day long every damn day. We've listened on MSNBC elected officials and pundits and supposedly knowledgable people talk about how they can conduct arrests, fines, etc. for witnesses they call that refuse to show up. All I'm saying now is DO IT and stop talking. I want to see the arrests and fines they've been talking about.

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Response to ooky (Reply #80)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:59 PM

87. Of course, you don't need to do research

unless you'd like to actually know what you're talking about.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #87)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:11 PM

90. I think I just clarified toyou what I was talking about.

Sorry if you still don't get it.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #68)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:27 PM

97. Assuming that YOU have actually done the research, could you kindly post the process for us?

I make my living as a registered, licensed and bonded process server, for the US District Court and the US Marshals Service, and I know all about serving Federal summonses, subpoenas, writs and levies, etc, but I have no idea how Congressional subpoenas work.
Thanks in advance!

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Response to BamaRefugee (Reply #97)

Tue May 21, 2019, 02:19 PM

108. In short, there are three different paths

All of them share specific requirements to get the ball rolling.

First, once the subpoena is issued, the witness or holder of documents has to definitively refuse to comply. That means more than just saying they won't, but to take some affirmative step to defy the subpoena, such as fail to appear or produce the documents by the deadline.

In McGahn's case, although he signaled yesterday he wouldn't show up, he didn't trigger anything until he actually didn't show up at the appointed time today. He has now defied the subpoena.

The Judiciary Committee now must make some effort to get him to comply. It might be by letter (the much-derided "strongly worded" letter is mocked around here, but it performs a legal necessity), conversations with him or his attorneys to try to negotiate compliance, or some other method. This is necessary because, down the road, before upholding a contempt citation, a court will require a showing that Congress made a good faith effort to secure compliance prior to issuing the citation.

If those efforts fail, the House Judiciary would hold an executive meeting - aka "markup" - to vote on a contempt recommendation. Markups usually require several days notice and usually, the minority can request a one-week extension.

At the markup, the Judiciary Committee members will discuss the measure and then vote. If a majority of Senators agree, the contempt recommendation will be referred to the floor to be voted on by the full House.

When that happens, the measure will likely be referred to the Rules Committee which will set out the parameters for debate (how long each side has, etc.) and the vote. That usually doesn't take long and there may be ways to avoid having to do a rule on a contempt vote ( I haven't looked into that). The debate and vote are scheduled and then the full House votes. Simple majority carries.

If the measure passes, the Congress has now officially cited the witness for contempt. At that point, there are three different avenues that can be taken for enforcement. The first is already a nonstarter, so there's no point in even trying, unless they just want to make a point. That would be to refer the citation to the US Attorney for DC and ask them to enforce the citation with an arrest or prosecution. Since the US Attorney reports to the Attorney General, that ain't gonna happen. So let's move on.

The next possibility is for Congress to exercise its "inherent contempt" power, a rare tactic, which Congress hasn't done in nearly a century, but is being seriously considered. That could mean imposing a fine or instructing the Sergeant-at-Arms to arrest the subject and bring them before the body to answer the contempt charge. If they still don't comply, they would be held in custody until they do or until a judge orders them released. While it's possible to do this, it would be very difficult to pull this off logistically in many instances. It might be easier for a McGahn, who is a private citizen. But it's not clear how the Sergeant-at-Arms would go about arresting the Attorney General or other federal official under 24-7 protection of federal agents and whose homes and workplace are virtual fortresses. It will be interesting to see what happens if they go that route.

The third possibility is to go to court and ask it to enforce the citation. If the court rules that the subject must comply, failure to comply would result in a contempt of court citation, in addition to the contempt of Congress. In such cases, the court could enforce by, among other things ordering the US Marshals to arrest a subject, a process you're obviously very familiar with since it's right in your wheelhouse.

The bottom line is that contempt of Congress citations aren't simple things and Nadler can't just snap his fingers and throw someone in jail because they didn't show up this morning. As you surely know from your work, legal processes are complicated, but must be followed.

I hope this is helpful. You can read more about the enforcement of Contempt of Congress citations here: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45653.pdf and here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-congress-subpoena-explainer/explainer-how-hard-hitting-are-u-s-congress-subpoenas-contempt-citations-idUSKCN1SC1YE

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #108)

Tue May 21, 2019, 02:29 PM

111. GREAT STUFF! thanks so much. I figured at some point the US Marshals HAD to be involved.

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Response to BamaRefugee (Reply #111)

Tue May 21, 2019, 02:31 PM

112. Don't the Marshals always get their man?

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Response to ooky (Reply #34)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:09 PM

52. Arrest? On what criminal charge?

Can you share what you know that we don't?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #52)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:30 PM

62. Failure to obey a subpoena.

You try disobeying a subpoena and see how fast you get picked up.

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Response to ooky (Reply #62)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:34 PM

65. A congressional subpoena or a court subpoena?



You don't seem to understand the difference, but you're sure willing to tell others what's possible...

Here's some reading for you.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34097.pdf

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #65)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:35 PM

67. Either?

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Response to ooky (Reply #67)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:40 PM

74. Do you even know which would apply here?

If not, perhaps you're not someone who should be complaining about people 'not being arrested right NOW!!" and lecturing on the law.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #74)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:49 PM

83. No, I'm not lecturing on anything. I never claimed to be an expert.

I guess you are.

I'm asking for action. I keep hearing our elected officials talk about "what they are going to do" on M$M and I would just like them to stop talking about it and start doing it.

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Response to ooky (Reply #83)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:09 PM

89. This was your post, right?



You were demanding arrests, and had no clue as to what legal grounds, but claiming it should be DONE RIGHT NOW!

I never claimed to be an expert, I just know more than you do, apparently. It's a good thing to know enough to know what you don't know. It helps to keep one from looking foolish.

I'm asking for action. I keep hearing our elected officials talk about "what they are going to do" on M$M and I would just like them to stop talking about it and start doing it.


You must not be watching much M$M if you think that 'nothing's going on.'

House Democrats are laying down a vast net as they ramp up their investigation into deep tracts of the President's personal, business and political life, with a breathtaking document request from a list of 81 people, agencies and entities.
They went after the Trump Organization, Trump employees, the Trump presidential campaign, the Trump transition team, the Trump inauguration committee, the Trump White House and blood members of the Trump clan.
The intent of the sweeping oversight offensive designed to encircle the President, launched by Rep. Jerry Nadler, the New York Democrat who's the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, is clear. Democrats are eyeing a case that Trump is not fit to continue in his job.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/05/politics/democratic-investigations-trump-entire-world/index.html

Democrats say their probes are part of legitimate congressional oversight — spanning issues such as the hurricane-recovery effort in Puerto Rico, the administration’s abandoned family separation policy at the border and Trump’s attempt to build a border wall without congressional approval.

Meanwhile, Democrats are also examining dozens of actions involving administration policies rather than Trump himself. The Energy and Commerce Committee, for instance, has sent out more than 30 oversight requests to agencies that are responsible for health, environment and consumer protection issues, with varying levels of response.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-and-his-allies-are-blocking-more-than-20-separate-democratic-probes-in-an-all-out-war-with-congress/2019/05/11/4d972274-733a-11e9-9eb4-0828f5389013_story.html

In addition to the Deutsche Bank subpoena, House Democrats subpoenaed other banks — including JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America and Citigroup — seeking information on Russian money laundering. The issuance of the subpoenas was first reported by The New York Times.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/democrats-subpoena-deutsche-bank-1277199

You seem to think if there aren't OMG ARRESTS RIGHT NOW than NOTHING is happening. Now you know that things are happening, and you can calm down.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #89)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:19 PM

92. Yes, its my post, and no, I don't watch M$M all day.

I think I made my point clear in my previous post. It's not about OMG ARRESTS RIGHT NOW. But I have heard enough talk about it and am ready to see it. The talk has been going on for a good while now, and yes, I'm getting impatient with it.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:10 PM

53. INHERENT CONTEMPT

Upon a vote of inherent contempt the sergeant of arms of the chamber that passed this resolution would then---with the assistance of CAPITOL POLICE have the necessary authority to arrest and detain whomever the person was which the resolution named. AG Barr has DOJ security around him, but any attempt to use that security to stop this arrest and detainment would be illegal---any DOJ individual who took it upon themselves to resist such action would be also criminally liable--they would be allowed to provide security as all ways-- but no other assisatance such as communications or information. Really no difference then when FEDS show up to arrest state level official--or STATE TROOPERS along with State Law enforcement arrest local officials-- upto and including COUNTY SHERRIFFS AND CHIEF OF POLICE--------their is no jail in the capitol--that originally was to be George Washington's tomb. Can either be help at Capitol Police off site holding facility--or hotel -- as was done in the 1930's------then is brought to trial in the legislative chamber that passed the INHERENT CONTEMPT---punishment set by chamber. YES I AM PROBABLY NOT 100% THIS BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR A REFRESHER FOR ALL OF US

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Response to bubbazero (Reply #53)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:43 PM

77. What is your source for this information? (nt)

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:17 PM

56. "I'm gonna getcha, getcha, getcha, getcha...!"

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:36 PM

70. Interesting convo on the Hartmann show about tRump ignoring everything, including the

Supreme court & getting away with it like Pres. Jackson, tRumps hero, did. As the executive branch controls the teeth of laws (barr).

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Response to yaesu (Reply #70)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:38 PM

100. Is Thom Hartmann still operating out of RT?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #100)

Tue May 21, 2019, 03:52 PM

115. No, he gave that up a long time ago. Unlike MSNBC they gave him free rein

and never tried to shut him down so it was a good gig & no, he never went off on HRC & supported her 100% once the primary was over. Big Ed was on there also, RIP, but I quit watching him, listening to him when he wouldn't support HRC. RT had its rightwing nutjobs but much less than fox. Their approach was subtle misinformation, not in you're face fox news style. I'm sure they thought Thom would be an anti establishment mouthpiece but that didn't pan out.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:45 PM

79. This is the crisis

The current fights couldn’t be more serious. The executive branch is asserting that only it can investigate the president. That congress has no right to subpoena evidence or testimony to conduct oversight.

This is historic. If we lose these battles in the supreme court we have almost no recourse.

The power of the purse would be all that is left and I do not think that could be effective if only done surgically.

Yeah we could and should impeach at that point but the senate would still likely acquit. Unless
McConnell refuses to even hold the trial. I’ll bet a dollar on that.

Sorry if that sounds gloom and doom. I don’t think we’ll lose this war in the courts and then we’ll have the evidence we need. I hope I’m right.

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Response to Midnightwalk (Reply #79)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:48 PM

103. Could you even imagine what would have happened if the Obama

Administration had asserted that any member of the executive branch had immunity from being compelled to testify before Congress.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:49 PM

84. At the least, they should be in civil court this afternoon, seeking penalties/remedies from the

court for failure to appear. That would at least be a first step towards something.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:23 PM

94. How?

How will he enforce the rule of law?

The system is broken.

Need all our Dems to have a plan B, a next step.

Maybe they need to call the entire nation into the streets to create pressure. Thins like that.

So far I see nothing about a plan for enforcement.

The clock will run out as the courts grind through all this. With Trump insisting on Executive Branch privilege for every aspect of any court order.

So again---How? How? How?

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:46 PM

101. Now it appears ....

That team Mueller is having reservations about testafying, per CNN a friend just told me.

IF this reporting is correct and true from CNN, it doesn't seem as if Dems are getting any help right now from anywhere in reigning in this tin-horn, despot of a president and his unholy crew of Senate THUGLICANS

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:47 PM

102. I always wondered how independent contractors stiffed by Trump got justice

Cohen stated during closed testimony Trump would routinely have him call contractors after they billed for completed work, dispute the terms of the original contract and threaten not to pay them anything at all, then pay them only 20 cents on the dollar. Trump bankrupted many contractors and left them holding the bag. Contractors filed suits, but Trump would counter-sue and tie them up in court till they ran out of money. That's what Trump's doing to Congress.

He already stated he would fight every single subpoena, request for documents and claim executive privilege for all his henchmen. Trump intends to drag this whole thing out to the bitter end, whether the Impeachment process goes forward, or not. In either situation he will appeal every case, then probably still thumb his nose and continue to stonewall. Then what? Who will bring him to justice?

They all say Trump's immune from prosecution now as president, but not when he's out of office. My biggest fear is when Trump can finally be prosecuted for all his crimes, the Democrats will say "let's move on...for the good of the country" and do nothing. We'll see.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 01:56 PM

105. LOL

 

Right. Keep talking.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 02:46 PM

113. Yep How Do We Force Them?

If this Evil Clown President and his minions keep stonewalling who makes him/them comply? The Executive branch controls the police and military, the guns.

We are up against it and it’s no slam dunk that we return to any kind of normal anytime soon.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:21 PM

116. He's impressive. I can see why he's the Chairman of this important committee. nt

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:35 PM

117. One way or another I'm gonna getcha, I'll getcha, I'll getcha getcha getcha getcha. nt

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Fri May 24, 2019, 01:03 AM

121. Come on NEW YORK...

You are big enough.
You are strong enough.
And we like you.
Deliver for us New York.
Thank you Jerry.

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