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Tue May 21, 2019, 07:29 AM

There's No Boom in Youngstown, but Blue-Collar Workers Are Sticking With Trump

New York Times

YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio — In May 2016, David Betras, a Democratic Party leader in the heart of industrial northeast Ohio, sent a memo warning Hillary Clinton’s campaign that it was on the verge of losing Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan because she was not connecting with blue-collar voters. These states “should be easy wins for us,’’ he wrote.

He said he got no answer. As he sees it now, Democrats are still just as out of touch.

Mr. Betras, who recently stepped down as Democratic chairman of populous Mahoning County, said that while Democrats in Washington harp on President Trump’s unfitness for office, his taxes and possible impeachment, the president is solidifying blue-collar support through an aggressive trade war with China, even if his tariffs mean economic pain in the short term.

“The Democratic Party has lost its voice to speak to people that shower after work and not before work,” he said. “All we’re saying is he won’t turn over his tax returns. He’s saying, ‘I’m fighting China to get you better jobs.’”

He added: “They don’t care about his taxes — they just don’t.’’

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Reply There's No Boom in Youngstown, but Blue-Collar Workers Are Sticking With Trump (Original post)
brooklynite May 21 OP
samplegirl May 21 #1
Backseat Driver May 21 #25
Historic NY May 21 #2
leftofcool May 21 #3
Turin_C3PO May 21 #4
Freethinker65 May 21 #5
NewJeffCT May 21 #9
edhopper May 21 #11
NewJeffCT May 21 #14
edhopper May 21 #16
Botany May 21 #18
edhopper May 21 #27
Botany May 21 #32
edhopper May 21 #36
kentuck May 21 #6
UniteFightBack May 21 #13
Cousin Dupree May 21 #31
WhiskeyGrinder May 21 #7
brooklynite May 21 #8
WhiskeyGrinder May 21 #10
brooklynite May 21 #17
Azathoth May 21 #30
WhiskeyGrinder May 21 #37
Thekaspervote May 21 #28
UniteFightBack May 21 #12
standingtall May 21 #15
llmart May 21 #19
Azathoth May 21 #20
standingtall May 21 #21
VOX May 21 #29
llmart May 21 #34
Freethinker65 May 21 #35
Backseat Driver May 21 #40
EffieBlack May 21 #22
Initech May 21 #23
octoberlib May 21 #24
Odoreida May 21 #26
Backseat Driver May 21 #41
gratuitous May 21 #33
VOX May 21 #38
themaguffin May 21 #39

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:33 AM

1. Ohio is just plain

stupid they have been voting republican for way to long. They need someone to blame for lack of jobs so this is what you have.

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Response to samplegirl (Reply #1)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:38 AM

25. I don't see it as stupidity but as "arrested development"

that masks a hubris that those plentiful "man" jobs and sacrificial "men" of WWII and their martyred women of faith hold dear and where the phrase "you should) and I "MYOB" is their authoritarian king. I've really struggled with the non-evolution in my own family in many of the ways of the white BLUE-COLLAR mindset that refuses to embrace what they see as democratic ideals and ideas to reward the unworthy and shun much of what is required to live in community and with compromise.

Many are also rather new Americans generationally though they weren't pioneers or explorers, never venturing very far into a nation's expeditions into expansion of the mind or freedoms to move forward and those that left the enclaves of their family, church home, etc...were held to be unappreciative of their parents tireless (and BTW ideologically unproductive) efforts despite what they embraced/valued as worthy and needful of their close care and service to themselves, so it indeed looks like "I GOT MINE, FU, and "I LIVE (literally) RIGHT, you don't"; You moved AWAY (abandoning our superior work ethics; your work is WHITE COLLAR and we'll treat it as nothing more than slaving away in the new-fangled mechanic garages and plantations; "YOUR women don't SAH and (horrors) DRIVE, "Where in the world do you get those ideas beyond the arbiter(s) of justice, US?" CURIOSITY (in education) killed the cat but never delivered more mice." That's all good because, "GOD provides what you need (A mind-numbing rat-wheel job in the production line); how dare you want MORE."

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:38 AM

2. They think he's going to make GM reopen the factory & produce cars no one wants....

somebody ought to tell them what he told coal country and the farmers further west. There isn't enough pain yet.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:45 AM

3. The NYT is right

People care about feeding their families, not Trump's tax returns.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:47 AM

4. WHITE blue collar workers support Trump.

Not black and Hispanic workers. I wish articles wouldn’t treat “white” as the default.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 07:48 AM

5. Ohio voted for DeWine as governor. They are effectively Indiana.

Michigan and Pennsylvania have Democratic governors proving Democrats can win statewide elections in those states. Currently, I think Trump would lose both of those states to our top polling potential Democratic candidates.

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Response to Freethinker65 (Reply #5)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:23 AM

9. What was disappointing about Ohio

was that Cordray led in most of the polling that I saw, especially in the last month before the election.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #9)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:46 AM

11. Disappointing?

Or another sign that elections in Ohio weren't kosher?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:50 AM

14. I didn't look that closely

at the exit polls versus actual results

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #14)

Tue May 21, 2019, 09:05 AM

16. Cordray was up +5

going into the election.

Ohio has been questionable for a long time.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #16)

Tue May 21, 2019, 09:39 AM

18. For Ohio's 2018 election to be on the up and up about 250,000 people who voted for a liberal ....

.... democrat in Sherrod Brown had to turn around and vote for conservative right wingers
as Governor, A.G., & Sec. of State.

BTW I don't know if it is true but OH had more Ds than Rs but you would never know it.

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Response to Botany (Reply #18)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:42 AM

27. Heavily gerrymandered

And 2000, 2004 and 2016 were highly questionable. Even Kerry thinks he was robbed. 2008 and 2012 as well, but Obama probably got enough extra votes to overcome the fix.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #27)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:06 AM

32. The Gerrymandering doesn't effect state wide elections but it has allowed the State Legislature &

State Senate to be become republican fiefdoms and there in they have been able to
all but take away the idea we can vote for our leaders. In 2012 Obama & Sherrod
Brown won their statewide races by comfortable margins but 12 out 15 Congressional
House races went to the Rs even though more Ds were voting.

I know Kerry was robbed in 2004 .... I saw it 1st hand.

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Response to Botany (Reply #32)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:46 AM

36. Yes

exactly.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:03 AM

6. There is a wide swath of Trump supporters in Ohio and going South....

...thru the coal fields of West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky and scattered down thru Tennessee and Northern Georgia.

They believe very strongly in the "deep state". They tend to put jobs over integrity, honor, and character. They don't care about his taxes. They don't care where he got his money or where he is going to get it in the future.

They believe William Barr but they do not believe the NY Times or the Washington Post. They believe Trump is tough and is standing up for them. They think he is a great businessman.

They believe that there is a "whiff of justice" in the air and soon some of their criminal political opponents will be going to jail.

They think America is on the right track.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #6)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:50 AM

13. We have 40% of the country believing in crazy conspiracy theories but not a corrupt obstructing

fake president where it's written in BLACK AND WHITE what he did but they don't believe that.

I feel this country is in deep deep trouble.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #6)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:01 AM

31. There are 2, maybe 3, Dem. strongholds in Ohio: Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo.

The rest of the state belongs to the South. Big time.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:08 AM

7. Youngstown is minority white and the county went for Clinton, but you'd never know it from this

headline. The blue-collar workers who are "sticking with Trump" are white ones.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #7)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:16 AM

8. It doesn't matter how "the country went"

We have to win the election in a system where you win States; and we did't win Ohio (or Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin) the last time.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #8)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:24 AM

10. I said county actually, but I'm not sure why focusing on people who say they'll vote for Trump is a

way to win.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #10)

Tue May 21, 2019, 09:38 AM

17. Because they used to vote Democratic...

I had a discussion with the State Party Chair after the Election. Clinton over-performed Obama in safe blue areas like Cleveland, but massively underperformed Obama in rural Counties.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #17)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:53 AM

30. Obama was lightning in a bottle

He was a fresh, amazingly talented candidate and media phenom who ran in the wake of eight years of disasterous GOP rule which had produced a second Great Depression. Hillary was the exact opposite on all counts.

Dems are going to have to accept that we can't duplicate Obama's performance in many areas merely by finding the right message and holding rallies in the right places.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #17)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:55 AM

37. The white working class in Ohio has been trending downward for Democrats for several elections.

Last edited Tue May 21, 2019, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

It's losing clout and numbers. In 2008, Obama underperformed Kerry's 2004 numbers in Mahong County, even with strong union pushes. Until the party gets clear on race and chasing after populations it thinks it wants, it'll struggle to win in these areas.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #7)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:50 AM

28. Thank you for that clarification including ALL the facts ...not just some

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:48 AM

12. OK JUST WAIT until we start paying more...let's see if these blue collar dopes will still be all on

board. Let's just fucking see. That's one thing we all have common ground on.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 08:55 AM

15. We will never win over idiots who think Democrats are out of touch

when these same people turn around and support a guy that sits on a gold plated toilet.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 09:42 AM

19. There are always going to be a certain number of people who think things are going to go back to the

way it used to be. Youngstown is full of them. They live in the past of the booming steel mills and jobs working in them. The country will move on without them. They then become bitter that life didn't hand them what they wanted. They don't want to do what is needed to move on so they keep wishing and hoping that things will just go back to where you can get a good paying job with just a high school diploma and no training.

Just as with women's rights and diversity, they can not like it but their bitterness will not change the fact that with each generation, things change. Their bitterness will only make their lives miserable while those that recognize that you have to change with the times or get left behind will move forward.

Hillary talked about retraining initiatives etc. but they didn't want to hear about that. This isn't just applicable to Youngstown; it's in pockets all over the midwest. I've heard these stories starting in the 80's.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:12 AM

20. This stuff would be more believable if Trump's trade war was bringing jobs back

But it isn't. The fact these people are willing to accept "short-term pain" purely on Trump's word that things will get better eventually tells you all you need to know about them. These are the same people who gladly accept the "short term pain" of GOP tax cuts for the rich, suffer bitterly under the ensuing government cuts, and then years later credit the GOP policies as the real reason for the economic prosperity under subsequent Democratic administrations.

We need to stop kidding ourselves. Every election cycle we go through this same agonizing reflection over these blue collar whites whose "economic anxiety" the GOP is somehow addressing. These people don't want competent economic leadership. They just want to hear "Fuck the Mexicans, fuck the Chinks, fuck the foreigners, fuck the gays, fuck the blacks." That's how they want their "economic anxiety" spoken to and addressed.

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #20)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:14 AM

21. +1

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #20)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:50 AM

29. Nailed it, dead center. I'd add "owning the libs" as their preferred domestic policy.

Your second paragraph applies to the entire Republican Party. Sadly, that’s how far things have eroded.

And I agree with you, 100%.

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #20)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:22 AM

34. Absolutely!

I'm tired of thinking we have to cater to these people. As I said, we'll move on without them. I know people in Youngstown like this and they've been moaning about the plight of their city since the 80's when computerization was just beginning. They love wallowing in their misery. Let them wallow as the country progresses.

If you look at history, things always progress. Sometimes we backslide on a few small things, but overall we always progress. You can fight it all you want, but it won't stop the progression.

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #20)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:44 AM

35. Yep

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #20)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:55 PM

40. +2 but much more politically complicated than that.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:15 AM

22. This is Tim Ryan's district

You know, the guy who thought he should be Speaker of the House because it was Nancy Pelosi’s fault that Hillary Clinton didn’t carry his district and now thinks he should be President.

He can’t even convince the people in his own backyard that Trump is doing nothing for them but playing them for complete fools.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:19 AM

23. "Thank you sir may I have another?"

The republicsn approved beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:20 AM

24. Trump's trade war w/China isn't doing anything for them. I suspect what they love most about Trump

is his scapegoating of Latinos, Blacks and other minorities .

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 10:40 AM

26. It's the "social issues".

God Guns Gays.

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Response to Odoreida (Reply #26)

Tue May 21, 2019, 03:52 PM

41. Well, at least in that base set of "social issues,"

you've got the violence positioned correctly.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 11:18 AM

33. You know what would be news, O anthropologists of the NYT?

Find a white blue-collar voter who didn't vote for Trump but is now convinced he's the messiah. Just one. I fucking dare you.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:11 PM

38. Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas?" diagnosed this insanity back in 2004.

There’s an outstanding excerpt from the book (pages 67-68) posted on Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What%27s_the_Matter_with_Kansas%3F
Not long ago, Kansas would have responded to the current situation by making the bastards pay. This would have been a political certainty, as predictable as what happens when you touch a match to a puddle of gasoline. When business screwed the farmers and the workers – when it implemented monopoly strategies invasive beyond the Populists' furthest imaginings – when it ripped off shareholders and casually tossed thousands out of work – you could be damned sure about what would follow. Not these days. Out here the gravity of discontent pulls in only one direction: to the right, to the right, further to the right. Strip today's Kansans of their job security, and they head out to become registered Republicans. Push them off their land, and next thing you know they're protesting in front of abortion clinics. Squander their life savings on manicures for the CEO, and there's a good chance they'll join the John Birch Society. But ask them about the remedies their ancestors proposed (unions, antitrust, public ownership), and you might as well be referring to the days when knighthood was in flower.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2019, 12:41 PM

39. Culture trumps policy. It trumps rational thought. This is why the Southern Strategy has been

used for the last 50 years.

This is why the GOP took on fighting against abortion etc.

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