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Sat May 11, 2019, 01:51 PM

Mormon Mom of 6 Details the Reasons *Men* are Most Responsible for Unwanted Pregnancies

I have said it time and time again: MEN NEED TO STOP TRYING TO CONTROL WOMEN AND GROW UP INSTEAD AND LEARN TO CONTROL THEMSELVES. Yet, they continue to refuse because they run our governments and society lets them get off scot-free with ZERO responsibility for their own goddamned junk and how they refuse to control it - costing women their lives, freedom, healthy bodies, careers and reputations.

ORIGINAL twitter thread:




UNROLLED twitter thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1040363431893725184.html

Iím a mother of six, and a Mormon. I have a good understanding of arguments surrounding abortion, religious and otherwise. I've been listening to men grandstand about women's reproductive rights, and I'm convinced men actually have zero interest in stopping abortion. Here's whyÖ

If you want to stop abortion, you need to prevent unwanted pregnancies. And men are 100% responsible for unwanted pregnancies. No for real, they are. Perhaps you are thinking: IT TAKES TWO! And yes, it does take two for _intentional_ pregnancies.

But ALL unwanted pregnancies are caused by the irresponsible ejaculations of men. Period. Donít believe me? Let me walk you through it. Letís start with this: women can only get pregnant about 2 days each month. And thatís for a limited number of years.

That makes 24 days a year a women might get pregnant. But men can _cause_ pregnancy 365 days a year. In fact, if youíre a man who ejaculates multiple times a day, you could cause multiple pregnancies daily. In theory a man could cause 1000+ unwanted pregnancies in just one year.

And though their sperm gets crappier as they age, men can cause unwanted pregnancies from puberty till death. So just starting with basic biology + the calendar itís easy to see men are the issue here.

But what about birth control? If a woman doesnít want to risk an unwanted pregnancy, why wouldnít she just use birth control? If a women can manage to figure out how to get an abortion, surely she can get birth control, right? Great questions.

Modern birth control is possibly the greatest invention of the last century, and I am very grateful for it. Itís also brutal. The side effects for many women are ridiculously harmful. So ridiculous, that when an oral contraception for men was created, it wasnít approvedÖ

Ö because of the side effects. And the list of side effects was about 1/3 as long as the known side effects for women's oral contraception.
Male Birth Control Study Killed After Men Report Side Effects
Science has failed yet again to come up with hormonal birth control for men. The most recent study was stopped because the men reported problems with side effects like mood swings and acne.
http://ow.ly/Hqdx30lOrKJ

Thereís a lot to be unpacked just in that story, but Iíll simply point out (in case you didnít know) that as a society, we really donít mind if women suffer, physically or mentally, as long as it makes things easier for men.

But good news, Men: Even with the horrible side effects, women are still very willing to use birth control. Unfortunately itís harder to get than it should be. Birth control options for women require a doctorís appointment and a prescription. Itís not free, and often not cheap.

In fact there are many people trying to make it more expensive by fighting to make sure insurance companies refuse to cover it. Oral contraceptives for women canít be acquired easily, or at the last minute. And they don't work instantly.

If weíre talking about the pill, it requires consistent daily use and doesnít leave much room for mistakes, forgetfulness, or unexpected disruptions to daily schedules. And again, the side effects can be brutal. IíM STILL GRATEFUL FOR IT PLEASE DONíT TAKE IT AWAY.

Iím just saying women's birth control isnít simple or easy. In contrast, letís look at birth control for men, meaning condoms. Condoms are readily available at all hours, inexpensive, convenient, and donít require a prescription. Theyíre effective, and work on demand, instantly.

Men can keep them stocked up just in case, so theyíre always prepared. Amazing! They are so much easier than birth control options for women. As a bonus, in general, women love when men use condoms. They keep us from getting STDs, they donít lessen our pleasure during sexÖ

Ö or prevent us from climaxing. And the best part? Clean up is so much easier ó no waddling to the toilet as your jizz drips down our legs. So why in the world are there ever unwanted pregnancies? Why don't men just use condoms every time they have sex? Seems so simple, right?

Oh. I remember. Men _donít_ love condoms. In fact, men frequently pressure women to have sex without a condom. And itís not unheard of for men to remove the condom during sex, without the womenís permission or knowledge. (Pro-tip: That's assault.)

'Stealthing' Is A Scary New Sex Trend Trying To Make Assault OK
Everyone needs to know about this.
http://ow.ly/UHgP30lOse3

Why would men want to have sex without a condom? Good question. Apparently itís because for the minutes they are penetrating their partner, having no condom on gives the experience more pleasure.

SoÖ there are men willing to risk getting a woman pregnant ó which means literally risking her life, her health, her social status, her relationships, and her career, so that they can experience a few minutes of _slightly_ more pleasure? Is that for real? Yes. Yes it is.

What are we talking about here pleasure-wise? If thereís a pleasure scale, with pain beginning at zero and going down into the negatives, a back-scratch falling at 5, and an orgasm without a condom being a 10, where would sex _with_ a condom fall? Like a 7 or 8?

So itís not like sex with a condom is _not_ pleasurable, itís just not _as_ pleasurable. An 8 instead of a 10. Let me emphasize that again: Men regularly choose to put women at massive risk by having non-condom sex, in order to experience a few minutes of slightly more pleasure.

Now keep in mind, for the truly condom-averse, men also have a non-condom, always-ready birth control built right in, called the pull out. Itís not perfect, and it's a favorite joke, but it is also 96% effective. ow.ly/1XQo30lOsm7

So surely, we can expect men who arenít wearing a condom to at least pull out every time they have sex, right?

Nope.

And why not?

Well, again, apparently itís _slightly_ more pleasurable to climax inside a vagina than, say, on their partnerís stomach. So men are willing to risk the life, health and well-being of women, in order to experience a tiny bit more pleasure for like 5 seconds during orgasm.

Itís mind-boggling and disturbing when you realize thatís the choice men are making. And honestly, Iím not as mad as I should be about this, because weíve trained men from birth that their pleasure is of utmost importance in the world. (And to dis-associate sex and pregnancy.)

While weíre here, letís talk a bit more about pleasure and biology. Did you know that a man CAN'T get a woman pregnant without having an orgasm? Which means that we can conclude getting a woman pregnant is a pleasurable act for men.

But did you further know that men CAN get a woman pregnant without HER feeling any pleasure at all? In fact, itís totally possible for a man to impregnate a woman even while causing her excruciating pain, trauma or horror.

In contrast, a woman can have non-stop orgasms with or without a partner and never once get herself pregnant. A womanís orgasm has literally nothing to do with pregnancy or fertility ó her clitoris exists not for creating new babies, but simply for pleasure.

No matter how many orgasms she has, they wonít make her pregnant. Pregnancies can only happen when men have an orgasm. Unwanted pregnancies can only happen when men orgasm irresponsibly.

What this means is a women can be the sluttliest slut in the entire world who loves having orgasms all day long and all night long and she will never find herself with an unwanted pregnancy unless a man shows up and ejaculates irresponsibly.

Women enjoying sex does not equal unwanted pregnancy and abortion. Men enjoying sex and having irresponsible ejaculations is what causes unwanted pregnancies and abortion.

Letís talk more about responsibility. Men often donít know, and donít ask, and donít think to ask, if theyíve caused a pregnancy. They may never think of it, or associate sex with making babies at all. Why? Because there are 0 consequences for men who cause unwanted pregnancies.

If the woman decides to have an abortion, the man may never know he caused an unwanted pregnancy with his irresponsible ejaculation.

If the woman decides to have the baby, or put the baby up for adoption, the man may never know he caused an unwanted pregnancy with his irresponsible ejaculation, or that thereís now a child walking around with 50% of his DNA.

If the woman does tell him that he caused an unwanted pregnancy and that sheís having the baby, the closest thing to a consequence for him, is that he may need to pay child support. But our current child support system is well-known to be a joke.

61% of men (or women) who are legally required to pay it, simply donít. With little or no repercussions. Their credit isnít even affected. So, many men keep going as is, causing unwanted pregnancies with irresponsible ejaculations and never giving it thought
.
When the topic of abortion comes up, men might think: Abortion is horrible; women should not have abortions. And never once consider the man who CAUSED the unwanted pregnancy. If youíre not holding men responsible for unwanted pregnancies, then you are wasting your time.

Stop protesting at clinics. Stop shaming women. Stop trying to overturn abortion laws. If you actually care about reducing or eliminating the number of abortions in our country, simply HOLD MEN RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

What would that look like? What if there was a real and immediate consequence for men who cause an unwanted pregnancy? What kind of consequence would make sense? Should it be as harsh, painful, nauseating, scarring, expensive, risky, and life-alteringÖ
Ö as forcing a woman to go through a 9-month unwanted pregnancy?

In my experience, men really like their testicles. If irresponsible ejaculations were putting their balls at risk, they would stop being irresponsible. Does castration seem like a cruel and unusual punishment? Definitely.

But is it worse than forcing 500,000 women a year to puke daily for months, gain 40 pounds, and then rip their bodies apart in childbirth? Is a handful of castrations worse than women dying during forced pregnancy & childbirth?

Put a castration law on the books, implement the law, let the media tell the story, and in 3 months or less, tada! abortions will have virtually disappeared. Can you picture it? No more abortions in less than 3 months, without ever trying to outlaw them. Amazing.

For those of you who consider abortion to be murder, wouldnít you be on board with having a handful of men castrated, if it prevented 500,000 murders each year?

And if not, is that because you actually care more about policing womenís bodies, morality, and sexuality, than you do about reducing or eliminating abortions? (Thatís a rhetorical question.)

Hey, you can even have the men who will be castrated bank their sperm before it happens ó just in case they want to responsibly have kids some day.

Canít wrap your head around a physical punishment for men? Even though you seem to be more than fine with physical punishments for women? Okay. Then how about this prevention idea: At the onset of puberty, all males in the U.S. could be required by law to get a vasectomy.

Vasectomies are very safe, totally reversible, and about as invasive as an doctor's exam for a woman getting a birth control prescription. There is some soreness afterwards for about 24 hours, but thatís pretty much it for side effects.

(So much better than The Pill, which is taken by millions of women in our country, the side effects of which are well known and can be brutal.)

If/when the male becomes a responsible adult, and perhaps finds a mate, if they want to have a baby, the vasectomy can be reversed, and then redone once the childbearing stage is over. And each male can bank their sperm before the vasectomy, just in case.

It's not that wild of an idea. 80% of males in the U.S. are circumcised, most as babies. And that's not reversible.

Donít like my ideas? Thatís fine. Iím sure there are better ones. Go ahead and suggest your own ideas. My point is that itís nonsense to focus on women if youíre trying to get rid of abortions. Abortion is the ďcureĒ for an unwanted pregnancy.

If you want to stop abortions, you need to prevent the ďdisease" - meaning, unwanted pregnancies. And the only way to do that, is by focusing on men, because: MEN CAUSE 100% OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES. Or. IRRESPONSIBLE EJACULATIONS BY MEN CAUSE 100% OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES.

If youíre a man, what would the consequence need to be for you to never again ejaculate irresponsibly? Would it be money related? Maybe a loss of rights or freedoms? Physical pain?

Ask yourselves: What would it take for you to value the life of your sexual partner more than your own temporary pleasure or convenience?

Are you someone who learns better with analogies? Letís try this one: Think of another great pleasure in life, letís say food. Think of your favorite meal, dessert, or drink.

What if you found out that every time you indulge in that favorite food you risked causing great physical and mental pain for someone you know intimately. You might not cause any pain, but itís a real risk.

Well, youíd probably be sad, but never indulge in that food again, right? Not worth the risk!

And then, what if you further found out, there was a simple thing you could do before you ate that favorite food, and it would eliminate the risk of causing pain to someone else. Which is great news!

BUT the simple thing you need to do makes the experience of eating the food slightly less pleasurable. To be clear, it would still be VERY pleasurable, but slightly less so. Like maybe you have to eat the food with a fork or spoon that you donít particularly like.

Would you be willing to do that simple thing, and eliminate the risk of causing pain to someone you know intimately, every single time you ate your favorite food?

OF COURSE YOU WOULD.

Condoms (or even pulling out) is that simple thing. Donít put women at risk. Donít choose to maximize your own pleasure if it risks causing women pain.

Men mostly run our government. Men mostly make the laws. And men could eliminate abortions in 3 months or less without ever touching an abortion law or evening mentioning women.

In summary: STOP TRYING TO CONTROL WOMEN'S BODIES AND SEXUALITY. UNWANTED PREGNANCIES ARE CAUSED BY MEN.

The end.

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Reply Mormon Mom of 6 Details the Reasons *Men* are Most Responsible for Unwanted Pregnancies (Original post)
CousinIT May 11 OP
Loki Liesmith May 11 #1
gtar100 May 11 #3
Fullduplexxx May 11 #43
erlewyne May 11 #59
rampartc May 12 #152
erlewyne May 12 #157
Shrike47 May 11 #67
wasupaloopa May 12 #124
gtar100 May 11 #81
wasupaloopa May 12 #125
PoindexterOglethorpe May 11 #108
blue-wave May 11 #99
gtar100 May 11 #100
orleans May 11 #112
PatSeg May 12 #131
dlk May 11 #102
hunter May 13 #178
qazplm135 May 11 #105
SkyDaddy7 May 12 #115
qazplm135 May 12 #128
handmade34 May 11 #8
kcr May 11 #12
Cirque du So-What May 11 #32
JHB May 11 #64
2naSalit May 12 #127
pazzyanne May 11 #13
Cal Carpenter May 11 #14
Kali May 11 #19
liberalmuse May 11 #24
smirkymonkey May 11 #48
relayerbob May 11 #51
cwydro May 13 #164
mcar May 11 #25
amywalk May 11 #29
onecaliberal May 11 #72
obamanut2012 May 11 #76
Strelnikov_ May 11 #109
yourmovemonkey May 12 #130
Tumbulu May 13 #166
tanyev May 11 #2
ProudMNDemocrat May 11 #4
MineralMan May 11 #5
CousinIT May 11 #6
PatSeg May 12 #136
Stargleamer May 11 #7
pazzyanne May 11 #15
FreeState May 11 #110
pazzyanne May 11 #111
MarcA May 11 #9
Beartracks May 12 #156
KT2000 May 11 #10
shanny May 11 #11
delisen May 11 #16
TygrBright May 11 #17
malaise May 11 #18
ms liberty May 11 #20
Wellstone ruled May 11 #21
shanti May 11 #46
Wellstone ruled May 11 #55
flying_wahini May 11 #60
Wellstone ruled May 11 #62
keithbvadu2 May 11 #101
shanti May 11 #89
Wellstone ruled May 11 #92
StevieM May 12 #133
Wellstone ruled May 12 #147
CaliforniaPeggy May 11 #22
Mosby May 11 #23
mcar May 11 #26
Moostache May 11 #27
CousinIT May 11 #34
smirkymonkey May 11 #50
NotHardly May 11 #58
justhanginon May 11 #28
relayerbob May 11 #30
ginnyinWI May 11 #31
BarbD May 11 #33
bluescribbler May 11 #35
leftieNanner May 11 #36
Mariana May 11 #75
leftieNanner May 11 #79
Guilded Lilly May 11 #37
samnsara May 11 #38
krispos42 May 11 #39
Control-Z May 11 #40
Silver Gaia May 11 #41
Tech May 11 #42
Ohiogal May 11 #44
bobbieinok May 11 #45
shanti May 11 #47
yaesu May 11 #49
fierywoman May 11 #52
IronLionZion May 11 #53
Quackers May 11 #70
Ohiogal May 11 #77
Quackers May 11 #78
meadowlander May 11 #96
PatSeg May 12 #139
IronLionZion May 11 #85
trev May 11 #86
keithbvadu2 May 11 #104
Lithos May 11 #54
homegirl May 11 #56
Leith May 11 #57
forgotmylogin May 11 #61
wasupaloopa May 11 #68
Tumbulu May 11 #80
Doodley May 11 #83
haele May 11 #93
Tumbulu May 12 #137
Doodley May 13 #163
Tumbulu May 13 #165
Doodley May 13 #167
Tumbulu Wednesday #179
wasupaloopa May 12 #119
Tumbulu May 12 #138
forgotmylogin May 11 #94
wasupaloopa May 12 #120
forgotmylogin May 12 #132
Heartstrings May 11 #63
magicarpet May 11 #65
tarheelsunc May 11 #66
Doodley May 11 #84
hunter May 13 #172
Doodley May 13 #173
hunter May 13 #174
Doodley May 13 #175
hunter May 13 #176
RobinA May 12 #116
bloom May 12 #126
Tumbulu May 12 #140
CousinIT May 12 #144
LuvNewcastle May 11 #69
Doodley May 11 #82
Shrike47 May 11 #71
GaYellowDawg May 11 #103
wasupaloopa May 12 #122
Tumbulu May 12 #142
love_katz May 12 #151
wasupaloopa May 12 #154
Tumbulu May 12 #158
GaYellowDawg May 12 #160
burrowowl May 11 #73
procon May 11 #74
UniteFightBack May 11 #87
wasupaloopa May 12 #121
CousinIT May 12 #145
bonniebgood May 11 #88
cp May 11 #90
moondust May 11 #91
Lady Freedom Returns May 11 #95
SunSeeker May 11 #97
SMoss May 11 #98
PatSeg May 12 #143
lordsummerisle May 11 #106
keithbvadu2 May 11 #107
orleans May 11 #113
iluvtennis May 11 #114
angstlessk May 12 #117
BlueMTexpat May 12 #118
wasupaloopa May 12 #123
Tumbulu May 12 #141
wasupaloopa May 12 #155
Tumbulu May 12 #159
the_sly_pig May 12 #129
CousinIT May 12 #146
love_katz May 12 #153
the_sly_pig May 13 #162
fescuerescue May 12 #134
fescuerescue May 12 #135
Doodley May 13 #169
bigbadR May 12 #148
CousinIT May 12 #150
Doodley May 13 #168
cwydro May 13 #170
love_katz May 12 #149
scarletwoman May 12 #161
Doodley May 13 #171
Alea May 13 #177
PatrickforO Wednesday #180

Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 01:55 PM

1. Uh that's unhinged

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:10 PM

3. No its not. It's the truth.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #3)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:45 PM

43. No it's load of crap . Her body her choice if she pregnant it's because chose to let a man into

Her Body . She can say no . Men are 100% responsible for pregnancies from rape other wise it's consentual .

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #43)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:39 PM

59. Julius Caesar intentionally knocked up the maiden Cleopatra

because he intentionally ejected into her because Julius
wanted to be a king. Reading Josephus you will learn that
a means of birth control was ejecting into the ground.
Men were taxed for their children and Caesar was convinced
only a queen should carry his sperm. Pythagorean teaching
(Magi) was having orgies (they did not consider them orgies
because sex was fun and cheap) and in order to force larger
families you were fined for not having children. In their festivals
a woman was not allowed to be on her period in order to avoid a mess
and the men only knocked them up intentionally or otherwise
spewed on the ground.

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Response to erlewyne (Reply #59)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:10 PM

152. in rome if a man did not lift the child and say "behold my child"

the baby was exposed on the mountainside for the wolves.

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Response to rampartc (Reply #152)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:51 PM

157. Yes, that is an ancient Roman spin.

Augustus had a grand daughter, Julia the younger, who was exiled
to an island as a punishment for adultery. The baby was to be exposed.
This was a legality to erase the child from the Augustan hierarchy.
The baby was legally "dead", eliminated from history.
In my studies the baby survived and became an important player
in the Clementines. Illegitimate children were adopted by slaves and any
man by not saying "behold my child" was exonerated and did not have to pay
alimony. The younger Julia's adulterer went into self-exile and returned to
Rome in good graces after Augustus died.



















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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #43)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:58 PM

67. She chose to let him in? In my experience, men are damn pushy about it and stronger than women.

Iím talking husbands and boyfriends here. Furthermore, any man who thinks he has any right to oppose abortion better never have unprotected sex with anybody.

The author is saying something important here.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #67)

Sun May 12, 2019, 09:07 AM

124. Well if you never enjoyed sex or never instigated it I can see how you would agree with this OP. I

think most healthy women enjoy sex and do take getting pregnant as a mutual responsibility.

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #43)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:37 PM

81. I think you need to read the article a little more carefully.

Consensual sex is covered. It's about men being responsible for all *unwanted* pregnancies. Short version: Be responsible how and where you release your swimmers. We men (I'm assuming you are a man) are in the driver's seat on that one. The consequences of our irresponsibility are overwhelmingly the burden of women. It is not equitable, not by a long shot. Our actions and our laws ought to reflect that.

If you have sex with a woman - for the many other reasons other than to get her pregnant - and she does get pregnant because, for your own reasons, you don't pull out in time or didn't wear a condom or discuss with her ahead of time if she is on birth control, are you saying, too bad, it's her fault for having sex with you? Well then, yes, her only protection against you is to say no to you. But it still isn't her fault she got pregnant because you were being irresponsible. Maybe you are the responsible type but your comments on this subject do not reflect that.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #81)

Sun May 12, 2019, 09:10 AM

125. I think you disrespect women. To you they are not even involved in the discussion. It is you and

only you who does the thinking about the consequences.

To you women are passive beings either to be protected from your possible misguided sperm shots or to be abused by them.

You need to give women more credit than that, but it isn't in your make up. You are self centered even if you can't see it. You have removed the woman from the equation, without ever having asked her what she thinks about it.

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #43)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:10 PM

108. Did you not bother to read the part about

men removing condoms during sex? I've heard of men poking holes in them.

Oh, and a lot of men will lie a lot. The sainted Steve Jobs claimed he was sterile to avoid paying child support when he got a girlfriend pregnant.

You also didn't pay close attention to the part about the side effects of birth control pills, which millions of women tolerate, but hormonal pills for men didn't get approved because they couldn't stand lesser side effects.

What's a load of crap is saying women are responsible when it's the ejaculations of men that cause pregnancy.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #3)

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:47 PM

99. Uh, it is a load of crap

It's called Misandry. Basically the hate of the male half of our species. If this were said about women, there would calls of "Misogyny, Misogyny!!" from the mountain tops.

All good men and good women must start to call out hate of ANYONE whenever hate rears its' ugly head.

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Response to blue-wave (Reply #99)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:23 PM

100. This is not Misandry.

Maybe you feel challenged by it, but that doesn't mean she is exhibiting hate of males. She is challenging us to be responsible. Do you have a better answer to the problem of unwanted pregnancies? Feel free to chime in.

I did not feel hate from this article. Actually, quite the opposite. It's not easy to hear because men typically do not consider accidentally ejaculating in a woman to be much of their problem. Some individuals do rise to the responsibility but as a whole, men have been pretty fucking awful to women throughout known history. Saying we need to be responsible when having sex is not oppression or hate. And I don't think she crossed that line between telling us to get our shit together and actually hating on men.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #100)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:46 PM

112. well said n/t

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #100)

Sun May 12, 2019, 11:07 AM

131. Yes

And I think she is giving men the chance to view sex and pregnancies from a different perspective, to hopefully understand a woman's point of view. The world would be a better place if everyone made an effort to see the world through other people's eyes and if they would seriously consider the consequences of their actions. She also asked men what price are they willing to have another person pay in exchange for their own pleasure?

This is not a man-hating essay. This is an opportunity to reevaluate our attitudes toward sex and relationships and the part men play in those relationships. I think most men are capable of that.

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Response to blue-wave (Reply #99)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:30 PM

102. Perhaps a Little Cheese with that Whine...

Men behave irresponsibly, then blame women & punish them. This is misandry? Seriously...

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Response to blue-wave (Reply #99)

Mon May 13, 2019, 10:54 PM

178. Misandry is a steaming load of crap. I'm the fortunate child of fierce Wild West matriarchy.

My wild west great grandmas had little tolerance for bad men.

Both my grandpas had great potential as bad men. Fortunately their mothers and mother-in-laws held them close.

My last immigrant ancestor to the U.S.A. was a mail order bride to Salt Lake city. She didn't like sharing a husband so she ran off with an Army surveyor who was passing through town. She lived longer than he did and the homestead she established was always hers, whether he was away surveying or dead.

My wife's family is of a similar fiercely matriarchal tradition.

I live white male Anglo privilege every day. It stinks.

No, I am not "self-loathing."

My ego has never failed me.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #3)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:36 PM

105. well the part that men bear equal responsibility is truth

it's 50/50.

Of course, women can get pregnant more than 2 days a month. Sperm can live up to a week, so it just needs to still be viable around the time she ovluates, which can vary even in a single woman by a considerable amount.

The bottom line is that this has nothing to do with who is responsible for the pregnancy, it's about the who is in control of a woman's body and her right to control her own reproduction process.

It's either her right, or it isn't. I don't care who is "responsible" for the pregnancy, or in what percentage.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #105)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:13 AM

115. EXACTLY!!!!

Women should have 100% control over their own bodies, PERIOD, as men do and we would not be getting out in the weeds with this discussion on % Of blame for unwanted pregnancies.IMHO.

...Iím a male so there is no way I can possibly understand in full the frustration & fear women are put through by the powers that be in our society...OLD CRUSTY WHITE MEN who feel intimidated by smart independent energetic women that want to chart their own paths in life!

ÖHaving said that, I do understand why the author & countless women would feel exactly as the author describes so I canít personally criticize her. Geez, I would be pissed too, I AM PISSED!

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Response to SkyDaddy7 (Reply #115)

Sun May 12, 2019, 09:50 AM

128. Let's be clear

It's not just crusty old white men, even a substantial amount of women too.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:22 PM

8. No

it is a very rational argument... and makes perfect sense... ALL unwanted pregnancies are caused by MEN... if we had an enforced law that significantly punished the man who impregnated the woman, things would change- quickly!

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:31 PM

12. Not a bit surprised this is the very first response

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Response to kcr (Reply #12)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:17 PM

32. Posted 4 minutes after OP

Couldn't have possibly read even half of it.

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Response to Cirque du So-What (Reply #32)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:53 PM

64. Bingo!

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Response to Cirque du So-What (Reply #32)

Sun May 12, 2019, 09:24 AM

127. +1

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:32 PM

13. It is the absolute truth!

Good on this mother!

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:33 PM

14. How so?

Seems like a very logical & tight argument. I'd love to hear what makes you call it 'unhinged', of all possible descriptions...?



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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:46 PM

19. LOL

let's hear your analysis

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:55 PM

24. Not at all "unhinged".

That actually sounds like something misogynists or misogynist-enablers say to women whenever we dare express our opinions and frankly, I'm surprised to see this in a progressive forum.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #24)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:02 PM

48. This is typical from this poster.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #48)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:07 PM

51. Looking at the history of posts and when joined

I'd be willing to bet he/she is a plant/troll

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Response to relayerbob (Reply #51)

Mon May 13, 2019, 08:39 AM

164. I don't agree with that poster, but it isn't cool to call another DUer a troll.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:02 PM

25. In what way?

Please, elaborate.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:11 PM

29. It's not even close to unhinged. It's the truth.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:07 PM

72. That is 100% factual.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:16 PM

76. SHOCKED this is the first comment

Not.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:18 PM

109. Child

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Sun May 12, 2019, 10:51 AM

130. She uses a logically based argument to support her comments

Perhaps you could do the same for yours?

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #1)

Mon May 13, 2019, 03:22 PM

166. No, it is not, dream on if you think men will walk free if women are forced to give birth against

their will. There are paternity tests now.

Lawsuits will become the norm.

I propose a 2 million dollar bond for every man without a vasectomy. That can be drawn upon for unwanted pregnancies.

Men either need to step up and speak out about why they think abortions need to be kept safe and legal, or they will start being asked to pay for their irresponsible sex.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 01:58 PM

2. Wow.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:13 PM

4. And from a Mormon woman who is thinking with her head.....

Brava Madame!!!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:13 PM

5. You Tell 'Em, Gabrielle!

I always used condoms for contraception. I did so carefully. I did not want to reproduce, for reasons I won't go into here. I did not want my partners to have to take hormonal contraceptives, either, and they didn't want to, themselves. So, condoms it was.

Not a problem. Never a problem. Not even if I ran out of them. If I did, I didn't have sex until I got some more.

Men don't have to have sex. We get along fine if we don't. In my 20s, when I was in the USAF, I didn't have opportunities to have sex, so I didn't. It caused me no problems, really.

So, you tell them, Gabrielle. You're right. Men need to take responsibility for their lives and not expect women to make up for their lack of responsibility.

You're absolutely right. Every unwanted pregnancy was caused by a man. Every last one of them. Men can use contraception, too. And they should! Let women decide if they want to bear a child. Men don't have to bear children. Women do. Don't force them to.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:16 PM

6. Thank you. The World needs more guys like you! n/t

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Sun May 12, 2019, 11:59 AM

136. How we raise our boys

has a lot to do with what kind of men they will become. It is easier to teach them at a young age how to be caring and considerate human beings, than try to reeducate them as adults. There is a reason why so many men feel entitled and it goes back to the way they were raised. The world has changed considerably and we need to change the way we raise our children. The age of "boys will be boys" or "he just needs to sow his wild oats" must end.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:17 PM

7. This is impressive and I hope one day

she can go even further and apply such insights into what Joseph Smith was doing in the 1800's. The multiple wives were for his own pleasure.

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Response to Stargleamer (Reply #7)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:35 PM

15. Perhaps Joseph Smith and his teachings are the reason

for this mother's rant?

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #15)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:27 PM

110. More than likely not

Many Mormons are under the impression that Joesph Smith only married Emma and that Brigham Young started polygamy.

Growing up LDS they never talked about Joseph marrying others in Church, it was never a topic in the official manuals - with the internet that has changes but there are still a lot of very uninformed members, both in regards to history and doctrine. If polygamy was ever mentioned, which was super rare, it was almost always about Brigham Young.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #110)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:31 PM

111. Thanks for the information, FreeState!

Did not know this about Brigham Young vs Joseph Smith.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:23 PM

9. Also Eradicate the Forced Birth - Women are Utensils Culture. n/t

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Response to MarcA (Reply #9)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:44 PM

156. I think the term is "vessels", not "utensils." And you're right. n/t

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:23 PM

10. Love this!

thanks for posting this. Those who protest abortion are smug in their simple belief that they have the right to control women. This is rooted in the religious belief that women are property of men. Men don't cause unwanted pregnancies, evil women do and they must be punished.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:24 PM

11. Wow.

Brava!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:36 PM

16. Great Post.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:39 PM

17. PREACH IT, SISTER!! Dayum, that is RIGHTEOUS TRUE!! n/t

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:39 PM

18. Great post

Rec

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:48 PM

20. Love this. K&R n/t

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:50 PM

21. You go Girl!

Used to live in Utah,heard this from many a Mormon Mommy. As their so called Profit tells them,go forth and reproduce. Oh btw,don't forget your Tithing each week.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #21)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:55 PM

46. Profit

that is so true!

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Response to shanti (Reply #46)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:13 PM

55. You caught that.

Inside joke of Utah.

Our Neighbor in Utah was one of these Mormon Mommies with Six Kids and her Hubby had another Family three blocks down the Street. Different Ward Boundary as so Mommy number one would not figure out what the Heck. Oh and yes,he did ditch Mommy one for Mommy two with two kids and pregnant with another. Oh and Mommy number one ended up on the Social Welfare Rolls cause her Hubby was given a pass by the local County Mormon Judge as far as any finical support. The Bishop's in her Ward declared her unfit in a letter to this Judge.

So goes life in Utah.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #55)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:41 PM

60. Why any woman would go along with that is beyond me.


Mormonism sounds like the most misogynistic religion Ever!

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Response to flying_wahini (Reply #60)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:48 PM

62. There are more of these

life stories from our twelve years in that City. When you have mandatory Marriage and Family Education classes in your Public Schools,and all Females are required to have these Classes on their 11 or 12 th grade Curriculum,you know how this could and does happen. Oh btw,another Course is Wedding Planning.

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Response to flying_wahini (Reply #60)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:24 PM

101. As long as they are old enough to marry

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #55)

Sat May 11, 2019, 06:32 PM

89. Was dude a polygamist?

Sounds like one of the Family.

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Response to shanti (Reply #89)

Sat May 11, 2019, 07:11 PM

92. His Grand father was a Plig.

No on the Plig part. Just a Construction Superintendent for the Major Road Construction Company in Utah and Nevada. Mommy number two came along during a major Job out of Town that lasted a couple of years or so. The new Mommy and his two Kids were moved into a Townhouse about three or so blocks south of us. Here was the real kicker. The night his oldest daughter from Mommy number one,Graduated from High School,well that was the night he showed off Mommy number two to Mommy number one.

Our Neighborhood was the true Peyton Place.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #55)

Sun May 12, 2019, 11:42 AM

133. The judge actually said he didn't have to pay child support?

Please tell me this guy did not get custody of the children.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #133)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:57 PM

147. Yes sir re.

Same Judge ruled in favor of the Hubby and made the ditched Spouse pay Child Care and Alimony in several cases.

Family acquaintance just ended her Child Care this past Winter due to the Child becoming eighteen. She is about to go back to court in order to settle her Ex's complaint over missing Alimony payments.

The Municipal Government Agency she was employed,was Privatized as of the first of the year. So her Job with Benefits went away leaving her high and dry. Last we heard was her Unemployment has a couple months to run. And she has her House up for sale and that is going to get messy because of her Ex slapping liens on the property.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:52 PM

22. A big, fat K&R!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 02:54 PM

23. K and R

She made some great points.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:02 PM

26. This needs to be spread far and wide!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:03 PM

27. I have always known anti-women activists don't care about abortions - they want CONTROL

CONTROL of a woman's body, choices, options, lives.

As a male, married for 25 years to the love of my life, and father to 5 children, including 3 daughters that I would instantly die to protect, I find everything in that twitter thread to be 100% spot on. My boys were first informed of condoms and the necessity for them before they hit puberty. They KNOW it is their responsibility to prevent becoming a father until or IF they and their partner CHOOSE to do so. I pray that they remember what they have been taught when it really matters, but they are definitely NOT sheltered from their responsibility by religious BS or chauvinistic tripe or misogynistic hate while in my house.

Men have a role in preventing abortions (if they find it a concern at all, which it should only be for THEIR families and NOT the public at large, where they have NO business inserting themselves into the most intimate and personal decisions of a woman's life) they need to be serious about enforcing the responsibilities or procreation EQUALLY POST CONCEPTION. No child EVER came into the world without sperm being planted into a vagina in some manner (and NO, Jesus or Hercules or any of the myriad of supposed 'virgin births' were NOT real).

The blatant and constant hypocrisy of those on the wrong side of liberty is sickening these days across all issues and party lines.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #27)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:21 PM

34. You're a great dad!

Thanks for raising decent, thoughtful kids!

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Response to Moostache (Reply #27)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:04 PM

50. Thank YOU!

Your children are lucky to have such a great father. And it's nice to know that there are men in the world who think like you do.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #27)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:36 PM

58. BRILLIANT!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:03 PM

28. If we men think enough of a woman to want to have sex

with her then it is our responsibility as men to make it both safe for our partner and adding to her mental pleasure by reducing her worry of an unwanted pregnancy which serves no one well. Seems pretty simple.
Good post!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:15 PM

30. Truth

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:16 PM

31. She's absolutely right. K&R. nt

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:20 PM

33. Absolutely brilliant!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:22 PM

35. She is 100% correct

I had a vasectomy as soon as possible after I married Stephanie. She had been on the pill, but hated the side effects. We had agreed early on that we would not bear children. Our reasons were different, but led to the same conclusion. For me, it was the rationale that every social problem you can name is caused, at least in part, by too damn many people on this planet. Her reason was an abusive childhood which she had no wish to perpetuate, So, for us the choice was vasectomy or tubal ligation. Total no brainer. I was back at work the next day without problems. I can report no issues with sexual pleasure or side effects in the more than 3 decades since the procedure, and perhaps more importantly, zero unwanted pregnancies. Success!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:23 PM

36. Rarely do I read posts this long

But this was 100% spot on!

My husband continues to think that a man should have a say in whether the woman can get an abortion. NOPE! I shut the door on that idea immediately.

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Response to leftieNanner (Reply #36)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:15 PM

75. "A man should have a say."

So if they disagree, who ultimately gets to decide? Does he think a man should be able to force a woman to have an abortion, or to prohibit her from having one? Because if the actual decision is up to the woman in the end, what the hell is the point of "a man should have a say"?

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Response to Mariana (Reply #75)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:25 PM

79. Exactly!

He thinks if the woman doesn't want to continue with the pregnancy, that the man should be able to force her to do so if he wants the baby - in an abstract sense. I told him a flat-out NO. My body. My decision. We did not go through this scenario ourselves and he never hesitated to use condoms when I was unable to continue taking oral contraceptives. And then, after our second child was born, he had a visit with Dr. Taylor and had a vasectomy. This was a magical elixir for our sex life. Can't make any more babies! WAHOO!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:24 PM

37. ACCOUNTABILITY.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:24 PM

38. aaaamen!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:26 PM

39. Brutally honest.

Truth often hurts. Can't say I agree with the solution, but I don't see anything factually incorrect.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:35 PM

40. K&R!

Leaving on a trip tomorrow. Will download to read on the plane.

Thanks for posting this, CousinIT!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:35 PM

41. Wow. Say it, sister!

for Truth...

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:39 PM

42. Brilliant!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:47 PM

44. I second the above comment

"Brutally Honest". Preach it!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:49 PM

45. Fantastic!! Highly recommend!!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 03:57 PM

47. This should be spread far and wide!

WAPO, are you listening?

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:02 PM

49. Well thought out & makes perfect sense. nt

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:11 PM

52. I love this woman's ideas!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:13 PM

53. There are women who hate condoms or have allergic reactions

Polyisoprene condoms are an alternative for those with latex allergies.

And then there is always vasectomy for the more permanent option.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #53)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:01 PM

70. I wish they would make them affordable.

I told my dr I wanted a vasectomy earlier this year. I went through all of the required appointments and scheduled the surgery. Two weeks before it, the hospital calls and says insurance wonít cover vasectomies. They offered it to me for a discount but was still required to pay $6,800 as a down payment. I make $1,400 a month for a family of 5. I didnít have any other choice but to cancel.

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Response to Quackers (Reply #70)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:18 PM

77. That's insane!

Wonder why your insurance wouldn't cover it?! You're darn right it should be made more affordable!

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Response to Ohiogal (Reply #77)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:21 PM

78. It's considered an elective procedure and not medically necessary.

Iím in Ohio too.

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Response to Quackers (Reply #78)

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:30 PM

96. $20 says they cover Viagra though.

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Response to Quackers (Reply #78)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:10 PM

139. That not only is insane,

it is bad business. A pregnancy would cost the insurance company a hell of lot more than a vasectomy. You would think health insurance companies would be thrilled to pay for anything that prevents pregnancies.

Edit to add: That they should even offer discounts or incentives for men who do get vasectomies!

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Response to Quackers (Reply #70)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:51 PM

85. Have you checked your local planned parenthood?

Some of them offer it at an affordable cost. There are also independent clinics that will charge a fixed price without insurance. You might be able to find one for a few hundred bucks. $6,800 sounds like a mistake, or the arbitrary high price they cite before a good insurance company would tell them where to shove it. It's a simple outpatient procedure, but the ACA doesn't mandate it.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/vasectomy/how-do-i-get-vasectomy

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Response to Quackers (Reply #70)

Sat May 11, 2019, 06:08 PM

86. Oh, wow.

I was lucky; I was in the Army when I had mine. So it was free. (Even though the doctor was clumsy and caused me a world of pain.)

Speaking of pain, Gabrielle says that the discomfort of a vasectomy lasts only about 24 hours. For some men, maybe. For me--I couldn't walk for two weeks.

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Response to trev (Reply #86)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:33 PM

104. Mil hospital did mine too.

Mil hospital did mine too.

12 or 15 guys, each with a driver.
I was third.
Flipped off the towel they covered my eyes with and watched them do the second side.
Just like a piece of spaghetti.

Went back out into the waiting room and told my girlfriend "OK, no more puppies".

Not one smile. Not one chuckle.

That was one bunch of serious folks.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:13 PM

54. All of the reasons why my dad told me I was responsible

And it was my responsibility to take care of any and all partners...

It is also why I am so strongly and vehemently pro-choice.

L-

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:13 PM

56. Thank you

for telling it like it is. I have already passed this on to a widespread audience.

Many thanks.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:15 PM

57. Fantastic!

It has been said that (paraphrasing here) if men had babies, abortion would be a sacrament.

I wish I could rec this a million times!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:44 PM

61. This needs to be read on the floor of Congress.

100% agree. Especially the part about male oral contraception and minor "side effects" that got it disapproved. Men who make these decisions are way too used to letting women deal with consequences if it otherwise would inconvenience them or reduce their enjoyment of the act.

Also, "pulling out" isn't great birth control. Pre-ejaculate can contain sperm.

The only way to stop abortion is to make proper sexual education universal (like starting at age 7 in school, seriously) and access to male and female birth control easy, affordable, and un-shamable. Harshly legislating one without yielding on the other is madness.

I've been reading stupid, stupid people on Twitter all day criticizing #sexstrike as unreasonable. Yeah, it might seem unreasonable for a woman to do the one thing that will 100% avoid pregnancy WITHOUT birth control, but that's better than the government taking control of her body after four weeks or being tried for murder if something goes wrong.

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Response to forgotmylogin (Reply #61)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:59 PM

68. So if two people have heterosexual sex only the man is responsible if there is a pregnancy?

This reminds me of back in the days when they said women do not enjoy sex or don't have orgasms.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #68)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:33 PM

80. He needs to pay for the pain and suffering and risk of life this his

irresponsible sex caused the woman by getting her pregnant. Period. If men donít want that, then they should not have sex unprotected. Get a vasectomy. Take responsibility.

Bullshit on this old line that getting pregnant is somehow the womanís fault. There is no such things as spontaneous generations of pregnancy. It all happens because a man wanted an orgasm unprotected. Or the birth control failed. But the woman, if forced birth does become law, is the one who risks her life by producing a baby and giving birth to it. Higher risk that being in the military, being a firefighter of a policeman. All paid gigs. Who is paying women to go through all this?

Time to bill the men who cause it.

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #80)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:43 PM

83. "Bullshit on this old line that getting pregnant is somehow the woman's fault."

so, the author quoted in the OP, it's not her fault she has six kids? Are you saying, she is just a victim?

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Response to Doodley (Reply #83)

Sat May 11, 2019, 07:27 PM

93. If she wanted and had six kids, her choice.

I knew a woman who claimed she loved being pregnant. She had five kids and was working on #6 when I met her. She was pissed because her husband was talking about getting a vasectomy after "this one", because it was just getting too expensive for them.
She had easy pregnancies, and short labor, and kept talking about "that new baby smell". So for her, it wasn't a major chore or danger. And she was distinctly, almost militantly pro-choice.
For me now... there's a reason I never had kids. I don't have the physiology. It would always be painful and dangerous, and I'm thankful for the ability to choose not to shorten my life being forced by social expectations to be someone's brood mare.

Haele

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Response to Doodley (Reply #83)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:06 PM

137. No, I'm saying the man should pay for the pain and suffering and risk of life that he caused

Was the pregnancy spontaneous generation?

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #137)

Mon May 13, 2019, 02:09 AM

163. So having sex should be a financial arrangement?

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Response to Doodley (Reply #163)

Mon May 13, 2019, 03:19 PM

165. If the man causes an unwanted pregnancy

and the woman is unable to terminate it, then he should pay for pain suffering, loss of work time, risk of death, etc. He needs to pay his share of this result.

Have abortions being freely available allowed an entire generation of men to imagine that they bear no responsibility for outcomes of sex?

The women have to take the body debilitating birth control, or risk getting pregnant.

If you take away the option of aborting unwanted pregnancies, then men need to be obligated to participate in paying for the pain, suffering and risk of life that goes with pregnancy . Do you think that a woman on her own is supposed to bear all of these financial and risk of life costs on her own?

The woman will not be able to get out of it, why will the men be able to?

What is your answer to that?

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #165)

Mon May 13, 2019, 07:54 PM

167. So, a pre-sex financial agreement, that states that if the

woman becomes pregnant, the man needs to pay the woman.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #167)

Wed May 15, 2019, 03:50 PM

179. No, it it common law that anyone causing someone bodily harm

has to pay compensation.

So, who does not know this?

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #80)

Sun May 12, 2019, 08:33 AM

119. sorry that is so much bull shit. Two people have sex two people are responsible.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #119)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:08 PM

138. But the woman is the only one being forced to go through a pregnancy

If pregnancy was not being forced, then the whole matter changes.

We are talking about forcing women to give birth.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #68)

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:02 PM

94. I don't believe you got the point of the essay.

She wasn't trying to say only the man is responsible at all, she's saying the man is more responsible biologically than people give them credit for.

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Response to forgotmylogin (Reply #94)

Sun May 12, 2019, 08:36 AM

120. Why do I have to get the point of the essay? I don't think it is valid.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #120)

Sun May 12, 2019, 11:35 AM

132. You said "two people have sex two people are responsible"

Which is the point of the essay, which was explaining how currently the majority of responsibility is weighted toward the female.

It doesn't say the man should take all responsibility which was the post I replied to: "So if two people have heterosexual sex only the man is responsible if there is a pregnancy?"

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:48 PM

63. Yes, yes and yes! nt

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:55 PM

65. Thank you for sharing this subject matter from your perspectives....

.... I am sure you enlightened and have awaken a few folks on this communications sharing board.

You are also a good writer and keep the attentions of your audience with minimal effort - with a dash of humor.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 04:55 PM

66. I fully expect to get flamed, but this is why a lot of people have negative perceptions of feminism.

As long as the sex is consensual, the woman is just as much responsible for what happens as the man. Arguing otherwise implies that women aren't capable of making their own reproductive decisions. And there are so many absolute falsehoods in that Twitter thread... like "pregnancy can't happen unless a man orgasms". Ever heard of pre-ejaculate?

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #66)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:46 PM

84. Exactly, and you shouldn't get flamed for stating basic facts.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #84)

Mon May 13, 2019, 08:13 PM

172. The most basic fact is that men don't get pregnant.

That's just biology.

If there was a fifty percent chance the man would get pregnant and the woman wouldn't then your objections might have some merit.

The "both sides" argument is bullshit.

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Response to hunter (Reply #172)

Mon May 13, 2019, 08:20 PM

173. Are you saying a woman isn't ever responsible for agreeing to let a man's penis enter her?

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Response to Doodley (Reply #173)

Mon May 13, 2019, 09:01 PM

174. Congratulations on missing the point entirely.

Your response speaks for itself.

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Response to hunter (Reply #174)

Mon May 13, 2019, 09:14 PM

175. You wrote: "The both sides argument is bullshit," implying the woman isn't

as responsible as the man, given the context of your post. Personally, I give women more credit.

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Response to Doodley (Reply #175)

Mon May 13, 2019, 10:20 PM

176. Biological fact: Men don't get pregnant.

The biological consequences of a pregnancy for a woman are extreme, potentially even fatal.

For males consequences are non-existent or merely financial. (Unless you are thinking of bad old days when black men who had sex with white women, consensual or not, were often killed. Or similar horrors.)

Personally, fathering an unwanted child was never anything I had to worry about. Any child born in my family's cultural tradition is automatically a wanted child. None are left to the wolves.

But if you want to talk about youthful relationships gone hellishly wrong, I can show you my scars.

I think anyone who enters into sexual relationship ought to be willing to take on 100% of the responsibility for whatever goes wrong. That's what I was taught.

It is at once both a comforting and terrifying cultural tradition. My siblings and I didn't have children until we were in stable relationships and able to support them. We also knew about sex, relationships, birth control, the entire messy business, years before we had any desire for sexual relationships.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #66)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:33 AM

116. Couldn't Agree More

The agreement with this nonsense is frightening.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #66)

Sun May 12, 2019, 09:24 AM

126. "Ever heard of pre-ejaculate?"

I noticed that problem also.

But other than that - I agree with it.

The thing of it is - that at least when I was growing up - the responsibility was all on the women. I think it is that way still - at least in the minds of 'conservatives'. Republicans would like to get society back to that 'golden age' (for them) - when women could be controlled through sex. With women having to be the body police - the sex police. With women having all the worry, and all the consequences. Meanwhile - men were encouraged to 'sow their wild oats' (which sounds a lot like rape to me). I'll bet if Republicans could manage it - they would do away with DNA tests so men could more freely impregnate women without consequence.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #66)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:14 PM

140. If they remove the right to remedy an unwanted pregnacy

Then the consequences of this consensual sex needs to be shared equitably.

What are your suggestions? How are women who will be forced to produce a child against their will be compensated for pain and suffering and risk of life?

This is a real issue coming up soon for many people.

Should the government pay for the baby to be produced, should men post a bond or get vasectomies unless bonds are posted?

How is it that only the women ever get stuck with the consequences?

Abortions allowed an out for many an unpleasant reality. If that is removed, then what?

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #66)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:36 PM

144. Not sure what planet you're from, but on Earth, ONLY women are held 100% responsible

Odd how you never noticed that it's women's bodies which are being subjected to reproductive slavery everywhere abortion and birth control are outlawed (most of the country now).

Yet, NOBODY is regulating male behavior AT ALL. EVEN when they rape someone. All the blame goes to the person he raped, NOT him.

Viagra commercials are on TV every 5 minutes or more but we N E V E R see an advert for contraception. EVER.

Odd that.

Just stating FACTS.

You can blame that on "feminism" if you want. But it won't change a thing.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:00 PM

69. Excellent post!

I have never understood why do many men have such a problem with abortion, anyway. Many of them have to be chased down when it comes to paying child support and being responsible. You would think they would be big supporters of abortion rights. I guess that proves that it really is all about controlling women. They don't really give a shit about the children they abandon.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #69)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:39 PM

82. Reads like an over-generalization of men.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:05 PM

71. Her best point is that unwanted pregnancies should cost men dearly, and I'm not talking money.

Losing your testicles would encourage masculine responsibility.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #71)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:31 PM

103. Oh, I see.

Genital mutilation is just fine when it comes to men. What an ennobled sentiment.

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Response to GaYellowDawg (Reply #103)

Sun May 12, 2019, 08:49 AM

122. The first idea is bull shit then they top it off with castration. It is a sick combination.

These women should just masturbate and stay away from sex with men.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #122)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:18 PM

142. It sounds like you need to stay away from sex yourself

If you think men bear no responsibility.

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #142)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:09 PM

151. Plus a gazillion!

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #142)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:32 PM

154. Did I say that? Men and women are responsible

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #154)

Sun May 12, 2019, 04:25 PM

158. Yes, but only the women will be forced to produce a baby unpaid and unsupported.

That is the point of all of this.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #122)

Sun May 12, 2019, 05:44 PM

160. I do not support what you've said.

Women have a right to be white-hot angry about anti-abortion laws, and irresponsible men, and even angrier about the combination of the two that are present. They shouldn't have to limit their activity. Men should be more responsible. I completely agree with that. Women should never have to raise unwanted children, and men should be hounded for missing child support payments the way that students are hounded for missing student loan payments.

Where I disagree is the whole castration thing. It is barbaric. It's like proposing that if a woman nurses while being a substance abuser, she should have her nipples cut off. Physical mutilation should never be proposed as a punishment for any action.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:09 PM

73. Great column!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:14 PM

74. It's so ridiculously simple!

UNWANTED PREGNANCIES ARE CAUSED BY MEN.

The end.

Laws should regulate men, not women. I'm embarrassed to admit that I, a lifelong feminist, have been totally scammed by men telling women that pregnancy is totally her fault. No more!

I loved this article. It really opened my eyes and brought a new prospective to this issue that never occurred to me.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 06:19 PM

87. Unwanted pregnancies are caused by men and their irresponsible ejaculation. We need to keep saying

that.

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #87)

Sun May 12, 2019, 08:45 AM

121. Unless it is rape that idea is bull shit! Women want sex too. It takes both sperm and egg for a

pregnancy. Men can use birth control methods as women can.



Two people have sex each knowing it could result in pregnancy. Each is responsible if the sex results in pregnancy.

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #87)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:38 PM

145. +1 n/t

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 06:31 PM

88. I just hope that in my lifetime this will be read on the house flooor and

becomes law. Im 65 and did not know this. Bravo!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 06:45 PM

90. Great post!

Just brilliant. And true. Yes to reading it in Congress, and every freaking statehouse.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 07:01 PM

91. Cynic says...

Catholic bishops (men) want more believers in church, businessmen want more customers, politicians (almost all men until fairly recently) want more subjects/power, and greedy rich men want to discourage poor people from having sex leading to children that need tax support.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:16 PM

95. K & R, Tweeted, & FB Like. N/T

Last edited Sat May 11, 2019, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:33 PM

97. K & R & Retweeted & Bookmarked!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 08:44 PM

98. Men take responsibility, vasectomy.

I lived with a medical student in college. I heard how complicated and little understood the endocrine system is. That is what the birth control pill tinkered with. The side effects were many and poorly understood. I didn't want my wife taking those chances so after our second child was born and we decided that was all the children we could effectively raise, I got a vasectomy. It was quick and easy. I never regretted it for a minute.

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Response to SMoss (Reply #98)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:20 PM

143. Years ago,

my brother-in-law got a vasectomy and my sister said it improved their sex life dramatically. Men would be doing themselves a huge favor by having the procedure done. Once a woman doesn't have the threat of an unwanted pregnancy hanging over her head, she becomes much more relaxed and enthusiastic.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:41 PM

106. Great post k&r

should be read by all state legislators...

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 09:49 PM

107. If men could get pregnant

Donald's abortion bill.






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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:48 PM

113. thank you for posting this

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sat May 11, 2019, 11:57 PM

114. Excellent post. Thanks for the detailed unrolled thread.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 01:38 AM

117. How can this get into a mainstream media

as an opinion piece?

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 04:26 AM

118. The poster who calls this "unhinged"

is someone ALL women should beware.

Right on!

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 08:55 AM

123. If you are a woman who thinks this way, why not just masturbate if you get horny? Why would you

ever want to have sex with a man? For you, even if you want to get pregnant, it isn't your actions that are responsible for it. How fuck up an idea is that?

What man would want to have sex with you if you informed him before hand that any resulting pregnancy will be his fault? Or that you bare no responsibility if pregnancy results.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #123)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:17 PM

141. Why do men currently bear no responsibility? Think about that?

And if you force women to produce a baby every time she is impregnated, then either the forced father or the government needs to step up and pay for the consequences.

I think the point of all this is to bring up the fact that once abortion becomes illegal again, and women are forced to give birth, then what?

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #141)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:33 PM

155. Who in the hell said men don't bare any responsibility?

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #155)

Sun May 12, 2019, 04:34 PM

159. What planet are you living on?

Men just get up and go, women are the ones producing the child, if forced birthing becomes the law of the land, there needs to be a way of getting men to do something. Or even their fare share would be a start.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 10:28 AM

129. If only there was something that could be done.....

If we are to remove all nuance and accept the black and white premise of this post, which I do, then there should be an equally black and white solution. One solution is for women to unite and vote the all the turds out of office. That is not going to happen though, is it.

The Susan Collins (among other influences for sure) of the world will insure that women will lose control of their own bodies.

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Response to the_sly_pig (Reply #129)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:57 PM

146. Women can stop having sex with men, and elect more women to public office & more women can run.

Men who seek to sexually and reproductively enslave females should be shamed to hell and back (rape culture and forced incubation and birth), denied "services" - esp free labor of childbearing and childrearing, housework, caretaking of children and elderly, whatever. SO MUCH of women's work IS women's work for FREE (that's a whole other problem). They have a LOT of leverage should they choose to USE it. Lysistrata++

Denying an adult bodily autonomy is slavery. Plain and simple. Sarah Geer explains on "Quora"

Well for starters the real issue ISNíT whether a fetus is a human life or not. The real issue is bodily autonomy rights.

Even if one were to pretend a nonviable, nonsentient fetus is a full person due rights under the law, the bodily autonomy issue remains: no person in our society is allowed to use the bodies or organs of other people unless they have that personís EXPRESS POSITIVE CONSENT, not even to save their own lives.

A man on the transplant list cannot force another man to donate him a kidney, even if that second man is the only match and the first will die without it.

A doctor may not take blood or organs from a corpse without that personís prior consent to posthumous organ donation, even to save the life of a dying child.

Thus a fetus cannot use a womanís body and organs against her will and without her express consent. Contrary to popular claim by conservatives, sex is not consent to pregnancy (my consent for a man to have use of my vagina is NOT consent for a third party to take over my uterus and use my entire body for 40 weeks), and POSITIVE INFORMED consent is required for organ donation or use to begin with.

And the reason there is so much ďhateĒ on this issue is because one side believes women are simply THINGS the moment they have sex; that they are nothing more than incubators who must risk their lives and health whether they want to or not in order to give birth. That they give up their rights to their bodies the instant they have sex.

The other side thinks women are actual people.

Can you see why there might be some impassioned disagreement here?


This explains why EVEN if sex is "consensual" and the woman fully participates, that does not mean SHE wants to be an incubator or have children and that nobody, at any time, for any reason under any circumstance should have the right to force her into that. Males separate sex and pregnancy/childbearing/childrearing. What a luxury they have to be able to do that! Women do not separate the two. They can't.

A male who dislikes that idea that his sperm may end up producing a fetus that the female he has "chosen" to impregnate (though most of them don't even think about that in that moment) may then abort - should not irresponsibly ejaculate in or near her, in that case. IOW, rather than controlling her, he ought to control himself. That is the scope of male choice in the matter and they do have that choice. Unfortunately, too many of them rarely think about or exercise that choice. The head which is engaged is too often only the one below the waist. Females don't have that luxury.

And by far the BIGGEST FACTOR in all this and the basis upon which sexual & reproductive enslavement laws are written and passed: Our society, government, religions, and legal system do not require males to act responsibly. ALL that responsibility is laid upon the female entirely. Even if she is raped.

It's NOT, nor has it ever been an "equal" responsibility of the woman. It has always been 100% her responsibility.

That needs to change. That's what the OP addresses.

Many men raise their sons to be equally responsible in spite of the asinine, sharia-like nature of our religions, laws, society and government - some fabulous ones replied to this thread. I praise them to the heavens.

Others, (most, unfortunately) do not. Because they don't have to. "Christianity" will protect them. The US gov't will protect them. Society will protect them. Our fucked-up laws written by men like them will protect them. The penchant by all the aforementioned for placing ALL the blame and responsibility for unplanned/unwanted pregnancy on females even when they're raped - will protect them.

And I think women are saying: ENOUGH. And I think females should say ENOUGH and they should say it in NO uncertain terms and with every iota of leverage they can muster to do it. Until this crap changes EVERYWHERE.

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Response to CousinIT (Reply #146)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:20 PM

153. Exactly, CousinIt.

Kudos, bravo, and thank you for saying it all so clearly. I could not possibly say it any better!

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Response to CousinIT (Reply #146)

Mon May 13, 2019, 02:03 AM

162. Exactly.

So it should be pretty easy to implement because everyone will agree to it.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 11:46 AM

134. That's alot of words

Glad that problem is solved.....

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 11:49 AM

135. She's factually wrong about at least one thing

"Did you know that a man CAN'T get a woman pregnant without having an orgasm?"

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #135)

Mon May 13, 2019, 08:03 PM

169. You are right. She doesn't even understand the basics.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 01:25 PM

148. Men cause pregnancies


Go girl you are 100% correct. I for one am so feed up with men controlling or attempting to control women's bodies. The other option is absolute denial of conjugal rights to men. I would love to see every heterosexual woman married or not take a 6 month hiatus from sexual activity with men, as many times as it takes to get what we need for our reproductive health and access to any care we and our doctors (female, of course) see fit.

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Response to bigbadR (Reply #148)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:01 PM

150. +1 n/t

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Response to bigbadR (Reply #148)

Mon May 13, 2019, 07:59 PM

168. Do you assume that "every heterosexual woman, married or not" would be happy without

sex for six months? You talk as if only men have sexual desires.

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Response to bigbadR (Reply #148)

Mon May 13, 2019, 08:03 PM

170. How does this work exactly?

These posts calling for women to ďwithholdĒ sex from men are just bizarre to me.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 02:00 PM

149. Huge kick and rec.

There are a couple of important points that stood out for me: " as a society, we don't care if women suffer, physically or mentally, as long as it makes it easier for men ". Bravo for saying it! This is a big part of the gist in this piece. I think that this really shows up in the misogyny demonstrated in some posters reply to this piece. They think that it is their privilege to ejaculate without protection in any woman they are with and that any resulting pregnancy is her fault, like they couldn't possibly have anything to do with it. Wow...just, wow. 🙄 Talk about making a case in point.Another great point: " if you are not holding men responsible for unwanted pregnancies, then you are wasting your time ", ( see unprotected ejaculation inside the woman). Bingo! Of course, most of us know what the anti-choice crowd is really all about: controlling women's bodies and lives. And punishing women for having sex.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 09:15 PM

161. Thank you so much for this amazing piece!

I am awestruck! I'm going to share it with as many women as I can.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Mon May 13, 2019, 08:06 PM

171. "Their own goddamned junk" Rather an offensive description. Can the OP at least appear to show

respect to men?

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Mon May 13, 2019, 10:20 PM

177. lol

I have, and always will make sure I don't get pregnant until I'm ready.

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Response to CousinIT (Original post)

Wed May 15, 2019, 03:56 PM

180. Bookmarked.

Brilliant and true.

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