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Thu May 9, 2019, 08:08 AM

Our Democracy At Risk.

Our democratic Republic is teetering on the brink. I never expected Trump to make it through his first term let alone a possible second term.

There is much discussion going on within our Democratic party concerning what action we should take. I see no problem with having debates about which course to follow. There are 3 extremely important issues that need to happen IMO, to save our democracy.

1. Don McGahn needs to testify before the House committee and needs to turn over all his documents.
2. Bob Mueller needs to testify before the House committee.
3. The entire Mueller report needs to be turned over to the appropriate people in Congress.
These 3 things need to happen before the 2020 election.

Donald Trump, Bill Barr, and Congressional Republicans are fighting like hell to prevent those 3 things from happening. Trump has issued a kingly edict that no documents related to the Mueller investigation be turned over to Congress, that no subpoenas will be honored. Trump's edict kills 1, 2, and 3.
Trump's game plan isn't to win, it's to delay everything until after he is reelected whereupon he will be crowned king of the United States. Also, the complicit M$M is in the mix, it will do its part to aid Trump become king.

To get 1, 2, and 3, Democrats will need to go through the courts, possibly to the SC and have to do it before the election. I read where 1 in 6 federal judges, right now, have been appointed by Trump. Democrats are going to have to make the argument in court for the court to expedite the judgments because of the upcoming election. Will Democrats have enough time by doing what we are doing, going through regular committee hearings?

Contrary to what some have said here, impeachment hearings carry more clout, more importance. It is my opinion that we stand a much better chance to get the courts to expedite their rulings when requested by an impeachment committee. This is my main reason for wanting an impeachment committee created, and time is ticking by in king Don's favor.

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply Our Democracy At Risk. (Original post)
watoos May 9 OP
spanone May 9 #1
FBaggins May 9 #24
llmart May 9 #2
doompatrol39 May 9 #4
watoos May 9 #7
johnnyfins May 9 #21
watoos May 9 #6
KPN May 9 #22
Ferrets are Cool May 9 #9
watoos May 9 #10
pangaia May 9 #14
mopinko May 9 #3
FakeNoose May 9 #5
watoos May 9 #8
INdemo May 10 #26
olegramps May 11 #27
Laura PourMeADrink May 9 #11
kentuck May 9 #12
spanone May 9 #15
cp May 9 #13
sop May 9 #16
watoos May 9 #19
sop May 9 #23
watoos May 9 #17
CrispyQ May 12 #28
saidsimplesimon May 9 #18
rustydog May 9 #20
MasonDreams May 9 #25

Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 08:12 AM

1. As Jerry Nadler said yesterday, the administration hasn't turned over 1 sheet of paper...

since the dems took control of the house. ON ANY MATTER.

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Response to spanone (Reply #1)

Thu May 9, 2019, 06:00 PM

24. How could that be possible?

The Mueller Report itself is obviously something the administration turned over. Not all of the pages are redacted.

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 08:29 AM

2. I'm actually not as optimistic as some on here.

I'm starting to believe that he is going to "win" a second term. Nothing has changed to make me believe otherwise. For instance, he continues to hold his rallies and they are covered by the mainstream TV stations every single morning. Just this morning, they talked about his rally of yesterday and showed the smiling, glowing crowd clapping and cheering him on. When have they ever showed one of our Dem candidates that much press? No, we are going to be and have already been subjected to clips of his rallies every time he has one. This has been going on since he was ensconced in our WH.

I think many on DU are convinced he will lose, but I'm not. I'm also not convinced he'll suffer any consequences for what we already know he's done.

We underestimate how many unconcerned and unintelligent people we have living in this country.

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Response to llmart (Reply #2)

Thu May 9, 2019, 08:39 AM

4. I'm with you on this...

 

I am someone who has the time and freedom and resources to stay up to date on almost every detail of what is going on, I have the luxury of being motivated and writing e-mails, donating money, etc. And I can barely keep up, and even I have to shut it off at points because it's overwhelming and I fear I'm going to break if I stay too obsessed with this stuff and my family will suffer (still not as much as they would if I disengaged completely, but there is a line). So I can't imagine how people working multiple jobs, people who don't have the resources I do, who have language barriers, who may not have an understanding of what is going on must feel.

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Response to doompatrol39 (Reply #4)

Thu May 9, 2019, 08:52 AM

7. Don't over-analyze the situation.

If Democrats turn out to vote like we did in 2018, we win. Trump's base is not going to expand.

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Response to watoos (Reply #7)

Thu May 9, 2019, 11:07 AM

21. His base doesn't have to expand...

...just the efforts of Russia do.

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Response to llmart (Reply #2)

Thu May 9, 2019, 08:50 AM

6. I agree the M$M is not our friend,

including msnbc. I only watch Nicolle and Rachel.

Don't lose heart because that is their game plan. Trump's base is what it is, it's not going to change, but it's not going to grow either.

Remember this, Trump won in 2016 with low overall turnout, Democrats stayed home. If Trump's base turns out and our base turns out, we win, even with all of their crookedness.

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Response to watoos (Reply #6)

Thu May 9, 2019, 11:15 AM

22. WE can't count on it not growing. People get attracted to perceived "winners" even if they are

in reality losers like this dumbfuck.

We all need to step up and do everything we personally can to support our representatives in Congress as they pursue investigative efforts and the rule of law; and more importantly, to defeat these bastards in 2020. Not that anyone here is, but this is not a time for complacency on the part of any democrat.

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Response to llmart (Reply #2)

Thu May 9, 2019, 09:24 AM

9. And we should never forget that NOTHING has happened to stop him from

STEALING ANOTHER ELECTION.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #9)

Thu May 9, 2019, 09:27 AM

10. On the other hand,

hopefully we learned from 2016. I still feel that the #1 reason for our 2018 blue tsunami was a rebuke of Donald Trump.

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Response to llmart (Reply #2)

Thu May 9, 2019, 10:39 AM

14. u r rite 100000%

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 08:39 AM

3. in these times, everything is at risk. the problem is so much bigger

than 1 man.
it is the end of a common reality that we are facing, and even if we take a majority in congress, we have so much work to do.

al gore wrote a book back in '04 called 'the assault on reason', predicting that our becoming untethered from facts and truth was gonna kill our democracy.
and it has gotten so much worse. it is a damn world emergency, not just an american emergency.
and really, of all of his crimes, the fact that we have imposed this mad man on the world is the one that upsets me the most.

like i tell people about my little farm- i smell the planet burning, do you?

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 08:50 AM

5. Don McGahn no longer works for the federal government

How is Chump able to prevent McGahn from testifying as a private citizen? If Mueller can come to the hearings and testify as a private citizen, McGahn can do the same. The only thing stopping him would be if he doesn't want to testify, he'll use Chump's claim of executive privilege as his excuse.

It seems that Mueller is already past that, because he DOES want to testify. Since I'm not a lawyer, maybe there's something in the fine print that I'm not aware of. I'm coming around to your way of thinking now. It seems the Dems have to go for broke and call this the "impeachment hearings" otherwise it's wasting time and getting nowhere.

Just sayin'



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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #5)

Thu May 9, 2019, 09:04 AM

8. McGahn can testify, if he wants,

but McGahn himself stated that he will not testify nor turn over documents until Trump's edict is resolved in the courts. In other words, McGahn doesn't have the balls, he wants to be forced to testify.

I agree about Mueller, I do have hope that he may get to testify regardless of Trump's edict, he may have to resign first. I'm not a lawyer either and maybe this situation is new to even lawyers, but can Mueller just show up to a House hearing even though Trump challenges his appearance in the courts?

Trump's claim of Executive privilege certainly won't hold water, but Trump doesn't want to win, he wants to delay everything in court until after the election. To me the most important thing is whether the courts will expedite everything?

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Response to watoos (Reply #8)

Fri May 10, 2019, 12:22 PM

26. McGahn is a fucking Repulican Wimp like Rosenstein.

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Response to INdemo (Reply #26)

Sat May 11, 2019, 05:01 PM

27. Wimp is too charitable. Rosenstein is back stabbing bastard. I hate all of today's Republican scum.

Republicans are the scum of earth. Bible beating hypocrites. They worship a nasty bastard like dogs licking assholes. The Republican Party is an atrocity that must be flushed down the toilet like a bad case of diarrhea. They contaminate everything they touch.

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 09:35 AM

11. Yes...win or lose..do it yesterday! Get it over with, make

a statement, then work on protecting vote.

600 prosecuters vs one person makes no sense.

Petition for impeachment to be delivered with 10 million sig's!!

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 09:37 AM

12. And Trump is probably complimenting and patting a few judges on the back already...

..anticipating that they will rule in his favor in the appeals process.

If so, they would need to recuse themselves.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #12)

Thu May 9, 2019, 10:44 AM

15. pat on the back? probably more like six figures in their banking accounts...

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 10:16 AM

13. 4. Get his tax returns

His financial crimes will hit the hardest, both to him and to his hate yokels who worship his "business success." It will be more clear to them that they've been duped, in simple terms: numbers.

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 10:46 AM

16. "When you strike at a King, you must kill him" - Ralph Waldo Emeraon

I'm all for impeaching Trump, but only if it drives him from office, not as some symbolic gesture. And we should all know by now Trump will never be convicted by the Senate.

The McConnell Bunch - the best politicians money can buy - will never be swayed. Trump is incapable of shame, he will not be chastised by being impeached in the House. Viewers will not see Trump asking for forgiveness and promising to be a better president on TV. The despotic charlatan will emerge stronger, and the whole quixotic exercise will only help him unify his base.

The last thing I want to see and hear, for the entire 2020 campaign, is Donald Trump bellowing, "I was found not guilty, and totally exonerated of all charges of collusion and obstruction by Congress...it was all a witch hunt by the 18 angry Democrats...re-elect me and I'll put Pelosi in jail!" If he can spin the Mueller Report into a complete exoneration, imagine what he'll do when the Senate actually finds him not guilty.

And after many months of witnessing Trump feeding more and more lies and bullshit to his hordes of unstable deplorables as they angrily cheer him on at those Bund Rallies, chanting "lock her up!" in unison and (literally) attacking the press, with corporate media doing their patented election season both-siderism and wall-to-wall coverage of Trump's every utterance again, all the while trying to make it all seem perfectly normal, this despicable POS will be re-elected.

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Response to sop (Reply #16)

Thu May 9, 2019, 11:05 AM

19. It's a given that we will never get 67 Senators

to convict a Republican president. You may as well say to House Democrats, don't bother impeaching any Republican president for high crimes and misdemeanors because you will never get a conviction.

The argument not to impeach that Trump will claim exoneration; he is doing that now, he will continue to do that with or without impeachment. The argument that impeachment will allow Trump to say he is a victim; he is doing that now in spades. He is carrying out an investigation into the FBI and Democrats who carried out a witch hunt against him.

If holding an impeachment hearing expedites the courts in their rulings and enables Democrats to see and listen to McGahn and Mueller in public hearings, if holding an impeachment hearing forces Barr to release the entire Mueller report to Congress, then why not hold the hearings? There is a heck of a lot of dirt on the Trump crime family hidden in the grand jury testimony.

Impeachment hearings need to drag out, need to expose all of the crimes and evil that Trump has done as president. I don't expect Trump to be convicted in the Senate, but I do expect that impeachment hearings will show the American people, in public, how vile Trump is. That's how we beat Trump in 2020/

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Response to watoos (Reply #19)

Thu May 9, 2019, 11:36 AM

23. I agree, we need televised hearings to reveal every bit of Trump's skulduggery

The House doesn't have to hold Impeachment Hearings. The evidence from those investigations would ultimately end up on the Senate floor and would result in a not guilty vote. That's what Trump would spin to his advantage.

Democrats should be creative, though; call the House hearings something else, find a catchy new title. You know, call them the "You're Fired Congressional Hearings" or the "Trump Truth and Reconciliation Commission."

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 10:52 AM

17. I cheated, I turned on msnbc while riding my bike.

I see that Speaker Pelosi has also called this a Constitutional crisis. She should hold these press conferences more often, it's better than watching replays of Trump's rallies. She is still pushing being calm and taking our time.

I mean OK, I support her 100% for Speaker, but this Battle of Bunker Hill mentality of don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes is pretty darn nerve racking. I mean we did inflict more casualties on the British and Bunker Hill became a rallying cry for our young patriots, but we did lose that battle. We better take close aim when we see the whites of those eyes.

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Response to watoos (Reply #17)

Sun May 12, 2019, 12:52 PM

28. The Rude Pundit made an excellent point

on how Pelosi is passing legislation in the House that she knows won't get a vote in the Senate, but she's doing it anyway to make a point.

Why isn't impeachment the same way? Get those GOP Senators on record as saying they don't think colluding with Russia is a crime worthy of impeachment. Otherwise, they will just come back a few years later & claim they would have voted for impeachment but the dems never brought it to the floor.

We the People gave the dems the House to hold this administration accountable. If they punt, and pass their responsibility off on us with phrases like "the voters will decide in 2020," then whether you believe the dems deserve the perception of being weak or not, the fact is that they appear weak & have for many, many years.

I will write to my rep & Speaker Pelosi every week to encourage them to start impeachment.

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 11:01 AM

18. Justice delayed is justice denied.

"Round 'em move'em out", I've read that getting Democrats on the same page is like "herding cats". imo

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 11:07 AM

20. We must use the tools our founding fathers gave us when they created America

Impeachment necessary to remove illegal, immoral or unstable people in government. Democrats MUST begin the process of investigation, calling witnesses and working on Republicans in the Senate with the TRUTH and show them that Country over party is the only way to go.

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Response to watoos (Original post)

Thu May 9, 2019, 08:00 PM

25. I can't pretend to know how to proceed.

How is the special prosecutor law written? How is it possible that the house doesn't get to see the report? Do we need a majority of the Senate vote remove the Attorney General? If the house doesn't metaphorically kick some butt before the election, will there be a peaceful transition of power ever again? Why do I sound like an ignorant paranoid teenager, instead of a college-educated adult? If the orangutan has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since around 1995, why don't we know about it? NOW, WE NEED TO KNOW NOW. Why did Oliver North sell wire guided tow missiles to Iran? And what did he do with the money? oh yeah, now I remember, he gave it to Samoza's nun raping priest murdering goons. Why does elliot abrahms, Oh nevermind i give up.

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