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Mon May 6, 2019, 12:07 PM

 

Issues that voters need to understand about prisoner voting rights etc. It's not that complicated

I have been trying for years to get people to understand what is behind the prison-industrial-complex racket. (PICR)


(Not sure if this belongs here or in the Primary Discussion)

This can explain some of it if you care to understand it. You can see why so many southern and poorer states want more and more prisons built in their states and why the Congress-critters from those areas sneak funding for building prisons in their home states. Here is a snip of the issue:

"What do we mean by “prison-based gerrymandering”? A long-standing flaw in the decennial census counts some 2 million incarcerated people in the wrong place for purposes of redistricting and undermines the “one person, one vote” principle of the 14th Amendment. Census data, of course, forms the basis for re-drawing state and local districts each decade to ensure that each district will contain a similar number of people and each resident will therefore have the same access to government, a result required by the one-person, one-vote rule.

However, although people in prison can’t vote, and remain legal residents of their home communities under the laws of most states, the Census Bureau currently tabulates people in prison as residents of their prison cells, not their homes. Using this flawed data to draw legislative districts grants the people who live near large prisons extra influence at the expense of voters everywhere else"

https://www.demos.org/testimony-and-public-comment/census-count-and-prisoners-problem-solutions-and-what-census-can-do

Bernie needs to examine his passion for this and we the voters need to read and understand the issues involved. Another example of one of my favorite quotes: The person can read and doesn't has no advantage over the person who can't read.

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:17 PM

1. Bernie Sanders thinks his position on this will attract black voters.

It won't, but he thinks so. That's why he's trying to sell the idea.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:18 PM

2. I believe you're right. (nt)

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #2)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:21 PM

3. In reality, voting by incarcerated felons is an emotionally charged issue,

not one that most see as a racial issue. People instinctively do not want murderers, rapists, and other violent felons to be able to vote from prison. They barely think it's OK for their right to vote to be returned after they've served their sentence.

Anyone trying to sell that idea is working against themselves. It's just not a popular idea in any way, except among a small group of so-called progressives. It's just an impossible issue to sell to almost everyone else. That's because it makes no sense to most people.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #3)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:25 PM

4. But it is a way to sow divisions. nt

 

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Response to sarabelle (Reply #4)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:26 PM

5. Divisions within what group?

And who is trying to sow those divisions?

BTW, this thread belongs in Democratic Primaries, not GD, and it will probably be locked here.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #3)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:31 PM

6. Popular here in Florida

An amendment to restore voting rights to felons passed by a large margin down here in this red state. It was for "ex" felons and there were exemptions for certain crimes. But generally people don't mind if voting rights are returned.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #6)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:33 PM

7. Yes, but that's one state and only restores the vote for felons

who have served out their sentence. Not every state has passed such legislation. The discussion Bernie Sanders started was about felons who are still in prison. That's what I'm talking about.

Currently, only Maine and Vermont allow felons who are still in prison to vote.

Florida and Virginia were the only two remaining states that permanently disenfranchised convicted felons, even after release from prison.

For more information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement#Resulting_from_criminal_conviction

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #7)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:35 PM

8. Sadly he's probably right

The vast majority of people in prisons should probably be allowed to vote. It may not be a politically popular idea, but as soon as you create a "second class citizenship" you create a class that is assured to be abused. And seeing how we treat prisoners in this country, it appears this is exactly what happens. Supermax is unconscionable.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #7)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:41 PM

9. And, felons who serve their time usually return to their original residence which may not be in the

 

same district as the prison where they served time but they will have been counted where they were imprisoned until the next census.

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Response to sarabelle (Reply #9)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:45 PM

10. I understand the issue you're raising, but most people will not.

You're talking about reapportionment based on the census that counts incarcerated felons where their prison is. That's a separate issue from the disenfranchisement issue.

Very, very few people are interested in the distinction, I assure you.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Mon May 6, 2019, 10:55 PM

13. I think Bernie is taking the let prisoners vote position as a moral stand.

Bernie has always championed the poor and disenfranchised and this is just one more example of him standing up for the poor and unfortunate. Those who can't afford fancy lawyers and are educated in schools that are substandard. Those who are unfortunate in the 'who's your parent' lottery. Those from backgrounds with no accumulated wealth.

But the Bernie bashers, on line 24/7, will put it out as some sort of political ploy. But they somehow think Bernie is stupid enough to think he will gain more Black votes yet lose the 75% of voters that think prisoners voting is a bad idea.

Crazy stuff is this twisted logic the we are subjected to by the hatred of Bernie on the DU.

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Response to sarabelle (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:25 PM

11. i can't find any info for your claim that ex cons vote republican. Here's an article that

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #11)

Mon May 6, 2019, 10:15 PM

12. I couldn't find it either. I heard that on a news snip on MSNBC...or so I thought.

 

Correcting the original post for that error until I find out differently. Thanks. But the rest of the post is true and scary.

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Response to sarabelle (Reply #12)

Mon May 6, 2019, 11:03 PM

14. Thanks for this post sarabelle.

This may have been a small issue in the past. Now there are millions in prison in the USA.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate

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