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Sun May 5, 2019, 10:25 AM

 

Pelosi Warns Democrats: Stay in the Center or Trump May Contest Election Results

Pelosi Warns Democrats: Stay in the Center or Trump May Contest Election Results
By Glenn Thrush
May 4, 2019

WASHINGTON — Speaker Nancy Pelosi does not believe President Trump can be removed through impeachment — the only way to do it, she said this week, is to defeat him in 2020 by a margin so “big” he cannot challenge the legitimacy of a Democratic victory.
...
Sitting in her office with its panoramic view of the National Mall, Ms. Pelosi — the de facto head of the Democratic Party until a presidential nominee is selected in 2020 — offered Democrats her “coldblooded” plan for decisively ridding themselves of Mr. Trump: Do not get dragged into a protracted impeachment bid that will ultimately get crushed in the Republican-controlled Senate, and do not risk alienating the moderate voters who flocked to the party in 2018 by drifting too far to the left.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/us/politics/nancy-pelosi.html

134 replies, 3727 views

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Reply Pelosi Warns Democrats: Stay in the Center or Trump May Contest Election Results (Original post)
Trumpocalypse May 2019 OP
Dennis Donovan May 2019 #1
zaj May 2019 #6
TheBlackAdder May 2019 #51
CanonRay May 2019 #54
Amishman May 2019 #57
JHB May 2019 #79
Rambling Man May 2019 #93
gldstwmn May 2019 #115
gldstwmn May 2019 #114
Apple Fritter May 2019 #128
enough May 2019 #2
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #3
uponit7771 May 2019 #4
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #53
uponit7771 May 2019 #5
triron May 2019 #10
uponit7771 May 2019 #13
gldstwmn May 2019 #117
Bayard May 2019 #7
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #8
shanti May 2019 #18
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #19
shanti May 2019 #20
KPN May 2019 #9
Apple Fritter May 2019 #129
triron May 2019 #11
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #12
ProudLib72 May 2019 #41
Post removed May 2019 #14
appal_jack May 2019 #15
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #16
watoos May 2019 #77
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #81
watoos May 2019 #101
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #102
Nevermypresident May 2019 #24
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #46
emmaverybo May 2019 #58
Celerity May 2019 #75
emmaverybo May 2019 #109
Celerity May 2019 #110
Nevermypresident May 2019 #107
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #108
Nevermypresident May 2019 #111
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #112
Nevermypresident May 2019 #119
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #124
wryter2000 May 2019 #127
Oneironaut May 2019 #66
Lock him up. May 2019 #82
marylandblue May 2019 #26
appal_jack May 2019 #32
marylandblue May 2019 #33
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #47
watoos May 2019 #104
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #105
gldstwmn May 2019 #118
shanti May 2019 #17
durablend May 2019 #22
hatrack May 2019 #21
LiberalFighter May 2019 #23
emmaverybo May 2019 #59
Autumn May 2019 #61
emmaverybo May 2019 #62
Autumn May 2019 #64
emmaverybo May 2019 #71
LiberalFighter May 2019 #68
Jake Stern May 2019 #25
Generic Other May 2019 #27
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #31
Jake Stern May 2019 #38
Crunchy Frog May 2019 #36
gldstwmn May 2019 #120
RandySF May 2019 #28
ProudLib72 May 2019 #42
gldstwmn May 2019 #121
wellst0nev0ter May 2019 #29
robbedvoter May 2019 #45
emmaverybo May 2019 #63
MFM008 May 2019 #30
jalan48 May 2019 #34
KG May 2019 #35
SidDithers May 2019 #37
standingtall May 2019 #39
TwilightZone May 2019 #43
watoos May 2019 #80
gldstwmn May 2019 #122
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #48
standingtall May 2019 #55
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #65
standingtall May 2019 #70
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #72
standingtall May 2019 #73
marlakay May 2019 #40
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #50
Rambling Man May 2019 #87
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #89
Rambling Man May 2019 #91
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #94
Rambling Man May 2019 #96
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #98
Rambling Man May 2019 #99
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #100
Rambling Man May 2019 #103
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #106
robbedvoter May 2019 #44
emmaverybo May 2019 #60
NurseJackie May 2019 #49
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #52
doompatrol39 May 2019 #56
TwilightZone May 2019 #67
watoos May 2019 #78
doompatrol39 May 2019 #95
Rambling Man May 2019 #97
Rambling Man May 2019 #69
uponit7771 May 2019 #74
YOHABLO May 2019 #76
watoos May 2019 #83
Rambling Man May 2019 #86
BeyondGeography May 2019 #84
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #90
duforsure May 2019 #85
Tarc May 2019 #88
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #92
gldstwmn May 2019 #113
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #116
gldstwmn May 2019 #123
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #125
wryter2000 May 2019 #126
pbmus May 2019 #131
wryter2000 May 2019 #132
Fiendish Thingy May 2019 #130
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #133
pecosbob May 2019 #134

Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 10:29 AM

1. Pragmatism is needed, granted...

Again, I ask, what is the "far left"? Medicare for all? College debt relief? Both poll well with independents.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #1)

Sun May 5, 2019, 10:44 AM

6. It's anything that gets moderates feeling we are pushing too hard.

It's a mix of new policies that feel too good to be true, and a a tone that feels overly tribal left.

This isn't simple, unfortunately.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #1)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:03 PM

51. Trump is going to contest the results no matter how he loses.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #51)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:06 PM

54. THIS

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #51)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:30 PM

57. Contesting election results is going to become the new normal

Best case scenario the seat flips

Worst case they get extra publicity and fundraising. Just look at the green party money grab after the 2016 election.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #51)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:59 AM

79. Yup. A win will produce accusations of fraud...

...a blowout will produce accusations of sweeping, massive fraud.

All baseless, but when was that last a concern to Republican? The Ford administration?

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Response to JHB (Reply #79)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:52 AM

93. Try Eisenhower

Repubs will do and say anything. They are a radical right wing movement and have no basis in fundamental decency, adherence to truth, or anything remotely moral.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #51)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:38 PM

115. Yup. He is. And Vlad is going to help him any way he can.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #1)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:35 PM

114. Isn't pragmatism what got us here?

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #114)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:33 PM

128. yep

But other stuff too but mostly that.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 10:31 AM

2. There's something wrong with legitimizing the threat of Trump contesting the

outcome of the election. It empowers him.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Sun May 5, 2019, 10:32 AM

3. She's not legitimizing it

 

She's warning about it.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Sun May 5, 2019, 10:42 AM

4. +1

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:05 PM

53. +1000!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 10:44 AM

5. Why does Anyone still think the next election will be free and fair ?! That's not rational

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #5)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:23 AM

10. Check this out:

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Response to triron (Reply #10)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:31 AM

13. Damn, facebook is in the middle of it

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #5)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:40 PM

117. This. Waiting until 2020 is foolish IMO.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:03 AM

7. Contest away!

We can't live in fear of this criminal.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #7)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:04 AM

8. True

 

But we can be strategic.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #8)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:06 PM

18. So can his attorneys

They always seem to be one step ahead of us.

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Response to shanti (Reply #18)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:09 PM

19. Guliani is one step ahead?

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #19)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:12 PM

20. He has a shitload of attorneys on board

at his disposal, not just Ghouliani.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:08 AM

9. Overthinking. Just do what's right.

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Response to KPN (Reply #9)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:34 PM

129. THIS! I support this. n/t

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:24 AM

11. So ignore your constitutional duty if you think it will help you win?

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Response to triron (Reply #11)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:26 AM

12. What is your goal?

 

Trump out of office or making a point?

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Response to triron (Reply #11)

Sun May 5, 2019, 06:57 PM

41. I agree with you on this

Either our government follows through on its commitment to the constitution, or it is complete bullshit.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)


Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:54 AM

15. Such a strategy is doomed to failure.

 

Democrats must exercise the power they have thanks to their present House majority.

Democrats must discharge the Constitutional responsibilities they swore to uphold and defend in their oaths of office.

Pelosi is wrong about impeachment and future election prospects.

She was unfortunately wrong about impeachment over the Iraq war lies in 2006. Had Bush/Cheney been brought to justice, would we have had the housing crash? Would we be saddled with Justice Alito had inquiries into impeachment begun in January 2006? Would mainstream media in 2019 be talking about Bush/Cheney with a tinge of "good old days?" We'll never know.

[ON-EDIT - My timeline is mistaken in the paragraph immediately above, as Alito was confirmed in January '06, while Pelosi did not retake the Speaker's gavel until January '07 {thanks to Trumpocalypse for pointing this out just below}. My postulate that robust House push back against Bush/Cheney could have prevented other problems stemming from the late Bush/Cheney years stands.]

What I know right now, is that elections have been manipulated, and the Trump lust for power and secrecy is insatiable. Conducting business as usual like the days of Tip O'Neill is a grievous mistake (heck, it was a bad idea when O'Neill was doing it).

The House is all that Democrats have right now. If Pelosi shrinks from her own responsibilities again, I fear for our country.

-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #15)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:03 PM

16. She was right in 07

 

when she took impeachment of Bush off the table. In 08 Dems won the Presidency and increased majorities in both Houses of congress.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #16)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:39 AM

77. If you say so,

 

We won in 08 because of the disastrous Iraq war that we were lied into. Keep telling yourself that we did the right thing by not prosecuting war criminals.

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Response to watoos (Reply #77)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:05 AM

81. And not impeaching Bush

 

didn’t lead to a loss in 08 as many claimed back then. The same lame and false argument that many are making now. But the win in 08 did lead to the ACA, the end of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’, etc.

And if the choice is a useless impeachment of Bush or millions mote having Healthcare, I’ll chose the latter.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #81)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:53 AM

101. It was a moderate Democrat, Joe Lieberman,

 

who cost us the public option of Obamacare even though we had majorities in both Houses for 4 1/2 months.

Moving to the center will alienate millennials and younger voters and the only way we lose in 2020 is if we don't show up to vote. We won in 2018 because we ran as FDR Democrats and because the moderates wanted a check on Trump. Moving to the right in 2020 will be the end of the Democratic party.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowich are all war criminals and should have been prosecuted for war crimes. They couldn't even travel to certain countries because they would have been arrested by countries who would have prosecuted war criminals.

How many Republicans voted for Obamacare?

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Response to watoos (Reply #101)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:58 AM

102. But that's not what Pelosi said

 

She said center-left. And no one ran in 2018 as an FDR Democrat. At least I don't remember anyone supporting segregation or the internment of Japanese Americans. And if you look in to it, more districts were flipped from red to blue by moderate candidates not by far left candidates.

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #15)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:31 PM

24. I am so disappointed and in disbelief over this 2 prong strategy. Will she not even consider

forming a Watergate-esque special committee to investigate trump's impeachable offenses like the Senate did with Nixon?!?!!!??

So, it appears our Constitution isn't worth the paper it's written on anymore, we all know there will be more sophisticated election interference by Putin, probably MBS and China in 2020, and IMO we are losing our moral compass.

According to Pelosi, we are not even going to try to do the right thing for our country and we should support only Democratic candidates who are centrist.




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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #24)

Sun May 5, 2019, 07:50 PM

46. No need for a special committee

 

All the investigations can be done through existing House committees which is happening. So stop slandering one of the best speakers we’ve ever had. She has been right far more often than she’s been wrong.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #46)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:46 PM

58. Yes. Since the Senate won't impeach

He can’t be impeached. And the worst case scenario is that when the Senate votes not to impeach, Trump claims exoneration. Sure, we don’t care what MAGA’s think, but what many voters we need will think is that Dems go for show. And it would be nothing but a show since the same hearings can be held without calling for impeachment.
Pelosi is also right when she says we need a landslide. Between more and better Russian help, voter suppression, the usual voter fraud, no paper trail and antiquated or rigged election machinery, the only way Repugs can’t pull off yet another election steal is if our candidate is an unambiguous winner across constituencies, a big winner.


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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #58)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:21 AM

75. The Senate does not impeach, the House does.

There is then a trial in the Senate. The Senate can either convict and remove, or vote to acquit.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #75)

Mon May 6, 2019, 12:28 PM

109. Quibbling. I meant same thing. They won't vote to convict meaning

they won’t vote to impeach.

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #109)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:24 PM

110. It is not quibbling, you used completely wrong constitutional terminology.

If you cannot even get basic definitions right, it makes your argument look uninformed.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #46)

Mon May 6, 2019, 11:26 AM

107. Overreaction much? (slandering)

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #107)

Mon May 6, 2019, 11:33 AM

108. Yes slandering

 

When you put words in someone’s mouth that they never said, that is slandering.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #108)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:26 PM

111. Take a deep breath...

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #111)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:33 PM

112. I will

 

when the slandering ends.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #112)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:47 PM

119. Methinks thou doth protest too much.

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #119)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:00 PM

124. Why?

 

You OK with Dems being slandered?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #46)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:26 PM

127. Yup

We need several committees all working at the same time, and we have that. Granted, their stonewalling is frustrating, but we can keep up the pressure. it seems as if some new bombshell lands every week, like Mueller's letters to Barr.

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #24)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:11 PM

66. Because, the truth is, the average American does not care about what Trump did.

They don't care in the least bit about Trump colluding with Russia, or filling the government with flunkies. It doesn't affect their life in any way. They're not paying attention.

What they really care about is their healthcare, jobs, and safety. If you begin to have hearings, they'll just tune us out.

American society is also increasingly cynical about politicians. Most people legitimately believe there is very little difference between Trump and any other politician. They're all bad in their minds. Trying to convince them that Trump is a scumbag is telling them something they already know. They just don't care.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #66)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:06 AM

82. 58% of voters say they won't vote for him.

Not in November, not never.

Moreso if the price of gas keeps going up, as it will surely do if Bolton & Co have their sick way, bombing Iran.

Sales taxes up to 25% on every product imported from China (dumph's stoopid tariffs).

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #15)

Sun May 5, 2019, 02:08 PM

26. "We'll never know," are the three most important words in your entire post.

There is no event in history that is so clear cut that we could not argue about what would have happened if people did something different. That's with full hindsight. When you are acting in the now, the future is even less clear. Pelosi has no crystal ball, neither do you. Her responsibility is to guide us through this difficult time. Not to do things she believes are counterproductive because someone thinks she "must" do it. Excuse me, "must."

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #26)

Sun May 5, 2019, 04:11 PM

32. She still swore an oath to the Constitution.

 

"We'll never know," is not an excuse to break a sworn oath of office.

We can have a friendly debate about the best course of action in 2007, but it would be purely academic at this point. Debating the best course of action of 2019 is considerably higher stakes. Congress has the explicit responsibility to conduct oversight and (via powers of the purse and legislation) even control of the Executive Branch which, if you had not noticed, has been completely rogue, corrupt, and autocratic since 1/2017. Trump is ignoring subpoenas and defying oversight right now. Pelosi needs to have a better plan at hand than she did in 2007, because matters are much more urgent now than then.

-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #32)

Sun May 5, 2019, 04:19 PM

33. Yes it is higher stakes. But the Constitution does not make a duty of impeachment.

And as long we are DEBATING the best course of action, we are agreeing it is not a requirement.

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #32)

Sun May 5, 2019, 07:57 PM

47. Not academic

 

In 07 many made the argument that by not pursuing impeachment against Bush would dishearten Democrats and depress turnout in 08. Many are making the same argument today. But we know that didn’t happen in 08 so we can discount that argument now.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #47)

Mon May 6, 2019, 09:20 AM

104. You can't prove a negative.

 

You are assuming that because we didn't try criminals for war crimes that is the reason Obama won in 08.

My explanation is that people were pissed off that Republicans lied us into a bloody war and that's why we won in 08.

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Response to watoos (Reply #104)

Mon May 6, 2019, 09:22 AM

105. And by the same logic

 

we can win in 20.

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #15)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:43 PM

118. I believe you are correct on all points.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:05 PM

17. Chump will contest it anyway

whether he loses big or small. Count on it.

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Response to shanti (Reply #17)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:26 PM

22. this.

Even if he wins he'll claim the margin of victory should've been larger.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:15 PM

21. "Don't Do X, Or Trump Will Do Something Stupid Or Illegal!"

Guess what, he's going to keep on doing stupid/illegal shit until the day he keels over.

Stop operating on the basis of fear of what he might do.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 12:27 PM

23. Instead of being concerned about the center...

Work on getting support for progressive ideas from the majority. That moves the center to the left.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #23)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:49 PM

59. Why? Not all of us want all of the progressive agenda.

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #59)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:56 PM

61. Because not all of us want a centrist agenda.

The progressive agenda is very popular with a lot of Americans.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #61)

Sun May 5, 2019, 09:14 PM

62. Popular with the working class in the rust belt?

Pelosi said “Own the center left, the mainstream.”
I have yet to see evidence that the mainstream is all in for all of the progressive agenda.
We ignore that mainstream at our peril.

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #62)

Sun May 5, 2019, 10:16 PM

64. Trump kind of faked a bit of a progressive agenda and he won the rust belt. So there was

the lies that he was going to protect SS, no cuts to Medicare or Medicaid, promised great health care, one trillion on infrastructure, drain the swamp and a few others. We knew he was full of shit, The rubes believed him. If you haven't seen any evidence that the mainstream likes a lot of the progressive agenda, like MFA you missed a few things.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #64)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:02 AM

71. Well, that support depends on the info they are given

And there’s support for other alternatives. Clearly, most Americans want universal coverage, but how to get there will still be debated as more is revealed:

https://apnews.com/4516833e7fb644c9aa8bcc11048b2169

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #59)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:24 PM

68. Because a lot of the so called progressive ideas are supported by the majority.

More people are likely to be to the left of center then is thought. Because of that the center is losing it's center to the left.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 01:47 PM

25. Well, well, well how DU has turned

When Pelosi was facing a challenge to the speakership, DUers rallied around her touting her wisdom and experience and how much they trusted her judgement.

Now many of those same DUers calling her out for her strategy of playing to the middle.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #25)


Response to Jake Stern (Reply #25)

Sun May 5, 2019, 04:07 PM

31. I trust her judgment

 

far more than I trust the judgment of anyone on DU.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #31)

Sun May 5, 2019, 06:14 PM

38. I've gone the opposite way of many DUers

Started out begrudging her for not going after Shrub and her not-so-hidden hostility to some things that are sought by the left but as time has gone on and I've come to agree with her middle path stand.

How quickly folks forget that many of those 2018 House victories were in conservative districts where they can easily be flipped back into the Trump column.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #25)

Sun May 5, 2019, 04:37 PM

36. I kept my mouth shut at the time, because I know how this place can get, but

I was definitely having concerns, and now I'm seeing what I was worried about.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #25)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:49 PM

120. We can do both. It's not wrong to support one of our own.

It's not wrong to let her know we don't think this is the right way to go.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 02:12 PM

28. That NYT headline is deceptive because the two are not connected.

WASHINGTON — Speaker Nancy Pelosi does not believe President Trump can be removed through impeachment — the only way to do it, she said this week, is to defeat him in 2020 by a margin so “big” he cannot challenge the legitimacy of a Democratic victory.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #28)

Sun May 5, 2019, 06:58 PM

42. Like 3 million?

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #42)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:52 PM

121. Right? And "no Russian interference."

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 02:18 PM

29. Headline is misleading

Pelosi said "left of center" not middle-of-the-road center


“Own the center left, own the mainstream,” Ms. Pelosi, 79, said.

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Response to wellst0nev0ter (Reply #29)

Sun May 5, 2019, 07:10 PM

45. Exactly. NYT looks for trouble. And finds it as people don't read past the headline

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Response to wellst0nev0ter (Reply #29)

Sun May 5, 2019, 09:17 PM

63. "Own the center left, own the mainstream." (NP as quoted in the NYT story)nt

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 03:05 PM

30. Just this right here

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 04:25 PM

34. The Goldilocks approach. Not too hot, not too cold, just right!

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 04:26 PM

35. I lulz'd

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 05:06 PM

37. Fucking NY Times can't even get her quote right in the article title...

Pelosi said Democrats have to "own the center-left", not stay in the center.

There's a big difference.

Sid

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 06:47 PM

39. Taking impeachment off the table is playing right into Trumps hands

the more the house delays flexing it's constitutional muscle the more they will turn off their own base while making the lies of Trump look more credible to moderate voters. If there is sure way to botch the 2020 election it is to look weak and we are flirting with that now.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #39)

Sun May 5, 2019, 07:01 PM

43. She didn't say it's off the table.

She said that it's not likely to remove Trump, which is correct. The Senate will not vote to convict.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #43)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:02 AM

80. Trump cannot win with just his base showing up,

 

as long as our base turns out. When we fail to do our Constitutional duty and impeach a criminal president that is not going to invigorate our base to turn out.

Trump is not playing defense, he is investigating the crooked FBI and Democrats (Hillary) who waged a witch hunt against him. Since we don't impeach that will allow Trump to control the narrative that he was the victim of a witch hunt.

Making the reason for impeachment strictly political will backfire on us, it will depress our voter turnout. All we need to do to beat Trump is to turn out our base. Trump won in 2016 because our base stayed home.

Not impeaching Trump legitimizes everything he did, in my way of thinking, just like it was wrong when we didn't prosecute war criminals in 2009.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #43)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:54 PM

122. It's off the table, it's not off the table.

Do you think most Americans an keep up?

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Response to standingtall (Reply #39)

Sun May 5, 2019, 07:59 PM

48. The same argument was made in 07

 

It proved to be wrong then and is wrong now.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #48)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:12 PM

55. apples and oranges 08 was nothing like this

for one thing most elected Democrats voted for the Iraq war. Which would've made it hard to for them to justify voting to impeach Bush despite the fact the Bush administration lied to get us into war. Presidents have been lying to get us into war sense forever very few people seriously thought Bush was going to be impeached or that Democrats should've seriously considered impeaching him. Besides that our nominee was Obama a once in a generation candidate we have great candidates for 2020, but none of them are even close to Barrack Obama nor will they be. Taking impeachments off the table will make Democrats look weak just like voting for the Iraq war made them look weak in 04.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #55)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:04 PM

65. Same argument was made in 07

 

about Dems looking weak by not impeaching Bush. It was BS then and it’s BS now.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #65)

Mon May 6, 2019, 01:14 AM

70. Saying something over again does not make it true

again apples and oranges. There was no two year investigation into Bush by the FBI and there were no serious Presidential candidate calling for Bushes impeachment. If Democrats don't impeach Trump they will look weak even if they manage to squeak out a win in 2020. Which will not be a sign of political strength or wisdom, but a revelation of just how deeply unpopular Trump was.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #70)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:11 AM

72. And repeating the same weak, false argument

 

doesn’t make it true either. Do you have any evidence that your opinion has any credibility?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #72)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:24 AM

73. I gave you facts

Do you have anything to refute those facts? Other than to repeat the same assertion without anything to support your assertion.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 06:56 PM

40. He will do his worst no matter who

When I hear advice from any politician no matter who, that are very wealthy telling me to stay in the middle I admit I get suspicious why they say that.

She is tough and has worked hard for the party for many years but she is rich.

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Response to marlakay (Reply #40)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:02 PM

50. And she's been one of the most effective Speakers history

 

one of the few people to be elected to speaker twice.

How times have you been elected speaker?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #50)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:43 AM

87. Sam Rayburn?

Tip O'Neill?

Both elected speaker more than once.

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #87)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:48 AM

89. That wasn't the question.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #89)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:50 AM

91. There aren't very many people who aren't in politics

who get elected to Speaker of the House.

Are they exempt from having an opinion because they've never been elected to Speaker?

That would be MOST people.

Kind of a dumb question.

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #91)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:55 AM

94. It is a matter of credibility

 

Who has more credibility on political strategy? Someone who has been elected Speaker twice or or someone sitting anonymously behind their computer at home.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #94)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:57 AM

96. So absolutely no person whatsoever

who is not in politics who would never have a shot at being Speaker can't say anything because they have no credibility?

Sounds very "Dear Leader" and totalitarian to me.

Kinda like the way they do things in North Korea.

What's next? are we going to be told the Speaker doesn't go to the bathroom or created the sun or some shit like that?

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #96)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:31 AM

98. Never said that

 

They can say what they want. But if they want to put their political judgement up against that of someone who has been elected Speaker twice, they should be expected to be called out on it.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #98)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:35 AM

99. Someone said this about this exact same thing

" . . . someone sitting anonymously behind their computer at home."

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #99)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:39 AM

100. Weak comeback nt

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #100)

Mon May 6, 2019, 09:11 AM

103. If you say so

have a blessed day.

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #103)

Mon May 6, 2019, 09:23 AM

106. You too

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 07:09 PM

44. Center-left. It's what she said. NYT headline edited "left" and you all jump on her

would be nice if people read the article before jumping.

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Response to robbedvoter (Reply #44)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:51 PM

60. Good catch. nt

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:01 PM

49. I trust Nancy Pelosi's judgement.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #49)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:03 PM

52. So do I

 

And far more than anyone posting on DU.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 08:20 PM

56. So....he won't contest if we nominate a centrist?

 

But will if we nominate a liberal?

Jesus Christ.

And is there a single bit of evidence that it was moderates who "flocked to the party in 2018"? Or are we just supposed to take that on faith?

And the thing I don't get about all of this "WE MUST NOMINATE A MODERATE/CENTRIST!!!!" is that it is built on a foundational logic that Hillary lost in 2016 because she was......too liberal?

I mean I know our party's logic is that if we lose it's always because of progressives/liberals/the left, and that moderate centrism can never actual fail it can only be failed by the dirty hippies.....but hearing her say it out loud is even more disheartening than normal.

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Response to doompatrol39 (Reply #56)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:17 PM

67. No, her point is that we need to win by a large enough margin that he can't contest.

A point that was rather clear, though the NY Times managed to mangle it in the headline.

And she didn't say "centrist", she said "center-left". They're not remotely the same thing.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #67)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:53 AM

78. I'm 71 years old

 

and have been voting for Democrats all of my life and I have never heard this strategy that we have to win by a large margin or our win will be deemed tainted by the loser. To me that attitude is defeatist. That's like saying that my sports team has to win by 2 touchdowns, my baseball team by 6 runs, my basketball team by 25 points. That's defeatist if you ask me. I'm sorry but when my sports team wins by 1, I celebrate, and when my opponents team cries they were cheated I just laugh at them for being sore losers.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #67)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:57 AM

95. Either way, it's ridiculous...

 

If we win, we win. As someone else already responded, if you win by 1 you still win regardless of how poor a sport the other team is.
The fact that she is putting this arbitrary goalpost up there sends a terrible message, that Republicans get to call the shots and Republicans get to set the parameters. Almost as bad as her message that we shouldn't take any risks in holding Trump accountable.

And again, it also presupposes that Hillary was somehow less of a "center-left" candidate than Obama was. People can revise history all they want, but the fact is that regardless of what happened after he took office, Obama's 2008 campaign was quite liberal, and Hillary's 2016 campaign was very "center-left". I'm not sure why that lesson is conveniently always lost in these discussions. We were told we needed a moderate candidate like Hillary in 2016 in order to win, she got the nomination, and lost the electoral college. Now revisionists want to claim that she was too liberal and we need to move more to the center?

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Response to doompatrol39 (Reply #95)

Mon May 6, 2019, 08:07 AM

97. And consider that there hasn't been an actual "liberal" president

since FDR.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Sun May 5, 2019, 11:31 PM

69. We live in a banana republic

is everyone and everything compromised?

There won't be a free and fair election in 2020. Just like the last one.

The republicans will act in bad faith NO MATTER WHAT. You can't pin the life of our republic on potentialities that may never materialize.

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #69)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:09 AM

74. +1, there's no reason to think 2020 election will be more free and fair than 2016

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:13 AM

76. I sometimes wonder what centrist believe is too far to the left. The Communist Manifesto?

So a "moderate" Democrat might vote for Trump? I just don't know what they want.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #76)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:15 AM

83. People fall for the propaganda they see ,

 

from the corporate controlled right wing M$M.

The issues that Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Andrew Yang espouse when taken issue by issue are all popular with the American people. What the M$M calls the far left is popular with the majority of Americans.

We won in 2018 because we ran as FDR Democrats. Sure, all politics is local, there are some areas of the country where we need to be more centrist, but overall we won a blue tsunami by not running as moderates.

The only way we lose in 2020 is if we don't turn out to vote. Not impeaching Trump is not going to inspire our base to turn out.

Put Maxine Waters in charge of the impeachment committee and give her 12 freshman Congresspersons and let the fur fly, if we do that I guarantee that we will bury Trump in a landslide, and maybe get 50 Senate seats in the process.

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Response to watoos (Reply #83)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:37 AM

86. 2018 happened because it was a reaction against Trump

not because Democrats wanted to become more Reagan-like.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:11 AM

84. More pointless proclamations that put us in a box

Last edited Mon May 6, 2019, 07:14 AM - Edit history (1)

Trump isn’t worth impeaching.

Trump has to be defeated in a landslide, or else.

Democrats need to be mainstream center left or they will blow it.

What is to be gained by any of that? These are Pelosi’s personal opinions, each is highly debatable, highly disputed within our party and can easily be turned into a Republican talking point. Her statement about the election margin is even borderline reckless. Defeatism and learned helplessness are what I hear. Not anything resembling strong leadership that’s for sure. Would that the Speaker spent less time educating Democrats on their limitations and more attacking Republicans.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #84)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:50 AM

90. And she's been right

 

more than she's been wrong.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:25 AM

85. trump is desperate now

And he and putin could be planning an event to distract, a major event would not surprise me now, or trump just declaring the election is illegally done,when he was illegally doing things all along. Cyber attack to the infrastructure? A war breakout? They could pull something off here before this election so trump could declare martial law to bypass everyone. They're capable of doing anything. HE has too much to lose if he loses the election.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:45 AM

88. Being Republican-lite, aka "moderate", is not a winning strategy

Offer the voters an actual progressive platform, highlight how different it is from conservatism. That is how you attract voters, as we saw in 2018.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #88)

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:52 AM

92. Nor are purity tests

 

and in 18 purple districts were flipped with moderate candidates.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:35 PM

113. So basically you just told

him and Barr there will be no consequences for their actions while Trump is on the phone with Putin doing god knows what and the entire executive branch and part of the legislative will do the same. In five years the judiciary will rule they were wrong if by some miracle they still exist. Apologies for the run on sentences. The time to act is now.

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #113)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:38 PM

116. Not what she said.

 

Maybe you should go back and read the entire article.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #116)

Mon May 6, 2019, 02:58 PM

123. I can read thanks. This is a losing strategy.

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Response to gldstwmn (Reply #123)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:04 PM

125. Still not what she said.

 

And what is your evidence of what are a winning and losing strategies?

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:22 PM

126. Who cares if he contests it?

Otherwise, I'm in total agreement with her. Impeachment won't remove him from office, and that's the main goal. If he can't be taken out in handcuffs, he's in office until January of 2021.

Keep up the investigations. Keep up the pressure. Show him to be the liar and tyrant that he is right up until the presidential election. 38% of the vote won't win it for him.

In the meantime, impeach Barr.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #126)

Mon May 6, 2019, 04:35 PM

131. THIS.....🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝

Everyone talks about Nixon, Nixon, Nixon....

The Big Con is Not Nixon....

He is 100 times worse

And has a political apparatus that will mow down impeachment proceedings...

We must continue on this investigations process with ...

Every week a new scandal...

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Response to pbmus (Reply #131)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:11 PM

132. Thanks

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 03:50 PM

130. Here's a rebuttal to Pelosi:

https://www.salon.com/2019/05/06/are-centrist-candidates-really-the-most-electable-it-may-be-the-opposite/

“All of which is to to say that the "centrist" model for a Democrat has it exactly backwards. If the goal is to win over swing voters in Midwestern states, the winning strategy isn't to back an economically centrist candidate like Biden, but a Democrat who appeals so strongly to these voters with progressive economic policies that they're willing to set aside the racial resentment that led them to vote for Trump.

[snip]

What these elections demonstrate is that voters aren't really inspired by playing it safe or moving to the center. Instead, candidates do better by convincing voters that this election is a historic moment and they don't want to be left on the sidelines. There are a number of 2020 candidates who have that juice for different reasons: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris all seem to be generating excitement at their rallies. It could be catastrophic if Democratic voters, laboring under the panicky delusion that only a "centrist" can win, blow their chance to beat Trump by nominating exactly the wrong kind of candidate”

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #130)

Mon May 6, 2019, 05:22 PM

133. But Pelosi didn't say center

 

She said center-left. Dishonest of that columnist not yo point that out.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Mon May 6, 2019, 06:57 PM

134. Bullshit story with a bullshit title written by bullshit NY Times

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