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Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:05 PM

After Gore was cheated in 2000, we did nothing.

After Bush cooked intelligence and lied about WMDs, we did nothing.

After torture was revealed, we did nothing.

After Gitmo was discovered, we did nothing.

After Wall Street pushed us into a financial collapse, we did nothing.


So, is it any wonder that Trump could think that he can break the law? And, if we do nothing about this, just imagine the next crime by the next Republican president.

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Reply After Gore was cheated in 2000, we did nothing. (Original post)
Yavin4 Apr 19 OP
brooklynite Apr 19 #1
Yavin4 Apr 19 #3
sandensea Apr 19 #24
George II Apr 19 #36
shanny Apr 19 #6
LisaM Apr 19 #33
shanny Apr 19 #60
LisaM Apr 19 #69
shanny Apr 19 #75
certainot Apr 19 #82
shanny Apr 19 #96
certainot Apr 19 #102
BeyondGeography Apr 19 #12
watoos Apr 19 #13
Guy Whitey Corngood Apr 19 #17
SMC22307 Apr 19 #18
Farmer-Rick Apr 19 #25
delisen Apr 19 #42
Farmer-Rick Apr 19 #70
McKim Apr 19 #79
camelfan Apr 19 #41
Lucky Luciano Apr 19 #72
Moostache Apr 19 #2
Yavin4 Apr 19 #4
Chin music Apr 19 #29
Martin Eden Apr 19 #5
Yavin4 Apr 19 #8
Martin Eden Apr 19 #11
mitch96 Apr 19 #58
SHRED Apr 19 #7
qazplm135 Apr 19 #9
watoos Apr 19 #15
qazplm135 Apr 19 #27
Chin music Apr 19 #30
watoos Apr 19 #55
Chin music Apr 19 #64
McKim Apr 19 #80
maddiemom Apr 19 #63
Autumn Apr 19 #92
sprinkleeninow Apr 19 #95
Autumn Apr 19 #97
sprinkleeninow Apr 19 #100
Yavin4 Apr 20 #112
jalan48 Apr 19 #10
Chin music Apr 19 #73
Mr. Ected Apr 19 #14
watoos Apr 19 #16
Mr. Ected Apr 19 #62
Chin music Apr 19 #32
red dog 1 Apr 19 #77
Maven Apr 19 #19
Laura PourMeADrink Apr 19 #28
SunSeeker Apr 19 #20
LiberalArkie Apr 19 #21
sprinkleeninow Apr 19 #99
NRaleighLiberal Apr 19 #22
Ligyron Apr 20 #116
NRaleighLiberal Apr 20 #117
sandensea Apr 19 #23
watoos Apr 19 #31
sandensea Apr 19 #45
Chin music Apr 19 #34
sandensea Apr 19 #46
Laura PourMeADrink Apr 19 #26
Chin music Apr 19 #35
watoos Apr 19 #39
Catch2.2 Apr 19 #37
CaptainTruth Apr 19 #38
wasupaloopa Apr 19 #40
Yavin4 Apr 19 #52
Chin music Apr 19 #76
Boomerproud Apr 19 #86
wasupaloopa Apr 19 #90
Ferrets are Cool Apr 19 #43
ismnotwasm Apr 19 #44
iluvtennis Apr 19 #47
stillcool Apr 19 #48
gsbbrockton Apr 19 #49
femmedem Apr 19 #61
gopiscrap Apr 20 #114
NoMoreRepugs Apr 19 #50
Kurt V. Apr 19 #51
The Liberal Lion Apr 19 #53
Amyishere Apr 19 #104
ProfessorPlum Apr 20 #109
The Liberal Lion Apr 20 #115
Raster Apr 19 #54
Fiendish Thingy Apr 19 #56
Rambling Man Apr 19 #65
uponit7771 Apr 20 #108
Demsrule86 Apr 19 #57
seta1950 Apr 19 #59
geardaddy Apr 19 #66
pdsimdars Apr 19 #67
Yavin4 Apr 19 #68
AlexSFCA Apr 19 #71
JCMach1 Apr 19 #74
red dog 1 Apr 19 #78
Mr.Bill Apr 19 #81
UTUSN Apr 19 #83
warmfeet Apr 19 #84
Power 2 the People Apr 19 #85
kskiska Apr 19 #87
treestar Apr 19 #88
jimlup Apr 19 #89
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #91
BlueMTexpat Apr 20 #107
proud patriot Apr 19 #93
zentrum Apr 19 #94
MasonDreams Apr 19 #98
The Genealogist Apr 19 #101
PatSeg Apr 20 #110
gopiscrap Apr 19 #103
Mike Niendorff Apr 20 #105
BlueMTexpat Apr 20 #106
McCamy Taylor Apr 20 #111
Name removed Apr 20 #113

Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:08 PM

1. I remember going out and winning an election in 2008....

...maybe I'm mistaken?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:10 PM

3. We won largely because of massive crimes and failrues by the Bush admin.

And, after 2008, we lost over 1000 elections on the federal and state levels. And finally, we got Trump in 2016.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:09 PM

24. Was a great day.

Although by then, Bush and his boys had gotten away with so much, I doubt they cared anymore.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:30 PM

36. We lost almost 1,000 over the course of ten years for a number of reasons, not just one or two....

....and then last year, in ONE election, we gained about one third of them back.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:14 PM

6. And that addresses the point....how, exactly?

We've been standing on the sidelines for decades...since Jerry Ford's pardon, since Iran-Contra, since GHW Bush's pardonfest on the way out of town (and look who had a hand in that: Barrf hisself) etc etc etc.

Obama was a once-in-a-lifetime candidate and he won, twice (altho we lost a lot of other races along the way, in case you've forgotten). Now it is to the point where a minority can prevent the majority from doing ANYTHING...and all you want to focus on is Obama.

Whoooosh.

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Response to shanny (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:27 PM

33. That was the enigma of the Obama administration - losing 900 other seats nationally.

I still can't wrap my mind around that. I will never, ever understand how people could be so entranced by Obama, and then not give him the support he needed to change things!

It makes no sense to me, and that's why I don't think that being able to draw crowds to rallies is necessarily a plus. It's easy for the media to cover, gives the candidate a lot of free publicity, but it does not do anything for down ticket races, which is where a lot of laws get made, and where voting suppression happens.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:18 PM

60. They DID give him the support, initially.

60 votes in the Senate and a supermajority in the House.

Problem is what happened next...or didn't.

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Response to shanny (Reply #60)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:56 PM

69. He had some coattails in his first election, but that was gone by midterms.

You'd think that his voters would have had a little more staying power than they did. I get that voting is not always easy, particularly with suppression, but he really needed more tools to work with.

I also disagreed with booting Howard Dean from the DNC when he'd really delivered. Another enigma.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #69)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:30 PM

75. I have plenty of ideas why so many stayed home

but suffice it to say America was at a turning point in 2008...and didn't turn.

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Response to shanny (Reply #60)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:12 PM

82. what happened is democrats and left continued to ignore 1500 radio stations

that created a national buzz to convince young and new voters that the obama promised the moon, said he was a messiah (like they said gore claimed to have invented the internet), lied about health care, bring the whole country together etc while making sure no republican could help him with anything without being called a traitor

the fucked up part is that because talk radio is invisible a lot of the new voters believed that shit as if it was real and the russian trolling that was used to tell them obama lied, didn't care, was just like all the rest and what the fuck is wrong with him if he can't deliver single payer in his first year.....

and the lazy fucking idiots didn't vote, and how many were students complainign about obama not stopping torture while going to the 88+ universities that support 260 limbaugh stations while limbaugh was selling "club gitmo" coffee mugs and t-shirts

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Response to certainot (Reply #82)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:39 PM

96. russian trolling?

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Response to shanny (Reply #96)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:09 PM

102. russians have been using talk radio since at least 2008 and why wouldn't they be using social media

and internet too?

the teabag party was probably partly russian - it was a break from the establishment GOP and cheered on by limbaugh and sons.

in 2009 limbaugh started 'climategate' - from a russian hack of climate scientists. some americans might have liked to derail obama at the copenhagen climate conference a week later - but putin gained billions in oil revenue too

there is no reason for american billionaires to have supported the debt default efforts by limbugh-led teabaggers in 2011. limbaugh spent at least 6 weeks pushing the teabag gop congress to force default - something putin would love

right after benghazi the idiot talk radio blowhards started selling the talking point that obama and hillary ordered that us embassy guards around the world not to carry live ammo. the US marines spokesperson had to come out and refute that. they're so fucking stupid they'd encourage attacks on our embassies just to criticize obama and clinton - who thought that up? not the rw gop think tanks.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:23 PM

12. By 10 million votes

After which we waited for reasonable Republicans to show up. Our reward was an epic slaughter in 2010.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:25 PM

13. Obama was a charismatic candidate,

and people were fed up with the Afghanistan/Iraq wars.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:35 PM

17. So they smack us in the face with a 2x4 every time they gain power and every few years

we get to shove them slightly. Then behave as if we should've been more gentle in our shove. Awesome! That is the type of cutting edge thinking we need in these totally normal times.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:39 PM

18. What's your end game?

Privatization of Social Security? Cuts to Medicare with eligibility age raised?

We won 2008 after eight miserable years of Bush/Cheney and the obscene destruction of Iraq. Republicans have not paid for lying the country into that bullshit war. They haven't paid for Bush stealing the election from Gore. They haven't paid for the carefully orchestrated Wall Street collapse and massive transfer of wealth upwards. Enough. Fat Nixon and his corrupt administration have GOT to pay.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:20 PM

25. The End Game Will be the End of Capitalism

Capitalism will always destroy democracy because it turns the workplace into feudal kingdoms and teaches workers to be willing servants and worshippers of wealth. It concentrates wealth much like the feudal system. The handful of rich then use their wealth to turn democracy into managers of the masses. Government becomes merely a tool to keep the workers, the masses, the voters, in line and under cotrol.

Capitalism has reached the terminal stage. We are seeing the decline and stagnation of a corrupt economic system. What comes next? I probably won't be alive to see. Damn it.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:36 PM

42. Venezuela also seeing decline, USSR disappeared-they were not Capitalists

Corruption of economic systems is noting new-probably goes back to the first marketplaces when some wiseguys decided to engage in monopolies.

The Soviet dictatorship of the proletariat turned out to be a just another dictatorship running objectors through Siberian labor and death camps.

Love the former socialist revolutionary Ortega? He made a deal with the Catholic Church to get back in power and has been killing girls and women who object to being brutalized breeding machines.

Economic systems are just economic systems, the problem is the hierarchal system and half the population hoarding power as if it is their divine right and stomping on the other half.

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Response to delisen (Reply #42)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:59 PM

70. Economic systems are political systems

When capitalism first took hold, they thought of political and economic systems as one in the same. Democracy meant democratizing the workplace too. If you democratize your government but allow a restrictive and abusive economic system, then you will end up with a handful of excessively rich people who also control the government with their wealth. The American South tried to mix slavery and democracy and look at the contortions and monstrous adjustments to democracy they had to make.

Your economy is your government. You may think you have 2 separate systems but one rules the other and capitalism is ruling now....not democracy. Trump is the perfect example of all that is capitalism.

Do you think if Bill Gates, the Koch bros or the Waltons did Not want Trump, he would still be president? They created him, they pick him, they still have work for him to do. And it is All thanks to capitalism, even Russian or Dictator Putin capitalism helped out.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:40 PM

79. It's Time to Stand Up NOW!!!!

It’s time to stand up and impeach now! They think they have no limits. Time to stand up to the bullies! They shoved their wars down our throats and squandered our tax dollars killing people inthe Middle East. Time to say enough!

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:36 PM

41. We won in 2000 and 2016, too.

A plurality of the American people wanted Gore and Clinton. It's only the vagaries of the electoral college that gave the election to the GOP. This, as much as anything, needs to be fixed.

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Response to camelfan (Reply #41)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:13 PM

72. Unfortunately, the rules of the game were known beforehand

They were what they were and your strategy has to be about the electoral college which is indeed correlated with the popular vote, but not perfectly. Fuckface’s team did strategize better there as they prioritized the EC over the popular vote - we should have done the same.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:09 PM

2. You forgot some more...

Merrick Garland?
President Obama birthers?
Hillary Benghazi obsession?

What exactly were our party responses to those incidents?

The GOP gives zero fucks about what people think of them...I can't say the same for our side too many times for comfort...we NEED to start impeachment hearings and investigations ASAP. I want to see Trump forced to testify the same way Clinton was...

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Response to Moostache (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:11 PM

4. I know. I could've added voter suppression. n/t

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Response to Moostache (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:24 PM

29. Global warming...how high do these summer temps have to go?

And how deep of snow in the winter? The ozone, and the wilderness and wildlife of the world, is begging for help. SCIENCE BASED help.
If the winds keep increasing...how many roofs/homes a year will we need to repair? We are at a tipping point.
We are the political paladins. We need to fix it once and for all. We deserve better lives. We owe it to the Earth that gave us life.
jmho

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:13 PM

5. Failure to hold them accountable ...

… invites more of the same.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:17 PM

8. "more of the same"? Their crimes are getting worse.

They're openly conspiring with foreign governments to steal elections. Imagine their next crime. What Will it take? Wholesale, genocidal slaughter to do something?

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:22 PM

11. OK then, more terrible crimes

The worst so far in my view are GW's fraudulent case for war in Iraq and the war crimes committed there, but Trump is definitely capable of inflicting more terrible consequences on America and the world.

The overriding point being that we and our representatives in Congress must act to hold them accountable or we are complicit (through dereliction of duty) in what follows.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:14 PM

58. Yup,

We bring a hot dish to a knife fight.. Gore followed the rules when the " final numbers" showed bush won. Even though "they" cheated. Obama with a majority in the house, senate and presidency reached across the isle and got his hand bit.
Enough... go for the throat...... WWMD... what would Mitch McC do??
mE

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:16 PM

7. You know

"For the good of the country".

Or some such bullshit.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:18 PM

9. you want to do something

vote in very single election.
vote even though you have "hold your nose"
vote even though the candidate is not liberal enough or too liberal or whatever reservations you have.

You do that, and there is no President Bush, there is no President Trump.
Don't do that, and there will be plenty more of them.

That's pretty much how it works.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:33 PM

15. People did vote in Florida,

if the recount was not stopped Gore would have won. The Supreme Court picked our president and Democrats said I guess that's ok for the good of the country.

We did vote in 2016, 3 million more votes for Hillary. Russia influenced that election both directly and indirectly.

No one can say that votes weren't flipped for Trump since no machines were pulled out and independently audited.

I vote into a black hole in Pa. I ask for a receipt and never get one, no paper trail whatsoever, not that it would matter. I see we are getting new machines in Pa. and Republicans are fighting it. I wonder if we will get some of those Ivanka Trump machines?

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Response to watoos (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:22 PM

27. not enough

and certainly not in 2014, or 2010, or 2004.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:26 PM

30. Who here doesnt vote?

The russian trolls? That's NOT how it always works. Especially when someones finger/claw is on the scale. The vote is a farce if it's not accurate, and should NOT be our remedy for this. But, that's my opinion.

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Response to Chin music (Reply #30)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:12 PM

55. I agree with your opinion.

The US used to be the gold standard for fair elections. We used to head delegations to banana Republics to oversee their elections. Want to know one of the tools we used to insure fair elections? Exit polling. Exit polling was a reliable indication of fair elections. Isn't it odd that since we went to voting machines all of a sudden exit polling isn't reliable any more? I wonder why?

Our voting is a joke. We vote into machines that are never independently audited because the owner of the machines claims proprietary rights for his software. The owner doesn't want someone to steal his program about how 1+1=3, or after 4 D votes 1 vote gets flipped to an R vote. Math is complicated, we can't have someone stealing that addition/subtraction software.

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Response to watoos (Reply #55)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:40 PM

64. heh heh. yes.

that last paragraph gave me a chuckle. +1

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Response to watoos (Reply #55)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:49 PM

80. Jimmy Carter's Standards

I will never forget that Jimmy Carter said of the election: “I don’t believe that this election would stand up to the standards of The Carter Center.”

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:31 PM

63. Happily Jill Stein seems to finally be out of the picture.

I never understood the gung-ho fan base she had (just as I never understood throwing your vote away on principle, knowing that you are as good as voting for the way worse opponent). I did that ONCE, when I was first eligible to vote. Never again. I was leery of Stein from day one, and hearing her speak just puzzled me as to why anyone believed that she was, in any way, qualified. I could understand support of Nader, although I never voted for him, but STEIN? WTF? It didn't take her sitting around a table with Russians. Just her spouting ideals that I grew out of believably expecting could happen after college in the Sixties, was weird because she had no concrete ideas of achieving them. We do need many changes, but we need candidates with a firm grip on reality first. "Mayor Pete" is a great start. I can't see him in 2020, except perhaps as V.P., but he's young with years ahead of him, hopefully.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:05 PM

92. I doubt you will find a single person here who doesn't vote in every single election.

Some people need to be inspired to get out and vote or they just don't bother.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #92)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:31 PM

95. Mb people got too comfy-cozy with/took for granted us getting Obama.

Felt it would be a trend?

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Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #95)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:41 PM

97. I think people just took for granted that a piece of shit like Trump could never win. nt

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Response to Autumn (Reply #97)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:52 PM

100. That also.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 10:28 AM

112. Also, it's hard to do when your vote is suppressed

It's easy to say, "go vote", but what do you do when you're not allowed to vote.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:20 PM

10. And yet Bush Jr yucks it up at all the functions involving past Presidents. What me worry?

Last edited Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:06 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:13 PM

73. He's letting his 'hippie liberal side' out now that he's retired...and he loves every minute of it.

I use hippie liberal only for description. It IS good George. Where have you been all your life?

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:29 PM

14. They stole the 2016 election by conspiring with Russia

Absolutely nothing has been done to address this vulnerability. Rather, it's probably worse now than it was then.

But we're supposed to look past this and concentrate on 2020? Like maybe this time we'll magically avoid being cheated out of our victory and the GOP will accept their upheaval?

Yeah. Right.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:34 PM

16. Paper ballots and watch what happens.

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Response to watoos (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:22 PM

62. Not going to happen

Remember, if it's fair and just, it won't work with Republicans. They play to win. We play by the rules. We're about to find out again why we need to play HARDBALL by the rules with them, political consequences be damned.

In 10 years, there won't be any politics to play, because the fascists will have taken control.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:26 PM

32. +1

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:39 PM

77. + 2

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:41 PM

19. But accountability is hard and voters might not like us if we punish people for committing crimes!!!

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Response to Maven (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:23 PM

28. Sounds like a tremendously stupid short-sighted strategy.

If you are losing me...a lifelong Dem ...in my DNA for generations... something's seriously wrong.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:00 PM

20. K & R

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:01 PM

21. Gore may have hurt the 1% of both parties..Can't allow that to happen.

All the poor congress critters with millions ruin military stock may have lost money and prestige.

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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:50 PM

99. What you wrote just scared me good.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:02 PM

22. When they go low...etc.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #22)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 12:12 PM

116. We go, "Hi!"

To our brand new masters! Same as the old boss.

Those of us who answered "We go High" must have been talking about weed.

Right?

Because that's the only way it made sense after 2016.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #116)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 12:36 PM

117. it's certainly an admirable aspiration, but only if both sides play by the same rules

By nature, because Dems/Libs are honest and compassionate, we end up bringing water balloons to nuclear warfare. It really pisses me off - I am a liberal/Democrat who is a fighter.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:07 PM

23. Plus the Kennedy assassinations, Iran-Cocaine-Contra, and much more

Although to be fair, I doubt anyone could have done much to either stop those crimes, or hold those accountable after they happened.

None, as they say, dare call it treason.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:26 PM

31. Poppy Bush was involved

in the Kennedy assassination and Iran Contra and we just celebrated his passing as one of our greatest Americans.

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Response to watoos (Reply #31)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:46 PM

45. And no doubt some of what went on during the Dubya regime itself

He knew and, evidence suggests, profited both directly and indirectly from it.



"Good job, son."

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Response to sandensea (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:27 PM

34. +1

Nice reference.

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Response to Chin music (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:47 PM

46. Thanks!

That's just the world we live I guess.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:20 PM

26. Brilliantly spot on. You made me think how this

has been incremental. Demoralizing some of us bit by bit. Waiting for justice, people saying, no worries there are secret plans and three dimensional chess moves. Huh !!! Nothing happens.

We need to go back to a time when leaders were unabashedly liberal. Who fought tooth and nail for justice and what is right. And not wimp out.

P S. You forgot Valerie Place!! That sucked big time.



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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:30 PM

35. Valerie Plame...that was shocking.

Incremental strangulation by russia, while the trolls online and at fox news tell you, "You can't breathe bc of YOUR allergies. Relax...and just go with the stars you're starting to see...lullabyyyyyye lullabyyyye. Shhhhh now. Just sleep."

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #26)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:34 PM

39. I live among Trumpers in central Pa.

I don't back down when they call me a Socialist, I tell them I am an FDR Democrat. I then ask them if they would like to get rid of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid? Of course since they are on those programs they don't have an answer for me.

This debate over impeachment vs waiting doesn't upset me. I admit to being for impeachment because I am an FDR Democrat, I have no problem with liberal-lites being for waiting.

IMO drastic times call for drastic measures. I hope I'm wrong and my liberal-lite friends are right.

I don't see Barr turning over the complete Mueller report without a fight, I hope I'm wrong about that.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:31 PM

37. Thank you!

The time for playing games is over. We are at a serious crossroads right now. Time to do the right thing or we will be paying for it for generations to come!

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:31 PM

38. Thankfully, the Dem-controlled House committees are not doing nothing.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:35 PM

40. What could we do about Gore?

I don’t get this kind of OP.

We can march as we did. We can vote in the next election as we did.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:08 PM

52. This

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #52)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:37 PM

76. Stand up.

Send me.
You only die once, but your story lasts forever. Make it a good one. jmho.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #52)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:41 PM

86. One of the most important and heartbreaking

scenes in film. It was fact- not fiction.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #52)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:59 PM

90. You and I could not do anything but watch as

we do when watching the video.

Our power lies in protest in the streets and on the phone and voting which only about 40% of us do.

Also supporting a candidate.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:37 PM

43. K and R

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:41 PM

44. Bullshit.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:50 PM

47. +++ agree.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:50 PM

48. it's not the next Republican President..

it's the Republican Party. It's those who write the laws, so they don't break them. And,it's the people. The people that don't vote, and the ones that do. And it's the lack of knowledge. The inability to discern what is real, beyond sound-bytes.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:52 PM

49. I'm so glad to see this thread

I was just trying to figure out how to post something similar and couldn't figure out how to post here in DU.I have to say, you took the train of thought right out of my Brain . I was thinking, If Mueller had been investigating a Democrat The Repuklicans would be all over this calling for all their half witted, racist Fox-Bots to charge the Whitehouse with Patio torches
We Democrats really are a Bunch of wimps, MSM mostly included. I mean we've got a few (Rachel) and a few others on that network , but Where The FjJK (trump uses it ) is the outrage? I'm a 65 year old pot smoking, Union loving ,Life long Proud Boston liberal, but when it comes to making Mountains out of Mole hills .
Nobody beats those slimy Lyin' Kool aid drinking Dog's and now they have the weight of not just the American Slime ball Billionaires, By no means to I mean All Billionaires,I'm talking trumps,Epstein's and the Ilk ,You know Pervs and there hanger ons Like Dershowitz and Guillianni ,don Jr that crowd
Looks like we now have the Full Weight of Putin and his Oligarchs to deal. Mueller ,in deciding to had all this over to the Democrats with Mark This Down
We Suck He'll win reelection. I pray I like long enough to see someone else as President of this Country.
I don't want to die knowing that Vermin defile OUR House .
Why I remeber once not too long ago A Moron (senate president) Still in Power by the way Stole a SCOTUS Pick from a POTUS
MSM , was Ranting about Hil's emails. I'll bet everyone in the cabinet uses private email. Where's the Rage ?

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Response to gsbbrockton (Reply #49)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:18 PM

61. Welcome to Democratic Underground!

The reason you're having trouble starting a thread is because you are new. Unless you donate a few bucks to DU and become a star member, you have to have a few comments on other peoples' posts before you can start a thread of your own. Sorry I can't remember how many...maybe 10?

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Response to gsbbrockton (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 11:28 AM

114. welcome to DU

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:00 PM

50. When a majority of the American voting populace don't really care much about anything other than

their own immediate family (or themselves) and feel powerless to change anything what is the minority to do? Those of us here
at DU are not representative of the majority of voters in the US - the big picture and the future just aren't that important to them IMO.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:02 PM

51. the same ppl involved, going even further back to watergate, are involved now. They're not

guessing if they can get away with crimes, they know they can.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:11 PM

53. What I am most concerned about is

Once a democratic President enters the white house just after this fiasco of an administration, and assuming trump voluntarily relinquishes office after losing, that that President and the congress chooses NOT to pursue any criminal prosecution against him and his enablers in order to "heal" the nation. We, liberals, progressives and democratic party voters, must make it clear to them that healing this nation, if it is to be healed, will require purging all elements from government that is loyal, partial, or even willing to work with trump and the nazis. Healing starts with jailing trump and pence. But jailing trump and pence will only be the start. No justice no peace! Our democratic representatives must come to understand this. Not to changes anyone's mind, but IMHO Kamala Harris is the only candidate right now who I can trust to send trump to jail.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #53)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:36 PM

104. What is needed is "denazification". Just like after WWII. And for the same reason. Too many nazis.

And after tonight, with Warren's appearance on the Rachel Maddow show and her being willing to go for impeachment, I'm supporting her.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #53)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:27 AM

109. Just like she sent Mnunchin to jail

Oh, wait...

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #109)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 11:48 AM

115. Point taken

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:12 PM

54. You left out: After Raygun* started his own private war in Central America, funded...

...by highly illegal and clandestine arms sales to Iran AND also funded by the sales of crack cocaine to vulnerable African American populations in Southern California, we did nothing.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:13 PM

56. The motto of the Democratic Party should NOT be:

“Keeping our powder dry since 1987”*

(When the Dems failed to impeach Reagan for Iran Contra)

We have the power in Congress! Let’s use it full force against those who abuse their power!

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #56)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:44 PM

65. That powder is soaking wet and has made glue or biscuit gravy by now

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #56)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 07:08 AM

108. +1

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:13 PM

57. All good examples but sometimes there is nothing that can be done...people don't like to consider

politics but it matters...in2007 we got the house and Senate ...than we got a 60 vote majority in 2008.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:14 PM

59. Yes

After Iran contra we did nothing Reagan just retired so did Nixon , no legal consequences for their crimes , that’s why they keep doing it

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:46 PM

66. K&R

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:48 PM

67. And is it any wonder that Dem voters are disheartened to vote?

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #67)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:52 PM

68. Or that an independent senator from an obscure state is in the lead of candidates for the

presidential nomination.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:12 PM

71. political answer to atrocities is not an excuse from the rule of law

but it is a reality. Mayor Pete came to the conclusion that we can only win over voters politicaly - and it is unfortunate reality. If Kamala becomes president, I sure hope she uses her prosecutorial skills to the fullest and launches massive invistigations which may result in dozens of indictment and criminal charges. She will need to lift whistleblower regs to allow government folks to come forward with evidence w/o fear of prosecution. We need a true revolution, increasing SC justices should be the single most important and urgent priority for any dem prez who will have the dem senate. We need to be much much tougher than we’ve ever been. Democratic Party must reinvent its image into the tough rule of law party that fights to increase and protect middle class and protect freedom and democracy. One good thing that happened in recent years is that we are no longer a nation of PC - that BS has been shuttered to dust. The gates of speech are open, we now say things as they are. It filtered down to every level of society and even spread outside US borders. This opens opportunity for true political revolution.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:03 PM

74. Not precisely, we fought back and organized within a democratic framework

This time, however, we are fighting criminal authoritarians. Democracy may not be enough to save us...

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:40 PM

78. K&R

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:04 PM

81. It goes back a lot further.

We are where we are at now because Nixon didn't die in prison.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:16 PM

83. K&R

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:26 PM

84. Yep.

Every time you do not stand up to a bully they become more emboldened. The repugs are not going to suddenly change their behavior due to a change of heart. They are vicious, power grubbing a-holes. They need a good smacking (so to speak) to set them straight. If we do not stand up to them we are victims in their minds, and they love victims.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:35 PM

85. +1000

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:50 PM

87. The media was complicit in Bush vs. Gore

At one point during the recounts they began a steady self-fulfilling drumbeat, "How long can we wait? Will the public lose its patience?" They went on and on about it, asking people on the street until they got the desired answer.

What was wrong with counting votes? Isn't that what it's about?

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:59 PM

88. What nothing? Didn't it go all the way to the Supreme Court?

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:39 PM

89. Don't get me wrong - Trump is dangerous but...

he'd be much more dangerous if he actually had a brain.

As it is, he's an idiot who just keeps stepping in shit.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:00 PM

91. To be fair, Gore is the one who shut that down.

I'm with you on the Wall Street thing, though. They all wanted to "move on" with getting the economy up and running again. I can appreciate that, but...here we are 10 years later, with once again a big tax cut bill unpaid for and deregulation. Another recession is on the horizon. Because they can. Rich people don't have recessions.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #91)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 05:14 AM

107. Gore really had no choice.

After all, the US Supremes had ruled AGAINST the recount.

And that horrible "Joementum" - his own Veep candidate - betrayed him. https://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/15/us/examining-the-vote-lieberman-put-democrats-in-retreat-on-military-vote.html

What you don't seem to remember is how hard Al Gore fought in 2000. Perhaps you should review the situation: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/dec/14/uselections2000.usa12

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:07 PM

93. Maybe You Did Nothing

I and countless DUers gave our lives to fighting those things ..

You are welcome ..

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:15 PM

94. Actually we did "Occupy"

....after the financial melt down, for many months, and the media just wouldn't cover it.

If 12 Teabaggers staged a protest they were given full coverage. They finally became the Repug party itself because their ignorant message dovetailed with the money-elite.

But "Occupy" was largely ignored. It faded as the economy "recovered" (so-called). And only the most progressive Dems embraced their economic message in any serious way. Warren especially with legislation for consumer protections.

100's of thousands marched in the streets to object to the Iraq invasion. Then silence.

But, yes, building a truely organized movement takes lots of work and we've been shamefully passive.

However Stoneman students like David Hogg and Emma Gonzalez are terrific at true movment building.

I think the young are truly terrified and I have a lot of faith in them.



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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:49 PM

98. Al Gore still stings and resonates

We threw eggs at shrubs inauguration OMG WTF
We lost the promise of a future!

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Response to MasonDreams (Reply #98)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:07 PM

101. It still stings me too

I can remember the night Al Gore made his speech, and I can remember the day Shrub was inaugurated. Both vividly, both were painful. Making those dark days even more painful was my maternal grandmother's death on 12/8/00. Needless to say, by that dark Saturday that Shrub was inaugurated, I was a basket case. If I didn't have a tight circle of like-minded friends, I don't know what I'd have done.

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Response to The Genealogist (Reply #101)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 10:08 AM

110. That was when I became compulsively

addicted to politics. My initial outrage just grew over the years. Still to this day, no one has been held accountable for the crimes and deceit of the Bush administration or Wall Street. Well, there WAS Scooter Libby, but he got his sentence commuted by Bush and he was pardoned by Trump last year.

If we don't start holding people in high places responsible for their wrong doing, they will feel free to keep on committing crimes. Prosecutions are apparently only for the little people.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:11 PM

103. Exactly

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 04:55 AM

105. THIS.


Precisely sums up not only the situation of the present day, but also its context in the continuing and decades-long escalation of Republican criminal conduct.

Dems : ignore this at your own peril.


MDN

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 05:05 AM

106. It is not right to say that "we"

did "nothing" after any of these. After all, it was only after the US Supremes interfered and stopped the vote-counting and Veep candidate "Joementum" (I have hated him ever since) betrayed Al on overseas votes, that Al finally conceded.

He was left with little option.

In 2004, Kerry should have asked for recounts, especially in OH. He didn't. They may or may not have changed the course of the election. We will never know now.

Under Howard Dean's DNC stewardship, we were able to able to retake the House in 2006 and, together with the two Independents, able to regain a Dem majority in the Senate.

Also under Dean's DNC stewardship, we were not only able to regain the Presidency but also to increase majorities in BOTH Houses of Congress in 2008. But Rahm Emanuel hated Dean with a passion. He was able to force Dean out of decision-making entirely, and more importantly, got the DNC to return to the usual "key state" strategy that was exactly the reason we lost in earlier elections, instead of continuing Dean's demonstrably effective "50-state" strategy.

Once Dean left the DNC, we began to have losses in Congress and ultimately in the Presidency. There were MANY other factors, of course. Failure of Dems to clearly defend the ACA in 2010 spring to mind, etc.

And I for one will never forgive nor forget the actions of BoBers in 2016!

Fortunately, Tom Perez seems to have learned lessons from earlier failed strategies. I am impressed with his stewardship.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 10:16 AM

111. We did almost nothing about Nixon, too.

He left office but was never prosecuted and the power of the executive branch was left unchecked.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

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