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Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:50 PM

If democrats like Steny Hoyer think letting trump go Scott free is a good idea, I would like to know

just what crime would trump have to commit to get you, like minded Dems, to do your constitutionally sworn duty and govern.

I canít wait to see how many of these milk toast Dems get primaries due to lack of willingness to stand up and do their jobs.

We have a ways to go yet before elections and a lot more trump crap is going to come out when the unredacted Mueller report hits. There is a reasonable chance that Attorney General Barr will find himself in the dock due to his obstruction of justice actions.

What kind of country have we become if we will meekly accept a self identified criminal stay in our presidency. We must not allow the republicans to kill our democracy. Accountability is the only force we have to preserve and protect our fragile nation. Democrats in Congress are the only wielders of that force now that can stand in the breach and resist the vileness that has infected our whitehouse.

We have in the past assumed that those running for office, especially high offices, had the best of intent and wanted to strengthen, not harm our country.

We are living in a nation that NONE of us created. We are the privileged children of selfless and far seeing forebears who sacrificed for us so that we would be able to have a life unlike that of any other in the world. Now the likes of Senator Hoyer want to just toss it all in the trash can and go along with republicans who want to pretend nothing happened.

If you, Senator Hoyer and those of your ilk, canít, wonít, will not do your job and protect the nation from pillagers like trump and his republican boot lickers, resign. Get out of the way of real Americans who recognize the danger of allowing this administration to continue as if nothing has happened.

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Reply If democrats like Steny Hoyer think letting trump go Scott free is a good idea, I would like to know (Original post)
Augiedog Apr 18 OP
triron Apr 18 #1
Stuart G Apr 18 #2
OliverQ Apr 18 #18
Honeycombe8 Apr 18 #19
KPN Apr 19 #60
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #64
KPN Apr 19 #65
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #66
KPN Apr 19 #83
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #84
KPN Apr 19 #85
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #86
cstanleytech Apr 18 #21
Poiuyt Apr 18 #30
doc03 Apr 18 #36
cstanleytech Apr 18 #39
doc03 Apr 18 #48
Poohbearpicnic Apr 20 #104
doc03 Apr 21 #109
Name removed Apr 22 #120
Dan Apr 18 #22
Thekaspervote Apr 18 #24
Dan Apr 18 #25
Poiuyt Apr 18 #33
larwdem Apr 18 #51
Cousin Dupree Apr 18 #29
Dan Apr 18 #42
LenaBaby61 Apr 20 #97
LiberalLovinLug Apr 21 #113
DownriverDem Apr 19 #61
sop Apr 21 #115
Baitball Blogger Apr 18 #3
SunSeeker Apr 18 #17
FiveGoodMen Apr 18 #52
Locrian Apr 19 #57
Kurt V. Apr 20 #98
PSPS Apr 18 #4
chowder66 Apr 18 #28
louis c Apr 21 #110
elleng Apr 18 #5
angrychair Apr 18 #8
gopiscrap Apr 18 #6
Ponietz Apr 18 #7
TwilightZone Apr 18 #9
Solly Mack Apr 18 #10
smirkymonkey Apr 18 #11
Solly Mack Apr 18 #12
onecaliberal Apr 18 #37
Solly Mack Apr 18 #40
suffragette Apr 19 #69
Solly Mack Apr 19 #70
Jake Stern Apr 18 #13
uponit7771 Apr 18 #15
former9thward Apr 18 #49
uponit7771 Apr 19 #53
former9thward Apr 19 #54
uponit7771 Apr 19 #55
uponit7771 Apr 18 #14
Stuart G Apr 18 #16
pdsimdars Apr 18 #20
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 18 #23
Lonestarblue Apr 18 #26
saljr1 Apr 18 #27
EveHammond13 Apr 18 #31
saljr1 Apr 18 #50
FiveGoodMen Apr 19 #74
saljr1 Apr 20 #105
FiveGoodMen Apr 22 #121
Heartstrings Apr 19 #67
FiveGoodMen Apr 19 #75
bullwinkle428 Apr 18 #32
Laura PourMeADrink Apr 18 #44
ZERTErYNOthe Apr 18 #34
Ligyron Apr 18 #46
LibDemAlways Apr 21 #112
doc03 Apr 18 #35
onecaliberal Apr 18 #38
Akacia Apr 21 #111
watoos Apr 18 #41
Laura PourMeADrink Apr 18 #43
radical noodle Apr 18 #45
Laura PourMeADrink Apr 18 #47
George II Apr 19 #56
Generic Other Apr 19 #58
FiveGoodMen Apr 19 #63
Generic Other Apr 19 #71
louis c Apr 19 #59
Generic Other Apr 19 #72
louis c Apr 19 #89
Generic Other Apr 20 #91
louis c Apr 20 #92
oldsoftie Apr 20 #96
sheshe2 Apr 20 #101
Generic Other Apr 22 #116
louis c Apr 22 #118
Generic Other Apr 22 #119
oldsoftie Apr 20 #93
watoos Apr 19 #62
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #68
Generic Other Apr 19 #73
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #77
Generic Other Apr 19 #79
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #80
Generic Other Apr 19 #81
Honeycombe8 Apr 19 #82
louis c Apr 19 #90
oldsoftie Apr 20 #95
RandySF Apr 19 #76
cureautismnow Apr 19 #78
jcgoldie Apr 19 #88
jcgoldie Apr 19 #87
louis c Apr 20 #94
murielm99 Apr 20 #99
Firestorm49 Apr 20 #100
Poohbearpicnic Apr 20 #102
Laura PourMeADrink Apr 20 #108
NYMinute Apr 20 #103
Collimator Apr 20 #106
burrowowl Apr 20 #107
Evolve Dammit Apr 21 #114
amywalk Apr 22 #117
ColesCountyDem Apr 22 #122

Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:54 PM

1. First Hoyer is not a senator. But otherwise I agree with you.

Trump committed treason to win the presidency and is getting away with it, so far.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:54 PM

2. I might be wrong, but Hoyer said something like impeachment is not viable now, at this time.

It does not mean that at sometime in the future, the time will right for impeachment....Why? Timing is everything,.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:05 PM

18. No, Hoyer said there is no point impeaching him because there is an election in 18 months.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:09 PM

19. He could be right.

I did think we should impeach, just to get it on the historical record (it won't actually DO anything other than that). But he makes a good point about the election. Since it will be ONLY Democrats who vote to impeach, probably. Because Trump can't be removed, I don't think any Republican would vote to impeach, knowing that Trump would get his vengeance against each Republican for that vote.

If it does cost us the election, will it be worth it? Do we have a choice, though, if we are convinced he committed a crime? Damn the consequences for us?

It's tricky. I'm sure the Democratic leaders will discuss this thoroughly.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 12:17 PM

60. We need to do what is right for the good of our democracy. We need to hold Trump and those

who enable him accountable as soon as possible. If that means impeachment now or after a short period of investigating the Barr version of the Mueller report further, so be it.

Election consequences be damned. Not impeaching cements the message that Trump did nothing wrong. The consequences could well be worse if we don't.

ITMF now.

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Response to KPN (Reply #60)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:11 PM

64. I tend to agree. BUT...

and it's a big but (you should pardon the pun), I think it would take a more careful examination of the evidence, and some lengthy, perhaps heated, discussions among the party leaders, as they look in the future as to what might happen in different scenarios. And the best path for the country and for us.

I couldn't make a decision without some discussions among the best and brightest, as we all discuss it from different angles. It's not an easy decision, and people will disagree.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #64)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:22 PM

65. It's a simple decision in my view. Do what's

right. Congress canít let this go unattended. If this doesnít meet the standard for impeachment,what does?

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Response to KPN (Reply #65)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:01 PM

66. It's complicated, if the end result means that Trump will have four more years...

to do Lord knows what, now that he has escaped accountability for his crimes. There really is no telling what he has done that we don't know about,and what he will do in the future.

If the concern is for the country, that is part of the concern.

It's not easy.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #66)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:46 PM

83. I disagree. This is nothing like Clinton.

Impeachment for these crimes is a hell of a lot more justifiable and readonable. Just because Clintonís ratings went up after impeachment doesnít mean tRumpís will. We need to stop clutching our pearls in fear and do what is right deliberately and with conviction. In my view, wE are much more likely to lose in 2020 if we donít.

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Response to KPN (Reply #83)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:58 PM

84. I think you mean to respond to someone else. I didn't say anything about Clinton. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #84)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:14 PM

85. I understand that. That's the reason Democratic leadership

has given (Hoyer particularly).

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Response to KPN (Reply #85)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:28 PM

86. Oh, okay. But that's not the point I was making at all.

And I don't have a firm view at this time. I'm waiting to see what the Democratic leaders say and do. They'll huddle and decide a course of action.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:11 PM

21. Well to be fair it would give Trump a ton of free PR as the media would be all over the story and

you can bet Trump and his cronies would use all the free PR.
Thats not to say impeachment should be off the table but rather if its done we should not allow the Repugnants to drag it out into the election.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:08 PM

30. Trump is going to get a ton of free PR no matter what

The press is drawn to him like moths to a flame. That's not going to change.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:25 PM

36. If they don't Trump is going to blame Democrats

for a two year witch hunt that cleared him.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:30 PM

39. He already was doing that but the numerous convictions and his refusal to testify prove who the

majority of the voting public with more than two working brain cells should trust.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #39)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:01 PM

48. Trouble is the people that support him

believe he was cleared and the voting majority doesn't
pick the president.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #36)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:42 PM

104. That is already a foregone conclusion

 

They are already ready to go after everyone involved in the FISA warrant.

Listen to Pelosi and Hoyer. They have more Cred than I (or anyone Iíve read here)

You want Trump out?


Or do you just want to cry and rage?

I am so
Much more worried about finding a Trump killer for
2020. Biden (red meat )? Warren? Iím sorry Bernie looks like heís going to blow an aeorta artery every time I see a picture? Whoís going to capture Americaís attention? People withdraw from negatives- always have.

Quit giving away participation awards and letís get serious about winning. Remember the media , while useful initially, is counterproductive - they would love nothing more than to report on how we screwed up by getting stuck on 2016. They are not our allies they are their own allies period.

Where are our electable warriors?

Iím serious? How the heck do you beat Trump
And I respect but am not convinced by angst filled outbursts.

The adults win. The kids get put to bed.

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Response to Poohbearpicnic (Reply #104)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:12 AM

109. Interesting you come here out of nowhere with 5 posts

on a mission to try and stop talk of impeachment? So you will be down with Trump getting re-elected with
Putin's assistance again.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #109)


Response to OliverQ (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:18 PM

22. Sadly, I believe that if we do not impeach Trump, then I think that Trump might win re-election.

..because I think a lot will believe that we don't stand for anything - combined with a lack of strength and will to do the right thing.

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Response to Dan (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:32 PM

24. It's the other way around. Read your history

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:54 PM

25. explain, please...

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:11 PM

33. You read yours

Democrats took over the presidency after Watergate and Republicans took over after Clinton.

Why Impeaching Trump Is ĎWorth Ití
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/opinion/clinton-impeachment-republicans-trump.html?register=email&auth=register-email

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Response to Dan (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:15 PM

51. agree

They must impeach or voters are going to stay home

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:07 PM

29. Hoyer is making the assumption that trump will be voted out.

What if there is no attempt at impeachment and then trump wins the election?

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Response to Cousin Dupree (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:41 PM

42. If Trump is re-elected

with a GOP congress, we will no longer have a Republic;

But in that case, we on DU won't have to worry, because our asses will be interned.

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Response to Cousin Dupree (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 03:54 PM

97. "Hoyer is making the assumption that trump will be voted out."

Totally agree with you there 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

Hell, Hoyer's acting like we'll be able to VOTE, and if we can that our votes will COUNT.

A continuing theme throughout his campaigning in 2016 is that if he lost the presidency in 2016, the system was rigged against him. Also, that he may not accept the results if Hillary won. But since he and his minions helped him cheat to win the 2016 US presidency, he tamped down on that for the moment. Then he said that illegal immigrants by the MILLIONS voted all across this country, and when people showed evidence that it wasn't true, he started up with the "Fake News" crap. He stays saying that. Now he's back to saying that everything was rigged when Dems took the house. He might change it up and say I'm suspending elections for 2020 because it's rigged for Dems to win the presidency. He could say that he's not leaving the presidency and that he's appointing himself president AGAIN. WHO'LL stop him?
Certainly NOT senate thuglicans who sit by and watch him break the country's rule of law DAILY, and we know that most in the corporate media LOVE his insane, lawless antics and his over the top antics on twitter they talk about because hey, the ratings are KILLER that he brings them

Dems have to ALWAYS do what's right for the good of the country, and thuglicans DON'T. WHY even have a damn Dem Congress if they don't do what's right for the good of the country this time for us ALL? It's obvious now that per Muellers guidelines from his report, he felt that CONGRESS should take the hog in chief on the CONGRESS. And if I understand correctly, impeaching fatso is the ONLY way we'll get to SEE an un-redacted version of the Mueller Report, because you know that tRump's henchman Barr and the rest of the thuglican shills in the Senate don't want the Dems nor the country to see an un-redacted version of the Mueller Report. What's out there un-redacted is pretty damning as it IS! What's under the redacted parts of the Muller Report?

tRump is a LAWLESS criminal. He'll do ANYTHING to hold onto the presidency. On a daily basis he's turning himself into a Dictator and this country into a Banana Republic. That's obvious. What else is obvious is that thuglicans in the Senate don't care to stop him. They're walking in lock step WITH him in all he does on a daily basis in destroying the rules of law in this country. He's destroyed our standing around the world in just about 3 years, and Senate thuglicans don't give a damn.

Dems better do something, or THEY risk losing their base coming out to vote in 2020, that's IF we CAN vote at all and that's if our votes count.

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Response to Cousin Dupree (Reply #29)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 01:24 PM

113. If Trump is re-elected, then the normalization will be complete

Because it would be even more dubious to start impeachment after that. That's even IF we won the House back.

Then Trump and his minions can go full Fascist. He will "cleanse" all the FBI and CIA's top officials, not just the director, on the premise that it is infiltrated by Dem loving traitors. Appoint another huge swath of judges, including probably Ruth Ginsburg. He'll go after CNN and MSNBC as well while dismantling Net Neutrality.

I think just as we don't recognize the nation from how it was a short 5 years ago, it will change even more. That's how it happens, as in Germany, if you don't imagine it getting any worse, it will. Because you aren't prepared for it or have any concept of the reality of it and so have no defense.

Impeach now, even at the risk of losing. While there is still this thread bare democracy. It will at least register this criminal conduct into the history books, and maybe set up a growing avalanche of resistance for 2022 and beyond.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 12:39 PM

61. He could be right

There are currently 14 investigations going on in New York and SDNY. trump could be arrested the day he leaves the WH.
As for Impeachment: First investigations have to happen. That has been going on as soon as the Dems took the House. Then the evidence has to be compiled and laid out so the American people are on your side. We aren't there yet. We still have a very divided country. With Nixon both sides came to the same conclusion that Nixon had to go. Goldwater went to Nixon and told him either you resign or you will be impeached & then tried by the Senate and found guilty. We don't want what happened with Bill Clinton. He was impeached and then the Senate refused to try him. What did that accomplish? It ignited the voters to vote for Clinton. Yes these are no normal times, but we need to do it right. Adam Schiff is a former prosecutor. He knows what he is doing. In the meantime work to get Dems elected.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #61)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 08:31 PM

115. House Democrats need to investigate Trump's finances first

That's the one thing Mueller didn't include in his report. Apparently, looking into Trump's many shady deals wasn't part of Mueller's "mandate," so he likely referred the money stuff to other prosecutors. When they rip the lid off that garbage can, all kinds of nasty things are likely to come tumbling out.

House Democrats must also be given the opportunity to expose all of Trump's financial misdeeds during public hearings. It's the sort of thing that will sway even the most diehard Trump followers. Besides, it'll be fun watching Trump freak out for the next year while they talk about his money on TV.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:54 PM

3. This is why I'm ready to see the era yield to a younger generation.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:04 PM

17. +1

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:23 PM

52. Yes. And fast!

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:05 AM

57. +1,000,000

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 05:30 PM

98. +1

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:56 PM

4. Hyperbole much? Nobody said "go scott free." Impeachment ain't happening no matter how much you yell

The unrepresentative senate will never convict, so why start a process that will just solidify trump's base? Maybe later as more comes out.

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Response to PSPS (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:01 PM

28. I agree. I also think Dems should investigate and impeach/discipline lower-level actors and expose

everything they can up until the election.

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Response to PSPS (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 07:58 AM

110. Be careful. Very few here are willing to hear the voice of reason...

 

...Everyone here wants to remove Trump from office. It will be far easier to obtain 270 Electoral Votes for the Democratic Nominee in 2020, than to obtain 67 Senators for conviction in 2019. In addition, if we are successful in going the Electoral college route, we guarantee a Democratic president. If we go the Conviction route, we still have a Republican President.

Let's wake up.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:56 PM

5. That's a foolish premise;

I don't accept it.

Let's see where Nancy Pelosi is on the question.

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Response to elleng (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:59 PM

8. She is where he is

He is essentially her mouth piece when she doesn't want to say it. He is the majority leader.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:56 PM

6. no shit

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)


Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:02 PM

9. No one is arguing that Trump get off scot-free.

Just because they aren't starting impeachment hearings immediately because of your demands doesn't mean they're going to drop everything and bow down to Trump.

The binary thinking around here is getting a little silly.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:02 PM

10. He could torture people, some to death. Oh, wait...no...that doesn't get prosecuted either.

Nor does it warrant impeachment. Not even a censure. Apparently.

My bad.

I have no idea what crimes a president can commit that my government would ever even consider prosecuting. Impeaching.


Well, besides lying about getting a blow job.

Maybe a strongly worded letter will suffice now?

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:07 PM

11. I'm think that if someone shakes their finger at him really hard, with a stern look

on their face, that just might do the trick.



This is beyond frustrating.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:15 PM

12. I've been in full disgust for over a decade now. Going into two decades soon.

No amount of justifying non-accountability surprises me anymore.

I roll my eyes and snort and have for a good long while now.

That's not me being jaded or a cynic either. That's simply how it has been and continues to be.

As always, my government is welcome to show me just how wrong I am. (Snort/eye roll)

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:27 PM

37. To be fair he only committed treason, it's not like he lied about a blow job.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:31 PM

40. Yes, there is that.

Perhaps a time-out.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:34 PM

69. Or he could negotiate with a foreign nation not to release hostages until after the election to

increase his chances of winning - oh, wait, that was Reagan.

Then advise his Vice President who became President to cover up yet another operation, Iran -Contra by pardoning all Republicans involved. No coincidence that advisor was Barr.

They keep dipping back into the same playbook and employing the same cover-up engineers because it keeps working out well for them.



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Response to suffragette (Reply #69)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:35 PM

70. Yep

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:57 PM

13. My 2 cents

The only thing impeachment is going to do at this point in time is possibly further "vindicate" Trump and rally his base solidly behind him. Many of the House gains in 2018 were in moderate to conservative districts that Trump carried and in quite a few the Dem won by a razor thin margin. They can flip back just as easily, especially if it looks like impeachment is Dem sour grapes over the less-than-damning Mueller Report.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:02 PM

15. How would vindication happen? Who cares about his stupid useless base, without Russia it

... was useless last time.

The "flip backs" wont even help Red Don, there's no way he can be as popular as Clinton was in 90s, there's no comparison.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:21 PM

49. Clinton was never that popular.

He never broke 50% in either of his elections.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #49)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:19 AM

53. Clinton was polling 40% with Republicans that's DAMN HIGH for opposition party member in any country

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #53)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:10 AM

54. Votes are what count.

Not polls. People never learn that lesson. I saw polling on Reagan that was never good for him but he easily won two elections with landslides.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #54)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:26 AM

55. I disagree, polls .. DO COUNT ... aggregates of polls give some insight into what people feel and

... I'm thinking they should have to have some level of security compliance for credibility.

RayGun had democrats to think for his elections (Kennedy and Duccause) and Bush 1 had dirty tricks

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:00 PM

14. What Kind Of Country? One that elects KINGS for 8 year terms

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:02 PM

16. I don't think that Senator Hoyer and others will let "Trump Go"

..I think that the .."Time is not right"..Timing is everything in politics.

I believe that the timing will be right when all the information comes out about Trump. And ..I also believe that there is more information to come out about Trump.

When? What? How?...hell I don't know. but I think there is more...that is my belief..

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:10 PM

20. It's their constitutional duty. . . It has nothing to do with the Senate, the duty of the House . .

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:20 PM

23. If you are going to attack Hoyer, quote him so we can see for ourselves the context. PS: BIG D.

People in the tRump-Republicon Party love to write "democrats" with a little D when referring to Democrats who support the Democratic Party.

Please always capitalize Democrats in those contexts!

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:54 PM

26. Trump has gotten away with things no Democrat ever could.

With two years left and his view that he now has his fixer in AG Barr to protect him from any consequences, Trump will feel empowered to do just about anything he wants. Republicans have just rolled over and gone back to sleep whenever Trump violates the Constitutional separation of powers, as his declaration of a national emergency to take money Congress did not allocate to build his stupid wall. Just this week, Trump vetoed the decision to stop supporting Saudi Arabia in Yemen. Trump was outraged because Congress was trying to prevent him from using his Constitutional right to decide our wars. He does not have that right, and if Congress fails to vote again and overturn the veto Trump will be enabled to start any war he wants. By next year, he will declare war on Iran. He and Bolton have been itching to do so, and it would please Saudi Arabia for US troops to do the dying to cause problems for their enemy.

Trump unleashed is a truly frightening prospect.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:57 PM

27. Hoyer should not comment either was on impeachment. it's too early

He is not the leader of the party. He's a dinosaur and his time as come and gone. He's just a stuffed shirt and out of touch with the American people. Somebody please, primary him in 2020.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:09 PM

31. I am not allowed to post here what I think about Steny for that

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Response to EveHammond13 (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:50 PM

50. Why?

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Response to saljr1 (Reply #50)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:22 PM

74. Posts critical of Dems get deleted

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #74)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:57 PM

105. in my post, I criticized him.

Called him a dinosaur, stuffed shirt who is out of touch with the American people

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Response to saljr1 (Reply #105)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 01:00 PM

121. Someone has to alert. Results are not consistent.

I've had a few deletions over the years.

Anyway, that's why people are sometimes cautious.

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Response to EveHammond13 (Reply #31)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:15 PM

67. Why? nt

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Response to Heartstrings (Reply #67)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:22 PM

75. Posts critical of Dems get deleted

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:10 PM

32. We are on the verge of literally telling him he can shoot someone on 5th Ave. and

get away with it.

Look, I GET the "roll of the dice" that involves a political calculation, but at some point, he has to know that there are consequences to his actions.

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #32)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:49 PM

44. +1

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:11 PM

34. If democrats like Steny Hoyer think letting trump go Scott free is a good idea, I would like to know

One of my biggest disappointments during the Obama years was that no Democrats would hit back hard, not even Obama. We had one rep who did, and although he had some issues, at least he spoke the truth, and wasn't afraid to throw some verbal hand grenades (Alan Grayson). Here is a link to his video:



We had an even better rep on our side, Al Franken. He is the reason that we are where we are now, and he lost is position as a result. It also wasn't helped by our leadership, who not only allowed it to happen, but actively encouraged it.

I'm tired of people like Steny Hoyer negating the hard work that so many of us do.

I really hate to say it, but I think we need a Democratic version of Mitch McConnell.

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Response to ZERTErYNOthe (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:51 PM

46. And exactly what did we gain by throwing Al Franken to the wolves?

It didn't buy us anything.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #46)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:28 AM

112. What Franken was tossed out for was playground

stuff compared to what Trump's already proven to have done. Paying off porn stars and lying about it for starters, never mind taking an active role in obstructing justice as detailed by Mueller.

Not starting impeachment proceedings is an insult to the office of the Presidency. It conveys the message that the President is untouchable and can do whatever he wants. A terrible precedent going forward.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:22 PM

35. So Trump will be free to collude with Russia to

steal the 2020 election.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:29 PM

38. That is my concern.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #35)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 09:12 AM

111. This is what disturbs me the most.

Why are people not up in arms about the fact that another Country meddled in our election? It boggles my mind the way some of my fellow countryman are excepting this.....

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:32 PM

41. Put Auntie Maxine in charge

Of impeachment and give her 12 freshman Congresspersons.
Drastic times call for drastic measures.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:48 PM

43. Bravo AD! Brilliantly stated. New leaders needed...

With absolutely no disrespect to any of the great Democrats when have served so well.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:49 PM

45. I feel sure that there's not a Democrat in Congress

that wouldn't love to impeach trump. It's pointless to impeach him if he won't be convicted in the Senate. All it will do is make it more difficult for us to win in 2020.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:52 PM

47. Think it's quite brilliant of you pointing to Hoyer. The alternative

would make you persona non gratis here

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:45 AM

56. When and how did Hoyer say "letting trump go Scott free is a good idea"?

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:17 AM

58. Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue

and Democrats would claim it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. I am disgusted.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #63)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:53 PM

71. I must be careful how I phrase this

as I have already had a post removed today. I do hope we can gently nudge our leadership in the right direction. Maybe that is what they want us to do. Leave them no choice but take a stand. It is the principled patriotic thing to do. I have always believed we were capable of being both of these things -- far more so than some Republicans. But we cannot look away from the hard choices. Voters will judge us. History will judge us. The Right will spin our reluctance and throw it back in our faces. If we categorically refuse to bring charges of Impeachment against Trump given the enormity of his crimes, we are also guilty of obstructing justice if we don't do the right thing.

The majority of the rank and file back impeachment.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:57 AM

59. Imeachment Hearings will give Trump his best chance of winning in 2020...

 

...let the House Committees have oversight and let's beat this asshole at the ballot box.

Let's try to stay away for the Custer Strategy.

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Response to louis c (Reply #59)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:58 PM

72. Elizabeth Warren is calling on the house to start impeachment hearings ASAP

65% of Americans call for it. I am not getting how doing the right thing is a bad strategy.

It would be GOP defenders who would squirm as their tinpot dictator is torn apart before their very eyes. I want to see Trump forced to testify. He has not had his Captain Queeg moment yet. When he does it will be on live TV. I want Democrats to be there witnessing the event. If it was the 19th century, I'd want him to be exiled for life on a god-forsaken rock in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

He needs to be held up as an example to future presidents.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #72)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:58 PM

89. Well, you're almost correct...

 

...it's 68% of Democrats, but 36% overall.

You see, in the General Election they let more than Democrats vote. Now do you get why the Republicans are baiting us?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/politics/cnn-poll-impeachment-trump-russia/index.html

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Response to louis c (Reply #89)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:53 AM

91. Louis you are a union man

Would you walk away from doing the right thing if this was strike talk?

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #91)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 11:28 AM

92. I would only recomend a strike if we had a chance to win...

 

...if the strike would close down the business for good or if the members support wasn't overwhelming, I would continue to talk at the table and not recommend a strike if the odds of success were equal to getting 67 votes for impeachment of Trump in the Senate. Now, a lock out is quite different. Then the issue is forced upon the workers and the company has made the choice. But, in your analogy, this is more like a strike vote than a lock out, and I would never advise workers to walk off a cliff in an effort to prove a point with no chance to win. It is similar. Would you want to attempt to remove Trump from office by impeachment or at the ballot box? So, when I evaluate a situation like this, we both agree that the right thing is removing Trump from office. As I weigh the options, I find that it will be far easier to obtain 270 electoral votes in November 2020 than attempting to get 67 Senators now. As we continue to use your analogy, if I determined that to sign a one year extension of a contract with the understanding that I would be in a far better position for settling a contract in my favor a year from now, that's what I'd do.

"The right thing" is not losing.

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Response to louis c (Reply #92)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 03:06 PM

96. Very well put.

I've always wondered about folks who would turn down a $2 an hr raise because they wanted 3

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Response to louis c (Reply #92)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:31 PM

101. Well said, louis c.

"The right thing" is not losing.

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Response to louis c (Reply #92)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:25 AM

116. We won the House because people wanted Trump impeached

All the people I communicate with believed voting out the Republicans in 18 meant we'd finally feel strong enough to take Trump down. We will lose voters who feel we let them down again by refusing to do something to correct the worst crisis in our nation's history.

You place a lot of faith in the ability for any party to honestly win 270 electoral votes clean of Russian meddling or hacking in 2020. I do not. The fix was in in 2016 and it will be again in 2020. If the swing states are stolen, we'll be right back where we are again with Trump claiming victory and vindication. That is just as much a risk as impeaching him. It is how a nation who claims to believe in the rule of law should act.

I kind of think the wheels are already in motion. I hope so.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #116)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 10:33 AM

118. No way...

 

...Some Democrats beat some Democratic incumbents because the people in that district were for impeachment.

But we won the House because moderate Democrats in swing districts, or districts won by Trump beat incumbent Republicans.

In order to control the House, a party needs a majority. Democrats beating Democrats does not add to Dem seats. Dems beating Reps is how we took the House.

As a matter of fact, few, if any, Democratic candidates in these moderate districts even mentioned impeachment.

Trying to tell loyal Democrats that the election "fix is in" does Russia's work for them. Nothing could suppress our vote more than convincing our voters that their votes won't count.

Let's take your theory to it's ultimate conclusion. Trump gets impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate. Pence becomes President. If the fix is in for Trump, why wouldn't it be in for Pence?

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Response to louis c (Reply #118)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 10:59 AM

119. For me, impeachment is the only option

the only thing that will restore my faith in government. Refusing to do so is obstructing justice, somewhat spineless and I and many others believe will ultimately be more harmful than whatever spin the GOP attempts to use against us to prop up their corrupt president.

Pence I am unworried about. He has the personality of a dead fish. I doubt he could win an election any easier than Cheney. They will look high and low however to find the worst possible person on earth to nominate as they always do.

We need to keep the heat on Trump. It is not like we are manufacturing evidence of wrongdoing. Impeachment would send a message that in America no one is not above the law.

It may be an uphill battle, but I fear it is our generation's fight and we can't walk away from it.

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Response to louis c (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 02:55 PM

93. I agree with you 100%. Its SO obvious. Trump would not be convicted.

Dont spite yourself to prove a point. But that seems to be driving so many people

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:40 PM

62. Hoyer walked back his statement 3 hours later,

saying that impeachment is not off the table.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:19 PM

68. Not cool to name-call those with a difference of opinion.

There are different views:

1. Impeach to get accountability and make a record for history. It may cause the Democrats to lose the Presidential election, which ironically, means that Trump would be FREE to do Lord knows what, since he knows he won't be removed from office or indicted.

2. Impeach. It does NOT cause Democrats to lose the election, so it's a win-win.

3. Don't impeach. That has no effect on the election, which may or may not mean Trump wins. If he wins, he will do God knows what in his second term, knowing he won't be indicted or removed from office, and his supporters will stick with him, no matter what.

4. Don't impeach. It may cause the Democrats to lose the Presidential election, if enough Democrats are ticked off enough about not impeaching. Which means that Trump would be free to do whatever crimes he wants in his four years, since he knows he won't be indicted or removed from office.

No viewpoint is any worthier than another. NONE of them is "milk toast," as the OP name-called them.

Remember that you're speaking about Democrats who have performed well for years and have fought against Trump since 2017. Each viewpoint, and each Democrat is worthy of respect.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #68)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:05 PM

73. Thank you for at least trying to sort it out

In good conscience, I can accept no other option than impeachment of Trump. To do so would be to obstruct justice myself.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #73)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:29 PM

77. Congress has been investigating for months.

Some people don't know that. They got to work on planning their investigations back in January. They quietly work, and request documents, research, plan an investigation strategy, held a hearing with Michael Cohen, etc.

None of us is an expert in these things. There are things we don't know. For instance, I just learned today that one strategy could be to take our time doing the investigations, to make sure all the sordid details get out to the public. For the end goal of indicting him after he leaves office. Maybe impeach or not beforehand...but indicting him for his crimes would really hold him accountable. I didn't know that was an option.

Congress has more leeway in investigations than the Mueller Team, who was restricted in certain ways. Congress has a lot of power, being one of the three branches of govt.

This isn't a sprint, I think. It's a marathon. Pelosi is being very careful to make sure they have the goods before they act.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #77)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:23 PM

79. I think they need the public to get out the pitchforks and torches

It fortifies them going into this thing. Democrats like Elizabeth Warren and OAC are coming out in favor of impeachment. Do you know of others? We need to have their backs.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #79)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:31 PM

80. They've got it covered. They started plans back in January....

But we don't know everything. Impeachment at this time is premature.

They're looking at EVERYTHING. Not just obstruction and conspiracy. They want to make sure the public understands, in addition to Congress, what Trump has done.

I also learned another tool could be indictment after he leaves office. Not just impeachment.

But it takes time to review, analyze, and conduct hearings. Mueller is appearing before Congress in May. So is Barr (again). Tax returns, documents from 81 people/orgs....There's a lot to do. There's no rush.

It's best to have the ducks in a row before going forward without all the evidence there is or before the public comprehends all that Trump has done.

Sounds like a plan.

First...they need the unredacted report. And the tax returns.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #80)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:35 PM

81. It's hard to stay on simmer

when everything Trump says makes your blood boil. I sure hope you are right about the "plan."

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #81)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:39 PM

82. It would be nice for impeachment papers...

to be able to list EVERYTHING Congress finds. Not just obstruction, but maybe conspiracy or aiding & abetting, tax evasion, fraud, whatever.

Then to be able to file a secret indictment for some of those things.

But the public has to be behind it, don't you think? And that means letting his crimes and actions trickle out daily for a while, while people get a picture of what has gone on.

Right now, many people just saw Barr on the news and think Trump was totally cleared. And that the Democrats just won't give up...personal vendetta. (Not the true blue Democrats, of course.)

It's not up to me. Maybe once they see the full Mueller Report, they'll go "Holy sh*t! This is worse than we thought!" and file impeachment papers immediately, saving the rest for possible indictment.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #68)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:02 PM

90. Any Democrat that votes sits out the GE, votes 3rd party or for Trump...

 

...deserves the country they get.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #68)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 03:04 PM

95. Anyone who sits at home because they dont get their way is a vote for trump.

These pouting whiners would contribute to re electing trump & we all know he doesnt give a shit HOW he wins.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:28 PM

76. REPRESETATIVE Hoyer.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:51 PM

78. Bill Clinton was impeached in December 1998 and Gore "lost" in 2000.

I couldn't agree more with your bewilderment over Democratic trepidations toward impeachment. Not only did Gore "lose", the House remained in GOP control as did the Senate (a 50-50 tie) with Cheney breaking the tie.

For those too timid to act for fear of future elections, how exactly did the Republicans suffer for unsuccessfully trying to remove Clinton from office? They didn't. They obtained more power than they held before impeachment.

Begin impeachment proceedings against the traitorous Don the Con already and show the American people that we will fight for what is right.

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Response to cureautismnow (Reply #78)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:36 PM

88. And yet Clinton's popularity soared after they failed to convict

...and if he had been on the ballot in 2000 he would certainly have won.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:35 PM

87. statutes of limitations

I'm on the fence about impeachment at this point, but Maddow just referenced the statute of limitations dates on some of Trump's crimes that have so far been revealed in the redacted report. They are in the summer of 2022. Of course he did not prosecute these crimes because he followed DOJ guidelines not to indict a sitting president. What this means is that if you go all in on impeachment when you know you don't have the republican votes, and Trump's popularity rises as Clinton's did when you fail to convict (debatable I know), and this helps him stay in office until 2024... then you indeed have contributed to letting him go "scott free" as you said.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #87)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 03:00 PM

94. Seems all the more important to focus on beating him in 2020

 

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 07:17 PM

99. Where are you getting your talking points

that you think Hoyer is a Senator? He is House Majorty Leader. He is a powerful Democrat with good instincts and a great deal of experience. He has good liberal values. The far left of our party wants to primary him, too, weakening our coalition.

Calling for his resignation is foolish. You have no right to judge who is a "real American."

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:09 PM

100. In reality, even if the eight or ten detailed counts were adjudicated and he was convicted,

the fool would probably be pardoned by whomever the next president is. History has frowned on jailing past presidents, although in this sad case, Iíd like to see him serve a long stint. But, even if convicted, heíll probably be set free.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:08 PM

102. Take a deep breath

 

Whatís the mission?
Whatís the point?


Flailing like a teenage girl who doesnít get their way or doing the job the constitution demands?

Are you going to unseat DJT through impeachment?
Really? Really? If so Iíll be on ďthe VoiceĒ next week - thatís the ultimate -ďno wayĒ

Wouldnít it be better to show the electorate the leadership and integrity they have been missing

Or donít you care?

If your anger is fuelling your actions and thoughts,
You have already lost

Gotta be strong gotta be bold. Gotta be wiser

America wants hope
They donít want MORE dirty laundry at this point.

I am soo afraid Dems are going to put
Pedal to the metal right over a cliff.

2020 means so much more

Trump gone

Supreme Court - 1 maybe 2 justices

Put down the blunt and think long game

They will.

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Response to Poohbearpicnic (Reply #102)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 11:50 PM

108. Hmmm. Same arguments over and over. Impeach!!!

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:14 PM

103. I think defeating Trump in 2020 should be a priority

That way, he is no longer immune from indictments and he can be charged then by OUR justice dept.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 11:17 PM

106. Hoyer is my representative.

I will be writing him a letter stating that Donald Trump has clearly violated his oath to protect the Constitution and should be impeached.

Would impeachment have political risks? Of course, but the more strongly the body politic speak out on this issue the more our elected officials will see that not listening to our voices is a greater political risk.

History books are full of "what ifs". I don't have all the answers and no one knows the future. But I know what I feel is right as someone with a layperson's understanding of our democratic union. I will not be silent.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 11:23 PM

107. To get the report Congress has to say they are

starting a preliminary investigation and if Barr doesn't hand it over and this obstruction is allowed the US of A is in very very deep shit!

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 05:30 PM

114. Hoyer is a milk toast Dem. Enough of the free pass and waffling BS.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 01:12 AM

117. Hoyer is in the House, but that doesn't matter in this sense.

Steny is the same as all of the corporate Dems and we donít care what he thinks because he is Republican light. We need strong leadership and strong messaging from the Democrats in this time of peril. Progressive messaging is the way to win because most people given the details of a progressive agenda agree whole heartedly, but when given this information, couched in a right wing agenda, fail to represent most people.

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Response to Augiedog (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 02:38 PM

122. 'Obstruction of justice' is a very specific crime.

What, exactly, has Barr done that fits within the statutory definition (18 U.S.C. ß 1503)? I'm no fan of Barr's, but the only thing worse than an ill-timed 'shot' is an ill-timed shot that misses the target...

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