"libertarianism"

many years ago .... "Libertarianism is like Republicans on steroids."

I spoke with one who lives in his mommy's basement but he's all for keeping all of his wealth - as soon as his parents die.

Typical libertarian.

AFAIC, it's entirely true. In it's purest forms, libertarianism is anarchic and borderline nihilistic.

Many people conflate anarchists, objectivists, and libertarians all together. That is an error.

You're going to realize when and if you ever grow up that you live downstream from someone too.

We all do. Except for the ultimate greedy libertarians who get to the top. Like trump.

He is a stupid greedy man with no wisdom. That does not even qualify him as an Objectivist, let alone much else.

You write:



Do you impress many readers and win many arguments that way?


Post in total:

I believe people who fall for cheap economic tricks are rather "youthful" in their acceptance of whatever dogma they're being fed.

I was just commenting on the apparently "youthful" underdevelopment of their supposed economic theory.

In other words, I believe "libertarianism" is rooted in simple human greed and if simple human greed is all someone is about they should just be up front and say so instead of hiding behind some ridiculous patina of "libertarianism" as an excuse for their greed.

The saga of human improvement as a race is a saga of cooperation. If we lived by "libertarian" standards we'd still be living in caves.

Or basements.

Isn't that character like the lunar John Galt?

Yeah, he is.

There is a basic fallacy in that lunar revolution story of your hero namesake. "libertarians" never would be able to reach the moon in the first place.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. That would be a signal to most people they should stop.

And in reality too.

Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't give you the right to call them a troll, does it?

I don't agree with you but I'm not calling you a troll. Perhaps it is you who should stop.

That's the antithesis of disagreement, no?

Then the OP proceeds to insult most DU members since most members are younger than the OP who styles himself as 1950s Democrat.

To start, Ayn Rand is not a libertarian. She is an Objectivist and there is a huge difference. Paul Ryan is not a libertarian.

It's very easy to set up Objectivists and call them libertarians if you want to make a back-handed attack against libertarianism and that is what the (old) article the OP quotes from. It's the old straw man approach and not reputable.

and action. The first ten amendments are all about libertarianism and how it must be enforced when society and/or the government become oppressive.

Responsible freedom, of course and it is a foundation of democracy. Unfortunately, too many alleged libertarians have confused it with anarchy and given it a bad name.

Objectivism is simply that you're on your own and tough shit if you can't make or take it.

As the so-called "Christians" in the "religious" right.

They're perverted their entire belief system in an orgy of self-prostitution to rampant capitalist greed.

IMO.

continue to spread the misinformation about it.

But hers is the accepted "libertarian" dogma now.

How libertarian of you.

LOFL

That's some sick shit. we aren't wolves. no offense to wolves

It was an exercise in sociological/economic/humanist destruction.

ayn rand's face reflected her sick and tortured soul and now our nation, including some who call themselves Democrats right here on DU, reflects that horrid, nightmare face as well.



IMO

For those who don't know, watch the interview and see for yourselves.

... especially the younger ones who managed to get through high school and college reading very few actual books.

This chart is over-simplified and I don't like the fact that it shows Libertarians in the BEST POSSIBLE way. But it does demonstrate many of their core beliefs and where they differ with liberals and conservatives.



The important thing to understand is that 35 or 40 years the Libertarian Party turned a corner and went rogue. They'll stop at nothing to overturn our US Constitution and our laws, if they think it will help in their quest to pay no taxes and take no responsibility for government.

Never met anyone who believed in all of that shit, it might be interesting.

amusedly,
Bright

Their ideas are a little, shall we say, ASKEW.

Even if they are "self-styled" - lofl.

What's trump? A "self-styled repubican"???

LOFL!

Acceptance of a greed-driven philosophy like "libertarianism" leaves little wiggle room.

They're the ones who devised this chart.

explain in your framework what those living in a different framework believe.

You don't recognize yourself in how (L) present you to yourself; they won't recognize themselves in how (D) present (L) to themselves.

The last talks I had in depth with any libertarians occurred a while back. But he had such "toxic" and "un-Democratic" views as freedom of speech, legalization of controlled substances, legalization of same-sex marriage, all on the same basis as (D) did: Keep government from controlling what you did in private or, if there was no overt harm, in public.

Most of his views are now dubbed "progressive." Not all. Some were "conservative". If all you see is one part of his views, he was a RWer; if all you see is another part, he was left of many progressives. Without the "government has to remake society and force this to happen so please, give me all the authority over others that I need" approach.

on paper you can make an argument for it, but in real life it fails horribly.

Especially when they can use them against us. They really wind up helping the repubicans every election year.

Which is just about all you can be expected to accomplish as a libertarian.

all those suffering from our current temporary (effects of transition period between old ways and healthier future) but humongous epidemic illnesses, such as kidney and lung disease?
Carrying that thought to its natural conclusion brings us of course to mass death. But few care to. Loss of a lot of jobs also. No need for all those dialysis clinics or nursing homes that have sprung up all over.

Typical oldER problems? Gallbladder disease plus bone spur removal? How many people's retirement savings would last to retirement?

What about what it would do to us socially? When keeping or losing one's job would mean life or destitution and then death for many, how many firings would an employer agonize over before toughening up?

Your reasons for rejecting it are not very helpful, because they don't explain what libertarian values are in the first place. You are correct in identifying the values of Ayn Rand's "Virtue of Selfishness" as a great motivating factor for libertarians. Libertarians would like to do away with as much gov as possible, except may the military, do away with taxes, and base wealth on the gold standard. Privatize everything that isn't nailed down. So you need a fire dept to save your house, if you aren't a subscriber of that service, too bad, Want to drive any where? Pay a toll for every mile you drive.

I posted the link for explanation. Here are partial excerpts. Much more at the link below.

1. Libertarian values are repellent--Libertarianism celebrates greed and selfishness. Of course not all libertarians follow Ayn Rand in saying that openly, but that’s really what it’s all about. Am I being unfair? After all, libertarians sincerely believe in the wonders of free markets, and it just happens that greed and selfishness work well with free markets. So, you might argue, libertarians don’t necessarily have different values from you and me, just different beliefs about what works and what doesn’t. I don’t buy that. The plain fact is, libertarians by and large are simply not much bothered by social and economic inequality: their hearts bleed for the rich and successful, not for the underprivileged.

2. Libertarianism is intellectually myopic--Libertarians cherish freedom above all, but their concept of freedom is constricted and myopic. They understand freedom almost exclusively in terms of freedom from government, not recognizing that unfettered capitalism--the libertarians’ beloved free market economy--can be as great a threat to freedom as government action.

3. Libertarianism is utopian--An active state is a universal feature of advanced societies. The minimal government society that libertarians envision doesn’t exist anywhere in the industrial or post-industrial world, and never has, for good reason. Advanced capitalism simply doesn’t function without a fairly active, interventionist public sector.

4. Libertarianism is politically hopeless--You might well agree with me on the three preceding points but still feel that libertarianism has to be reckoned with politically--hasn’t Ron Paul shown that his creed has real popular appeal? My short answer would be that Paul’s ability to garner the vote of 20% of Iowa and New Hampshire Republican Party enthusiasts says very close to nothing about libertarianism’s mass appeal. My longer answer is that libertarians can never achieve mass appeal because libertarians, unlike conservatives, are hobbled by their principled consistency. Libertarian and conservative economic programs basically serve the interests of a relatively small portion of the population.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/1/17/1055627/-