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Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:12 PM

There is another French Gift to the U.S.A. And it is a Great Gift..

It is an old gift, but one that has lasted a long time. France was England's enemy during the mid 1700s. The two were powerful, hateful enemies. So, when the 13 colonies decided to seek independence, guess who helped them out in a whole lot of ways. You can look that one up if you want. Yes, France helped us gain our independence from England. Not a bad gift I would say. That is in the history books if you want to check it out.

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Reply There is another French Gift to the U.S.A. And it is a Great Gift.. (Original post)
Stuart G Apr 15 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 15 #1
Stuart G Apr 15 #2
The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 15 #4
okaawhatever Tuesday #23
ismnotwasm Thursday #40
roamer65 Apr 15 #3
Stinky The Clown Apr 15 #5
dai13sy Apr 15 #7
Stonepounder Apr 15 #14
YOHABLO Apr 15 #16
llmart Tuesday #25
radical noodle Wednesday #34
YOHABLO Thursday #39
radical noodle Thursday #41
Mr. Evil Tuesday #21
needledriver Apr 15 #6
FailureToCommunicate Apr 15 #12
HubertHeaver Apr 15 #17
FailureToCommunicate Tuesday #24
HubertHeaver Tuesday #33
bdjhawk Apr 15 #8
BigmanPigman Apr 15 #10
sandensea Apr 15 #9
The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 15 #11
sandensea Apr 15 #18
Progressive2020 Apr 15 #13
appalachiablue Apr 15 #15
raging moderate Tuesday #19
The Velveteen Ocelot Tuesday #20
raging moderate Tuesday #22
pangaia Tuesday #32
Zoonart Tuesday #28
Botany Tuesday #26
rickford66 Tuesday #27
lark Tuesday #29
Stuart G Tuesday #30
ECL213 Tuesday #31
Post removed Wednesday #35
BlueMTexpat Wednesday #37
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #38
BlueMTexpat Wednesday #36

Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:17 PM

1. Everybody knows who Lafayette was. At least, I hope they do.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:20 PM

2. Please assume nothing....Most here might know Lafayette..Most or Some?

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:27 PM

4. If they don't, they need to get their ignorant asses back to middle school,

which is where we all learned about Lafayette. Or at least read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_du_Motier,_Marquis_de_Lafayette

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:39 AM

23. There are a crap ton of cities named Fayetteville after him. nt

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:22 AM

40. No, they don't.

Sadly.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:21 PM

3. The French literally drained their treasury dry to support our war of liberation.

The Spanish contributed a good amount of Spanish American silver to fund our war against Britain.

The Spanish and French hated Britain...viscerally.

https://www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org/encounters/the-american-revolution-story-has-a-hole-the-size-of-spain/

Our dollar gained its name from the Spanish American eight reales or “dollar”. In fact, Spanish American reales were monetized all the way up to 1857.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:30 PM

5. All so very true.

I wonder if such facts are still taught in schools today.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:56 PM

7. I doubt it!!

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:55 PM - Edit history (2)

I am amazed daily at what they DON'T teach in school these days.

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Response to dai13sy (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:51 PM

14. My wife was a substitute teacher back in the '90s.

She tells of Jr. HS students who didn't know what the holocaust was!

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:54 PM

16. Trust me, most of the middle school teachers today are just as ignorant.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:26 AM

25. I trust you.

I was a substitute teacher for awhile in both middle school and high school. I subbed in a math class once where the regular teacher had put a math/Algebra problem on the board plus the solution and method she used to get the answer. When I got to the math class before students arrived, I saw immediately that the answer was incorrect and I could see immediately where the mistake in her solution was.

I went home so discouraged. Also, I have one niece who was hired as a science teacher in middle school and my brother, whose child it was said to me, "I can't believe she's going to be a science teacher because that was her worst subject in high school."

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:23 AM

34. When did Democrats start bashing teachers?

My husband and daughter are teachers AND Democrats, along with many friends. Please stop generalizing about stuff like this.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:20 AM

39. I can only speak from experience. It is what it is. Not bashing all teachers.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #39)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:53 AM

41. You said MOST middle school teachers

are ignorant. That's pretty much encompassing the group.

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Response to dai13sy (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:48 AM

21. They're probably teaching what a great scholar and novelist Ayn Rand was.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:51 PM

6. Careful throwing reality

at the conventional “wisdom” of the plucky Colonials hiding behind rocks and trees and kicking the Redcoats asses.

The Revolution would have failed utterly if not for massive support from the French; weapons, uniforms, cash, an army, and a navy! Don’t think the French were doing it for altruistic reasons - they fully expected to step into the power vacuum created when the new American experiment failed and thus regain North America!

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Response to needledriver (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:32 PM

12. Interesting outlook. They were still smarting from the French & Indian War, and

wanted back in?

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:56 PM

17. The French were still in North America.

They had Louisiana and all land west of the Mississippi.

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Response to HubertHeaver (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:31 AM

24. Oh, I know of course. I just had not heard that reason for France's assistance.

That France hoped the Colonial revolt would fail. I thought it took lot's of arm twisting to convince the French king to come to the Colonies aid, and even then only reluctantly. But, certainly the the French fleet's late but overwhelming arrival near Yorktown (the navel battle of the Chesapeake) finally greatly helped end the seven year conflict.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:04 PM

33. Consider what could have been had the French monarchy not fallen.

French control of New Orleans and the entire Great Plains. English control of Canada. Russia controlling Alaska and the West Coast and Spain controlling Texas and the Southwest. That upstart wanna be country on the eastern seaboard wouldn't have had a chance.

But with the collapse of the French monarchy and the rise of Napoleon, all hell broke loose.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:13 PM

8. Remember MAGAt types going non-stop

On “Freedom Fries” when the French had the audacity to ask for real proof instead of blindly joining Bush & Co using fake “proof” to start a war in the Middle East?

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Response to bdjhawk (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:19 PM

10. Sure do. I went to France for that reason in 2005.

I brought my book "Dude, Where's My Country?" by Michael Moore so that the French would not think I supported that ass. Whenever I asked the citizens how they felt about the US they were so cool and their long history was evident. They always told me, "governments come and governments go....things will change back again". THEY made ME feel better about our loser POTUS. I loved France and the people from when I first went there in '97 and I knew I had to return with my dog.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:15 PM

9. I remember people trying to remind Rethugs of that, as they poured French wine down the drain

All because France was trying to warn us against invading Iraq.

Which goes to show how difficult it is to be a good friend sometimes.

And that's what France has always been for us: the good friend, with a hell of a lot more experience with the ways of the world that we have (or anyone else in the new world).

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Response to sandensea (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:29 PM

11. I was at a family dinner that included my right-winger SIL at about that time,

and I'd brought a bottle of a nice French wine. SIL refused to drink it. I said, "Great; that's more for me."

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:57 PM

18. Tant mieux!

It's incredible how fanatical right-wingers got about the Iraq invasion - which is why, 15 years later, their slavish devotion to Cheeto never surprises me.

Il sont fous!

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:40 PM

13. Vive La France!

They are an old ally and also a great champion of democracy throughout history. So much of the philosophy and spirit of democracy comes from the French, without whom we would not have won the Revolutionary War. Vive La France!

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:54 PM

15. Vive La France, et presente, Georges Washington de La Fayette (1779-1849)

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:12 AM - Edit history (1)



Wiki. Washington Louis Gilbert de La Fayette (1779–1849) was the son of Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette, the French officer and hero of the American Revolution, and Adrienne de La Fayette. The elder La Fayette named his son in honor of George Washington, under whom he served in the Revolutionary War. From 1783, La Fayette grew up in the Hôtel de La Fayette at 183 rue de Bourbon, Paris. Their home was the headquarters of Americans in Paris. Benjamin Franklin, John and Sarah Livingston Jay, and John and Abigail Adams met there every Monday. They dined with the La Fayette family as well as with the liberal nobility, such as Clermont-Tonnerre, Madame de Staël, Morellet, and Marmontel.

In 1789, the French Revolution began. After 10 September 1792, in the wake of the September Massacres, La Fayette went into hiding with his tutor, Felix Frestrel. His mother was put under house arrest and, later, in prison. On 22 July 1794, his great-grandmother, Catherine de Cossé-Brissac, duchesse de Noailles, his grandmother, Henriette-Anne-Louise d'Aguesseau, duchesse d'Ayen, and aunt, Anne Jeanne Baptiste Louise, vicomtesse d'Ayen, were guillotined.

Exile from France: In April 1795, Georges was sent to America with Frestrel. While there, he studied at Harvard, and he was a house guest of George Washington at the presidential mansion in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and at the Washington family home, Mount Vernon, Virginia...Lafayette's visit to America: Georges accompanied his father on the latter's triumphant visit to America in 1824 and 1825. Throughout most of the long tour, he kept close company with his father's secretary, Auguste Levasseur. They observed a volunteer fire company turnout in New York City. He met George Washington Parke Custis at Arlington House. He visited Mount Vernon, and he met Thomas Jefferson at Monticello.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Washington_de_La_Fayette

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:22 AM

19. And now, what can we do for them?

What do they need from us in this, their hour of need?

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Response to raging moderate (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:25 AM

20. Macron will be starting a fund-raising campaign tomorrow.

We will probably find out then how to contribute.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:31 AM

22. The people of France gave us the Statue of Liberty.

They collected their sous and their francs from all kinds of people all over France until they had enough to pay for the construction and shipment of that statue to us. It was an extraordinary act of love! This was after they helped us to win our Independence. We have to help them now.

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Response to raging moderate (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:59 PM

32. And it was members of La COMPAGNON DU DEVOIR who did the restoration work on it.


http://www.historicalcarpentry.com/compagnonnage.html

As well, it was they who built many of the great cathedrals of the Middle Ages -


https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/opinion/26iht-edjohnson.1.8482430.html

The Compagnons attempt to restore pride in manual work. Their forbears helped build Europe's great cathedrals and more recently retrained Parisian woodworkers to assemble the Eiffel Tower in Paris. A group of Compagnons from near Reims in France moved to New Jersey for several months in 1999 to restore parts of the Statue of Liberty.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:35 AM

28. I have read that over #350 Million has already been donated by the billionaire

owners of some of the luxury brands of Paris.

A good start.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:31 AM

26. The French Navy skirmished the British Navy so they could not help out ...

... Cornwallis @ the battle of Yorktown.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:34 AM

27. Haiti also supplied troops to fight with us during the Revolution.

I wonder if Trump knew this. One reason we should never forget them when they need help.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:41 AM

29. There would be no USA without Frances' help and intervention.

Love France, it's such a beautiful place, they really take care of their antiquities - that's why this is such a shock. They are routinely refurbishing many cathedrals every year, this should not have happened.

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Response to lark (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:52 AM

30. Most people in the U.S.A. do not know what you have written at the top of your post. (near no.29)

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:11 PM

31. Yeah, if it weren't for the French...

we would all be speaking English today.

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:18 AM

37. Someone clearly got up

on the wrong side of the bed.

Whatever their rationale and yes, their well-earned hatred of England (centuries of war and occupation can do that) definitely played a significant role, they did it.

The financial drain might have been the final tipping point for precipitating the French Revolution.

Lafayette had to flee France during the Revolution or he might well have been decapitated. He was later reinstated as a respected elder statesman and remained active in French politics. Here's a brief overview with some interesting tidbits about his life. https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-the-marquis-de-lafayette

Rochambeau, the other best-known French aristocrat to assist Washington with his ultimate victory, never fled France, but was arrested during the Terror. He was not executed, but retired to his country estate and stayed well out of politics until his death early in the 19th century. http://www.anb.org/view/10.1093/anb/9780198606697.001.0001/anb-9780198606697-e-0300605

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Response to Post removed (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:34 AM

38. Where does the OP say that?



France had significant territory here themselves and as with many strategic thinkers, the enemy of my enemy applies. But that doesn't preclude the OP's characterizing it as a "gift" to the colonists... or are metaphors too difficult to understand?

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Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:02 AM

36. This is so true. I remember

learning about the Marquis de Lafayette, even in my little elementary school in Podunk, MT.

Of course, he was the ONLY one that I remember as being mentioned at all, primarily due to his close friendship with Washington. In reality, he was far from alone. We would NOT have prevailed in that struggle without assistance from France.

Here are some worthwhile sites to check out:

How France Helped Win the American Revolution https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/how-france-helped-win-american-revolution

A quick overview: http://www.americaslibrary.gov/jb/revolut/jb_revolut_francoam_1.html

French Alliance, French Assistance and European Diplomacy https://history.state.gov/milestones/1776-1783/french-alliance

One Wikipedia overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War

These are only a few of the many that can be found. Yet all too many Americans know - or care - nothing about this.

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