HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » If I was Nancy Pelosi.......

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 09:24 PM

If I was Nancy Pelosi....I would...let the American people decide

If I was Nancy, I would declare....Trump has put America into a fact-fact zone, where he has weaponized lying and criminal activities to a point where traditional institutions no longer serve "their" purpose, but his.. and only his. I would force him to play by a new set of rules...the american legal rules.

Under our Constitution, the House has the power to impeach, in effect serving as prosecutor. The Senate has the sole power to conduct impeachment trials, essentially serving as jury and judge.

If I was Nancy, I would stop using politics because that is Trump's #1 game. Instead of politics, I would use the House's constitutional power of checks and balances when dealing with the President. All politicians, on both sides "play politics" and we all know and accept it. The term "playing politics" means... to say or do things for political reasons instead of doing what is right or what is best for other people.

During the 2016 Republican primaries, Trump defeated 17 professional politician by just.... playing dirty politics. During the primaries, Trump did not have plans, a platform, or policies-- just a junk yard dog brand of politics...and it worked.

Junk yard dog politics is disapproving to most people because it's based solely on introducing unfavorable PREJUDICIAL EVIDENCE. Prejudicial evidence is not allowed to be introduced during any court proceedings because it wrongfully influences a jury and in our case the public. That's the law... it can not be used in a legal context. But Trump, the man, uses prejudicial evidence as the core of his political operations and in his speech...that is just how the man operates. We all have heard him...I'm rich, I'm the smartest, they are criminals, they are treasonous, etc...saying it all with little or no supporting evidence.

Open an impeachment inquiry...and all of Trump's speech must pass the legal muster. If I was Nancy, my cause would be impeachment.

Not an Impeachment Vote...just an official inquiry, an investigation, a fact finding mission. I would use all of the authorities provided to the House by Article 1 of the Constitution to discover any high crimes and misdemeanors. Yes, the Senate and the Supreme Court have their own authorities, but neither one can take action until after the House has acted. The courts can strike down individual congressional actions, but, they do not sit in judgment over any internal House deliberations.

I would stop using political strategies designed for us to win the next election, when at the end of day, the political calculation is always going to be...Does this help or hurt our chances to win the next election? Its the circle to nowhere.
Republicans are willing to lose, why aren't we? I would stop focusing on the elections, because winning "His" next election is all that Trump cares about. God, country, the flag, apple pie, babies, and the entire Republican party are just tools to help him win. Trump ran for President for personal POWER and to make money.

Being President is Trump's center of gravity. Center of gravity (a military term) is described as the hub of all power and movement on which everything depends, the point at which all energies should be directed.

I would focus on the Office of the President, not the man or his "presidential" policies and actions. I would stop all efforts focused on driving his polling numbers down, because he does not care. He wants a false straw man to use during an election, where "playing dirty" is just good raw (red meat) politics that the-- win at any cost crowd...loves.

I would Stop the President! A very comparable idiom is "to cut the head off the snake" It means to stop a larger problem by aiming at the source - often the leader, or a major culprit. The implication is that the rest of the problem will naturally die off without that source. Isn't that what you are seeing him do with your own two eyes? Trump's source of power is Article 2 of the Constitution.

Impeachment is the only action that limits a President's constitutional powers. Just like going to jail is the ultimate result for breaking the law....Impeachment is the ultimate result for breaking the Presidential Oath of Office.

I would start with attacking Trump's constitutional power with my own constitutional power!! I would clearly state Trump is innocent until proven guilty...but the American People (the House) have unlimited constitutional POWER to INVESTIGATE.

Trump knows the Democrat's greatness fear is political overreach and being sweep out of power. Democrats are playing within rules, while Trump is breaking the rules. Trying to convince voters to vote him out of office, relies on politics.. and we all know ...politics involves lying, cheating and corruption--and who is the best at all of those things?

Now, add in the Republican Party's bullshit "Unitary Executive Power Theory" which says the President possesses the power to control the any and all aspects of the executive branch. Middle of road voters are left with this core choice....Is he being Strong or Is he Wrong? Lastly, slap some brute industrial strength, dirty, unapologetic politics on top and we can see the reasons why he has a solid 35% poll number ...its the people who want an off leash "junk dog" in their yard, in spite of their neighbors concern.

I would start at the level of Impeachment then work my way down the list to the spy-Russia gate, Taxes, Money Laundering, etc...The list is long, so we can argue, add, or delete any of it... so to keep it simply, I would start with these two easy counts of inquiry (an investigation) as food for thought:

Count #1. Election Fraud....Trump is linked to a felony conviction (Cohen) that involved HIM. Just investigate why and how Cohen committed a crime concerning acts to defraud a presidential elections. There are several branches on this tree, but they all ends with...so why did Trump (himself) lie to cover it up. On the Cohen branch of the tree, there is case law (SDNY) that has his personal involvement--his own fingerprints.

Count# 2. Abuse of Power...Trump has abused the Article 2 powers afforded to the President.
He has dangling pardon usage, circumvented Congress advise/consent role with lawful cabinet personnel, refused and is in contempt of Congress by denying requests for testimony/documents and he has used the justice department to only to release (exculpatory only) law enforcement information for his personal and private gain.

Trump has broken rules that "no other" president has...and there will come a time when ...the House must respond like "no other".

If I was Nancy Pelosi, I would say, this must STOP!!...let the American people decide.

32 replies, 1157 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply If I was Nancy Pelosi....I would...let the American people decide (Original post)
Buffalo Soldier Monday OP
guillaumeb Monday #1
Buffalo Soldier Monday #3
Control-Z Monday #2
Buffalo Soldier Monday #4
sprinkleeninow Tuesday #5
ehrnst Tuesday #6
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #9
ehrnst Tuesday #10
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #14
ehrnst Tuesday #15
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #21
ehrnst Tuesday #22
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #24
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #16
ehrnst Tuesday #19
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #23
Scurrilous Tuesday #17
G_j Tuesday #7
Ani Yun Wiya Tuesday #8
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #12
LanternWaste Tuesday #18
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #25
ehrnst Tuesday #20
bluestarone Tuesday #11
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #13
SHRED Tuesday #26
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #27
SHRED Tuesday #29
redstateblues Tuesday #28
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #30
Kurt V. Tuesday #31
Buffalo Soldier Tuesday #32

Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 09:45 PM

1. Welcome to DU.

And impeachment is not confined to the President. Cabinet level and other officials can also be impeached.

And hearings can reveal the extent of the various Trump family crimes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:32 PM

3. Cabinet members and his kids

I think impeachment would be a game changer - His cabinet members thinks all of this is just a political game and we can't lose sight of Trump freely discussing pardons. We need to put them all (kids included) in legal jeopardy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:04 PM

2. I'm glad you wrote that, Buffalo Soldier.

I was gong to write an OP like yours. Yours is better than mine would have been. But I came to the same conclusion and believe we need to get the message to Nancy.

Welcome to DU, Buffalo Soldier!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Control-Z (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:40 PM

4. Let's do it....

We need to keep beating drum until we are heard. Like I said...making impeachment a political calculation is a circle to nowhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:02 AM

5. Most excellent layout of reasoning. 👍

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:46 AM - Edit history (1)

Has very recently come to me (in my spirit) that it's 'time'.

Yes, focus on the 'Office' of the President, not the person.

Deploy assault on *'s constitutional 'power' with 'our ' constitutional powers.

On edit: We DID win the House. For a time such as this? I take as providential.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:50 AM

6. Actually, she needs to do the job she was tasked to do by her Democratic colleagues.

Not abandon it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:04 AM

9. Colleagues?

Please provide more information on what her colleagues wanted. Did the House consider using the Article 1 tools to impeach? The main point of this OP is:

Trump has put America into a fact-fact zone, where he has weaponized lying and criminal activities to a point where traditional institutions no longer serve "their" purpose.

This is not an attack on her, this is promoting the one and only legal way the stop a Rogue President.

As you see, I'm in need of some group therapy (joke) to help me cope. Any feedback will help me see the parts I currently do not see.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:12 AM

10. Her colleagues selected her to be Speaker of the House.

As such, she makes decisions concerning many things.

The decision on when or if to impeach not a public referendum. That is a decision made by the Democratic representatives we elected, working with their leader in the house. It's their job.

This is not an attack on her, this is promoting the one and only legal way the stop a Rogue President.


Without the support of the GOP Senate, any impeachment process will not remove him from office.

In fact, it may embolden him and his supporters. He can say that he was "fully exonerated" when the GOP led Senate votes not to remove him. The GOP Senators will not cross him as long as their base supports him. The base have shown they will never believe anything negative about him, and with a failed impeachment he can say that Democrats only wanted to waste their taxpayer money to drag him through a witch hunt. He's convinced them that the Mueller report was a witch hunt he states was exonerated from, his fans are cheering and the GOP is emboldened to tell the AG to go after Democrats who called for the investigation:

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/26/706634402/bolstered-by-mueller-synopsis-republicans-go-on-offense-over-investigations

What do you think they'll do with an Impeachment "exoneration?"


This is why Pelosi said that impeachment without hard evidence AND bi-partisan support not going to go forward. Don't you think that the GOP would have impeached Obama the minute they took the house for "falsifying a birth certificate to become President" if the only thing that it took was support from their base?

I know that we have been fuming at him for years, but remember we have only had control of the house for little over three months. There are many investigations that have been started, and they will not be completed and done correctly right away, no matter how impatient we are.

Watergate took two years. Elections are in 2020. We will likely have to vote him out.








Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:29 PM

14. What do you think they'll do with an Impeachment "exoneration?"

I say that is the circle to nowhere....to me that's like we are saying... we cant, because the GOP won't. Does your local police do Not make an arrest because the DA want convict?

The GOP Senate is charged with judging the evidence...but we can't and wont be able collect evidence because Trump is using Article 2 powers to delay and deny any evidence. Yesterday, the press asked a court for the underlying evidence in the Manafort case and Trump's Justice Dept said they can't because there was other open investigations...they can deny because the public's use is less than the justice department. Congress's use is greater.

Consider rules concerning Mueller's grand jury evidence...when can it be release? During an impeachment preceding...the House is authorized to have it, because Impeachment super cedes those rules.

The GOP did not impeachment Obama because there were no evidence and in the Clinton's case they collected evidence but it didn't meet the threshold.

Impeachment is America's grand jury...a grand jury does not convict ... It indicts....and we can not indict without evidence .

My main point is there is no action that can compel a President. Using politics to win an election requires who can bark the loudest....Trump is a junk yard dog !!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:25 PM

15. Arrest does not equal impeach.

Impeachment is bringing charges against someone. One needs evidence to bring charges.

Remember how A select Senate committee was formed, and they questioned people in hearings, live on television. The testimony led them to request tapes of White House conversations.

We don't even have the results of the Mueller investigation yet.

Yesterday, the press asked a court for the underlying evidence in the Manafort case and Trump's Justice Dept said they can't because there was other open investigations..


Are you saying that congress can't get those documents unless they impeach DT?

Consider rules concerning Mueller's grand jury evidence...when can it be release?


Grand jury secrecy will not cover a great amount of the evidence Mueller collected.

Impeachment is America's grand jury...a grand jury does not convict ... It indicts....and we can not indict without evidence


None of what you are talking about requires an impeachment for congress to hold hearings and go after documentation.

My main point is there is no action that can compel a President.


What does that have to do with whether or not congress can conduct an investigation and hold hearing without having to impeach?

They were able to get testimony and documents from Michael Cohen without impeachment. I think people don't really take into account that even though we have been watching Trump use our democracy as toilet paper for two years, we have only had Congress for a few months. There wasn't anything Democrats could control until February, after the shutdown. Screaming our heads off that everything but impeachment has failed and will fail isn't really based in that reality.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:20 PM

21. Are you saying that congress can't get those documents unless they impeach DT

Yes...that is what I'm saying...they will deny and protect.

None of what you are talking about requires an impeachment for congress to hold hearings and go after documentation.
.

True..but is a it far fetch to think they will refuse? That is where the head of snake analogy comes in. Trump is trying to survive until the next election where he can yell... Witch hunt !.

A Select Committee requires a resolution (passed by both house)...Do think that will ever happen? Impeachment only involves the House.

That is the different...Impeachment does involve the Senate or any Articles 3 courts...until the House investigates.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Reply #21)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:24 PM

22. Do you have any documentation or citations that support that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:47 PM

24. Only a Joint Committee requires both houses

https://www.opensecrets.org/cong-cmtes/special

The House and the Senate each have select and special committees, which can study issues, conduct oversight of programs, and investigate reports of fraud and waste. Joint committees are unique because they are made up of members of the House and Senate.

In my opinion, if we form House Only Committee...they will shout partisan witch hunt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:38 PM

16. Attorney General Barr

During a "normal" congressional hearing....under questioning Barr...shout out...Trump was spied on...that was pure politics and it was a prejudices statement with no retribution...just a false statements to embolden the crazies and to taint the jury (the public). Just raw politics..

Now imagine Barr saying the exact statement, and we respond with....

Ok Mr Barr, we heard you and will investigate (illegal spying) by any person and Judge who participated. Mr Barr you are now a key witness and you we will use all the tools of the law to compel you testify on that subject.

Trump and his people are not normal...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:51 PM

19. I have no idea what you're saying, or how this applies to what we have been

talking about.

During a "normal" congressional hearing....under questioning Barr...shout out...Trump was spied on...that was pure politics and it was a prejudices statement with no retribution...just a false statements to embolden the crazies and to taint the jury (the public). Just raw politics..


Are you trying to say that a person who would lie under oath to congress in a hearing would not lie if that same person was testifying to the same congress about the same thing if it was impeaching DT?



I'm done.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:32 PM

23. you have no idea what you're saying, or how this applies

My Barr analogy was an attempt to explain their tactics..and Yes ,I do believe a person would lie during a normal hearing...if that person believes he has a golden parachute--a President pardon.

Thanks for the diaolog.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ehrnst (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:39 PM

17. Top notch!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:55 AM

7. agreed!! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:02 AM

8. An Excellent Post

Well said and clearly written sir.
Anyone unable to agree with this is naive or ill informed...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ani Yun Wiya (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:24 AM

12. Thanks

Let's keep banging the drum

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ani Yun Wiya (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:48 PM

18. No doubt, the most effective way to deal with opinions others than ours

"Anyone unable to agree with this is naive or ill informed..."

No doubt, the most effective way to deal with opinions others than ours is simply dismiss them. No need to allow ourselves objective evidence to support our own premise-- simply trivialize all other premises a priori and voila, no rational or critical thought necessary on our part.

Good job!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:55 PM

25. Opinion of others

My rely was not to trivialize others. I posted the original OP because I want to hear other positions to help me form my own.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ani Yun Wiya (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:52 PM

20. Because you say so?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:16 AM

11. GREAT read! TY

You make very good points in your thread!! This writer fully agrees!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestarone (Reply #11)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:31 AM

13. Write it up!!

Thanks, I'm encouraging you and all others to express the will of the people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:01 PM

26. Protect the Constitution

And the politics will take care of itself

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SHRED (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:10 PM

27. My point!

Thanks..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Reply #27)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:14 PM

29. Well said

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buffalo Soldier (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:13 PM

28. Impeachment guarantees four more years

Why don't we just humiliate him in the next election?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redstateblues (Reply #28)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:23 PM

30. No shame

Because he has no shame. Trump attacks dead people. Do you think he cares? The elections and the campaign stage is what he wants the most.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redstateblues (Reply #28)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:32 PM

31. i feel the opposite may happen. house dems were given a mandate in the 2018 election.

if they don't move on at least an inquiry dem voter turn out will be hurt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kurt V. (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:55 PM

32. Concur

Its all a bunch of politics... will the heard in all dem circles.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread