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Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:30 AM

IMPEACHMENT WHEN


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Arrow 102 replies Author Time Post
Reply IMPEACHMENT WHEN (Original post)
Blue_Tires Apr 15 OP
DontBooVote Apr 15 #1
watoos Apr 15 #3
DontBooVote Apr 15 #5
DownriverDem Apr 15 #19
lindysalsagal Apr 15 #22
ehrnst Apr 15 #25
Traildogbob Apr 15 #29
ehrnst Apr 15 #30
Traildogbob Apr 15 #33
DontBooVote Apr 15 #35
58Sunliner Apr 15 #37
DontBooVote Apr 15 #39
58Sunliner Apr 15 #48
ehrnst Apr 15 #88
mtnsnake Apr 15 #100
ehrnst Apr 15 #38
Traildogbob Apr 15 #47
ehrnst Apr 15 #49
uponit7771 Apr 15 #67
ehrnst Apr 15 #69
uponit7771 Apr 15 #70
ehrnst Apr 15 #75
uponit7771 Apr 15 #79
ehrnst Apr 15 #82
uponit7771 Apr 15 #91
ehrnst Apr 15 #99
Traildogbob Apr 15 #40
uponit7771 Apr 15 #58
ehrnst Apr 15 #71
uponit7771 Apr 15 #73
ehrnst Apr 15 #78
uponit7771 Apr 15 #84
ehrnst Apr 15 #86
uponit7771 Apr 15 #89
ehrnst Apr 15 #95
uponit7771 Apr 15 #96
ehrnst Apr 15 #98
Bettie Apr 15 #85
ehrnst Apr 15 #94
uponit7771 Apr 15 #97
Bettie Apr 15 #101
ehrnst Apr 16 #102
uponit7771 Apr 15 #57
myohmy2 Apr 15 #87
KPN Apr 15 #10
ehrnst Apr 15 #31
ehrnst Apr 15 #16
58Sunliner Apr 15 #42
uponit7771 Apr 15 #56
ehrnst Apr 15 #32
uponit7771 Apr 15 #55
watoos Apr 15 #2
DontBooVote Apr 15 #4
watoos Apr 15 #6
DontBooVote Apr 15 #7
uponit7771 Apr 15 #62
Bettie Apr 15 #66
uponit7771 Apr 15 #72
Bettie Apr 15 #74
uponit7771 Apr 15 #76
Bettie Apr 15 #80
uponit7771 Apr 15 #81
Bettie Apr 15 #83
ehrnst Apr 15 #20
mr_lebowski Apr 15 #51
uponit7771 Apr 15 #63
mac56 Apr 15 #43
DontBooVote Apr 15 #45
uponit7771 Apr 15 #64
smirkymonkey Apr 15 #9
Fiendish Thingy Apr 15 #13
ehrnst Apr 15 #24
uponit7771 Apr 15 #65
Fiendish Thingy Apr 15 #77
uponit7771 Apr 15 #92
Grasswire2 Apr 15 #8
KPN Apr 15 #11
ehrnst Apr 15 #18
KPN Apr 15 #34
Fiendish Thingy Apr 15 #12
ehrnst Apr 15 #17
Fiendish Thingy Apr 15 #21
ehrnst Apr 15 #27
DontBooVote Apr 15 #36
mac56 Apr 15 #41
DontBooVote Apr 15 #44
mac56 Apr 15 #50
DontBooVote Apr 15 #52
mac56 Apr 15 #53
DontBooVote Apr 15 #54
uponit7771 Apr 15 #60
Fiendish Thingy Apr 15 #61
uponit7771 Apr 15 #68
uponit7771 Apr 15 #59
ehrnst Apr 15 #14
BamaRefugee Apr 15 #15
poli-junkie Apr 15 #23
SHRED Apr 15 #26
ehrnst Apr 15 #28
58Sunliner Apr 15 #46
bluestarone Apr 15 #90
uponit7771 Apr 15 #93

Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:47 AM

1. How could impeachment possibly correct this problem?

My off-the-cuff take:

Impeachment proceedings reveal money laundering through NRA by RNC. McConnell's involvement in receiving foreign money for his campaign is revealed, along with lots more repugs involvement. The revelation, in front of the entire nation on live TV, results in a devastating repug loss in 2020. With Dems in control of the White House, the House, and Senate, President Obama's sanctions are restored and Mr. Oleg Oligarch is no longer allowed to partner in the U.S.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:50 AM

3. Praise the Lord,

I found someone else who hasn't fallen for the right wing talking point that impeachment will fire up Trump's base.

Let's do it. I'm sick and tired of the right controlling the narrative.

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Response to watoos (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:52 AM

5. Nice to have your support, and you have mine. Some here are steadfastly against impeachment...

Curious!

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Response to watoos (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:23 PM

19. Not enough time

Nixon investigations which led to his resignation took place after he won his second term. The House then through their investigations ended up with the American people and repubs on their side. The current House investigations that lead to impeachment are going on now. The House Dems are getting their ducks in a row. By the time that happens, it will be too late to impeach trump prior to the November Election of 2020. Am I happy about this? No!!!! But that's reality though.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:26 PM

22. But the start of it and the determination, alone will disrupt the gop plans and their voters

IMPEACH!!!!!

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Response to lindysalsagal (Reply #22)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:28 PM

25. Or it rallies DT's fans. (nt)

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #25)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:42 PM

29. Fire up his base?

Burning black churches, bombing Mulims places of worship, running over libs in cars, sending bombs to libruls, white man terrorism fires up his base. So we just step aside out of fear of his terroristic base. No thanks. I took an oath and served during Vietnam era, joined. Again no thanks, I lost fear back then and will stand and fight again, as if life depends on it. Cause' it does damnit.

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #29)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:46 PM

30. When the Senate refuses to remove him, he gets to say to his base that he was

"completely exonerated," and he will say their support is what did it. That will fire them up for 2020.

That's not "fear" of his base, that's "understanding" his base, from simple observation.

No amount of all caps 'WE ARE GOING TO GO IN THERE AND KICK HIS ASS IF WE IMPEACH!!!" will change that. I may make people here feel a bit less overwhelmed by a situation that they aren't in control of, but that's about it.

Is that clearer?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #30)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:58 PM

33. So cower, right.

His freakin base is 35%. There are 65% of us that will be just as fired up when the impeachment hearings, televised, expose all the corruption and treason to a point of making damn sure we all vote and fight for that right to vote. Sure would have been much easier to cower in the jungles and not fight to live while being killed by a smaller group of thugs. I had no right to vote during that era of war, but damn sure could die for "Freedom, MurKKKa". I choose to fight and I am damned "fired up" enough to fight any knuckle dragging ass wipe that follows this bullshit GOP. You do you.

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:00 PM

35. That poster is working their ass off trying to discourage all talk and opinions of impeachment.

Curious to me.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #35)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:04 PM

37. I have seen several people posting, in more than one thread, discouraging people.

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Response to 58Sunliner (Reply #37)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:06 PM

39. I was excited that Pelosi was elected speaker but never did I think she'd

take impeachment off the table again.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #39)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:22 PM

48. I hear ya. I am tired of supporting lesser evils.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #35)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:31 PM

88. Facts are facts, and that gets in the way of some people's rage.

It may be curious to you, but not to those of us without an agenda here.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #35)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 04:11 PM

100. Curious to me as well. nt

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:05 PM

38. False dilemma. Impeach or "cower."

I choose to fight and I am damned "fired up" enough to fight any knuckle dragging ass wipe that follows this bullshit GOP.


Sounds like you've really given this some thoughtful consideration, and done some research on what Dems are doing and what it in their constitutional ability to do.

His freakin base is 35%.


His freakin base has the WH and the Senate (by the balls). The Senate will not remove him, so his base will be be all "THEY CAME AT HIM AND HE JUST SWATTED THEM OFF and HE DID IT FOR US!!!"

And we will have handed that victory to the enemy on a silver platter. So to speak.

Other investigations can come up with the same evidence of corruption, without getting his base as fired up for 2020 as you would be watching impeachment proceedings. It's not cowering - it's called strategy, and not being cannon fodder. Is being thrown that kind of red meat really that necessary for Democrats to vote against him in 2020?

You do you.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #38)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:18 PM

47. I agree

I have no delusions impeachment will ever happen under his corrupt regime, but the hearings WILL have to be public and the Mueller report and tax returns have to be exposed along with much more. These clowns will fight to show anything, but this is one lawfull way to have everyone see exactly how corrupt the whole KKKlan is. His base is currently seeing the scam in the amount they owe in taxes. I respect your stance, and the facts you present. No circle firing squads. Let's do what must be done for justice to be enforced, whoever it fires up.

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #47)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:28 PM

49. Circular firing squads are just what I think will happen with

impeachment without hard evidence and without the Senate willing to remove him.

If we announce Impeachment with the Senate willing to remove him, that might be enough to get him to resign. He'll say that "the Democrats are going to make it impossible for me to lead, they hate me so much, so I'm going to let Pence handle things from here on out." Then SDNY has him for lunch.

Impeachment without the Senate is pointless, and guaranteed loss when hearings can be held without impeachment - as we saw with the Cohen testimony.

There is this false perception that only IMPEACHMENT can get evidence, when you really need evidence in order to impeach.

Public hearings can be held without impeachment - but I don't think that his base - which holds the GOP Senate by the balls - will be convinced of anything about him that will make them think they have ever wrong about him.

DT got elected by condoning and glorifying their brand of hate, their white fragility, their fear of no longer being the focus of modern culture. They won't give that up.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #49)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:47 PM

67. Need to impeach to get the hard evidence

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #67)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:55 PM

69. That makes no sense. Where did you hear that? You need evidence to impeach.

Can you please tell me who was impeached to get evidence on Michael Cohen?

Was Cohen's testimony an impeachment proceeding?

Do you not know that there is this thing called the judicial branch of the Government, that on occasion, investigates crimes?

Ever heard of Robert Mueller?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #69)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:58 PM

70. We already have hard evidence, Red Don asking Russia to help him on camera is enough to win...

The 2016 elections is enough

You already know this.

We don't need ... CRIMINAL ...evidence seeing impeachment isn't a criminal process.

We can start impeachment on what we already have to get criminal evidence.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #70)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:12 PM

75. So, what is your definition of "hard evidence?"

When was discovery done on this "hard evidence" you talk about?

Because it certainly wasn't done prior to when Dems took congress, and that's only been 3 months total - not counting the shut down.

We don't need ... CRIMINAL ...evidence seeing impeachment isn't a criminal process.


Actually, yes according to the constitution, you need evidence of one or more of the following CRIMES: Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. Otherwise, the GOP would have impeached Obama the DAY they took back Congress for "falsifying identification to run for POTUS." Many were "CONVINCED" like yourself that there was hard evidence of this.

We can start impeachment on what we already have to get criminal evidence.


Because you say so? You seem to have some less than reliable sources of information on this topic. Again.... you don't need to impeach to get criminal evidence. Did Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort get "impeached?"

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #75)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:18 PM

79. What's already in the public sphere, we've already talked about this. There doesn't need to be ...

... discovery for a political process alone.

We already know Red Don asked the Russians to help him on live TV, for example, and that's all that's needed.

You know this ... we've already gone through "Criminal" vs "political"


Actually, yes according to the constitution, you need evidence of one or more of the following CRIMES: Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. Otherwise, the GOP would have impeached Obama the DAY they took back Congress for "falsifying identification to run for POTUS." Many were "CONVINCED" like yourself that there was hard evidence of this.


This is false on its face and you know better

The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, and tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for nonofficials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office.


Why post false tripe here?

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #79)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:22 PM

82. AGAIN, there needs to be discovery to get evidence for a crime...

And it's clearly made you very unhappy to have been schooled on this.

My posts aren't the "tripe" on this thread.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #82)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:38 PM

91. In a criminal proceeding yes, but you know that impeachment isn't a criminal proceeding so why bring

... this up!?

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #91)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 04:03 PM

99. You keep jerking back and forth in an attempt to make it sound like

I'm jerking back and forth in the opposite direction.

You'll make yourself carsick doing that.



You are so angry right now, you're getting mixed up about what has actually been said here.

But continue with your ominous threat of "bookmarking." You might understand some of my posts on a second reading.

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:09 PM

40. My appoligies

No disrespect, I am just sick of this BS. It is time "WE" get Fired Up. If we are afraid of his base "Getting Fired Up", have ya seen his Klan rallies. I lost many friends and fellow soldiers fighting for our democracy, many times for completely unrelated reasons, like cash for Cheney, cause we had to. I for one will not be threatened into doing nothing and dishonor all that died for this country and true freedom. We are under attack, this time on our on Homefront, from GOPutin.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #30)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:34 PM

58. Then don't move for conviction or removal, use impeachment to stop the stone walling and

... bring the light.

Now it looks like 50% of the Mueller report will be redacted

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #58)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:01 PM

71. What are you even talking about?

Then don't move for conviction or removal, use impeachment to stop the stone walling and
View profile... bring the light.


That sentence makes no sense.

Mueller can be subpoenead by Congress about the report without impeaching DT, even if the report is 100% redacted.

Where in the world are you getting this stuff?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #71)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:03 PM

73. Your obfuscation by daftness, its tiring and I've seen it before. You like to act like you don't ...

.. understand plain English to distract from answering simple questions or addressing simple statements.

I'm thinking you're bout the only one of a couple of people who don't understand what I posted.

To address your overt condescension at face value I'm not just talking about Mueller and his statements ... that's not all of what congress needs on a multitude of subjects.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #73)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:15 PM

78. No, your "feelings" aren't facts, and you're getting frustrated when I counter with facts or

ask you to clarify your muddled, angry posts.

I'm not the daft one here, I'm talking reason and logic, which isn't something you seem to want to hear.

You want validation for your anger at Democratic leaders, which isn't based in a firm understanding of what is and isn't "hard evidence" or even what "impeachment" involves.

What is "obtuse" about this statement?

"Mueller can be subpoenead by Congress about the report without impeaching DT, even if the report is 100% redacted."

Other than it refutes your case that impeachment is the ONLY WAY we are going to get anything other than a 50% redacted report...





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Response to ehrnst (Reply #78)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:25 PM

84. I mentioned no feelings, more distraction and my post was clear it's you who narrowed it to ...

... what Mueller would report in another attempt at distraction via strawman.

I don't want or need your anything,

I have facts

FACT: Congress needs more than Mueller report to bring things about Red Don to light under articles of impeachment that can be raised.


Either way

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #84)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:29 PM

86. Clearly you need something from me...

because you keep on replying, and getting angry when I school you.

Yes, the language in your posts are very emotional on the topic. For instance this post:

FACT: Congress needs more than Mueller report to bring things about Red Don to light under articles of impeachment that can be raised.


isn't rebutting anything I said. If you had been calm when you read my post, you would have understood it. Here it is again:

Mueller can be subpoenead by Congress about the report without impeaching DT, even if the report is 100% redacted.


Is that clearer?

You're welcome.


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #86)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:34 PM

89. Nah, I'm validating the poster who claimed you have an agenda by ... showing your agenda ... and the

... fact you keep going with that overt strawman of narrowing my statement about what congress can use impeachment for to Mueller when I never even mentioned Mueller.

Then you fallaciously posted this ...

Actually, yes according to the constitution, you need evidence of one or more of the following CRIMES:



Knowing damn well it isn't true in order to start an impeachment process.

There are already articles of impeachment that have been brought up against Red Don

You're not slick and no thank you

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #89)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:53 PM

95. I really hit a nerve, didn't I?

Your obvious need for a response from me that you are not getting is sad.

You're not slick and no thank you


Never claimed to be slick, but if you calm down before reading and responding, you might have learned that along with some other things.

Nah, I'm validating the poster who claimed you have an agenda by ... showing your agenda ... and the... fact you keep going with that overt strawman of narrowing my statement about what congress can use impeachment for to Mueller when I never even mentioned Mueller.


Read that sentence to yourself out loud. Then ask yourself, "Would this really make any sense to anyone but me?"

It's a rant. It's an angry rant, not a cogent response or argument. You're not going to get the validation for your anger at Democratic leaders you seek by ranting.

Sorry, not my job.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #95)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:56 PM

96. I am going to get people to notice who's using fallacious arguments to forward an agenda and

... some bookmarks to go along with it.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #96)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 04:00 PM

98. That sounds like you think that's a threat.

If "fallacious arguments to forward an agenda" were banned, would you have lasted this long?

My "agenda" in this thread is calling out where Democratic leaders are being bashed for no logical reason, using facts. That apparently has gotten some hackles up.

But do proceed.

Let me know how it goes.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #30)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:28 PM

85. So, the only answer is to

simply push the deadlines farther and farther down the road while meekly accepting that they will continue to commit crimes and hope that they let us vote in 2020.

Got it.

Oh and his base is already crowing that he's been found 100% innocent. In fact, my right wing brother and his friends are gloating about how Democrats would be impeaching him if there was anything there, but since he's been found entirely innocent, they can't do anything.

Winning, right? That's what this is? I didn't know winning would feel so much like being kicked over and over again.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #85)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:47 PM

94. What deadlines are you talking about?

imply push the deadlines farther and farther down the road while meekly accepting that they will continue to commit crimes and hope that they let us vote in 2020.


I have no idea where you found that strawman/false dilemma, but you are attacking it hard.

Winning, right? That's what this is? I didn't know winning would feel so much like being kicked over and over again.


So, you think that you are owed a feeling of "winning" and people who talk facts about impeaching right now are complicit with your feeling of "being kicked over and over again?"



You're mad at Democratic leaders because we have a GOP led Senate and a madman in the WH, and the Democratic congress that has been there less than four months hasn't FIXED IT YET SO THAT YOU CAN START FEELING LIKE WE ARE WINNING NOW, so you think that they are "meekly accepting" all this?

It sucks to see the limitations on what you can and other people control. Someone tells you that it could all be OVER with one simple solution really sounds GREAT!! Then someone comes along and tells you it's not so simple, so you get mad at the messenger.

That's not my problem, and if being told that no, there isn't just a simple solution makes you feel like you are 'being kicked over and over again" you may not want to continue posting on a board where you're going to hear facts.

I suggest that you use the "ignore" feature to protect you from reading things that might cause you more distress.






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Response to Bettie (Reply #85)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:57 PM

97. +1, " hope that they let us vote in 2020. " or hope the Russians wont interfere in 2020 like they

... did in 2016 !!

The arguments against impeachment make no sense and the people proffering them are using fallacious positions to do so including the Clinton impeachment; Red Don will never be as popular to dems as Clinton was to reps.

Oh, BTW some posters are going to distract on this subject by indicating your statements make no sense when they do ... pm for examples.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #97)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 04:48 PM

101. You are right about one thing

there are some people who really seem weirdly opposed to anything that might shake stuff up.

And the personal attacks have begun. Oh noes! Someone disagrees!

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Response to Bettie (Reply #101)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:42 AM

102. IKR?

Anyone who dares suggest something different in this thread is suspect.....

There will be NO dissent!!



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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #29)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:33 PM

57. +1, yeah ... all 37% of them ... Red Don got less votes than rMoney !!!

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Response to watoos (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:30 PM

87. +1

...I'm with you guys...we're long past time for impeachment...

...what does trump actually have to do to deserve impeachment, physically murder someone on TV?

...slimy republicans seem to control the narrative whether they're in power or out of power...

...why is that?

...

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:40 AM

10. Yup. Time to engage the enemy.

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Response to KPN (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:50 PM

31. Putting it in military terms makes it sound so much more KICK ASS

but no more realistic.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:19 PM

16. So, that can't be revealed any other way? In any other investigations, or hearings?

Can you explain why?

The revelation, in front of the entire nation on live TV, results in a devastating repug loss in 2020.


Because you think that only a guaranteed losing gambit to remove him from office will defeat him and not "exonerate him" to his fans?



Which Senate seats are up for re-election in 2020 again? Remind me, will you? You seem to have the stats at your fingertips.

With Dems in control of the White House, the House, and Senate, President Obama's sanctions are restored and Mr. Oleg Oligarch is no longer allowed to partner in the U.S.


Then you must be pretty unhappy with Justice Dems wanting to primary Dem congressional seats all over the country in 2020.

Right?


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Response to ehrnst (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:10 PM

42. I'll tell you what a losing gambit it-a demoralized base.

"Can you explain why? " Easy to ask the questions, but I bet you don't have a single answer besides your rhetoric, which is dismissive and disruptive. Let me add a face emoji for you so you can see how much disdain I have.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:32 PM

56. No, not without the power to put those who are holding the documents in jail. That's what impeachmen

... would bring.

See what 6 months in lock up will do for those who think Red Don is worth it.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:51 PM

32. No answer?

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:31 PM

55. This !! We can impeach and not convict or remove !!!

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:48 AM

2. Trump is a dictator,

He doesn't release his taxes, he launders money, he cheats on his taxes, he ignores subpoenas, he gets out of testifying before Mueller. He took foreign money meant for his inauguration. His foundation was shut down because it just laundered money and was a personal slush fund. He makes money in violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

He is enabled by Republicans who, why not, get a piece of the action, get foreign money, rig elections, are bought off by lobbyists, enable Trump to avoid obeying the law because they don't obey the law. They have become the right arm of the dictator.

We are left with lady justice to preserve our rule of law, but McConnell is packing the courts with fascist judges who will preserve the dictatorship that we have.

I am waiting on Democrats to get really mad at all of this. We lost Al Franken in the Senate, and Democrats are bashing several freshman House members as being too vocal, too out of control.

It's f**king past time for subpoenas, we know that the redacted Mueller report will be a sham, subpoena all of the crooks that are enabling Trump. Hey, how about bringing back impeachment? I know it's Easter week so I will say, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, even Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, let's get cracking. Impeachment will rile up Trump's base, so what, impeachment will rile up me and my fellow Democrats.

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Response to watoos (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:51 AM

4. Some people here are earnestly (lol) discouraging impeachment based on a lack of imagination

in regards to what impeachment could reveal. And how such revelations could bode in our favor in 2020.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:08 AM

6. Impeachment would be grounds,

for Barr to release the unredacted grand jury information, Barr said so himself at his hearing. Going the route we are going we will never see the real Mueller report until after the election, Republicans will tie it up in court.

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Response to watoos (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:09 AM

7. Exactly!

.

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Response to watoos (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:40 PM

62. *********THIS !!! **************

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Response to watoos (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:45 PM

66. And if the ruling goes against them

they will simply decline to release it anyway.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #66)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:01 PM

72. The person who decides not to release can then go to jail for OoJ of the impeachment process...

... just like the person who wont release Red Don's taxes.

OoJ charges can be brought up on the individuals and they're not going to give up their freedom for stupid ass.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #72)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:10 PM

74. The AG

can decline to have those charges brought.

You think he will allow anyone to be charged?

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Response to Bettie (Reply #74)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:13 PM

76. Impeach Barr too, republicans would do it in a split second. At the least those people would be ...

.... arrested and Americans can see Barr not bringing charges and that would be the evidence needed to impeach him.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #76)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:19 PM

80. I'd love to see that

but, I don't think our House leadership has the will to do it.

They can talk a good game, but when push comes to shove, they don't seem to want to actually do what very clearly needs to be done.

People keep saying impeachment will lose us the election. I very much fear that doing nothing will be the losing proposition.

People also keep asking "why the doom and gloom"...look around, what is there to feel optimistic about?

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Response to Bettie (Reply #80)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:21 PM

81. "has the will" is what we the people can bring them. 80% of Americans and a majority of republicans

... want to see the Mueller report.

There are now reports that 50% of the report will be redacted, that's the will of the people being thwarted ...

We should bring the will to those in power.

Right now I agree with you and its deflating at best to watch them wring their hands on what happened 20 years ago while ignoring the fact that Clinton was popular with republicans and Red Don will never be popular with democrats

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #81)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:24 PM

83. It is extremely deflating.

and frustrating.

I honestly don't even think congress will see 50% of the report. Maybe 20%.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:24 PM

20. Imagination runs wild here, doesn't it?

Tell me, will there be mosquitoes anymore after "IMPEACHMENT!!!!"

I mean, if you know of a way that will convince Trump supporters not support him anymore after he beats an impeachment attempt, you must have access to knowledge that none other has.

I mean REALLY, we're already what, 3 months into having control of Congress, and he's not GONE YET? That's not NEARLY enough testosterone in that there timeline!




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Response to ehrnst (Reply #20)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:51 PM

51. IF Dems could present a HIGHLY compelling case during impeachment proceedings that Trump SHOULD BE

removed from office, and the Senate Pukes refuse to do so, even though there's basically universal agreement aside from Trumpist die-hards among the population?

Then I believe Dems could conceivably get a BIG WIN out of impeachment proceedings ... even if Trump isn't actually removed.

It's no guarantee that a failure to remove by the GOP Senators ends up being a loser for Democrats come 2020. Depends entirely on how good a case they end up being able to make, along with how that gets covered by the Media.

It'd be a huge risk, and I could see arguing that it's not really worth it, but the fatalistic idea that there's no way impeachment could help Democrats in 2020 UNLESS Trump is removed by his Senate GOP lackeys ... I tend to reject. And I also think the case can be made that House Democrats are Constitutionally Obliged to impeach, just based on what is publicly known.

I think Boo feels the same way.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #51)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:42 PM

63. THANK YOU !!! Let the people see the KGOP keep the crooked president in office and let them pay ...

... with votes.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:12 PM

43. Lack of imagination. Yeah, that must be it.

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Response to mac56 (Reply #43)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:14 PM

45. That's two of you working your asses off to discourage any discussion and opinions regarding

impeachment. And doing so in a most condescending and personally insulting way.

Curiouser and curiouser.


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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #45)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:43 PM

64. +1, and doing such with opaque positions, condescension and fallacious arguments

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Response to watoos (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:28 AM

9. +1000



I am beyond sick of this shit. It's time to show them we won't let them get away with it anymore.

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Response to watoos (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:49 AM

13. Criminal referrals and impeachment for Mnuchin and Barr

Don’t waste time waiting for the courts- use the full powers of the house to defend the rule of law.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:28 PM

24. Um... impeachment isn't a criminal proceeding. It's a political proceeding.

We'd need a special prosecutor to investigate criminal activity by the AG and Mnunchin.

Any ideas on who that might be?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:45 PM

65. Then don't make it criminal, just impeach them because they're disregarding the rule of law and Barr

... is parroting winger talking points about the dept he leads without proof (his own words)

Bout that simple, they obfuscate we impeach ... period.

what say you?

tia

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:14 PM

77. You misunderstand me

1) Congress can make criminal referrals to DOJ when they have reasonable suspicion a crime has been committed (refusal to release Trumps taxes)

2) if Barr refuses to indict Mnuchin and Rettig for breaking the law, then Congress can move to impeach all three of them for obstruction and abuse of power

No need to involve the courts and the delays that would entail; Congress should flex the maximum muscle of their powers

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #77)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:43 PM

92. **** THIS !!!! ***** We know republicans would do it to democrats in a split second !!

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:25 AM

8. filing articles of impeachment allows Congress access to all the evidence.

And rapid dissemination of the evidence to the American people will create a groundswell of disgust necessary to affect the 2020 election.

It is a critical mistake to wait for "math" and "bipartisanship".

First, bipartisanship is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Second our chances at "math" -- flipping the Senate -- increase exponentially if the people are fully informed NOW.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:44 AM

11. ITMF Now!!!

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Stop playing things safe all the frigging time. While we play it safe, they pillage and destroy democracy, the Constitution, and our future.

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Response to KPN (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:22 PM

18. Who is the "we" playing it safe "all the frigging time?" Speak for yourself. (nt)

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:58 PM

34. I am. I'm speaking my opinion. You can too.

But argue with you further about it I won’t.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:47 AM

12. FUCK "the math"

The Constitution can’t wait until 2020!

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #12)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:21 PM

17. Watergate took two years. It's 2019. Do the math.... (nt)

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:26 PM

21. What is the math for how long the Constitution will survive?

It’s been almost two years since the Meuller investigation- congress should move aggressively to protect the Constitution, hold the obstructionists accountable.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #21)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:36 PM

27. So, you aren't doing the math. OK.

I guess saying "FUCK THE MATH" is the response for when you are really, really mad, and really don't like what the math says....



So, other than IMPEACH NOW!! what exactly is it that you think that, less than three months after getting congress back, is doable "right now!!!" that isn't being done?

I can't seem to get any answer than ALL CAPS IMPEACH NOW DAMMNIT!!! FUCK THE MATH!!!

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:03 PM

36. 100% minus 35% equals 65%, otherwise known as "The Math". Your diligence in your attemps to

discourage any talk or opinions favoring impeachment are duly noted, and curious to boot.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:10 PM

41. The only one I see "discouraging talk" here

is you, sport.

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Response to mac56 (Reply #41)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:12 PM

44. Sport? Who the fuck do you think you are??

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #44)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:46 PM

50. You're offended by "sport"?!

The fainting couch is right over there.

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Response to mac56 (Reply #50)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:53 PM

52. Please do not refer to me as "sport" or anything else besides my username. I am

not your "sport" and I have said nor called you anything disrespectful to deserve such an insulting tone.

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Response to DontBooVote (Reply #52)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:17 PM

53. I'll do better than that.

'Byeeeeeee.

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Response to mac56 (Reply #53)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:17 PM

54. OH, thank god! Bye!!!!!

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Response to mac56 (Reply #41)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:39 PM

60. You're not seeing the overtly fallacious arguments used by the "no impeachment" crowd either...

... seeing it's not based on many facts.

Then you link facts to them and they act like they don't see them.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:40 PM

61. I reject the assertion that we are helpless to defend the Constitution until the election

I have never said “IMPEACH NOW!”, as in, file articles of impeachment and move to a full House hearing and vote, now.

What I have consistently advocated for is aggressive, relentless investigations, subpoenas, etc. By Congress with the ultimate goal of creating a convincing (of the American public), undeniable, irrefutable case to proceed to filing articles of impeachment.

Convincing the American public (minus 25-30% die hard Trumpers) will be key in shifting “the math” in the Senate, just as happened in Watergate.

The suggestion that “our only option is to vote them out” is ludicrous and irresponsible. The Democratic controlled Congress has tremendous power, and I expect them to use it to its maximum.

That’s why, In the past week or so, I have been quite vocal about advocating for Congressnto take aggressive action; in particular, around the stonewalling around providing Trumps tax returns. This refusal is a clear violation of law, and Congress should not waste time going through the courts- they should make criminal referral for Mnuchin and Rettig to DOJ; if, as expected, Barr refuses to prosecute, then Congress must initiate impeachment hearings against Barr, Mnuchin and Rettig.

If in the course of these hearings, it becomes clear that the stonewalling and obstruction involved the direction or participation of Trump, that would be evidence for an article of impeachment against the president. The media coverage of this process would exert tremendous pressure on the GOP senators- would it be enough to change “the math”? That is not clear, but to throw up one’s hands and say “we’ll just have to vote them out” when the rule of law is quickly eroding day by day is the height of spineless defeatism, not pragmatism.

If Congress moves aggressively, again, not waiting for things to play out in the courts, it’s not inconceivable (and I do know the meaning of that word) that the tide in public sentiment could turn by late summer/early fall.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #61)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:48 PM

68. +1, Putin will back his guy this time too .. no reason to wait for that to happen !!

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:36 PM

59. The ... INVESTIGATION ... took 2 years the Mueller report is in and they're stonewalling it

... and now there's reporting we'll only see 50% of it.

Fuck that, impeachment = throw people in jail if they're going to stone wall... period.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:13 PM

14. We've had the House for less than three months. And we don't have bi-partisan support. (nt)

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:17 PM

15. YAWN. There will just be more letters of demand couched in gentlemanly 18th Century English

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:26 PM

23. ITMFA!

When Trump’s atty. Barr releases the covered up Mueller Report on Thursday, then Pelosi should declare that the House will begin impeachment hearings on multiple fronts: Barr, Mnuchin, IRS, Deripaska/Kentucky aluminum/McConnell, etc. corruption. Time to saturate the media market with exposing the Repuke-Trump criminal empire! Just exposing the bastards will be a much-needed jolt to saving what’s left of our democracy.

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Response to poli-junkie (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:30 PM

26. THIS

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Response to poli-junkie (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 12:39 PM

28. "Impeachment hearings on multiple fronts"

So, you think that Dems should start impeachment hearings on:
-Barr
-Mnunchin
-IRS - who exactly in the IRS would be impeached?
-McConnell

And the gathering the hard evidence for all of these separate impeachments would take - how long?

The Senate won't remove McConnell, and his constituents know what he is, and elect him anyway.

And what's to stop DT from asking Barr and Mnunchin to just "resign" and replace them with a clone, rendering the work done to impeach them moot?

And who would take over the other investigations going on currently - not to mention legislating?

But yelling it in all caps sure does make it sound like we could KICK SOME ASS, DUDE!!!

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:18 PM

46. Agreed. Apparently some people here are truly freaked out /angry etc... about this topic.

Why would someone want to shut down a discussion on what should be valid considerations of the options to try to prevent further erosion of our country? If I did not know any better, and I don't, .....

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:36 PM

90. Before i decide which way would be the right way. I would like to know more of the process

If the House decides to impeach, i'm under the impression that the House will have FULL access to any and ALL information they request? Someone has to FULLY explain if THIS is true or not. I mean the tRUMP taxes AND Mueller report, AND subpoena of ANYONE they choose? People here need to be fully informed i feel!! I'm leaning toward impeachment IF the answer to ALL the above questions are YES.If the answer is NO then i question it. We really do have to make an informed decision! Seems like words are thrown around, confusing the WHOLE situation. NOTHING we do will change his BASES minds so i give a rat fuck what impeachment will do to those assholes. I'm completely FOR impeachment IF the HOUSE gets FULL access to the INFO they need to get forward to the rest of the public! If we have subpoena power USE IT!!!

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #90)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:46 PM

93. Yes, your impression is true with the power to impeach and bring up charges for OoJ of impeachment

... process.

So individuals who don't to not follow the law and hang with Red Don can at the minimum get arrested and if Barr doesn't want to bring charges impeach him too for OoJ.

Also, in regards to Clinton impeachment not working out for republicans.

The "no impeachment crowd" keeps leaving out Clinton was way more popular with republicans than Red Don is with indies and democrats right now.

Even if Red Don isn't removed I don't see his poll numbers with democrats going anywhere ... Red Don will never be as popular with democrats was Clinton was with republicans.

There's little chance of that

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