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Thu Mar 28, 2019, 07:57 PM

I'm Old, on Social Security, and Just Finished Doing My Taxes

As a Social Security recipient for more than 10 years, I have consistently had the same withholding amount, and I have always received a Federal Tax refund of approximately $1,000. This year, however, under the "wonderful" new Trump/Republcan tax "reform" act, my taxes increased by $780, and my refund dropped to $220. My brother says I "got Trumped." A euphemism for "got screwed."

I don't know if my tax filing experience, and the intense decrease in my refund, is typical, but even if only half of us older people are going through this taxation BS, I can confidently predict that a hell of a lot of old people will definitely NOT vote Republican in 2020.

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Reply I'm Old, on Social Security, and Just Finished Doing My Taxes (Original post)
IndianaDave Mar 2019 OP
Wellstone ruled Mar 2019 #1
Kaleva Mar 2019 #2
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #4
Kaleva Mar 2019 #9
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #14
ArizonaLib Mar 2019 #93
doc03 Mar 2019 #101
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2019 #107
doc03 Mar 2019 #117
Lady_Chat Mar 2019 #48
Kaleva Mar 2019 #61
Grins Mar 2019 #66
Kaleva Mar 2019 #70
WhiteTara Mar 2019 #88
Kaleva Mar 2019 #119
WhiteTara Mar 2019 #120
ThingsGottaChange Mar 2019 #34
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2019 #108
TheCowsCameHome Mar 2019 #3
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #5
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2019 #29
TheCowsCameHome Mar 2019 #67
politicaljunkie41910 Mar 2019 #54
watoos Mar 2019 #6
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #10
KT2000 Mar 2019 #20
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2019 #32
watoos Mar 2019 #37
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2019 #59
stopwastingmymoney Mar 2019 #68
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2019 #77
True Blue American Mar 2019 #51
Dave Starsky Mar 2019 #56
KT2000 Mar 2019 #69
DBoon Mar 2019 #76
doc03 Mar 2019 #102
Chin music Mar 2019 #7
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #11
sinkingfeeling Mar 2019 #8
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #12
still_one Mar 2019 #13
Lady_Chat Mar 2019 #49
still_one Mar 2019 #62
JayhawkSD Mar 2019 #92
still_one Mar 2019 #95
JayhawkSD Mar 2019 #96
still_one Mar 2019 #98
JayhawkSD Mar 2019 #99
still_one Mar 2019 #100
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2019 #110
PatSeg Mar 2019 #15
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #16
PatSeg Mar 2019 #18
ThingsGottaChange Mar 2019 #39
PatSeg Mar 2019 #65
myohmy2 Mar 2019 #17
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #19
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2019 #33
ThingsGottaChange Mar 2019 #40
SoCalDem Mar 2019 #50
Rebl2 Mar 2019 #73
DeminPennswoods Mar 2019 #103
OhNo-Really Mar 2019 #36
watoos Mar 2019 #42
OhNo-Really Mar 2019 #43
Rebl2 Mar 2019 #74
former9thward Mar 2019 #21
not fooled Mar 2019 #35
former9thward Mar 2019 #83
dumbcat Mar 2019 #89
MichMan Mar 2019 #91
watoos Mar 2019 #44
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #105
former9thward Mar 2019 #115
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #116
JDC Mar 2019 #22
cstanleytech Mar 2019 #23
Dixc Mar 2019 #38
Farmer-Rick Mar 2019 #24
brandnewday2009 Mar 2019 #25
TheFarseer Mar 2019 #26
IndianaDave Mar 2019 #106
at140 Mar 2019 #27
at140 Mar 2019 #28
watoos Mar 2019 #45
at140 Mar 2019 #86
Codeine Mar 2019 #30
BlueFlorida Mar 2019 #31
PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2019 #41
watoos Mar 2019 #46
PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2019 #47
True Blue American Mar 2019 #52
Rollo Mar 2019 #53
DFW Mar 2019 #55
JT45242 Mar 2019 #57
Vinca Mar 2019 #58
inwiththenew Mar 2019 #60
ooky Mar 2019 #63
efhmc Mar 2019 #64
mwooldri Mar 2019 #71
MichMan Mar 2019 #84
The Mouth Mar 2019 #72
krkaufman Mar 2019 #75
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2019 #112
brewens Mar 2019 #78
NNadir Mar 2019 #79
Sherman A1 Mar 2019 #80
Honeycombe8 Mar 2019 #81
Tom Rinaldo Mar 2019 #82
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2019 #109
TexasBushwhacker Mar 2019 #111
The Mouth Mar 2019 #113
MichMan Mar 2019 #85
Ford_Prefect Mar 2019 #87
tiptonic Mar 2019 #90
gapaddy Mar 2019 #94
ecstatic Mar 2019 #97
iamateacher Mar 2019 #104
czarjak Mar 2019 #114
itsrobert Mar 2019 #118

Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:07 PM

1. Well Wooby,you aren't alone,

most just one of about 12 million. I was paying attention all along,and knew what was coming and golly gee whiz,it did go down as I expected.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:12 PM

2. I'm on SSDI and I haven't had to pay state or federal income tax in years.

This year is no exception.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:18 PM

4. That's exactly the way it should be. I'm happy for you, Kaleva!

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Response to IndianaDave (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:21 PM

9. From the state I'm getting back 50% of what I paid in property tax

and I'm getting a home heating credit of $580 too.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:40 PM

14. I haven't done my state taxes yet, but I ALWAYS owe deep red Indiana hundreds of dollars.

I would be amazed if this year is different.

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Response to IndianaDave (Reply #14)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 09:48 AM

93. If I am correct, prior to Reagan-Bush

Soc Sec wasn't taxable and full time students were exempt from paying federal income tax.

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Response to ArizonaLib (Reply #93)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 04:15 PM

101. Well actually Reagan started taxing up to

50% of SS and Clinton raised it to 85%. It is means
testing.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #101)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 06:49 PM

107. Yes, but the means testing isn't adjusted for inflation

The threshold for 50% taxation is $25 K of total income, just like it was in 1986, $34K for a married couple. So if you have tax deferred income plus your SS over $25K, you'll owe tax on your 401K income AND on your SS. The 85% threshold is $34K for singles and $44K for couples. This is a BIG reason why some older couples opt to shack up rather than get married.

If they'd indexed it for inflation, the limit for singles would be $56K.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #107)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 10:01 AM

117. I know that has been a pet peave of mine for

years. Every time I have brought it up here I get flamed by
certain people. They think if you worked hard and saved or are lucky enough to get a pension you deserve to have your SS taxed.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 12:39 AM

48. My state had a cap put on our SALT deductions

like many other Blue States, we lost the ability to deduct a great deal of our property taxes . It has been a nightmare for us. We usually don't pay, but this year, we have to pay....big time.

I'm curious what state do you live in?

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Response to Lady_Chat (Reply #48)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 08:41 AM

61. Michigan

Being low income, I get a little over 15k a year from SSDI, I qualify for a refund on part of my property tax.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 11:54 AM

66. According to the Reich-wing set that makes you "a taker!"

No taxes? Refunds? Assistance with your utility bills? That makes you one of the infamous 47%!! ďReal AmericansĒ should despise you.

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Response to Grins (Reply #66)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 01:23 PM

70. Fuck 'em! I'm a disabled vet.

The small pension I get from the VA is non-taxable.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 06:57 PM

88. What state are you in?

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #88)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 06:22 PM

119. Michigan

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #119)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 07:02 PM

120. I'm in Arkansas

and we get nothing like that.
Happy Spring!

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:30 PM

34. Me neither!

My yearly income of less than 15,000 doesn't require it. Worked about 40 years to boot. Oh, life is swell.

edit: how does one get refunds if they're on SS or SSDI? Do y'all have pensions and stuff, too? Like a house?

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Response to ThingsGottaChange (Reply #34)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 06:55 PM

108. I'm on SSDI

If my little part time job doesn't pay too much I can get earned income credit, but since I'm 1099, that gets eaten up in self-employment tax.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:13 PM

3. Just had our taxes done, preparer told us

her clients (about 1600 of them) range from livid to tearful.

Trump has really worked us over.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:19 PM

5. Yes - After spending hours working on completing my taxes, it was disheartening.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:17 PM

29. What state?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 12:05 PM

67. Massachusetts.

Her clients are by and large bummed out.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:44 AM

54. Hopefully the majority of them are all MAGAs who voted for Trump.

Trump knew when he passed his Tax Bill that the vast majority of the benefit was going to the wealthy. In fact they spent the most time on maximizing the amount they could get away with taking from the lower income folks, so that they could meet the promises that they had made to the wealthy folks. I kid you not. I read an article that said that exactly. I'm pretty sure I probably read the article here on DU.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:19 PM

6. I am on SS so I control my withholding

 

I made 3k less income last year and my taxable income was 6k less than last year, my tax was 900 dollars less and I got back 600 dollars more.
I do my own taxes by paper, Hope I didnít make a mistake.
The firm that runs my pension cut back on my withholding without telling me.

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Response to watoos (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:25 PM

10. I do my own taxes as well. Previously, my withholding had always been adequate.

But this year, I have to admit that I'm disappointed.

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Response to watoos (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 09:22 PM

20. Republicans change the withholding table

trump did it and Reagan did it too. That is so it looks like you got a tax cut but you really owe more at the end of the year.

IRS makes the withholding tables. When R's are in office it is a good idea to withhold additional per paycheck. Fill out W-4 and write the additional amount you want withheld.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:24 PM

32. Ok ..someone here posted about this a while back. They

Had an in with IRS and said Trump did NOT change the tables so refunds would look bigger since rates went down

My husband works with a lot of time card employees. He said no one ever mentioned noticing more in their pay. You would have thought it would be a casual topic of discussion.." hey, I got $50 more in my pay". Nothing

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:38 PM

37. That's not what happened to me.

 

Trump took out less federal tax. I am on SS so I control my withholding there. I get money from a 401k that I also control the withholding. I also get a pension, the firm that runs my pension changed my withholding, it deducted less than what I had set up.

So when I hear that Trump cut back on people's federal withholdings I believe it. I also recall that you couldn't get a W-4 form to take out more.

What Trump did was give people more money in their weekly pay and he took it from their refunds.

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Response to watoos (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 07:54 AM

59. I believe you. Just think it was odd that I never

heard a single person commenting on "my bigger paycheck". Nor did I hear President Braggard telling anyone to "Look what I did for you!"

Perhaps for the average worker it was of little impact. And with fewer people itemizing, the withholding brackets match tax liability better. IOW, No big swing, so no hoopla. Unless you live in a state with state income tax and who cares about those blue people.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #59)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 12:24 PM

68. You mention time card employees above

I think part of it is that for hourly workers, their paycheck is different every time. And in general, no one is checking their percentage of income withheld, most people don't understand that.

I definitely saw a change with salaried people and many adjusted their withholding higher to compensate.

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Response to stopwastingmymoney (Reply #68)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:44 PM

77. Great point. Thanks .makes sense

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:01 AM

51. Bush gave a $300

Loan that had to be paid back in April.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #51)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 03:29 AM

56. I remember that bullshit.

It was obvious what he was doing at the time, and still the Republican idiots ate it up.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #51)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 01:08 PM

69. that's right

they do know how to con the people

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #51)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:44 PM

76. We signed ours over directly to Planned Parenthood

As an FU to Bush

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 04:21 PM

102. Exactly they cut my withholding and ended up

paying over $300 but my taxes did go down about $700.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:19 PM

7. Sorry. That's a lot of money on SS.

I really mean that. It's hard enough without donating to trumps tariffs etc.

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Response to Chin music (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:25 PM

11. Thank you for your understanding and kindness.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:21 PM

8. Still waiting on my CPA to finish. I have to file 3 sets of taxes this year due

to inherited trusts. Couldn't begin my personal taxes until other 2 were done. It is the first time in my life, 71, and I started filing taxes in my teens, that I haven't done my own.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:27 PM

12. I'm 77, and have always done my own, too.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:31 PM

13. In California and large blue state with high property tax and SIT for those who itemize

they insured they would pay more as punitive for not voting for the AH in the WH

Property Tax plus SIT limited to 10K. Home equity interest for kids education eliminated, so you lose several thousand it itemized deductions which means many wonít be able to itemize therefore those in that category lose any charitable deduction, plus with the elimination of the personal exemption a good number of folks in that category will find they may be paying several thousand more in taxes

but the good news is that corporations get 20% cut off any profits, which will go to buy stock back or corporate bonus

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Response to still_one (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 12:57 AM

49. Same happened to us, SALT Capped, limited our deductions

on property tax, , Home Equity, etc. Trump wanted to punish Blue States and he did. We are paying for his tax cuts to the 1%. This really hit us hard this year, never expected it could be this bad, but it is.

I am so fed up. States like ours pay a great deal into the Federal government, and get so much less back, while some Red states don't even pay into the Federal government and get back so much more. Drives me nuts when they complain about "taxes" and how "they are paying" for people who get "welfare", always bragging how they want to be independent of the government, then they take with both hands. They don't have a clue do they?

I wish the Blue States would get together, and start demanding all states should pay an equal amount to the Federal government. It's not fair that our states should carry the burden.

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Response to Lady_Chat (Reply #49)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 09:10 AM

62. Everything he has done has been to hurt people. He is a very despicable person

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Response to still_one (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 09:20 AM

92. On SS and taxes were less than expected.

 

Paid no California income tax and received $580 of our estimated tax payments back as refund. Anecdotal evidence does not establish much in the way of evidence. Tax policy on Social Security may have changed. My experience proves precisely nothing.

One person says he "has an in with the IRS" and that "Trump did not cut withholding." He does not speak untruth, sort of anyway, in that Trump indeed did not cut withholding. But the IRS did, so if people didn't notice bigger paychecks the problem was with their ability to notice, not with their paychecks.

Anyway, you cannot deduce tax policy from what one person paid in taxes.

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #92)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 10:53 AM

95. You are incorrect. For those who used to itemize deductions they find the cannot now in many cases

because they limit the tax deduction on property tax plus SIT to 10K

If you bought a while ago you might be ok within the 10K limit

otherwise, odds are good you are paying more than 10K for property taxes, and you are not allowed any more than 10k

If you have been using a home equity loan for education or anything other than home improvement you cannot deductions the interest any more. That can amount to several thousand loss in itemized deduction. Add to that the removal of the personal exemption, plus if you used to itemize, the loss of several those several thousand in deductions will put people under the limit of the standard deduction, and as a result lose the tax deductible charity deduction

This is not anecdotal. The criteria I setup was very specific. Blue states that have high property tax plus SIT, and equity loan not used for home improvement who used to itemize deductions will be most vulnerable to this. They will lose several thousand in itemized deductions and take the std deduction plus the loss of the personal exemption, odds are good those in that category will be paying more taxes

Since California doesnít conform to federal guidelines, folks in that category can still itemize in California state

The conditions I stated affect a lot of folks

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Response to still_one (Reply #95)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 11:06 AM

96. My mistake.

 

In the future I will only comment when I can agree with you entirely. My tax return apparently proves a great deal that I was too stupid to realize it proved, so I withdraw my suggestion that it proved nothing.

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #96)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 12:05 PM

98. I don't know your tax situation, or what you pay for property tax, SIT, or if you have any home

home equity line of credit, and it is none of my business, and my comment sure wasn't meant to be taken personally against you, and I apologize if it came across that way.

Actually, I agree with your analysis, but I was referring to a specific subset of people that would most likely be adversely affected by this

1. If someone itemized deductions in 2017, lives in a high SIT/property tax state, they are limited to a 10K deduction in 2018.
2. If someone has an equity loan that wasn't used for home improvement, they cannot deduct the interest anymore.
3. Add the elimination of the personal exemption loss to those in that category, and the odds are they will be paying more taxes

Technically, and I don't know how many people realize this, if people refinanced their primary mortgage years ago, and took extra money out for education, or other use, the interest on that extra money taken out is no longer deductible either, and they need to separate that out from their primary mortgage interest.

Those who are not in that category, or who have a very profitable business, are not going to be impacted.

The biggest benefit of the new tax law will be corporations and profitable businesses, where they can take 20% off the profits.

The best way to determine how much the tax law benefits one person is to compare the tax liability in 2017 and compare it to 2018.

As you implied, getting back a refund or owing is not a measure if one is benefitting or not from the new tax law. It is comparing the tax liability from the previous year to the same year, and calculating the tax both the old way and the new way.

As you stated, what one withholds is not a good criteria to use whether one is paying more taxes or not



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Response to still_one (Reply #98)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 03:53 PM

99. Despite my assertion of always agreeing with you...

 

I will stand by the correctness of the statement, which you assert is incorrect, that, "Anyway, you cannot deduce tax policy from what one person paid in taxes."

Even if you "compare the tax liability in 2017 and compare it to 2018," (which is actually sort of incoherent) the result for one individual does not prove much about overall policy.

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #99)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 04:08 PM

100. Perhaps, but if you take the numbers from 2017, and plug them in for 2018 with the new tax law

I donít see why that wouldnít tell you if the new tax law is beneficial to you or not

Effectively that is what I did last year, and determined that because of the new tax law it would cost me 4K more, so I insured my estimated tax accounted for that, and ended up getting back around 450 from them feds for overpayment, and paying the state about 75 dollars which iOS even

Regardless, I will give some thought to what you are saying

Thanks

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Response to still_one (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 07:07 PM

110. And several Congressional districts in CA flipped to blue

So it ended up biting the GOP in the ass.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:44 PM

15. I've heard more stories like yours

than I can count. Really drastic differences in people's tax refunds, many having to pay the IRS when they were expecting a refund.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 08:51 PM

16. I can easily believe that.

And, you know, I don't mind paying taxes to support our infrastructure, our security, and to take care of people in need. That's the reason for the existence of government. But to give obscene amounts of money to people who don't need it? Crazy! Idiotic. We just absolutely have to reverse this in 2020.

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Response to IndianaDave (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 09:07 PM

18. Yes

The fact that so many average Americans have to pay more in taxes, so that the super wealthy can get a tax cut is obscene. It was all such an in-your-face con job.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:38 PM

39. I guess that's one bright spot

with being at the poverty level. Don't have to give any taxes to the super rich!

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Response to ThingsGottaChange (Reply #39)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 10:34 AM

65. I suppose there is always a bright spot!

Things have to get really bad for a lot of people, much like in the 1930s, in order for voters to demand real and dramatic change. This is where we are headed right now. When people can no longer afford food, shelter, or healthcare, their politics will become much more pragmatic. We may have some of the richest people in the world, but we are hardly the richest country in the world.

Comfortable complacent people are not inclined to rock the boat, but today we are running out of comfortable complacent people and so many of them have nothing to lose anymore.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 09:01 PM

17. same here...

...9 years into SS and this years refund is less than half of past refunds...

...and trump keeps jacking up the deductibles and co-pays on Medicare too...they give you a COLA increase and then take it all back and then some...Medicare is being turned into just another shitty private insurance...

...we've all been 'trumped'...just look for the fantastic republican Obamacare replacement that doesn't exist...republicans will kill you if they get a chance...they are not us...

...they are inherently evil...seriously evil

...don't let it get you down, hang in there...do you want to get even?

...live to be 100...

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 09:10 PM

19. I agree -- They are evil.

It's frustrating as hell. I don't know if I can make it to 100, but I'm convinced that we have to get behind our presidential nominee, and elect Democratic candidates everywhere. No "purity" tests. No exceptions. We need to elect Democrats!

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:29 PM

33. True. Ignorance I guess but only found out recently

that Medicare wasn't free. Bet most Americans think that.. since they aren't receiving it . Not free plus you have to buy a supplemental plan to cover extra.


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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:40 PM

40. Another plus

My SS is so pitiful the state pays my Medicare premium. So many benefits.....

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #33)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 01:13 AM

50. My SS was 680 a month

after take outs of 104 for medicare and 125 for medicare advantage.. wheeee !

My husband died and I now get his but of course, mine is gone..My housing expenses did not change with his death
I am frugal so I manage, but because the income dropped, I am now in a class called "not required to file"...

good... don't owe taxes
bad...officially poor

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #33)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:26 PM

73. You don't

have to buy a supplement if you donít want to. I know my parents aarp supplement pays what isnít covered by Medicare. My parents plan though is one of the more expensive plans. Guess they have several to choose. I do think you are right that most people donít realize you have to pay for Medicare part B and if you get part D you pay for that as well. Part A you donít pay for-yet.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #33)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 04:22 PM

103. Part A is free, assuming you worked and have paid

the FICA/Medicare tax, but Part B has a co-pay of roughly 25% of the total program cost (gov't picks up the rest). Part D (drugs) also has a co-pay.

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:36 PM

36. I agree. Medicare is not what I want for all. Glad someone else admits Medicare is crap.

I have to have physical therapy 3 times a week for several weeks to regain strength hopefully.

My co-pay is $40 each visit or $120 a week, $480 a month just for the therapy, doc visits are extra. 50+ years paid into Medicare and the copays are ridiculous!

What percentage of people living on just social security can afford to get needed physical therapy at $40 a pop?

No, Medicare for All is not the answer.

Free health care & meds for all is the only answer.

Let the government & providers duke it out.

We can dream

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Response to OhNo-Really (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:49 PM

42. Republicans have been trying to gut medicare for a long time.

 

People aren't told that they are being screwed. When they passed the Sequester back in 2013 which continues until 2022 I think, every year since 2013 2% is deducted from reimbursements to Medicare doctors. They are gutting Medicare.

Here is a statistic that should scare the shit out of everyone, the Life expectancy in the U.S. has fallen for 3 years in a row. That is unheard of. Our for profit health care plus we don't insure everyone, plus we don't ban Roundup and insecticides and GMO's like other countries do.

Everything is going according to plan for the super rich, their depopulation plan is working great in America.

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Response to watoos (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 11:02 PM

43. One plan is to siphon off our childrens inheritance via health care/nursing homes, real estate taxes

I have already decided death over expensive life expanding medical treatment. And, trust me, I lived this life large! Had a blast. Kids are doing great. Everyday a gift.

The educated debt slaves need whatever help our earlier death can provide them.

Also happy the GOP base is aging out sooner.

I refuse to play that game.

We can control our level of cooperation.

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Response to watoos (Reply #42)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:32 PM

74. They have been trying to get rid

of it from the beginning in the Ď60ís. They hate it. Most seniors like it though. If you can afford a supplement, all the better. Many people donít realize Medicare doesnít pay for everything. Thatís why you see all those ads on TV for supplemental insurance for those on Medicare.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 09:29 PM

21. The law changed the withholding.

Unfortunately these posts never give what the income is or other factors so the math can be done. No one on a SS income is paying more taxes than last year including you. Give us the figures.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:31 PM

35. This calculator will do a side-by-side comparison

tax scam vs. pre-scam

[link:http://taxplancalculator.com/|]



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Response to not fooled (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 03:49 PM

83. Unfortunately no one making these claims will give their income figures.

So calculators are useless without figures.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #83)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 07:22 PM

89. I just ran that calculator

and it was pretty close. It said I would pay $1,736 less in tax under the Trump plan.

When I calculated this earlier, going back and running this year's numbers through turbotax with last year's tax brackets, I saved $1701 in taxes this year under the new plan.

I'm one of those that didn't have high SALT deductions, just the standard deduction, so I came out way ahead.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #83)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 07:38 AM

91. Calculator was pretty close

My taxes went down by $2700 compared to last year which was a little more than the calculator indicated. Got $1700 of it back throughout the year with reduced holding and then had to write a check for $1000 less than I usually do when I file.

Married with no dependents and taking the standard deduction. Haven't itemized for many years, so this tax plan was very favorable to us. Pretty happy with it right now.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 11:03 PM

44. I agree with you.

 

I am on SS and I control my withholding. The firm that runs my pension deducted less federal withholding without my asking them to which affected my refund a little. I also get money from a 401k that my withholding stayed the same. My wife makes a tiny bit of income.

Comparing 2017 with 2018;

I made 3k less in 2018 than 2017.
My taxable income was 6k less in 2018 than in 2017.
My tax was 400 dollars less in 2018
My refund was 600 dollars more this year.

I made out because it's just the wife and I and since we are older we got 26,600 for our standard deduction which offset losing the exemptions.

People who are on SS should not have been affected much by Trump's tax scam as other people who were still working were, or depending how many kids you have.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #21)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 06:17 PM

105. My withholding did decrease. I received $15 more per month in my Pension income.

So, my income increased by $180 in 2018. Whoopee! I don't believe that I need to share my entire financial situation here. I did my taxes exactly the same way as last year, using the same worksheets in the 1040 Instructions, and I stand behind the facts in my post. I absolutely paid more taxes this year than last year, and the figures in my post are precise and accurate.

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Response to IndianaDave (Reply #105)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 09:22 PM

115. Yes, you do not believe in sharing your "entire financial situation"

But you claim you are paying more taxes without anyone able to check your figures. I know taxes and I know the tax law. People on SS are not paying more

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Response to former9thward (Reply #115)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 10:07 PM

116. Well, I'm not trying to challenge your qualifications. I just know that my taxes did increase.

I'm not trying to be obstinate. But -- unless I made some error in my calculations, which is unlikely, since I checked them twice -- I'm paying many hundreds of dollars more in taxes this year (with the $180 increase in income) than I did last year. That's reality. Please don't take it personally.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 09:38 PM

22. You are not alone.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 09:42 PM

23. I will feel no sorrow for any Repugnant that gets Trumped and in fact I would be tempted to

pop open a bottle of champagne each time it happened to one of them if I could afford it and if I actually drank alcohol.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:38 PM

38. thanks for the grin!

I am saving a bottle of champagne for impeachment...I don't actually drink, either, by the way....

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 09:53 PM

24. It's the elimination of the personal exemption that hurt me

I usually get about $1,500 back. I only got $500 back this time. We got Social Security and a pension. I just figured my missing $1,000 was my contribution to Bill Gates $1.5 million in tax relief. I hope he chokes on it.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)


Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:02 PM

26. If it's any of my business

What made the difference?

I paid about 3k more but I had a little more income and took money out of an HSA after changing jobs so it kind of made sense, but I definitely donít feel like I benefited from the tax cuts.

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Response to TheFarseer (Reply #26)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 06:28 PM

106. I received an extra $15 per month from decreased withholding on my Pension

That increased my annual income by only $180. I stand behind the figures in my post. They are precise and accurate.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:03 PM

27. I know people who have bigger tax withheld than required

and get big refunds. I am the opposite. I do not believe in giving IRS interest free loans.
The bigger amount I have to send in on April 15th, the happier I am. Because it means
IRS gave ME an interest free loan through the year.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:04 PM

28. I am 78 and on social security, my taxes went down this year...

and I don't count my taxes based on refunds. Taxes and refunds are not equivalent.

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Response to at140 (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 11:12 PM

45. I'm 71 and wife is 70,

 

our taxes also went down. We did make 3k less last year but we got 26,600 standard deduction which was more than if we had exemptions plus the old standard deduction.

Some people with kids, more exemptions, may have fared better under the old system.

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Response to watoos (Reply #45)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 05:15 PM

86. you are a nice example of tax rate in 2018 compared to 2017

Since I have always taken the standard deduction, the much larger standard deduction of $13,300 was larger in 2018 than 2017 and that was good help to lower my federal income tax.

I can not believe there are people who look at their refund amount to decide taxes were higher or lower.
My daughter had 2 jobs in 2018, one of them for some reason did not withhold any federal tax! So now she has to pay tax due on April 15th. I explained to her she got a interest free loan from IRS during 2018, and she benefited from the few pennies in interest she earned which she would have lost if she was getting a refund.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:19 PM

30. Your taxes did not increase.

Your withholding decreased so you contributed less during the year. A smaller return is good ó it means you had access to your money over the course of the year rather than loaning it to the government interest-free.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:20 PM

31. Sadly

 

Some republicans think of Trump as the White man's last stand to maintain power and privilege. They are willing to sacrifice for it. However, most sane people not energized by guns or abortion may indeed not vote for the republicans.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 10:46 PM

41. I wound up owing some state income tax.

In my case, I'd expected something like that, as I started taking income from two annuities back in December. From one we'd had 10% withheld for federal taxes, on the other, nothing. Turns out I'm getting about $200 from federal, but owe about $500 for state income tax. Darn, but I can afford it. I've now started withholding from that second annuity in the amount of $50/month which should more than cover the state income tax.

I really cannot complain. I'm the rare retired person whose income has actually gone up recently because of a change in my SS (switched from collecting as a divorced spouse to collecting on my own account, resulting in about $500/month more.) And then I turned on two annuities, which resulting in about another $500/month. Lucky me. Most retirees see no increase ever in their income.

My total income is somewhat modest, but the essential point is that I can live on it and even continue to save money to pay for things like a future trip, or unexpected expenses.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 11:14 PM

46. Move to Pa.

 

it doesn't tax investment income or pensions.

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Response to watoos (Reply #46)

Thu Mar 28, 2019, 11:46 PM

47. Thank you, but no.

I live in New Mexico, where I have some 400 days of sunshine a year.

My very best friend in the whole world lives in PA, a bit outside Pittsburgh. He grew up there and is content to stay. I wish I could persuade him to move here instead, but he has tons and tons of relatives there, so I understand why he doesn't want to relocate.

Meanwhile a few hundred dollars a year for taxes does not outweigh what I love about living here.

Perhaps this is the best part. This is a culture that honors older people, especially mothers. While I am not remotely Hispanic in appearance, I constantly get treated well because I look like mom, or more likely grandma to young people. I actually have to pay attention and not take advantage. It happened again this evening. I was waiting in line at a local brew pub to buy a beer, and the 20 something year old in front of me waved me ahead. I said Thank you, and bought my beer.

This happens all the time. It even extends to traffic stops. Like anyone, I occasionally don't honor a stop sign as I should or drive somewhat above the posted limit. In the nearly 11 years I've lived in this state I've never gotten a ticket. The cops take one look at me and think Mom, Grandma, and only give me a warning. It's pretty amazing to me.

And when I'm in other states I notice the difference. Young people don't wave me ahead of them. Cops give me tickets.

Why should I ever leave this state?

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #47)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:11 AM

52. I live in Ohio

And get the same treatment.

I love the seasons, the green,open spaces.

People are the same all over.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:38 AM

53. A few points about withholding and higher std deduction to remember...

Most employers used the new withholding tables for 2018 pay, and that was reflected in less taxes withheld, which in turn means lower refunds at end of year. Lower refunds do not necessarily mean higher taxation.

However, one thing to remember: while the federal std deduction may have increased about $2,000 (12,000 std for 2018 vs. 4k + 6k = 10k for 2017), most STATE std deductions did NOT increase. Thus a number of people who no longer itemize for Fed may find they are paying higher state taxes if they take the state standard deduction. For lowest taxes, it might require taking the std deduction for federal and itemizing for state, if your tax software allows it.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:55 AM

55. I don't know how some of you people manage back in the USA. My hat goes off to all that struggle

Last edited Fri Mar 29, 2019, 03:36 AM - Edit history (1)

My situation is a total mess, too, but for other reasons. I am 67 but not retired. German residence and US based employer, so an effective tax rate of 50% in Germany with zero health insurance or pension. I have a Roth IRA, so I paid the taxes in advance ten years ago. The Germans want to ignore the double taxation treaty and tax the whole thing AGAIN, so 39.6% to the USA and another 50% to Germany. I had envisioned being able to keep more than 10.4% for my retirement.

I withhold in the USA and get most of it back, since my German taxes are higher than what I would pay in the USA. Property taxes are not deductible here in Germany, but there are no state income taxes, and I own no property in the States.

I have not yet started to take Social Security from the USA, as I don't yet need it, but with the cost of living here in Germany plus the $34,000 a year in health insurance they quoted me (and that was 8 years ago!) if I want health insurance here, I'll probably need it at some point. My wife's pension of Ä850 a month doesn't exactly go very far.

I wish you all the best of luck. We need a LOT of GOTV next year, and I can tell you the Democrats Abroad here in Europe are VERY active in doing our part! There are about 6 million Americans living overseas, and about 5,999,700 of us are NOT tax refugees living on yachts off of Monaco or the Cayman Islands.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 06:09 AM

57. Also got trumped

We are thoroughly middle class with wife who works part time and two kids. (Less than $100k) combined.

We normally get about $2000 back. This year we bought a new to us van. But thanks to the cap on SALT, we only got back $75. We would have owed if we didn't donate substantially to charity including a ton of charity miles.

My wife's boss asked the Republican BIG LIE "but didn't you have a lot less withheld, so you got the money up front?"

I had $10 less withheld per paycheck. So $260 up front to get hosed for 2 grand. Seems, I got shafted. While a friend who owns a ton of rental properties got about a $100,000 smaller tax bill.

Middle class and screwed. The target of the tax increase so that millionaires and corporations can get free money.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 07:05 AM

58. The numbers for Trumps re-election are tanking so I'm betting a whole lot of people got Trumped.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 08:18 AM

60. Refund isn't the best indicator of your taxes

What was your effective tax rate both years? Also how much in dollar amounts did you pay each year.

The reason why I say a refund isn't the best indicator is let say your Federal tax obligation is $15k for both 2017 and 2018. In 2017 you paid $17k throughout the year from withholding on your paycheck through work. In 2018 they only withheld $16k. In both years your actual tax obligation was $15k. In 2017 you would have overpaid by $2k and in 2018 you would have overpaid by $1k. Your refund went down but your taxes were the same.

That is an oversimplification and there are other factors that could increase or decrease your tax obligation based on the law but I wouldn't just look at what you got back and use that to gauge whether your taxes went up or down. I'm speaking in general terms here not directly to OP.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 09:53 AM

63. I have yet to see or hear any Trump voter say the new tax law wasn't beneficial for them.

How is that possible? When everybody else is saying pretty much the opposite, meaning they either paid more, or paid a little less, or there was not much impact either way. The only conclusion that can be made from this observation is that they are so dug in they are now knowingly lying to themselves, rather than have to say or admit anything bad about him. As incredible as that seems, that is what we are fighting now. Truth does not matter to these people, even when the lies are negatively affecting their own existence. That's a pretty powerful force to have to contend with in such a large segment of our population.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 10:19 AM

64. I'm pretty sure this was President BO's doing.

They will still vote for agent orange.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 01:40 PM

71. Old law deductions (standard for family of 4) : $29,600.

New law deductions: $24,000.

This is using personal exemptions and standard deduction for last year, and the standard deduction for this year (no more personal exemptions).

We made more money last year than the year before, so we did end up paying less tax pro-rata, but the decreased paycheck deduction meant we received a smaller refund than we thought we would.

One hand giveth, the other hand taketh away....

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Response to mwooldri (Reply #71)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 04:19 PM

84. Isn't there an additional deduction or credit for each child?

Dont have kids so not 100% sure

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 01:52 PM

72. i always aim to get as little back as possible

Every dollar you 'get back' is a dollar you lent to the government at zero interest. Withholding with the intent of getting money back is a really bad way of saving, far better to adjust your withholding to the best approximation of what you will actually owe.

I'd rather get rid of withholding entirely and write a check at the end of the year, at least I'd get the interest.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:32 PM

75. Feel your taxes are high?

Sure, and the GOP will use it to push another tax cut for the rich. Lather, rinse, repeat.

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Response to krkaufman (Reply #75)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 07:13 PM

112. True

Just heard a multi-millionaire friend of a friend complaining his property taxes are $10K a month. Of course, he lives in a $4 Million home and in Houston, that's a lot of house.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:50 PM

78. What about that ten percent tax cut we were promised before the election last

November? Are you telling us that wasn't true?

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 02:51 PM

79. My Trump tax increase for funding billionaires was $3,500.

I expected worse.

Next year, my accountant said, I'll be paying over $6000 to fund government subsidized drunken orgies for Trump donors at Mar-a-Lardo.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 03:16 PM

80. Mine was okay

but, less than last year.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 03:23 PM

81. I wonder why. Is your property tax really high?

You gained I think $2k in exemption. If you itemize, or take the standard deduction, rates went down 2% a the next to lowest level. However, the very bottom level...the one where people in poverty don't have to pay income taxes....that now has a small tax. So their taxes were raised.

Mine change every year, so I won't know until I compare the percentages of taxes paid to various kinds of income.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 03:30 PM

82. The tax cut was "crafted" to mostly hurt tax payers in some Blue States

The only tax payer anger that matters to Trump will be from people living in competitive states that he counts on to win the electoral college in 2020. He has no problem screwing people who don't vote for him or those too "loyal" to be upset with him for screwing them over. Think Arizona, Texas, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia and the Mid West. If people are paying more taxes there that may hurt Trump. He could not care less about what happens to people in New York and California.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #82)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 06:59 PM

109. Texas is a high property tax state

So some wealthier Repubs may take a hit. I don't see them flipping to a Dem though. If Texas goes blue it will be because of changing demographics and increased voter participation.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #82)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 07:10 PM

111. But no large state is 100% blue or red

GOP members of Congress in those states could be vulnerable to losing support from upper middle class voters who lost deductions.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #82)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 08:03 PM

113. And the fact that state taxes will now HURT

will help anti-tax Republicans. If suddenly you can't deduct your California State and Property taxes, you will be pissed, and the Republican candidate promising to lower those taxes will have an issue that they wouldn't otherwise.

t least that is how I see the long term strategy of the tax "cuts".

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 04:25 PM

85. Mine went down a decent amount

Same income as last year. Taxes were $2700 less than last year. Got $1700 of it during the year in reduced withholding and the remaining $1000 reduction in what I still had to pay. Normally pay $1600 every year and only $660 this time.

I'm personally pretty pleased with the changes

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 06:14 PM

87. I think we are well past the time to rise up and burn the GOP to the ground

along with their enabler Dinos. Those who excuse them have not paid enough attention to the damage they have done.

If you aren't mad about this yet you're watching too much MSM or you still believe the party hacks and political professionals who counsel modest change because that's all we can hope for.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Fri Mar 29, 2019, 07:49 PM

90. In half

My refund was cut in half and we had more deductions. I wonder what comrade Benedict donald got back.

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 10:01 AM

94. older than you and...

 

Having retired early, I've been collecting social security for 32 years now, preparing my own return each year.

I always make sure I owe the IRS a small amount of money each year.

It puzzles me as to why youn would chosse the IRS as your non interest bearing savings account

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 11:29 AM

97. But will they attribute the increase to trump, or will trump con

them into believing democrats are the cause?

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 05:02 PM

104. Yep

Our taxes went up

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Sat Mar 30, 2019, 08:27 PM

114. Got back $1,200.00 last year, paying $200.00 this year...

Thanks Pauly!

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Response to IndianaDave (Original post)

Sun Mar 31, 2019, 05:40 PM

118. I didn't change my withholdings

Taxes went up bigtime and I got hit with a penalty for not withholding enough.

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