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Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:12 AM

Trump in comparison to Jim Jones - NPD and what we need to realize.

It has been common in twitter space to see people comparing Trump cultists to Jim Jones followers, however I think this is an apt comparison and one that has some very dire and dark warnings for people.
Just finished reading the book Seductive Poison by Deborah Layton who was a former member of the People's Temple. This was a could not put down book about how everyday people were drawn in and controlled by Jim Jones and an inside look at how his members were treated.

Please also see Jim Jones and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) by Gary Maynard: https://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=29416

I would like to provide some quotes from this article.

"The first characteristic of narcissism is having a grandiose sense of self-importance, Jones clearly used his talents of speaking and preaching to show and display to others his superiority and self-importance. He told Hue Fortson and others in the group, “If you see me as your savior, I will be your savior. If you see me as your God, then I’ll be your God” (The Life and Death of Peoples Temple, PBS)."

False Front:
He was charismatic, friendly, supportive, and seemed to have “divine” powers to heal the body and soul. But then slowly the truth became more and more apparent – the beatings, the theft of money, the paranoia, the drug use, rape, emotional abuse, and virtual imprisonment in Jonestown made it clear to many who Jim Jones really was or was becoming (The Life and Death of Peoples Temple, PBS).

Feeling they are special:"This characteristic can lead the narcissist to categorize the people in their life in a highly delineated manner, by grouping them into worthy and unworthy people. "

"Clearly, Jones did not believe that the rules and laws of society applied to him. This is apparent from the various accounts of his rape of women in the group, his abuse of drugs and alcohol – while simultaneously telling his congregation that these things were wrong – and his use of physical and emotional techniques to control and humiliate his followers. "

"The sixth characteristic of a narcissist – exploiting and abusing others in order to achieve their goals or satisfy their need for power – is indicative of a sociopathic or pathological narcissist."

"The seventh characteristic of a narcissist is a severe lack of empathy for the feelings, concerns and predicament of others"
"Luckily for the United States, it is very difficult for a singular narcissist to seize absolute power."

Does any of this start to sound familiar as it relates to Trump? Further it is a very interesting comparing people from all walks of life who were the supporters of Jim Jones and the Republican party and his minority base.

I just want to ask this question. 909 people died in the Jonestown massacre. Jim himself did not force the poison down people's throats it was his followers who did so, and also his followers who shot and killed the people who refused. Some of them in later recounting have stated if they had known of his deceptions they could have done something. And they were many who were armed but they were brainwashed into distrusting each other and believed they would be imprisoned, tortured and killed if they left the temple so they lived in fear of everyone else, all "Others" including each other. Again - sound familiar? His followers mixed the poison, killed their own children, and shot those who refused it. They themselves were abused, beaten and starved.

How did this happen? The unthinkable? Especially when former members warned that it would happen?

This is not a point that should be used to belittle people who are Trump supporters or even Trump himself.
I think the comparison is far more dangerous and should be taken seriously because Trump will follow the same playbook and history points out how this all ends time and time again.

I am going to hope that there are people in our government and security agencies that see this clearly and are acting accordingly. It could explain some of the reluctance of not immediately removing and impeaching Trump. Look what happened in Guyana when the congressional investigation was sent. Also he will not leave willingly. He will want to take everyone down with him.






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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:40 AM

1. Yes... there are frightening similarities. I think there are those in Congress who have been warned

(remember the group of psychiatrists who briefed a number of Congressional Reps on their assessments about 18 months ago)?

Either directly or indirectly, I think this is driving Pelosi's approach to the impeachment questions. What she has said thus far is exactly how you would want to handle a dangerous narcissist.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:50 AM

4. Pelosi is smart and wise. She knows what she's dealing with and how to handle it. One concern I have

is, I often wonder how many in congress are somewhat the same as Trump and support him all the way no matter what he does. Surely the GOP is in love with him and seemingly does not give a damn what he does. Trump exhibits the same characteristics in some ways as many republicans IMO.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 02:18 PM

16. I certainly hope so!

We see this of course in the news although it is brief. It doesn't have the same appeal as what the next juicy scandal is all about and so I think it can be more easily bypassed. Jonestown happened but as the years go by, many simply think of the meme and not the real implications to our entire country's safety of having someone with NPD in the office of President and what he will do if he thinks there is no way out of a failed reputation. I don't think Jim Jones if he had not been shot and had attempted to escape would have ever really lived to see justice. I am interested in any successful interventions being performed once there are that many people involved. In this case it is an entire country!

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:40 AM

2. Sounds pretty familiar ... sadly the Jonetown followers were mostly idyllic liberal types

And he was a hippy-type like Manson in his peace & love original approach to them, from what I've read.

I also usually mention this when Jonestown comes up ... did you know our own Jackie Speier was one of the people shot by Jones' people at the airport? She almost died in a pool of her own blood on the runway trying to flee to a plane. She was gunned down at the same time Ryan was ... he was not so lucky.

Fascinating article about it here:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/11/10/jonestown-massacre-first-person-speier-ryan-jones-222222

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 12:04 PM

13. Jackie Speier was shot FIVE times!

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 12:38 PM

14. Yup ... she's amazingly humble about it, I knew of her for many years before I had any idea that had

happened to her there. Never heard of her 'playing it up' or anything like that, although it's possible I just didn't hear of it.

It's a bit of a miracle she survived to later serve her country as she has. A lot of people would've been far too traumatized.

She is one special person.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 02:02 PM

15. Thank you

I did not realize this. I point this this event because it is very recent in our collective minds. I am amazed at the bravery of those who were able to escape as well as those who were shot and those that lost their family.

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:45 AM

3. K&Fuckin'R

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:51 AM

5. Well said!!! n/t

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:58 AM

6. You beat me to it. I read the Maynard article on the internet a few days ago.

We must be thinking the same thing about Trump. What happens when you corner a Narcissist and destroy his life? It's scary.

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:48 AM

7. K&R

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:48 AM

8. Definitely bookmarking this.

GOOD stuff. Relevant, too.

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 11:01 AM

9. The last paragraph is what I've been saying for a long time. One can only hope. Great post.

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 11:06 AM

10. History is littered with these cult leaders. Their groups always lead to violence and bloodshed.

Think of the Branch Davidians, the Ruby Ridgers, the Manson cult. It all comes to an end, but only after they've killed (some of) the Others along with members of their own group who succumb to other cultists or the FBI or ATF.

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Response to ravencalling (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 11:44 AM

11. Let's not forget we have a Jonestown rescue hero on our side in Congress!

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Response to Louis1895 (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 11:46 AM

12. Just realized Post #2 mentioned Jackie Speier

My link above is to a different article.

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