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appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:09 AM Feb 2019

The Benefits of a Bernie Candidacy

We're just an hour or two into Bernie being part of the 2020 Presidential Primary, and already I am seeing posts here about him being a "Narcissist" and worse.

I think that any progressive can embrace Bernie's presence in the campaign at this point, whether they endorse him or not. Having Sanders (and Warren) in the campaign already has shifted the discussion on issues like minimum wage, health care, etc. far beyond how they were being discussed at this point in time in 2014 when the first Bernie campaign was just getting going. Love him or hate him, the man has shifted many discussions leftward, creating room for other candidates to take progressive stands while still potentially positioning themselves as more "centrist" (a word which I despise, but it ain't going away...)

Remember that at this point in a Primary, it's all about ideas and building momentum. Bernie's presence will strengthen the Democratic race overall. And I say that as someone who leans toward Warren at this point in time. Seeing and hearing her and Bernie on a debate stage with all the rest of our fine field of candidates is a prospect I relish.

-app

204 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Benefits of a Bernie Candidacy (Original Post) appal_jack Feb 2019 OP
So MANY benefits... GO BERNIE!!! InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2019 #1
Hell no. EW is a real Democrat. we can do it Feb 2019 #34
So wrong DownriverDem Feb 2019 #75
agree onetexan Feb 2019 #120
Bernie is supported here on Democratic Underground Lordquinton Feb 2019 #131
THIS mac56 Feb 2019 #136
Oh you went there!!! rwsanders Feb 2019 #194
He announced he is running as a Democrat -- not an independent like the Starbucks former CEO. Liberty Belle Feb 2019 #176
Do you really think Bernie supporters will support awesomerwb1 Feb 2019 #201
Agreed- and thank you! David__77 Feb 2019 #84
No thanks. No Indies amuse bouche Feb 2019 #89
No indies? That's rich. An underground, by definition, is independent DemocracyMouse Feb 2019 #142
Where is this definition of underground as "independent"? sweetloukillbot Feb 2019 #152
' That's rich' amuse bouche Feb 2019 #196
Yeah! Go Bernie! Go! Keep going! Further! Codeine Feb 2019 #198
No. He's not a Democrat and will spend the primary attacking the Democratic party. manor321 Feb 2019 #2
Would you rather a third party run in the general election? appal_jack Feb 2019 #6
What's the difference in effect? Still hitting the Democrats from outside while absorbing votes uponit7771 Feb 2019 #11
Are you suggesting if he doesn't get the nod he'll throw the election to the GOP????? marble falls Feb 2019 #23
Like last time? Evergreen Emerald Feb 2019 #26
He didn't make a third party run last time. marble falls Feb 2019 #27
May as well have. we can do it Feb 2019 #36
EXACTLY. Cha Feb 2019 #157
Nonsense. He appeared in support of Hillary more than any other public figure onit2day Feb 2019 #160
🤣😂🤣 we can do it Feb 2019 #162
Does that include Bill Clinton? TexasTowelie Feb 2019 #174
Yep LongtimeAZDem Feb 2019 #30
He campaigned for Hillary TheFarseer Feb 2019 #141
And he refused to get out of the race... sweetloukillbot Feb 2019 #153
None of your "Facts" are true as we later found out he won majorities but onit2day Feb 2019 #163
What the fuck are you talking about sweetloukillbot Feb 2019 #164
You think TheFarseer Feb 2019 #167
🤣Campaigned vigorously🤣 we can do it Feb 2019 #159
Nice comeback TheFarseer Feb 2019 #170
He practically did that the last time treestar Feb 2019 #56
That's his choice DownriverDem Feb 2019 #91
"Bernie" the person is secondary at this point. appal_jack Feb 2019 #109
Why on EARTH would you want to call yourself a Sandernista???? sweetloukillbot Feb 2019 #154
I use "Sandernista" with my tongue firmly in cheek. appal_jack Feb 2019 #173
The vitriol never ends. shanny Feb 2019 #122
Well Said Shanny. Seems so many suffer from Bernie Derangement syndrome onit2day Feb 2019 #165
Yes. Let's be honest here...as a Democratic candidate who is not a Democrat...he can run against Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #204
That's what he did last time. Why would he change now? Texin Feb 2019 #65
His campaign manager, watoos Feb 2019 #68
We heard that promise True Blue American Feb 2019 #78
Huh? As Democratic as say... Joe Manchin? mwooldri Feb 2019 #70
+1, nt appal_jack Feb 2019 #77
Amen. Ruben "Gay Agenda" Diaz in New York is a "Real Democrat." QC Feb 2019 #100
+1 chwaliszewski Feb 2019 #126
THIS n/t Apollyonus Feb 2019 #114
bernie is NOT A DEMOCRAT!!! He is afraid of releasing his taxes and he has a #MeToo problem trueblue2007 Feb 2019 #148
What is "not a democrat" about him? He's more for our party thyan anyone onit2day Feb 2019 #158
Except the one measure that defines us... sweetloukillbot Feb 2019 #202
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2019 #188
taxes please ! stonecutter357 Feb 2019 #3
Yes, this is a reasonable request. appal_jack Feb 2019 #10
Chairman Neal should request them. bottomofthehill Feb 2019 #46
Yep and if he does in the next week or two safeinOhio Feb 2019 #71
Yes. From everyone. nt Susan Calvin Feb 2019 #169
Absolutely agree! Dennis Donovan Feb 2019 #4
+ 1000 Delmette2.0 Feb 2019 #93
Too bad Bernie is the least equipped to deliver that. BannonsLiver Feb 2019 #146
The Benefits of a Bernie Candidacy ? Not one thing we don't already have . stonecutter357 Feb 2019 #5
Nonsense. The number and diversity of voices matter. appal_jack Feb 2019 #22
Bernie brings nothing new to the Democratic party ! stonecutter357 Feb 2019 #25
He already brought it. It's what we all are talking about now. onit2day Feb 2019 #166
Bernie and diversity🤣 we can do it Feb 2019 #37
hahahahahahahahaha Apollyonus Feb 2019 #116
He's going to get a base of people who will say he was cheated by the DNC and they'll refuse to vote NightWatcher Feb 2019 #7
What were DWS and Donna Brazile's roles? appal_jack Feb 2019 #32
It's always blame the women. we can do it Feb 2019 #38
I blame the actions. appal_jack Feb 2019 #44
Oh, come on., give me a break... pangaia Feb 2019 #76
Cripes. Clarence Thomas much? JudyM Feb 2019 #107
+1 BannonsLiver Feb 2019 #195
Just scapegoats to explain Bernie's failure Apollyonus Feb 2019 #117
"... but some will withhold their vote (which counts just like a vote for trump)." pangaia Feb 2019 #74
Regardless I hope us Dems wake up and realize the infighting cost us Trump - not this time! walkingman Feb 2019 #8
+1 demmiblue Feb 2019 #12
Absolutely. SammyWinstonJack Feb 2019 #19
Is Sanders running as a democrat or not? thx in advance uponit7771 Feb 2019 #9
Anyone can run for a Party nomination. appal_jack Feb 2019 #15
Is Sanders going to run for the democratic nomination as a democrat? thx in advance uponit7771 Feb 2019 #17
As a voter, you can ask him. nt appal_jack Feb 2019 #18
You can't be an "independent campaigning for the Democratic nomination"; the rules were changed LongtimeAZDem Feb 2019 #33
Well, Bernie's either in or he's not. appal_jack Feb 2019 #48
So you're just supporting him whether or not he's gaming the rules. Gotcha sweetloukillbot Feb 2019 #58
Reading IS Fundamental, my friend. appal_jack Feb 2019 #73
I have read your evasions and non answers sweetloukillbot Feb 2019 #149
Can you point out this supposed personal attack on you? appal_jack Feb 2019 #171
Where are his taxes? leftynyc Feb 2019 #13
+1 Docreed2003 Feb 2019 #16
Thanks leftynyc Feb 2019 #41
Primary candidates have never been asked for their tax returns. Delmette2.0 Feb 2019 #99
He's the only one leftynyc Feb 2019 #127
We need transparency. Show your taxes, Sanders! lunamagica Feb 2019 #14
Just out of curiosity, have you asked every other declared candidate shanny Feb 2019 #124
Sanders (and trump) is the only one who ran last time who promised to release his taxes lunamagica Feb 2019 #128
That was a mistake on his part shanny Feb 2019 #137
The fact is that he promised they would release them, and he didn't. Hillary showed hers lunamagica Feb 2019 #138
I said it was a mistake shanny Feb 2019 #143
i am nit certain that i support him, but rampartc Feb 2019 #20
What will happen... quickesst Feb 2019 #21
A robust and open Primary will avoid this. appal_jack Feb 2019 #40
Well.... quickesst Feb 2019 #172
+1 Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #179
**** quickesst Feb 2019 #193
Bernie IS a Narcissist...as is every other candidate brooklynite Feb 2019 #24
I agree. It takes a certain amount of arrogance TexasBushwhacker Feb 2019 #115
Yep. KPN Feb 2019 #123
All Democrats should avoid infighting - OhZone Feb 2019 #28
No I see no benefits. I fear we could end up with a situation similar to 16...lose the general. Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #29
ABB Anybody But Bernie! kennetha Feb 2019 #31
But his ideas are very present. Others are echoing his message. Why not at least Doitnow Feb 2019 #119
I don't think many of those ideas originated with Bernie. TexasTowelie Feb 2019 #156
Apparently it was not stressed enough. Doitnow Feb 2019 #175
Yes, except that I'll add: Anybody but Bernie and Tulsie! lunamagica Feb 2019 #129
The Benefits of a Bernie Candidacy Botany Feb 2019 #35
I have faith that Democrats are stronger than that. appal_jack Feb 2019 #130
Russian Trolls Johnny2X2X Feb 2019 #39
I like pictures Botany Feb 2019 #42
Сделать Россию великой снова! dalton99a Feb 2019 #69
Сделать Россию великой снова Botany Feb 2019 #112
One of my 2 or 3 favorite cities in the world.... pangaia Feb 2019 #83
No. The Russian trolls attack Democrats. We don't get R B Garr Feb 2019 #53
Russian Trolls! peggysue2 Feb 2019 #55
Where is Tad Devine? MrsCoffee Feb 2019 #105
Right here as we speak. Sanders is joining with us officially; he has continually voted with us. JudyM Feb 2019 #111
Bernie brings so much to the table and opens discussions UpInArms Feb 2019 #43
The Negatives of a Bernie Candidacy honest.abe Feb 2019 #45
Yep. Screenshotting this. LongtimeAZDem Feb 2019 #49
Yep. kstewart33 Feb 2019 #72
+1 Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #180
All I'll say is this: Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #47
The stakes were too high last time, and he didn't care. It's all about him. I don't see him changing lunamagica Feb 2019 #52
This time, if Bern says the system is rigged against him.... kstewart33 Feb 2019 #80
The other benefit is I'll know which DUers to put on ignore until the silliness is over Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #178
I just made my first 2020 donation! Eom roody Feb 2019 #50
I'm glad he's in MontanaFarmer Feb 2019 #51
One benefit is when it's clear he's lost the primary he likes to still soldier on in the hopes of UniteFightBack Feb 2019 #54
Bernie is a drag on a party he refuses to join. Paladin Feb 2019 #57
No Bernie. No Biden. No old men. nt in2herbs Feb 2019 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author Duppers Feb 2019 #177
Bernie has had zentrum Feb 2019 #60
I agree 100%. Bernie is issue-focused, and will challenge his opponents to be so as well. jcmaine72 Feb 2019 #61
This is well said. Bernie's voice will be valuable in the primaries. nt earthshine Feb 2019 #62
"any progressive can embrace Bernie's presence in the campaign" at this point. pnwmom Feb 2019 #63
This worked out so well last time didn't it? DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #64
No seta1950 Feb 2019 #66
What Part of "YOU ARE TOO OLD" Does Bernie Not Understand? DoctorJoJo Feb 2019 #67
Huh? I wish I had Bernie's fitness. mwooldri Feb 2019 #79
Warren is eight years younger than Bernie... appal_jack Feb 2019 #86
Is that TOO OLD to contribute? mountain grammy Feb 2019 #98
Well, I'm Bernie's Age, and I'M Too Old! He'd Be 80 the Year He Took Office! DoctorJoJo Feb 2019 #139
Good points! David__77 Feb 2019 #81
but will he? Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #181
Good points! PatrickforO Feb 2019 #82
Exactly. nt appal_jack Feb 2019 #87
Yes it did and we are the party for the people. mountain grammy Feb 2019 #96
Ind #1 re-election. nt jrthin Feb 2019 #85
To pull the discussion left, YES. For president, NO infullview Feb 2019 #88
Yep. This is a different time and we are in a different place as a country than we were then. CTyankee Feb 2019 #90
And if he isn't the nominee will his fanatics fuck us like they did last time? Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #182
I'm not referring to his "fanatics." They were considered so then but now his ideas seem just CTyankee Feb 2019 #183
My question still stands Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #186
Not sure they have remained a static group. Times change and most, if not all, have changed with the CTyankee Feb 2019 #187
Hell, I voted for Sanders in the primary Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #189
So maybe today's Bernistas are different from the old ones? CTyankee Feb 2019 #190
Not if Twitter is any indication n/t Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #191
I'm too old to care about Twitter...maybe I should, but I don't. CTyankee Feb 2019 #192
I Want His Ideas Out There! McKim Feb 2019 #92
The GOP is loving Bernie... JohnZSmith Feb 2019 #94
The drawback of a Bernie candidacy... SpankMe Feb 2019 #95
What gets me are the "purists" Duppers Feb 2019 #184
I would be lying if I said I don't see the benefits of Bernie running ZeroSomeBrains Feb 2019 #97
During the 2016 primary mac56 Feb 2019 #101
+ about ten thousand PDittie Feb 2019 #134
I want to see sanders' tax returns Gothmog Feb 2019 #102
i have a real problem with bernie running rdking647 Feb 2019 #103
Go Bernie.... Mad_Mongol Feb 2019 #104
Or his voters will just embrace Trump Dopers_Greed Feb 2019 #106
Post removed Post removed Feb 2019 #108
NO Apollyonus Feb 2019 #110
This message was self-deleted by its author Apollyonus Feb 2019 #113
As long as he and his followers pledge to fully support the nominee, if he does not win Tarc Feb 2019 #118
I don't think we get to set that requirement fescuerescue Feb 2019 #145
And they can be freely kicked out of the DU if they choose not to comply Tarc Feb 2019 #150
OH we are just talking about DU fescuerescue Feb 2019 #151
Until he (A) releases his full tax returns (B) pledges to become and remain a D *permanently*, Maven Feb 2019 #121
Bernie broadbrushes legislation. It's annoying ismnotwasm Feb 2019 #125
I agree 100%. Bernie has strengthened the progressive movement immensely over the course of his KPN Feb 2019 #132
Bernie will keep the campaign honest Lordquinton Feb 2019 #133
This is how Republicans win, divide and concur. Stellar Feb 2019 #135
Excellent analysis! Power 2 the People Feb 2019 #140
Just about all of our candidates have the same voting record. The problem with Sanders and others... Garrett78 Feb 2019 #144
... BannonsLiver Feb 2019 #147
As long as he doesn't continually attack the party like he did before fine. Eko Feb 2019 #155
Voter registration drives on college campuses Awsi Dooger Feb 2019 #161
I like hearing what he has to say. pwb Feb 2019 #168
Thank you, appal_jack! +100 Duppers Feb 2019 #185
I also like Warrens POV's.. disillusioned73 Feb 2019 #197
We are going to have some kick ass debates this time. Can't wait. Autumn Feb 2019 #199
You got that right.. disillusioned73 Feb 2019 #200
I see no benefit at all...personally. I think it will only cause division which we don't need. Demsrule86 Feb 2019 #203

DownriverDem

(6,187 posts)
75. So wrong
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:05 AM
Feb 2019

Democratic Underground supports Democrats. Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party. Maybe you need to find a new site.

Liberty Belle

(9,525 posts)
176. He announced he is running as a Democrat -- not an independent like the Starbucks former CEO.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 06:47 PM
Feb 2019

He's not a Ralph Nader.

If Sanders fires up and motivates lots of progressives and Democrats to get out and vote, regardless or whether he wins or another Democrat wins the primary race, it could be a net positive.

Hopefully he will level his criticisms against Trump and the traitorous Republicans, not Dems in the primary.

Remember that some of those divisive voices last time running down others purporting to be with Bernie turned out to be Russian bots. Hopefully people are more savvy this time and less apt to be duped.

That said, I think many of his past supporters may shift to Elizabeth Warren now that there is a true progressive option in the race with a solid track record--and a woman to boot.

awesomerwb1

(4,255 posts)
201. Do you really think Bernie supporters will support
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:36 AM
Feb 2019

the Democratic nominee if he loses? A lot of them will blame the loss on some conspiracy theory, or "establishment Dems" or some crazy ***t like that and simply not vote or do another "protest vote" and vote for trump or the Green party.

From what I see on Twitter from them, and from what I saw from them in 2016, a lot of them won't and that only helps trump.


DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
142. No indies? That's rich. An underground, by definition, is independent
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:30 PM
Feb 2019

Go Democrats, the party of free thinkers (with a conscience)!

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
198. Yeah! Go Bernie! Go! Keep going! Further!
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:04 AM
Feb 2019

All the way until you’re gone and I don’t have to hear your baying hounds anymore!

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
6. Would you rather a third party run in the general election?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:17 AM
Feb 2019

I think that it's really important to remember that third party runs kill the side that the third party is closest to. Perot killed the GHW Bush reelection campaign. Nader may have helped to kill the Gore campaign (although I blame Gore himself, his choice of Joe Loserman as VP, and the Supreme Court all much more).

If you or the Democratic Party as a whole squelch the Sandernista voice during the Primary process, you are only pushing those voices toward third parties. Not my idea of a good strategy...

-app

sweetloukillbot

(10,696 posts)
153. And he refused to get out of the race...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:45 PM
Feb 2019

When it was obvious to anyone with an inkling of understanding about how the primaries work, that he had no path to the nomination.
He then vocally complained about "undemocratic SuperDelegates" while attempting to woo them with the specious claim that only he could defeat Trump, and they should therefore ignore the will of the voters and make him the nominee. All the while touting conspiracy theories about how the DNC was handicapping him and firing up the Bros. Then, after his delegates made a stink, booing civil rights leaders at the Convention, he went on a book tour and half-assed promoted Hillary.

What he should have done was drop out after Super Tuesday (or, even better, South Carolina) and hit the road for Hillary hardcore.

Hopefully he won't be treated with kid gloves this time, and will have to explain how his pie-in-the-sky plans will work. As well as his recent missed votes and racist statements regarding white voters and minority candidates...

 

onit2day

(1,201 posts)
163. None of your "Facts" are true as we later found out he won majorities but
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:36 PM
Feb 2019

was denied by those in power. See Michael Moore's film "Farenheight 11/9"

sweetloukillbot

(10,696 posts)
164. What the fuck are you talking about
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:38 PM
Feb 2019

Where did he win majorities and was denied? And I’d suggest that you actually refute the facts you take issue with rather than make up another conspiracy theory

TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
167. You think
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 05:03 PM
Feb 2019

He should have dropped out after South Carolina when about 1% of the country had voted? When you play basketball is the game over after the first 2 points?

TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
170. Nice comeback
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 05:20 PM
Feb 2019

Packed with hard facts. I hope you didn’t spend all day researching that. Do you realize how many events he did campaigning for her? His schedule was packed with rallies for her. That’s just a fact.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
109. "Bernie" the person is secondary at this point.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:35 AM
Feb 2019

I've said it before (look at my Journal if you want) and I'll say it again: 2020 (or beyond for that matter, given his age) is probably not Bernie's moment to become President. It is a continued opportunity for his voice and ideas to be part of the conversation though...

The Democratic constituency known as "Sandernistas" or "Democratic Socialists" or even "the Economic Left" are emerging into a moment (or hopefully an enduring position of influence) such that they deserve a voice, and a candidate that pays them more than lip service.

No one is asking anyone to "bow" to Bernie. But the Democratic party needs to take the Economic Left seriously, and treat it as an essential and influential piece of the Democratic constituency overall. This was not a problem in the least from FDR to LBJ and beyond (you know, back when Democratic policies shaped America's domestic organization); why should it be a problem now?

-app

sweetloukillbot

(10,696 posts)
154. Why on EARTH would you want to call yourself a Sandernista????
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:46 PM
Feb 2019

Jesus Christ - brand yourself a fucking Communist and wonder why you don't get elected....

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
173. I use "Sandernista" with my tongue firmly in cheek.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 06:32 PM
Feb 2019

I know that many people use "Sandernista" as a pejorative, but I am amused by how it sounds for us fans of a longtime Democratic Socialist. Just a bit of humor to throw back in the faces of those who would red-bait an opponent whom they deem too far left...

-app

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
122. The vitriol never ends.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:56 AM
Feb 2019

I wholeheartedly agree with you: Bernie's presence in the race last time and I hope this time will push the Party where it needs to go, to the left. We and the country will be stronger for it.

Posts to the effect that Bernie somehow lost Clinton the race are nonsensical to me. 43% of Democratic primary voters voted for Bernie! Giving those people a nod, not just with the platform* but say, a leftie VP pick--could have won the race. Showing them the door now would be political malpractice.

*the very progressive platform that, 2 years on, is looking mainstream--interesting how that worked.

 

onit2day

(1,201 posts)
165. Well Said Shanny. Seems so many suffer from Bernie Derangement syndrome
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:46 PM
Feb 2019

5-6 yrs ago Bernie could not even get one Democratic sponsor on his Medicare for all bill. Now almost all are in support of it, just like free college, increased in Min Wage, breaking up the big banks, increased SS benefits etc. We live under a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST REPUBLIC already but we need to increase benefits of our social safety net and decrease our give aways to the Billionaires and their deregulation tactics that are killing us and the planet we live on. Supporting Bernie's ideology is the democratic party agenda.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
204. Yes. Let's be honest here...as a Democratic candidate who is not a Democrat...he can run against
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 01:18 PM
Feb 2019

not only Democratic candidates but the party itself...that is very damaging coming from within a primary and can dissuade voters from voting for the eventual nominee.

Texin

(2,584 posts)
65. That's what he did last time. Why would he change now?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:52 AM
Feb 2019

He's voted more in line with the rethugs than with the Dems. He is NOT a Democrat.

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
70. Huh? As Democratic as say... Joe Manchin?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:01 AM
Feb 2019

Bernie will be running for the Democratic Party nomination. He is a Democrat in all but name. He could try an independent run like Mr. Coffee (I forget his name) and that would be far worse for the Democratic Party than running as a true independent.

It is also interesting to note that the Democratic mainstream have coopted a lot of his policies.

While I welcome his candidacy and while I believe he is not the right candidate at this time I hope we can have a courteous and civilised debate about the issues and not re-live the 2016 primaries. Those primaries were divisive as heck and forced a number of people who backed Bernie but felt ganged up on here at DU to leave (JackPine Radicals coming to mind).

QC

(26,371 posts)
100. Amen. Ruben "Gay Agenda" Diaz in New York is a "Real Democrat."
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:26 AM
Feb 2019

Kim Davis, at the time she was denying marriage licenses to LGBT people, was a Real Democrat™. Fred Phelps ran for public office as a Real Democrat™. Joe Manchin, Real Democrat™, has voted to put Trump's fascists in the federal courts and his wreckers in federal agencies like the EPA.

Party affiliation matters--I've been a Real Democrat™ since I registered to vote at eighteen years of age--but it's not the only thing.

I wish some people could come up with substantive arguments about policy instead of resorting to this one:

 

onit2day

(1,201 posts)
158. What is "not a democrat" about him? He's more for our party thyan anyone
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:31 PM
Feb 2019

else, including making more campaign appearances in support of Hillary after she became our nominee than any other legislator or public figure during her run for president. Leading the party and being critical of aspects of our party that are regressive is being a strong Democrat. Robert Reich says he's done more to bring our party into modern times than anyone else and change the conversation and discussion to FDR's 2nd bill of rights and what the majority of Democrats stand for as well as the majority of Americans stand for. Support him or not he deserves our appreciation and respect for his tireless effort in support of our party and of our principles. At age 21 he was arrested chained to a black woman at a civil rights protest. He is a Democrat by every measure that defines us.

Response to manor321 (Reply #2)

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
10. Yes, this is a reasonable request.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:19 AM
Feb 2019

Especially after Trump, we the people deserve to see our candidates' tax returns. No argument otherwise from me!

-app

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
71. Yep and if he does in the next week or two
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:02 AM
Feb 2019

will you be happy?
I say let him run and I won't vote for him.

Dennis Donovan

(18,770 posts)
4. Absolutely agree!
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:13 AM
Feb 2019

After nearly 40 years of the economic trajectory being swung wildly in favor of the rich, we NEED the conversation Bernie is starting.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
22. Nonsense. The number and diversity of voices matter.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:34 AM
Feb 2019

Like I said above, I really lean toward Warren at this point in time. But without Bernie (and Tulsi maybe?), Warren would be the most "extreme" (translation = moderately leftist on economic issues) of the candidates. The Warren candidacy needs a Bernie campaign at this point, and a Tulsi campaign would only further reinforce the idea that Warren's ideas are solidly in the mainstream of American politics.

-app

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
7. He's going to get a base of people who will say he was cheated by the DNC and they'll refuse to vote
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:17 AM
Feb 2019

for the elected Democratic nominee.

Most of his supporters will vote for the Democratic nominee, but some will withhold their vote (which counts just like a vote for trump). All he needs to do is whittle off enough votes for trump to manipulate the system again.

Jill Stein played a role last time and she knew it. Bernie played a role last time and may or may not know it.

Why won't he release his taxes? What's he hiding? Is he still receiving support from somewhere he doesn't want us knowing about?

We've seen this movie and know how it will come out. We'll lose.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
32. What were DWS and Donna Brazile's roles?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:45 AM
Feb 2019

I am ALL for a robust and transparent Primary process, where Bernie and every single other potential Democratic candidate rise and fall upon their own merits.

No doubt, 2016 was a clusterf---, with Putin and his bots (one of whom was named Jill Stein) playing horrendous roles. But Debbie Wasserman Shultz and Donna Brazile fed the flames with the appearance of impropriety. I'm not interested in re-fighting whether there was impropriety or not: the appearance itself fed into the bots' strategy.

Let's just have a debate on the merits of ideas and campaign organization. I have faith that the voters can make informed choices if given the chance.

-app

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
44. I blame the actions.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:53 AM
Feb 2019

Genitalia, secondary sex characteristics, or even gender a a whole really don't play a role here. If Tom Perez shepherds a fair and transparent Primary Process, I will applaud him. If he makes the same mistakes as DWS, I will excoriate him.

-app

 

Apollyonus

(812 posts)
117. Just scapegoats to explain Bernie's failure
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:43 AM
Feb 2019

to attract people of color.

(Except Cornell West, Nina Turner and ... oh oh oh ... Killer Mike!)

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
74. "... but some will withhold their vote (which counts just like a vote for trump)."
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:04 AM
Feb 2019

Will these same people also withhold their vote for the eventual Dem candidate if Bernie DOESN'T run?

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
15. Anyone can run for a Party nomination.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:21 AM
Feb 2019

Bernie is an independent campaigning for the Democratic nomination. He refrained from making a third party run in 2016 even though many of his supporters were begging him to do so. That's good enough for me.

-app

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
48. Well, Bernie's either in or he's not.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:57 AM
Feb 2019

I am sure if he is declaring a candidacy, his team is aware of the rules. It's not my role as a voter to enforce that: the Party has all sorts of higher-paid people to do so. I trust the process.

-app

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
73. Reading IS Fundamental, my friend.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:04 AM
Feb 2019

Had you read my OP and replies, you would not think this at all.



-app

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
171. Can you point out this supposed personal attack on you?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 05:51 PM
Feb 2019

For that matter, can you point to those "evasions and non answers" you are accusing me of?

-app

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
13. Where are his taxes?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:19 AM
Feb 2019

That's what each of the candidates should ask every time his name is even mentioned.

Delmette2.0

(4,131 posts)
99. Primary candidates have never been asked for their tax returns.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:25 AM
Feb 2019

Until the DNC makes it a rule (which I think it should be) then don't complain about one person.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
124. Just out of curiosity, have you asked every other declared candidate
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:58 AM
Feb 2019

for his or her taxes? Like, right now?

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
128. Sanders (and trump) is the only one who ran last time who promised to release his taxes
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:05 PM
Feb 2019

and didn't keep that promise.

We have been waiting TWO years to see those taxes

So, your whataboutism doesn't work here.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
137. That was a mistake on his part
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:30 PM
Feb 2019

since heretofore it had been the norm for the nominee to show his taxes and he was never the nominee. What I don't understand--since he wasn't the nominee--is why anyone spent the last two years waiting to see them. Seems like a total waste of time, not to mention a pointless invasion of privacy...but whatever. Enjoy.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
138. The fact is that he promised they would release them, and he didn't. Hillary showed hers
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:35 PM
Feb 2019

during the primary, before she was the nominee.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
143. I said it was a mistake
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:36 PM
Feb 2019

but I do think it is funny that to drive home your point you say, what about Hillary?

Hillary also broke with tradition, in the other direction. In our current circumstance, that looks like a good thing and maybe there needs to be a law for anyone filing for office, or at least for preznit. But there isn't, at this time, and there wasn't then. So--sorry!--but it just looks like another thing to flay Bernie with. That seems to be a favorite sport around here...despite the fact that 43% of D primary voters picked him last time.

Including me. I don't know if I will again but I will share my main criteria: my primary vote will go to a candidate hated by Wall St.

rampartc

(5,216 posts)
20. i am nit certain that i support him, but
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:32 AM
Feb 2019

sen sanders extends and enhances out values and continues to inspire younf candidates and voters that we will need in 2020 and beyond.

hell, our statewide elections are this year (louisiana) and i would love for sen sanders, or any of our candidates to come down and support john bel edwards' reelection. we need all the help we can get.

quickesst

(6,279 posts)
21. What will happen...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:33 AM
Feb 2019

.... as evidenced in 2016 is that many Bernie Sanders supporters will feel like victims when he is not nominated, and will take it out on the eventual nominee. If not nominated, Bernie Sanders and his supporters will have the same effect on the Democratic party's efforts that a Schultz independent campaign will have. Although this scenario may end up applying to other candidates, Bernie Sanders and his supporters have a verified history of this behavior. Many of Bernie Sanders supporters have proven they are a vindictive lot. That is my opinion on what I believe will occur if Bernie Sanders runs and loses.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
40. A robust and open Primary will avoid this.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:49 AM
Feb 2019

The Primary process is the chance to bring Democratic constituencies together. I see no evidence that Sandernistas will take their bats and balls and go home at this stage. Let the man campaign. Let his supporters support. A robust series of debates and media events will bring relevant issues to light.

We have more than a year to pick a candidate. Trust the voters and the process while standing up for what you believe!

-app

quickesst

(6,279 posts)
172. Well....
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 06:17 PM
Feb 2019

...he's running, so there's not really a choice but to rely on the voters to make the right choice, and not have a repeat a 2016. My remarks are more observatory than anything else.

brooklynite

(93,626 posts)
24. Bernie IS a Narcissist...as is every other candidate
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:38 AM
Feb 2019

It's in the nature of the job that you have to have a large measure of self-admiration to think that you have the skills and accomplishment to get elected President, much less actually serve competently.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,010 posts)
115. I agree. It takes a certain amount of arrogance
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:41 AM
Feb 2019

to think you and only you, are the best person to run the United States. Of course, arrogance does not equal competence. We see that with Trump.

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
28. All Democrats should avoid infighting -
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:41 AM
Feb 2019

and make it a contest on who can point out flaws in non-Democrats like Trump - and Bernie the best.

Where are your Taxes, Trump??? - And Bernie.

Why do you support the NRA, Trump??? - And Bernie.

Etc.

ha

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
31. ABB Anybody But Bernie!
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:44 AM
Feb 2019

Dear Bernie:

Just go away. Your time is WAY past! And thanks for helping elect Trump!

Doitnow

(1,103 posts)
119. But his ideas are very present. Others are echoing his message. Why not at least
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:47 AM
Feb 2019

include the original in the selection process!

And I will again vote for the nominee.

TexasTowelie

(110,960 posts)
156. I don't think many of those ideas originated with Bernie.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:22 PM
Feb 2019

I recall hearing about economic justice when I took U.S. government my first year in college. Economic justice and social justice were emphasized in the liberal arts university I graduated from in the 1980s.

The message that others are echoing were part of the Democratic platform for decades.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
130. I have faith that Democrats are stronger than that.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:08 PM
Feb 2019

Trump is exceedingly incompetent and criminal. We can defeat him.

Bernie's ideas and campaign have strengthened the Democratic position for 2020, and I see no reason why this should not continue to be true.

We have a great Democratic field, and I believe that a winner will emerge.

-app

Johnny2X2X

(18,634 posts)
39. Russian Trolls
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:48 AM
Feb 2019

There are flat out Russian trolls and those influenced and spurred by Russian Trolls attacking Bernie right now.

Bernie can do a lot for the Democratic Party, including bring us the White House. I love his the direction he pushes our party in.

Anti Hillary Russian Trolls found their footing in the primaries in 2016, they found their footing in Bernie supporters many of who fell for and spread their lies. Now it seems Bernie is the biggest threat because it's starting all over again in the opposite direction.

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
53. No. The Russian trolls attack Democrats. We don't get
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:08 AM
Feb 2019

to rewrite history and known facts to present another false narrative of victimization. In fact, spreading the altered scenarios is a Russian troll’s job.

The Russian trolls attack Democrats. They promoted Bernie because of his stances that questioned Democrats. This is proven fact, all over the news, the subject of criminal FBI probes (how the Russians helped Trump win by helping TrumpSandersStein).

peggysue2

(10,801 posts)
55. Russian Trolls!
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:12 AM
Feb 2019

How weird. That's exactly what Jill Stein said/predicted for Bernie.

Coinky-dink, I'm sure.

JudyM

(29,105 posts)
111. Right here as we speak. Sanders is joining with us officially; he has continually voted with us.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:36 AM
Feb 2019

UpInArms

(51,243 posts)
43. Bernie brings so much to the table and opens discussions
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:53 AM
Feb 2019

That will not be heard from others.

Go, Bernie!

honest.abe

(8,547 posts)
45. The Negatives of a Bernie Candidacy
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:55 AM
Feb 2019

He will bash our good nominees and gin up all sorts of anger among his loyal followers who in the end will be so pissed off they will either not vote, vote write-in or hold their nose and vote Dem but wont work for the nominee or donate. Much like 2016.

We cannot afford this again.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
47. All I'll say is this:
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:57 AM
Feb 2019

*WHEN* Bernie bows out, he needs to fucking fall in line and support the nominee... No bullshit about the primary process being unfair, no bullshit accusations of cheating or rigging, and no bullshit screaming for weeks about how he's going to take his case to the Supreme Court...

I am not kidding.

The stakes are too high around this time, and if his people stick us with another four years of Donnie, I won't be responsible for my actions.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
80. This time, if Bern says the system is rigged against him....
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:08 AM
Feb 2019

It simply won't work.
Too many qualified and much younger candidates with similar platforms. The media has only so many broadcast hours in the day.

MontanaFarmer

(630 posts)
51. I'm glad he's in
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:58 AM
Feb 2019

Although I'd never vote for him in a primary. I think he did well enough last time to run again, and have his issues heard. It bothers me less that he's not a Dem than it does others, but he needn't attack our party again. He has no "establishment" to run against this time, and several other candidates talking about Medicare for all, higher minimum wage, etc. I don't think he'll fare well this time, and I hope he doesn't. He's, in my opinion, not a person given to building the coalitions needed to govern. He's always been on the fringes of the party, never having to lead, just able to be a bomb thrower. I'm glad he's in, so he can be beaten again. If he's not, and he's our nominee, of course I will be voting for him in the general.

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
54. One benefit is when it's clear he's lost the primary he likes to still soldier on in the hopes of
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:10 AM
Feb 2019

achieving...????

Paladin

(28,173 posts)
57. Bernie is a drag on a party he refuses to join.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:15 AM
Feb 2019

To hell with him. There are a slew of better, for-real Democratic candidates, this time around.

Response to in2herbs (Reply #59)

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
60. Bernie has had
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:43 AM
Feb 2019

.....a tremendously positive effect on the Democratic Party and his ideas are now embedded in the policies of most of the candidates. Thank you Bernie! He changed the world.

But his time is past and his only role at this point is to keep pushing the progressive agenda at the back of the front runners. I hear he's second choice among polled Democrats after Biden.

Would love to have one of the women (except Gillibrand) be the candidate but am terrified that the country will not vote for a woman. We must beat Trump. It's the number one criterion.

jcmaine72

(1,773 posts)
61. I agree 100%. Bernie is issue-focused, and will challenge his opponents to be so as well.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:43 AM
Feb 2019

As you have already astutely pointed out, Bernie's presence will help guide the discussion on all levels to issues that are actually important to the vast majority of Americans. This elevates his opponents as well as him and will greatly help whomever the nominee will be (even if it isn't him) in squaring off against Dotard and his inevitably tawdry and lie focused campaign....provided they don't allow themselves to be dragged into the gutter and sewer by Rump. That's where he always wins. We win when we focus on issues that are important to the people, and that's what Bernie will help all involved to do with his candidacy.

pnwmom

(108,914 posts)
63. "any progressive can embrace Bernie's presence in the campaign" at this point.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:51 AM
Feb 2019

After his failure to release multiple years of full tax returns? After having to drag out of him just a single, 7 page return? After his months-long delay in conceding, waiting almost till the convention? After his lukewarm campaigning for Hillary, once he finally started in September?

I think many progressives will not be "embracing him," even if they have no choice but to put up with him. Again.

 

DirtEdonE

(1,220 posts)
64. This worked out so well last time didn't it?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:52 AM
Feb 2019

Come on. It's time we stopped shooting ourselves in the foot.

Democrats should run as Democrats. Independents as independents. We have to know who and what is representing us on our ballot, IMO. If you don't want to identify as a Democrat why enjoin Democratic voters?

Bernie stayed in way too long in 2016. That was a mistake, IMO. We can't afford any errors in 2020 and that's not IMO, that's a fact.

seta1950

(932 posts)
66. No
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 10:55 AM
Feb 2019

I’m sorry no benefit in having someone join the Democrats only when he needs to,then going back to his original plan,NO

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
79. Huh? I wish I had Bernie's fitness.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:06 AM
Feb 2019

Bernie is probably fitter than a whole lot of people his age. Age is a number.... If he's fit enough and we'll enough then why not?

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
86. Warren is eight years younger than Bernie...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:12 AM
Feb 2019

...one of the many reasons I lean toward Warren as my pick for President at this time.

It's a long campaign ahead, and I am happy to hear from all Democratic candidates.

-app

PatrickforO

(14,479 posts)
82. Good points!
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:08 AM
Feb 2019

I'm not thinking Bernie will get all that far this time. There's too much bench strength at this point. We have some really good candidates in the race - all imperfect in one or another area - but all several orders of magnitude superior to Trump (and Pence).

Not everyone here will agree with me, but in 2016, Bernie and his group forced the Democratic platform a bit left, and I see that as a very good thing.

Now, with both he and Warren in the race, we have automatically elevated the dialog around real kitchen table issues of economic justice, and we have other candidates who are really strong and will force the dialog to include social justice. This is a really great field.

infullview

(978 posts)
88. To pull the discussion left, YES. For president, NO
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:14 AM
Feb 2019

I like Bernie, but let's face it, we don't need another crusty old white guy at the helm.

CTyankee

(63,708 posts)
90. Yep. This is a different time and we are in a different place as a country than we were then.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:16 AM
Feb 2019

Ater two years of Trump Bernie's message is more welcome...

CTyankee

(63,708 posts)
183. I'm not referring to his "fanatics." They were considered so then but now his ideas seem just
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 08:34 PM
Feb 2019

mainstream Dem (except for Amy K.'s demurral on college tuition for all). I think Bernie's ideas are more mainstream now. People have gotten used to them and after two years of Trump are seeing the good things that Bernie was promoting.

I consider this to be a good development. What a difference two years make!

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
186. My question still stands
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 08:43 PM
Feb 2019

If Sanders isn't the nominee, will his followers seek revenge again by sabotaging the primary winner?

I'm just trying to reconcile how someone could be a Sanders Democrat and love his policies and anti-Wall Street rhetoric only to turn into a Trump Democrat at the flip of a switch...

CTyankee

(63,708 posts)
187. Not sure they have remained a static group. Times change and most, if not all, have changed with the
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 08:51 PM
Feb 2019

I live in CT where there are plenty of Bernistas (I was one but not a fanatic, I voted for HRC in the general but Bernie in the primary, because I wanted his ideas to prevail in the Dem Party). We were a civilized lot. My husband was HRC all the way but wasn't upset that I voted for Bernie in the CT primary.

This might not be a bad idea for some progressive media types to investigate. Talk to some former Bernistas and ask them how they have changed, if any. My guess is the mindset of 2016 re Bernie is by and large now outdated -- not totally gone, of course, but not what we thought it was in 2016.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
189. Hell, I voted for Sanders in the primary
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 08:59 PM
Feb 2019

But the Sanders crowd was such a turn-off and laughably tone-deaf on matters of race I held my nose while doing it.

And seeing what the Sanders crowd is saying about Kamala doesn't bode well for their chances... But it's not like they'd listen to me anyway (which is tragic, since if they did he could very well be POTUS right now)

CTyankee

(63,708 posts)
190. So maybe today's Bernistas are different from the old ones?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:07 PM
Feb 2019

It's kind of stupid that the new ones are dissing Kamala (who I support).

My view: been there, done that with Bernie. We've moved on. The party has moved on. We are much too excited tohave all the women running to care much about Bernie. For one thing, he's too old and I say that as an old person myself. But we've moved on. We now have the distinct possibility of a woman president, a monumental first in this country. That, coupled with the Trump disaster, gives our movement new energy and commitment: we smell success for our efforts.

I'm psyched!

McKim

(2,412 posts)
92. I Want His Ideas Out There!
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:17 AM
Feb 2019

I am glad he is a candidate. I want his voice out there. We need him to defend Medicare for All and Free College and on other issues. The primary is about issues. This is the value of his candidacy. I will vote for whoever is the nominee from our party. It is good to have voices from The Left, The Left has been squished and battered in this country, that is why things are so tipping to The Right.

 

JohnZSmith

(33 posts)
94. The GOP is loving Bernie...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:18 AM
Feb 2019

...for bringing back the bitter 2016 infighting that got Trump elected.

Hillary fans would be tempted to boycott Bernie if he actually won the nomination. Most wouldn't be immature enough to do that -- like the Bernie-or-Busters did -- but they'll sure as hell fight to defeat him in the primary.

If Bernie loses the primary, his hardcore fans will boycott ANY other Democratic Nominee again. That's not just my opinion; They were posting that several months ago.

SpankMe

(2,931 posts)
95. The drawback of a Bernie candidacy...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:20 AM
Feb 2019

...is that many DU discussion threads will deteriorate into nasty catfights with behaviors more befitting conservative trolls in tone and logic. I'm dreading this.

Sometimes I think it's better to take a break from DU rather than live through these divisive battles.

Duppers

(28,088 posts)
184. What gets me are the "purists"
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 08:40 PM
Feb 2019

I voted for Hillary, just to get that out of the way.

However I support Bernie's issues and values.

Anyone remember Joe Lieberman? He was always a "Democrat" but a traitor to my core issues and values.
The reason I am a Democrat is because of my values.


ZeroSomeBrains

(638 posts)
97. I would be lying if I said I don't see the benefits of Bernie running
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:22 AM
Feb 2019

Medicare for All is something he campaigned on in 2016 and now most Democratic candidates have called for some form of Medicare for All in their platforms.

More importantly than already getting at each other's throats about how great or evil Bernie is is to realize that no Democratic president will be able to get anything done without a US Senate in Democratic hands. Good luck to all the candidates and let's focus on getting the most we can out of a future Congress by voting in higher numbers than in any other US election in history.

mac56

(17,557 posts)
101. During the 2016 primary
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:27 AM
Feb 2019

I blocked a good many DU posters for their ruthless, petty, "mean girl" snark about Sanders.

I've never gone back to un-block them.

Threads like this have given me a whole new set of blockees.

Gothmog

(143,631 posts)
102. I want to see sanders' tax returns
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:28 AM
Feb 2019

Senator Harris released 10 years of tax returns when she announced. Where are sanders' tax returns

 

rdking647

(5,113 posts)
103. i have a real problem with bernie running
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:28 AM
Feb 2019

it has nothing to do with his stand on the issues. it has to do with him not being a democrat

he's only a democrat when its convenient for him. he wasnt one before he ran in 2016. after he lost he wasnt one again. and yet now he wants to run as one...



Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
106. Or his voters will just embrace Trump
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:31 AM
Feb 2019

When he complains that the primary was rigged by the DNC after he loses fair and square.

Response to appal_jack (Original post)

Response to appal_jack (Original post)

Tarc

(10,471 posts)
118. As long as he and his followers pledge to fully support the nominee, if he does not win
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:45 AM
Feb 2019

it is fine.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
145. I don't think we get to set that requirement
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:48 PM
Feb 2019

His followers are pretty much free to support to do what they want.

Maven

(10,533 posts)
121. Until he (A) releases his full tax returns (B) pledges to become and remain a D *permanently*,
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:55 AM
Feb 2019

Last edited Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:26 PM - Edit history (1)

(including any reelection bid for his Senate seat in VT, and including a pledge to share mailing/donor lists and other data with the party), and (C) pledges to leave the race if and when it becomes mathematically improbable for him to win and to immediately and wholeheartedly support the D nominee in the general,

he can fuck off.

He has a lot to atone for from 2016.

ismnotwasm

(41,885 posts)
125. Bernie broadbrushes legislation. It's annoying
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:01 PM
Feb 2019

Bernie could have done a lot of good by NOT running and kept true to his values. He could have influenced all the candidates. Now they will most likely need to distance themselves because Republicans are going to hit hard on the “socialist” bullshit.

He will not win, of course, he’s using his political capital to keep eyes on his core reforms, and “ideas” to the forefront. Healthcare, labor, and tax reform have been on the Democratic platform for a longtime. Bernie is a master at taking credit for these things because his message is simple and repeatable

If he dismisses social justice as “”identity politics” again he’s toast, before he ever gets started.


I’ve been sick for days, not happy to check in to this news, but it was expected.

KPN

(15,578 posts)
132. I agree 100%. Bernie has strengthened the progressive movement immensely over the course of his
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:11 PM
Feb 2019

career by effectively discrediting the "radical left" arguments of the right and even so-called moderates/centrists. His voice is important to building on the recent progress made on this within our great party in 2020 and beyond.

Frankly, I don't think Bernie has a chance of winning the nomination in 2020. I really don't think he does either. This is about keeping the pedal to the metal on economic justice issues in America and in our party (because when it comes right down to it, economic justice is pretty much dependent on the Democratic Party -- for the GOP, it's not even a consideration).

Stellar

(5,644 posts)
135. This is how Republicans win, divide and concur.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:15 PM
Feb 2019

We get hung up over a title, what s/he said about a candidate, is a certain candidate black enough, etc? As long as when the rubber hits the road, we aren't so angry that we don't vote at all OR vote for a third party candidate, that would definitely ensure a win for Trump.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
144. Just about all of our candidates have the same voting record. The problem with Sanders and others...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:11 PM
Feb 2019

...is that they bash identity politics in one sentence and want to talk about the "white working class" in the next sentence. Sanders also bashes his Democratic peers and constantly sticks his foot in his mouth with regard to issues of race and sex.

Sanders has no path to victory and wouldn't be a VP selection, nor does he need to boost his public profile. Plus, other candidates who appeal to his constituency will be in the race. I'm not sure why he's running beyond ego.

Eko

(7,131 posts)
155. As long as he doesn't continually attack the party like he did before fine.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:07 PM
Feb 2019

There is a way to promote your ideas without attacking the party you are running for.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
161. Voter registration drives on college campuses
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:33 PM
Feb 2019

Sanders has an appeal to the youth vote, or at least he did in 2016

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
197. I also like Warrens POV's..
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 10:31 AM
Feb 2019

Tulsis anti-war campaign also interests me - the debates should be very good this go around..

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
200. You got that right..
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 11:10 AM
Feb 2019

Ojeda dropping out maybe made things a bit more civil, because he was gonna bring some serious intensity.. but the current crop will give us some seriously substantive & policy driven discussions.. not that the media won't try to drive some wedges/ gutter politics & bring in the nonsensical fluff into the fold.. we can count on them for that - it's always about the horse race/drama with them..

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
203. I see no benefit at all...personally. I think it will only cause division which we don't need.
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 01:15 PM
Feb 2019

And we need a candidate that can appeal to moderates as well as progressives who gave us the house in 18...it is our reality.

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