Indentured Servants In The U.S.

[Galraedia]

Last edited Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:31 PM - Edit history (1)

In 1619 the first black Africans came to Virginia. With no slave laws in place, they were initially treated as indentured servants, and given the same opportunities for freedom dues as whites. However, slave laws were soon passed – in Massachusetts in 1641 and Virginia in 1661 –and any small freedoms that might have existed for blacks were taken away.

As demands for labor grew, so did the cost of indentured servants. Many landowners also felt threatened by newly freed servants demand for land. The colonial elite realized the problems of indentured servitude. Landowners turned to African slaves as a more profitable and ever-renewable source of labor and the shift from indentured servants to racial slavery had begun.

source: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/

So when Northam said, "We are now at the 400-year anniversary — just 90 miles from here in 1619. The first indentured servants from Africa landed on our shores in Old Point Comfort," he was actually correct. Indentured servants did arrive from Africa to Virginia in 1619. From the same source:

With passage to the Colonies expensive for all but the wealthy, the Virginia Company developed the system of indentured servitude to attract workers. Indentured servants became vital to the colonial economy.

This doesn't mean that slavery didn't occur, as it followed shortly after slave laws were passed. However, to say that there were no indentured servants that came to America during early colonization would be historically inaccurate.

[dawg day]

1. Did they choose to come?

I grew up in a Confederate state, and you wouldn't believe the tortuous arguments they made to make slavery seem not that bad, "not even really slavery at all."

This sounds like another one.

[HipChick]

2. Exactly...folks posting this stuff, like they are proud of it..

[dawg day]

3. When Gov Northam tried that "indentured servants" line yesterday--

interviewer Gayle King snapped right back, "Also known as slavery."

[HipChick]

4. So...what's your point?

[Galraedia]

7. Gov Northam was correct though. Indentured servants landed in Virgina in 1619

Northam said, "We are now at the 400-year anniversary — just 90 miles from here in 1619. The first indentured servants from Africa landed on our shores in Old Point Comfort." That is historically accurate. To say that it isn't is to ignore the actual history of early colonization.

[malaise]

21. Correct

I pointed that out

[Galraedia]

5. From the article....

With passage to the Colonies expensive for all but the wealthy, the Virginia Company developed the system of indentured servitude to attract workers. Indentured servants became vital to the colonial economy.

Source: http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/

So during early colonization, people that weren't wealthy and Africans did receive passage to America through indentured servitude. That in no way means that slavery didn't exist, as it clearly followed after slave laws were passed.

[HipChick]

6. So you are trying to push Africans were given a choice?

[Igel]

8. Two things that are similar do not need to be identical.

Indentured servitude, serfdom, and chattel slavery were distinct things.

On the other hand, all there were often involunary, the people involved could be bought and sold. So they were similar. However, there were also differences that varied by time and place.

Indentured servitude was bad; in places, you could be tried for killing a slave but you couldn't be tried for killing an indentured servant. It wasn't usually as bad as slavery, however. Details matter.

[Empowerer]

13. You could be tried for killing a slave because they were someone else's property

The murder of a slave was actionable because slaves were more valuable as chattel, not because they were considered to have any more value as a human being than indentured servants.

[Galraedia]

9. I'm trying to push historically accurate information.

Fact: Indentured servants did come to America from Africa and arrive in Virginia in 1619.

Fact: Many people from Africa were taken against their will and forced into slavery.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Why not see what the "accurate" information is from the website for historic Jamestown?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211808277#post10

[BumRushDaShow]

10. How does this reconcile with the account shown on the actual website for historic "Jamestown"?

The first Africans arrived in Virginia because of the transatlantic slave trade. Across three and a half centuries—from 1501 to 1867—more than 12.5 million Africans were captured, sold, and transported to the Americas. While Portugal and Spain were the first European powers engaged in this trade, eventually most of the European powers would get involved. It was as profitable as it was brutal.

The Africans who came to Virginia in 1619 had been taken from Angola in West Central Africa. They were captured in a series of wars that was part of much broader Portuguese hostilities against the Kongo and Ndongo kingdoms, and other states. These captives were then forced to march 100-200 miles to the coast to the major slave-trade port of Luanda. They were put on board the San Juan Bautista, which carried 350 captives bound for Vera Cruz, on the coast of Mexico, in the summer of 1619.

Nearing her destination, the slave ship was attacked by two English privateers, the White Lion and the Treasurer, in the Gulf of Mexico and robbed of 50-60 Africans. The two privateers then sailed to Virginia where the White Lion arrived at Point Comfort, or present-day Hampton, Virginia, toward the end of August. John Rolfe, a prominent planter and merchant (and formerly the husband of Pocahontas), reported that “20. and odd Negroes” were “bought for victuals,” (italics added). The majority of the Angolans were acquired by wealthy and well-connected English planters including Governor Sir George Yeardley and the cape, or head, merchant, Abraham Piersey. The Africans were sold into bondage despite Virginia having no clear-cut laws sanctioning slavery.

The Treasurer arrived at Point Comfort a few days after the White Lion but did not stay long, quickly setting sail for the English colony of Bermuda. Prior to leaving port, however, it is possible that 7 to 9 Africans were sold, including a woman named “Angelo” (Angela) who was taken to Lieutenant William Pierce’s Jamestown property, which is currently being excavated. By March 1620, 32 Africans were recorded in a muster as living in Virginia but by 1625 only 23 were recorded. These Africans, scattered throughout homes and farms of the James River Valley, were the first of hundreds of thousands of Africans forced to endure slavery in colonial British America.

https://historicjamestowne.org/history/the-first-africans/

Main website - https://historicjamestowne.org/

The "About" for the above website is here - https://historicjamestowne.org/about/ (yes this is run by foundations and the National Park Service)

[Galraedia]

18. Here

The first Africans to arrive in Virginia in 1619 may have been indentured servants. No
laws at the time codified lifetime servitude, and no evidence exists that Africans and African-
Americans faced sharply different treatment from the white indentured servants. In fact, in the
seventeenth century, when the numbers of African-Americans remained small, 2 black and white
laborers usually worked side by side in the fields, ate and socialized together, shared living
quarters, and, in some cases, formed mixed-race families. Whether slave, servant, or free, Afri-
can-Americans in the first half of the seventeenth century enjoyed rights that would later be
denied them.

Source:https://www.history.org/history/teaching/becomingamericans/enslaved/enslaved_guide.pdf

One stormy day in August of 1619 a Dutch manof-war with about 20 Africans on board entered port at the English colony of Jamestown, Virginia. Little is known of these newly arrived people: the first Africans to set foot on the North American continent. At this time the slave trade between Africa and the English colonies had not yet been established, and it is unlikely that the 20 or so newcomers became slaves upon their arrival. They were perhaps considered indentured servants, who worked under contract for a certain period of time (usually seven years) before they were granted freedom and the rights accorded to other settlers. Their historic arrival, however, marked the beginning of an atrocious trend in colonial America, in which the people of Africa were taken unwillingly from their motherland and consigned to lifelong slavery. The robust economic growth of the English colonies was caused largely by this exploitative institution.

Source: https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/africans-arrive-virginia-1619

[BumRushDaShow]

19. I gave you a link and info from the ACTUAL Jamestown historical site's website

So you disagree with Jamestown itself, which is the subject of this "1619" thing?

The Jamestown site is actually providing the LATEST info based on "primary research" - "primary research" meaning using actual documents from the period and retrieving info from the excavations that have been done (and are STILL being done) at the Jamestown site, which is managed under the auspices of the National Park Service.

Right now, if you take a trip as a tourist to Jamestown and go through their tours, you will hear what is listed on their website, NOT what is regurgitated old info that has not been updated by "encyclopedia.com" or "history.org".

Edit to add - here is the text from the "About" page from the Jamestown Historic site's webpage -

mysteries, theories, and archaeological challenges

For two decades, the Jamestown Rediscovery Project has brought to vivid life the stories of early James Fort. As early as 1837, eyewitness accounts claimed that the fort built in 1607 by Captain John Smith and the first English settlers was submerged in the James River. But when Dr. William Kelso visited Jamestown in 1963 as a graduate student at the College of William & Mary in nearby Williamsburg, he was skeptical of that theory. He wondered if the standing 17th-century brick church tower would have been constructed near the center of the original fort, where an earlier church once stood. Under his leadership, the Jamestown Rediscovery Project launched in 1994 and within three archaeological seasons had uncovered enough evidence to prove the remains of James Fort existed on dry land near the church tower. Since then, Jamestown Rediscovery’s mission has evolved into a more challenging undertaking. Today more than a two-dozen staff members excavate, interpret, preserve, conserve, and research the findings from the site.

https://historicjamestowne.org/about/

Again, this is what is called "primary" research to better establish what really happened, not referencing and reciting misinformation from past years.

[Ms. Toad]

14. There are practical and legal distinctions between the two

It isn't saying slavery wasn't that bad, or saying that slavery wasn't slavery. It is saying (correctly) that indentured servitude is not slavery.

Indentured servants (regardless of race) eventually gained their freedom. Slaves were (legally) property forever. Indentured servants were only property until their period of servitude ended - and we're treated more humanely (e.g., slaves could legally be killed; indentured servants could not.)

There are similarities - in that neither is a humane practice. But, ostensibly at least there was some choice in becoming an indentured servant (4-7 years of work, in exchange for passage to the US +food and housing during the period of servitude) and once you put in the time you were free.

[dawg day]

17. From BumRush above-

This sure sounds like "slavery" to me:
The Africans who came to Virginia in 1619 had been taken from Angola in West Central Africa. They were captured in a series of wars that was part of much broader Portuguese hostilities against the Kongo and Ndongo kingdoms, and other states. These captives were then forced to march 100-200 miles to the coast to the major slave-trade port of Luanda. They were put on board the San Juan Bautista, which carried 350 captives bound for Vera Cruz, on the coast of Mexico, in the summer of 1619.

[Adrahil]

16. Whether you agree or not, he is using terms used by many historians.

For example:

http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/

And some white indentured servants did not come voluntarily either. But the key is that indentured servants were not property. They were considered bound to a contract, regardless of how they got here (and yes, black Africans were often taken as slaves in Africa and sold to slavers. But the transition from indentured servant to salve is a significant one.

But if moral outrage is overwhelming academic accuracy, then I do kinda get it. But understand there is a distinction here.

[SoCalDem]

20. When you arrive unwillingly in chains

"indentured" seems a stretch.

Indentured servants were usually people who exchanged passage fees for labor for a pre-arranged time limit

Definition of indentured servant
: a person who signs and is bound by indentures to work for another for a specified time especially in return for payment of travel expenses and maintenance.https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indentured%20servant

[Empowerer]

12. What do indentured servants have to do with Virginia's history of racism

which was the topic. Unless Northam thinks that blackface and the Klan had their origins in indentured servitude, why was he referencing that instead of slavery?

I think it's because he was trying to minimize or normalize the institution of slavery, not an uncommon thing to do in the south.

[Xolodno]

15. We actually have a new form of indentured servitude.

Student Debt.

Not discharged by Bankruptcy.

No income...the debt rises via interest.

Forgiveness option that are not attainable.

Payment options that ignore the local cost of living. Yeah, sure, you make a 100k a year...that's lower middle class in San Francisco.

Don't pay it...kiss your Tax Refunds and Social Security goodbye.

................

Side note, been wondering, would it be better to invest the money you pay on your Student Loan vs. paying down the loan? At some point, that has to be a major factor.